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2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

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2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

I thought it might be useful if we had a thread on which members can, if they wish, say who they will be voting for on 7 May and add some details as to why. There are obvious overlaps between some of the parties; for example, Labour and the Liberal Democrats want to bring in a mansion tax and keep us in the EU, while both the Green Party and the SNP want to scrap Trident. If you’re still not sure which party comes closest to representing your views, you can take a short ‘test’ here:-

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I’ll start the ball rolling. I apologise for re-posting this message, but I do so at the request of one of the original members of this forum:-

Although Ed Miliband did appear on a picket line with Doncaster care workers, I wish that Labour would be more supportive of legitimate strike action, especially by firemen, NHS staff and teachers who have had their conditions of employment and pension arrangements changed arbitrarily. I think the party is still traumatised by the damage done to it – 18 years out of office - by what were largely myths about the so-called ‘winter of discontent’ of 1978-9.

No, Labour doesn’t do many of the things I’d like it to do, but why should it? I’m just one of the ten million plus people it needs to support it if it is to form the next government. A party which has to appeal to 35-40% of the population must be a compromise, a coalition within itself. It needs to resonate with its core vote, but also to those who thought in 2010 that the Lib Dems were left of centre, and to those who have been tempted more recently into thinking that UKIP might somehow represent the working class.

I will vote Labour because, although it won’t rule for the benefit solely of Ivan White, it will abolish the bedroom tax and bring in a mansion tax, it will repeal the Health and Social Care Act and it will end uncertainty over our membership of the EU. I will vote Labour because I dislike everything this Tory-dominated government of ideologues and liars has done, which has included abusing the human rights of the disabled. I will vote Labour because on 8 May either Ed Miliband will become PM or we will have another five years of ‘Dodgy Dave’ and his asset-stripping corporate cronies, and that’s a no-brainer
.”
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Fri May 01, 2015 5:44 pm

Yes Ivan, and those Tory benefit cuts include myself unfortunately, making me nearly a third worse off. It is a good job I help the people now whilst I can, because maybe I will become one of those poor people needing a foodbank in the future if they get back into power, could I really stand that feeling? Sad Sad

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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Redflag on Fri May 01, 2015 5:55 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:
Penderyn wrote:

And did bugger all for us.

The first 'bugger all' he did for us was to rid us of John 'Weedy' Major ( the original 'back-stabber'). Beyond that, he saved us from the subsequent flesh- creeping Tory Leaders - and what would have been their governments - for a good number of years . For those things alone, he will always have my gratitude...

Penderyn You seem to forget the state the UK was in after 18 years of Tory neglect, our NHS had waiting lists of 18 months to have an operation and people were dying waiting for those operations that is when Tony Blair brought in the private health sector so people did not die before they got there operation, then there was the schools that were not fit for purpose that is what Tony Blair did for the UK.   I am no fan of Tony Blair but do believe in credit were credit is due.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Sat May 02, 2015 12:26 pm

Redflag, does that mean that Labour started the private health service? that we are berating the Tories for now? how far would Labour have gone if the Tories had not got in and like Cameron are really selling the NHS OFF?
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Penderyn on Sat May 02, 2015 1:12 pm

Redflag wrote:Penderyn You seem to forget the state the UK was in after 18 years of Tory neglect, our NHS had waiting lists of 18 months to have an operation and people were dying waiting for those operations that is when Tony Blair brought in the private health sector so people did not die before they got there operation, then there was the schools that were not fit for purpose that is what Tony Blair did for the UK.   I am no fan of Tony Blair but do believe in credit were credit is due.

Well, UKIP would probably have done that much.   I don't want non-tories, I want Labour.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by oftenwrong on Sat May 02, 2015 2:12 pm

QUOTE: " I don't want non-tories, I want Labour."

Then perhaps it might be appropriate of everyone to mute the criticism until after they've been elected. In the meantime there is no doubt that the Tories are delighted to take advantage of any muttering in the ranks.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Sat May 02, 2015 2:49 pm

does that mean that Labour started the private health service?
In 1991, when Ken Clarke was the Tory health secretary, he introduced the internal market – essentially competition – into the NHS. In 2000, Labour expanded the ‘private finance initiatives’ (first used by John Major) to build (not run) scores of hospitals through private enterprise. Labour also hired firms to provide some clinical services so that waiting times could be shortened.

