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2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

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2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

I thought it might be useful if we had a thread on which members can, if they wish, say who they will be voting for on 7 May and add some details as to why. There are obvious overlaps between some of the parties; for example, Labour and the Liberal Democrats want to bring in a mansion tax and keep us in the EU, while both the Green Party and the SNP want to scrap Trident. If you’re still not sure which party comes closest to representing your views, you can take a short ‘test’ here:-

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I’ll start the ball rolling. I apologise for re-posting this message, but I do so at the request of one of the original members of this forum:-

Although Ed Miliband did appear on a picket line with Doncaster care workers, I wish that Labour would be more supportive of legitimate strike action, especially by firemen, NHS staff and teachers who have had their conditions of employment and pension arrangements changed arbitrarily. I think the party is still traumatised by the damage done to it – 18 years out of office - by what were largely myths about the so-called ‘winter of discontent’ of 1978-9.

No, Labour doesn’t do many of the things I’d like it to do, but why should it? I’m just one of the ten million plus people it needs to support it if it is to form the next government. A party which has to appeal to 35-40% of the population must be a compromise, a coalition within itself. It needs to resonate with its core vote, but also to those who thought in 2010 that the Lib Dems were left of centre, and to those who have been tempted more recently into thinking that UKIP might somehow represent the working class.

I will vote Labour because, although it won’t rule for the benefit solely of Ivan White, it will abolish the bedroom tax and bring in a mansion tax, it will repeal the Health and Social Care Act and it will end uncertainty over our membership of the EU. I will vote Labour because I dislike everything this Tory-dominated government of ideologues and liars has done, which has included abusing the human rights of the disabled. I will vote Labour because on 8 May either Ed Miliband will become PM or we will have another five years of ‘Dodgy Dave’ and his asset-stripping corporate cronies, and that’s a no-brainer
.”
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:26 pm

Definitely Penderyn,to make sure that they are heard.

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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:37 pm

There may be nothing to vote for — but there's plenty to vote against

Extracts from an article by Laurie Penny:-

"Not so long ago, some of us believed that change could come from within the system. We were wrong. I endorsed the Lib Dems in 2010, a fact that tops the long list of stupid things I did in my early twenties, but the feeling of hope was genuine and so was the pain of betrayal. Now, many people feel that the best way to deal with this depressing situation is not to vote at all. Refusing to vote is an act of passive aggression, which is something the British have a talent for. It’s an unlimited national resource, like former PR men with faces like boiled ham running for Parliament on rafts of brittle promises.

The Tories would prefer you not to vote, especially if you are young or poor or a welfare claimant. They would prefer not to have to count you among the people who matter. I’ve watched the Tories trash the welfare state, tear up the social contract and send in the riot squads to round up and beat down any person who dared to voice their dissent. I’ve watched the Lib Dems roll over and let them do it. I’ve watched Labour trade away a century of goodwill by failing to provide any alternative to austerity. I’ve watched UKIP fear-monger its way to a platform.

We made the mistake of thinking they were all the same in 2010, that the Tories could not possibly be worse than New Labour. We were wrong. The question now is whether we want the next five years to be disastrous or merely depressing. Right now, there may not be much to vote for but there’s plenty to vote against. Vote against bigotry, hatred and fear. Choose your enemy and choose wisely
."

For the whole article:-
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:23 pm

The quote Ivan, when you choose your enemy choose them wisely, who actually said that in the first instance do you know?
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by boatlady on Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:33 pm

Think it was some old Roman general
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:39 pm

" I’ve watched Labour trade away a century of goodwill by failing to provide any alternative to austerity."

She might have added that they didn't oppose what they could have opposed very effectively, or articulate it with sufficient coherence...
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:00 pm

Oh dear Phil, any particular labour leader in mind? or all of them?
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:01 pm

PMQs has not been used effectively, in my opinion, to broadcast some simple facts about - for example -many poor souls who have been sanctioned for benefit claim-related 'crimes'. Instead of using questions to spout some clever-dick insults of Cameron. Miliband could have - quietly but incisively highlighted cases and issues which would have resonated deeply with the ordinary man. It occurs on here, so why waste a national weekly platform which is gifted to him?

Additionally, as Alan Johnson has said, Labour has not made sufficient headway in attacking the much-trumpeted myth about the deficit and Labour's alleged part in its occurrence.