In a nutshell, the difference between the parties is that Labour used private companies to supplement NHS provision, while the Tories have used them to replace NHS services.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat May 02, 2015 6:41 pm

Latest News from Lynton Crosby at Conservative Central Office

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" I am pleased to inform electors that the new royal princess has this afternoon endorsed David Cameron..."
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by bobby on Sat May 02, 2015 10:54 pm

What's this Phil, another benefits claimant?
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Redflag on Sun May 03, 2015 9:02 am

Ivan wrote:In 1991, when Ken Clarke was the Tory health secretary, he introduced the internal market – essentially competition – into the NHS. In 2000, Labour expanded the ‘private finance initiatives’ (first used by John Major) to build (not run) scores of hospitals through private enterprise. Labour also hired firms to provide some clinical services so that waiting times could be shortened.

In a nutshell, the difference between the parties is that Labour used private companies to supplement NHS provision, while the Tories have used them to replace NHS services.

IVAN has put it better than I could but every word he has sid is TRUE     What the Tories have not told you is about the 2012 NHS Act bill with a codicil of a 106 (hope I have the number correct Ivan) it forces the NHS to give the private health sector 49% of our NHS, already for every 4 NHS contracts that is tendered for, 3 have went to the private health sector big companies so when the Tories tell you that they have only increased the private sector by 1% they are LYING why would the private health sector be pouring money into the Tory party funds.

After giving the Tory party a donation of £270.000 to party funds the Tories awarded that private health company a contract worth £5 Million to our NHS, you all know the Tories have told us LIE after LIEthat is the reason they do not want the Labour party to get into power because they know the truth will come out about all there underhand deals they have done with the private sector.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Sun May 03, 2015 11:27 am

'The Observer' has cast its vote:-

"Ed Miliband, of the two main leaders with an opportunity to form a government, has a far more sophisticated vision of economic and social justice. He has offered a courageous if still partial reappraisal of contemporary capitalism on the one hand, while pursuing the usual game of making retail offers to voters even as he fights off New Labour’s reputation for risky profligacy and laxity on immigration.

His stand on Murdoch, his promise to freeze energy prices, his interest in small business supported by a state investment bank, his belief in a progressive capitalism that encourages long termism, invests in education and skills and reforms the financial markets is not 'anti-business'. It stands for fair regulation, just taxation, strong redistribution, partnership in the EU and a vital role for a more efficient accountable state.

Labour’s direction of travel under Miliband is clear. Government, local and national, has a vital role in delivering the fair society. Labour does not have all the answers. Far from it. But it is the only party which has correctly identified the task that faces our society. For that reason, it deserves to form the next government
."

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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Sun May 03, 2015 7:02 pm

Steve Coogan tells us who he's voting for, and why:-


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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Sun May 03, 2015 11:19 pm

Delia Smith is voting Labour because she doesn't trust the Tories with the NHS:-

We cannot afford to allow it to fall into the wrong hands. And we cannot afford to see the NHS privatised or run like a supermarket. That would be a recipe for disaster.

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And Delia does know quite a lot about recipes! Laughing
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Mon May 04, 2015 1:37 pm

The full delia message to the voters came to myself also from the Labour party, which is very moving is it not?
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I won't vote....

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon May 04, 2015 8:51 pm

Not very long to go now.

But when is the eleventh hour Big Tory Lie coming? - the one Ivan reminds us will be akin the 'Zinoviev Letter'. Surely Lynton Crosby has at least one more 'bombshell' to drop via the Daily Mail and The Sun to seek to aid the Reptilian Cameron's cause.

By Election Day evening, I shall be watching the results from a hotel in Aberdeen and wondering just how the usual Cutting Edge correspondents will be reacting to the news as it filters in - not least, I shall be hoping there are not too many broken hearts and shattered dreams and that Ms Redflag can feel that her sterling efforts in the cause of sanity have brought forth at least some success.

Perhaps to my shame, I shall not have voted , since I cannot become enthused by any Party on offer- although there are those for whom I have nothing but the deepest contempt and feel frustrated beyond words that those who have had the opportunities to confront this evil coalition have not taken them.

Ah well - maybe next time, eh...?