It is for reasons like these that Labour are struggling to contemplate an election victory - and I still don't believe that they will get one. In all honesty, it may not be a bad election to lose anyway and , while I feel sorry for the people who will suffer again in the next 5 years of Tory poison, I do ask myself on a purely personal level why I should worry unduly if Miliband has not seen fit to take the multitude of chances which he has had -and there must be many thousands like me who will be immune to the effects of that inaction and misjudgement...
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:24 pm

Then you are a very lucky man Phil,that if the tories get back in power it would not bother you unduly, and I sincerely hope it stays that way for you if they do.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:36 pm

I never cease to recognize how lucky I am - that is what makes me so frustrated that Labour has jeopardised those who are not so fortunate...
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:58 pm

It must do Phil, for a fair minded person like yourself.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:14 pm


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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by sickchip on Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:38 pm

I will vote Labour on the simple basis that it is, sadly, the only realistic way to oust the tories.

I have little faith in Labour doing much good, but believe they aren't as bad as the tories. I would vote Green but it would be a wasted and smug vote and thus would do nothing to help those at the bottom whom the tories are sadistically bullying, and punishing.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:24 pm

I believe that Labour will do good actually,but you are right on two points IMO in your post, voting Green would be a wasted vote, and would not do anything to stop the Tories bullying and punishing the people at the bottom of which they have no concern for whatsoever.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by boatlady on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:47 pm

Sickchip - so glad to hear you will be voting Labour - we will just have to make sure once they're in that they listen to the electorate - political activism can't stop with the election - we all need to be attending Labour party constituency meetings and harassing our MPs
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Redflag on Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:31 pm

Sickchip I would ask you to hold judgement until Labour have had the chance to prove themselves or prove you right which IMHO will not happen (sorry) but by this time next year the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by bobby on Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:38 pm

Red, The problem could be winning the election as that needs to be done before he can prove anything.
He is I must admit, coming over very well but it seems to be doing very little if any difference in the polls. He really needed to do much more in the 5 years in opposition, when offered loads of open goals from Herr Cameron, Gideon Osborn and Their mate Iain Dumkopf Schmidt. I think it could be a matter of Too little too late.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Phil Hornby on Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:11 pm

My sentiments exactly, Bobby!
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:49 pm

I think that it is going to be extremely close next week Phil and bobby, probably an hairsbreadth between the two main protagonists.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Redflag on Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:33 pm

I think you could be right on this stuart, I only hope that Ed has the most seats in the HOC then he will get the chance to form the next gov't if Davy boy has more seats believe me he will not walk away he will use the DUP & Lib-Dems so he can stay and finish what he started privatization of the NHS and the end of the Welfare services.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:00 pm

Just studied the polls and voting Redflag, hated to predict it but it is the only result that I could come up with,just hope and pray that the Tories really do not get the majority for our NHS.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:02 pm

This thread has gone off topic:-

2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

This is meant to be a thread on which members can, if they wish, say who they will be voting for on 7 May and add some details as to why.

If you want to make predictions about the result, this is the place, please:-

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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by sickchip on Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:06 pm

Redflag, and others: I really hope my pessimism about Labour will be proved wrong and that they have the courage to make the radical changes that are essential if we want a better balanced society. So, I will vote Labour and give them that opportunity.

Boatlady is correct about the need to continue being politically active - even if Labour hold power..........we must continue applying pressure by attending meetings, writing letters to our mps etc.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:56 pm

'The New Statesman' tells us who it's supporting in this election, and why:-

"The programme put forward by Labour in this election is one that is worthy of support. Inequality, the root of so many of the our maladies, would be tackled through a more redistributive tax system, an increase in the National Minimum Wage to £8 and employee representation on company remuneration committees. A more productive and balanced economy would be built through the establishment of a national investment bank, the transformation of vocational education and the devolution of £30bn to city and county regions. The housing crisis would be urgently addressed through the construction of 200,000 homes a year by 2020. The deficit would be cut pragmatically,  rather than with ideological haste.

The most egregious measures imposed by the coalition, such as the bedroom tax and the Health and Social Care Act, would be repealed. The unelected House of Lords, an embarrassment in a modern democracy, would be replaced with an elected senate of the nations and the regions. And the UK’s EU membership would be safeguarded through the avoidance of an unnecessary referendum, though reform of the EU is necessary. Even those who feel little enthusiasm for this programme ought to consider voting Labour if they wish to evict the Conservatives from office
."

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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by boatlady on Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:21 am

Just about covers I- Labour are not perfect and don't promise everything we would all like, but do promise, and will deliver enough to make a start on genuine reform - unlike any of the others

Vote Labour #HellYesEd
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Redflag on Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:43 am

I whole heartily agree with you boatlady, plus I am awaiting by post my #HellYes tee-shirt so I can wear it while watching the results show next Thursday into the wee hours.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:06 pm

Our Ed won some of the younger voters over yesterday did he not by his appearance on you tube, which the other leaders had refused to go on.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Penderyn on Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:05 pm

boatlady wrote:Just about covers I- Labour are not perfect and don't promise everything we would all like, but do promise, and will deliver enough to make a start on genuine reform - unlike any of the others

Vote Labour #HellYesEd

The question is, without democracy, what pressure can you put on the careerists once they are in? Full capitalism offers them good money, as with Blair.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Phil Hornby on Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:24 pm

You mean that Blair who won three successive elections for Labour and saw off a number of Tory leaders...?
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Penderyn on Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:45 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:You mean that Blair who won three successive elections for Labour and saw off a number of Tory leaders...?