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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Mon May 04, 2015 9:07 pm

Then Phil all that I can say is please do not complain about politics for the next term of office of whoever is in power, because if you do not use your vote then you have no right.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Redflag on Mon May 04, 2015 9:18 pm

PH it was not just women that where kept out of voting, so if you went onto google the struggle that the normal working man had to be allowed to vote, because years ago it was only the likes of Davy boy and his ilk that where allowed to vote. IMHO you shoould be ashamed of yourself for not voting even if you live in a Tory safe seat, if you remember Stox that used to be on this forum he lives within a safe Tory seat also Scarecrow lives in Sutton Coalfield Andrew Mitchells contituency and when the Tories come to there door they are given sharp shrift because they believe nobody could be a worse gov't for the UK than the Tories.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon May 04, 2015 9:25 pm

While being thoroughly grateful for the foregoing advice, I am not inclined go into a vegetarian restaurant - however comprehensive the menu might be - when what I am really looking for is a steak.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Mon May 04, 2015 9:49 pm

That is the poorest excuse I have ever heard Phil, people died to get you the right to vote. Sad Sad Sad
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon May 04, 2015 9:57 pm

Many also died to allow people freedom of choice - including the right to not vote if they so chose...
























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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Mon May 04, 2015 10:03 pm

How many of those non-voters will complain like hell throughout the next term of office of the next government though? headbang headbang headbang
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon May 04, 2015 10:06 pm

Lots of them, I expect - including about having nothing worth voting for.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by oftenwrong on Mon May 04, 2015 10:41 pm

There were no elections in Spain between 1936 and 1975. Democracy was restored following the death of Dictator Franco, and Spaniards queued around the block for many hours outside Polling Stations to ensure that they were able to record their vote, for the first time ever in the case of many of them.

We don't always appreciate the value of what we have until it is taken away.

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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Mon May 04, 2015 10:47 pm

Exactly OW, if the conservatives became a dictatorship Phil and were in power for thirty years, would you want to vote them out then, after they had done away with free schools and health service?
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by astradt1 on Mon May 04, 2015 11:54 pm

I'm afraid I agree with Phil on this one, but I will be voting, our two sons will not and when asked why their answers that it will not make any difference who ever gets in.

Miliband came over well, until the idea of pledges set in stone........It suddenly felt like he had decided that he didn't want the job of PM anymore....

Locally we have 5 leaflets but no one seems to be bothered to knock and ask.....in fact some of the leaflets were delivered by the postman....Yes I know that we are not in a marginal seat but you'd have thought some of them would make an effort.....
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Mon May 04, 2015 11:59 pm

Even if there’s “nothing worth voting for”, there’s often something worth voting against, and that’s usually the Tories.

I feel sure that any Tories reading this thread will be delighted to learn that someone who clearly loathes and despises them and their evil policies isn’t registering a vote against them, not even, in an imperfect world, being prepared to choose the least worst option. It’s a surprising response from someone who is interested enough in politics to contribute to a forum such as this for years on end; people who don’t vote are usually those who tell you that “they’re all the same”.

There were a million visits to foodbanks last year, more than 25% of our children are living in poverty, Tory plans to raise tuition fees further and to extend the privatisation of the NHS have leaked out, but none of that is motivation to help vote this vile government out of office? Yet by contrast, this forum has a member who has, at her own expense, travelled from Scotland to Eastleigh, Sheffield, Carlisle and Wirral West to do all that she can to help remove Cameron and his corrupt cronies from power. She puts me to shame, since I’ve only delivered leaflets for about four hours, contributed a few small amounts of cash and ‘spread the word’ on Twitter. But at least I will vote.

I live in a rock solid Tory seat, one which hasn’t changed hands since it was created in the 1880s. Labour will come fourth, behind the Tories, the Lib Dems and UKIP. However, I will get to that polling station on Thursday as long as there is breath in my body, especially after hearing Cameron say that he will stay in Downing Street if he wins the most seats and/or votes across the UK, even if he is unable to cobble together a majority. I’m not sure that he could get away with that, but it does mean that every vote could count for something, even my one in a Tory fiefdom.

I’ve been trying to write articles about the Human Rights Act, which is under threat from the Tories, and the myth that the 1970s was such a terrible decade, but when I read shattering news like this I lose the will to bother to finish them. Close elections like this one can be decided by how many of those on the left and the right turn out and vote, and I remember how, when Andrew Neil was editor of ‘The Sunday Times’ he told readers to “hold your nose and vote Tory”. Many people on the right are prepared to do precisely that, but those on the left – and those who just hate the Tories – seem to be more cavalier with their franchise. And that must help to explain why, along with the overwhelming bias of the press and the vast donations made by corporate cronies, the Tories have been in power for 40 of the last 70 years, when their policies are clearly detrimental to the vast majority of ordinary people.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Tue May 05, 2015 12:16 am

'The Independent' has shown that it isn't anything of the sort! Just like the bowl (or wood) in a game of bowls, it's revealed its bias at the last minute and declared that it would like five more years of Cameron and Clegg:-

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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by oftenwrong on Tue May 05, 2015 3:21 am

So The Independent should perhaps now be re-named as
"The Unionist" or somesuch. Fair enough, and encouragingly honest
in contrast to other newspapers who favour a particular course without
actually saying so.