And did bugger all for us.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:56 pm

no answer Penderyn.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by bobby on Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:33 pm

Who is us?
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Phil Hornby on Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:34 pm

Penderyn wrote:
Phil Hornby wrote:You mean that Blair who won three successive elections for Labour and saw off a number of Tory leaders...?

And did bugger all for us.

The first 'bugger all' he did for us was to rid us of John 'Weedy' Major ( the original 'back-stabber'). Beyond that, he saved us from the subsequent flesh- creeping Tory Leaders - and what would have been their governments - for a good number of years . For those things alone, he will always have my gratitude...
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by bobby on Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:40 pm

My sentiments exactly, phil Wink
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:04 pm

Any Labour leader that keeps the tories out, are worth cutting edges vote are they not?
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:54 pm

Polls are of limited value as a predictor of parliamentary seats, because those are not allocated on a national percentage basis, but on the local vote. An individual poll may show e.g. a Tory percentage gain over Labour, but if the gains were all in seats they already held then nothing has changed.

A similar argument applies to the votes of individual posters to threads such as this one, unless they happen to live in a "marginal constituency" such as North Warwick which was decided by 54 votes in 2010. I can vote for anyone on the ballot paper next Thursday without having the slightest impact on the result, because where I live there has only ever been a Tory returned to Parliament.

But I'll be voting "Warts and all" Labour, because the alternatives are all worse. So my conscience will be clear.



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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by bobby on Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:13 pm

Like yourself Terry, I will vote Labour despite the fact that Jonathan Lord (Conservative) holds around 95% of the electorate. He is the slimiest most arrogant lump of shit imaginable , the problem is, most of my neighbours are of the same ilk
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Redflag on Fri May 01, 2015 12:46 pm

I will be voting Labour brcause... I believe in Ed Miliband & the Labour party and more so in Ed Miliband who I believe will be one of the Labour party finest Labour MP. How about the rest of you what do you think.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Penderyn on Fri May 01, 2015 1:16 pm

Redflag wrote:I will be voting Labour brcause... I believe in Ed Miliband & the Labour party and more so in Ed Miliband who I believe will be one of the Labour party finest Labour MP.    How about the rest of you what do you think.

I think it depends very much on where you live, and on whether you are a socialist. Many of the Labour MPs are only not in the tory party by, so to speak, accident: they share the same views. The question is whether you risk letting in real tories.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Fri May 01, 2015 1:32 pm

Penderyn, you just stated that the labour MPs are not in the tory party by accident? you do not have a labour tory Penderyn I assure you.
true blues are true blues end of story.
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by Ivan on Fri May 01, 2015 4:49 pm

'The Guardian' (which endorsed the Lib Dems in 2010) has cast its vote:-

"David Cameron has been an increasingly weak prime minister. On issues such as Europe, the integrity of the UK, climate change, human rights and the spread of the low-wage economy, he has been content to lead the Tories back towards their nastiest and most Thatcherite comfort zones. All this is particularly disappointing after the promise of change that Mr Cameron once embodied.

Mr Miliband has grown in this campaign. He may not have stardust or TV-ready charisma, but those are qualities that can be overvalued. He has resilience and, above all, a strong sense of what is just. Mr Miliband understood early one of the central questions of the age: inequality. Labour will at least strive to slow and even reverse the three-decade march towards an obscenely unequal society. It is Labour that speaks with more urgency than its rivals on social justice, standing up to predatory capitalism, on investment for growth, on reforming and strengthening the public realm, Britain’s place in Europe and international development.

While Labour would repeal the bedroom tax, the Tories are set on those £12bn of cuts to social security. Even if they don’t affect you, they will affect your disabled neighbour, reliant on a vital service that suddenly gets slashed, or the woman down the street, already working an exhausting double shift and still not able to feed her children without the help of benefits that are about to be squeezed yet further. For those people, and for many others, a Labour government can make a very big difference
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Re: 2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

Post by stuart torr on Fri May 01, 2015 5:44 pm

Yes Ivan, and those Tory benefit cuts include myself unfortunately, making me nearly a third worse off. It is a good job I help the people now whilst I can, because maybe I will become one of those poor people needing a foodbank in the future if they get back into power, could I really stand that feeling? Sad Sad
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