The boldness of this editorial does in my opinion merit the description
"the least worst option" since it assumes the Polls to be accurate in
predicting no overall control. The concept of Parliament as a
rudderless ship cannot be in anyone's interest.

Though possibly the British voter may yet make fools of all the
self-appointed "experts" and do the right thing on Thursday.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Redflag on Tue May 05, 2015 11:50 am

I am with stuart on this one, those that do not vote will not have the right to complain at what gov't we get and how they act whether is another Tory gov't (heaven forbid) but it is now up to the people of UK.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Tue May 05, 2015 2:47 pm

astradt1 wrote:-
I will be voting, our two sons will not and when asked why their answers that it will not make any difference who ever gets in…..Miliband came over well, until the idea of pledges set in stone........
It will make a hell of a difference as to who gets in, I trust you’ve pointed that out to your sons! Bedroom tax or mansion tax? The future of the NHS and the welfare state? Tuition fees up or down? Our place in the EU? The Institute for Fiscal Studies has concluded that the economic choice confronting voters is the starkest since 1992.

The stone monument nonsense was indeed a big mistake, leaving the Labour Party open to ridicule and now misinterpretation. Lucy Powell’s remark that “writing promises in stone is by itself no guarantee that they will be implemented” has caused Grant Shapps to crawl out from under his stone and claim it’s proof that Ed Miliband “has no intention of keeping his promises”. You’d think, with Cameron’s track record, the Tories would keep quiet on that subject.

No one seems to be bothered to knock and ask.....we are not in a marginal seat but you'd have thought some of them would make an effort.
Who exactly do you have in mind as "them"? Political parties don’t appear as if by magic, they need supporters to become members and to become active. If I go to a branch meeting in my rock solid Tory seat, no more than 10-12 people turn up. If the party tries canvassing or leafleting in the town centre, it’s a miracle if more than 4 or 5 turn up. We’ve had to target just one ward where there is an outside chance that Labour might get at least some district councillors elected – for the first time in over 30 years. So no, the rest of the town doesn’t get a knock on the door here. I'm afraid there's no point in complaining if you don’t get a visit, especially in a marginal seat; you have to become active and not leave it to "them".
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by boatlady on Tue May 05, 2015 2:56 pm

On a more encouraging note - coming home through the definitely 'posh' village where we moor our boat, every other house was boldly displaying a Labour poster - not a single Tory one to be seen - presumably those individuals will be doing the right thing on Thursday.
I felt like knocking on all the doors to tell them how much I love them - but boatman talked me out of it - he's not very excited by politics
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Penderyn on Tue May 05, 2015 3:40 pm

boatlady wrote:On a more encouraging note - coming home through the definitely 'posh' village where we moor our boat, every other house was boldly displaying a Labour poster - not a single Tory one to be seen - presumably those individuals will be doing the right thing on Thursday.
I felt like knocking on all the doors to tell them how much I love them - but boatman talked me out of it - he's not very excited by politics

No question but that Labour has won the 'ground war' hands down.    As the man with the megaphone used to say as we went canvassing the Derbyshire countryside, 'Fields vote tory, People vote Labour!'


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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Phil Hornby on Tue May 05, 2015 3:41 pm

" But when is the eleventh hour Big Tory Lie coming? - the one Ivan reminds us will be akin the 'Zinoviev Letter'. Surely Lynton Crosby has at least one more 'bombshell' to drop via the Daily Mail and The Sun to seek to aid the Reptilian Cameron's cause."


I posted the reflection set out above, but folk only alighted upon the issue over which they wanted to admonish me. It's hard to believe that Crosby won't have something spiteful in store in the next 24 hours...
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Tue May 05, 2015 4:05 pm

They may have left it to Richard Littlejohn, with his sick remark that he'd rather trust Jimmy Savile to babysit than trust Labour. And we've also had the twisting of Lucy Powell's comments about that wretched piece of stone. Not serious enough? No, I thought not.

There's still time for Crosby to produce a turd out of his hat. The great success of the Zinoviev letter was that it came too late to be repudiated. So that could mean a 'revelation' tomorrow or even overnight before voting starts, just in time to catch the morning news on Thursday. Desperate Tories, like wounded animals, are very dangerous.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Penderyn on Tue May 05, 2015 4:09 pm

Ivan wrote:Desperate Tories, like wounded animals, are very dangerous.

Nah - the tories are buggered, and are more interested in replacing Cameron with that posturing Turk of theirs.   Why, by the way, are Londoners, who have their own Assembly, allowed MPs who interfere with the lives of the rest of us?
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Phil Hornby on Tue May 05, 2015 4:17 pm

The modern digital era does provide more opportunity for speedy repudiation than was the case back in those far off days, but it still might prove inconvenient.

Additionally, I am inclined to feel that the public is a little more aware of the political 'tricks of the trade' these days , and may be less vulnerable to swallow Crosby-inspired crap. But it's a dirty business...
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Tue May 05, 2015 4:55 pm

Penderyn wrote:-
Why, by the way, are Londoners, who have their own Assembly, allowed MPs who interfere with the lives of the rest of us?
Very valid point. Why are Tory MPs in Surrey allowed to vote on fracking in Cumbria? It just goes on and on. Either we are a union, which sends 650 MPs to a UK-wide parliament at Westminster to make decisions for the whole entity, or we fragment into regions. While the Tories think the Scots should remain in the UK but shouldn't have any say in running it.

Phil Hornby wrote:-
The modern digital era does provide more opportunity for speedy repudiation than was the case back in those far off days
Yes, that’s true, and Grant Shapps’ misrepresentation of Lucy Powell’s remarks have been rebutted already:-

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I am inclined to feel that the public is a little more aware of the political 'tricks of the trade' these days, and may be less vulnerable to swallow Crosby-inspired crap.
There we must disagree. Far, far too many people have accepted that Labour caused the global financial crash, that every Labour government leaves the economy in a mess, that the Tories are the tax-cutting (rather than tax-rearranging) party, and that the majority of benefit claimants are idle scroungers. I’m afraid the intelligence of the average ‘Daily Mail’ or ‘Sun’ reader can easily be overestimated.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by astradt1 on Tue May 05, 2015 5:21 pm

Today at Cameron's set piece speech, in a Twickenham Garden Centre, which it was claimed was in front of 'ordinary voters' who, all bar one, seem to spend their time walking around with 'Vote Tory' signs, just in case they bumped into a Tory candidate!!!! This would have been the FIRST such event during this campaign and it just so happens that the one a fore mentioned 'voter' was on hand to to shout about SNP in leafy Twickenham, giving Dave a chance to remind the 'ordinary voters' with their placards what a danger SNP are...............Does this sound like the script of a film?????

There at this point seems to have been in investigation by the media into the name of this 'Lone Wolf' rogue voter

Just compare this with the handling of the female Labour Candidate who challenged BJ the other day
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Tue May 05, 2015 5:46 pm

oftenwrong. Call me cynical if you like, but I suspect the reason ‘The Independent’ came out in favour of another five years of the Tory and Lib Dem nightmare is because it’s now owned by a Russian non-dom, Alexander Lebedev. Judging from the readers’ comments underneath the article, many are not too impressed with the advice:-

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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Tue May 05, 2015 5:48 pm

I am ignoring your posts from now on Phil, I can do no more as you are not going to vote, had my eyes tested this afternoon and I am going blind in my left eye now, but the optician said as a small business he should vote tory, but he has never voted tory in his life and never has his family, because they remember what it was like at the bottom, so will always vote labour, because of the way the tories treat the people at the bottom.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Redflag on Tue May 05, 2015 5:55 pm

boatlady wrote:On a more encouraging note - coming home through the definitely 'posh' village where we moor our boat, every other house was boldly displaying a Labour poster - not a single Tory one to be seen - presumably those individuals will be doing the right thing on Thursday.
I felt like knocking on all the doors to tell them how much I love them - but boatman talked me out of it - he's not very excited by politics

That is good to hear boatlady, so you will be getting rid of Damian Lewis which I am sure that the people of Great Yarmouth will be well pleased when they have an MP that works for them and not the big corptions and the bankers.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by boatlady on Tue May 05, 2015 6:11 pm

Sadly, my boat lives in Suffolk - Brandon Lewis may still pull it off in Great Yarmouth - still a bit close to call - but his rival Lara Norris is making a very good impression on voters
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