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Food for thought

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Food for thought

Post by polyglide on Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

I trust everyone reading this will take it as an unbiased reflection of the present situation and possible implications regarding faith.

There is much concern at the present time regarding young girls leaving home and joining the fighting in the belief that their faith demands it.

These are Muslim girls and one wonders why they would leave a so called better society to join in the fighting.


It should not be a secret what the parents of these girls teach their children as right from wrong, based on ther Koran.

These girls see day after day the way in which the vast majority of the youth of today behaves, along with the television and newspapers showing a long list of activities alien to the girls belief.

MP's lying, thieving and charged with the worst possible crimes of child abuse, 480 judges charged with crimes, parents killing their children, wives being beaten up, youths falling about and full of drugs etc;

This surely gives those Muslim's intent on brainwashing these poor girls to go to war, all the ammunition they need.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:02 pm

by polyglide on Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:18 pm
Dr, Sheldon,
Then you think drugs, drunkeness, rape, child abuse, foul speech, immodest dress, fighting in the streets, murder etc; etc; constitute, decent, ,moral, and free living etc;

You have a very different outlook on life than I.


Apologise and retract this obnoxious lie, or argue on with your apologetics for recruitment of religious terrorism alone.

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Re: Food for thought

Post by Ivan on Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:39 pm

Now here's some food for thought.....  scratch


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COVyK8HUkAAVdxm.jpg
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Re: Food for thought

Post by polyglide on Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:27 pm

Ivan,
One can accept evolution regarding things evolving due to changed circumstances and at the same time, if believing in God, also understand that Satan is responsible for world affairs including those mentioned above.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:16 pm

polyglide wrote:Ivan,
     One can accept evolution regarding things evolving due to changed circumstances and at the same time, if believing in God, also understand that Satan is responsible for world affairs including those mentioned above.

What you accept is irrelevant, species evolution is one of sciences most well evidenced facts. As Ivan's post shows if you deny it you'd have to accept that your god is constantly creating new viruses and bacteria to inflict on us. Even if you make claims about these absurd Satanic fantasies this would still have to be an omnippotent deities choice as it could easily stop it if it was omnipotent.

I see true to form you won't acknowledge your obnoxious lie about me, let alone retract it or apologise.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:46 am

For the record:

Does anyone other than Polyglide worry that decent law abiding people taking a drink, or women dressing as they choose, or people kissing in public, or consenting adults having sex at their own discretion, or any of the above being portrayed on TV, annoys religious fascists or terrorists like IS?
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Re: Food for thought

Post by polyglide on Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:52 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I think many people would agree.

God does not create viruses or any of the illnesses, man's actions in and not adhereing to God's advice is the cause.

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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:00 pm

I never said God created anything. It would be a bizarre claim for an atheist. However if you deny the scientific fact of evolution in favour of an omnipotent creator, then you cannot claim it is benevolent as it has the choice. This nonsense of claiming disease is our fault is of course absurd as it has no evidence whatsoever to support it, though I suspect this is intentional as these kind of delusions are specifically designed to be impossible to disprove or evidence either way. 

I still see no apology for your obnoxious lie.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by polyglide on Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:11 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I do not lie, I have a very soundly based difference of opinion.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:52 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                I do not lie, I have a very soundly based difference of opinion.

Yes you do, all the time, and here is the latest appalling lie you made about me in this thread:

Polyglide wrote:by polyglide on Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:18 pm
Dr, Sheldon,
Then you think drugs, drunkeness, rape, child abuse, foul speech, immodest dress, fighting in the streets, murder etc; etc; constitute, decent, ,moral, and free living etc;

You have a very different outlook on life than I.

Care to show a post where I have made any such claim? It was an obnoxious lie you made up about me, and you have neither the integrity to admit it, or apologise, for shame. What makes this lie even more appalling is that you are the one who has repeatedly conflated those heinous crimes with perfectly decent moral law abiding actions, not me. Yet chose to lie and claim I thought the heinous crimes represented decent moral and legal behaviour, when I've said no such thing, nor ever even implied it.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by polyglide on Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:05 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
You have done more than your fair share of personal comments and should expect the same, however, this is not in any way a personal matter, I have explained very clearly that if you think there is nothing wrong with much that is happening in our society then you must agree with it, I have nothing against people who behave in an approprite manner, however, if I wanted to radicalise a young person who had been brought up to believe certain things were wrong, then I could find numerous examples in the behaviour of many people in our present society.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:16 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                You have done more than your fair share of personal comments and should expect the same,

So you admit your claim was an appalling obnoxious lie then. Then you should be ashamed and apologise for it.

Polyglide wrote:You have done more than your fair share of personal comments and should expect the same,

No I haven't, grow up, you have insulted almost every poster who has tried to discuss any topic with you.

Polyglide wrote: I have explained very clearly that if you think there is nothing wrong with much that is happening in our society then you must agree with it,


Another obnoxious lie, I have NEVER made any such claim. You really do have no shame. You are the one who has continually conflated decent moral legal behaviours with heinous crimes here, not me, and I have gone out of my way not to point this out or take cheap shots, but you lack the intellect to see this as much as you lack the integrity to reciprocate and discuss this in an adult fashion.

Polyglide wrote:I have nothing against people who behave in an approprite manner,

Then why keep raising such behaviours in this thread alongside the worst kind of crimes?

Polyglide wrote:however, if I wanted to radicalise a young person who had been brought up to believe certain things were wrong, then I could find numerous examples in the behaviour of many people in our present society.

So what? I couldn't give a toss what hateful bigoted religious fascists think about decent people living their lives, and since our society criminalises those other behaviours citing them is equally absurd. I have asked you repeatedly what your point is, and what you think should be done, but you don't seem to have an answer to either question, so what is the point of this thread? We can't do more than make immoral behaviours a crime, we can't do more than punish those who commit such crimes, the behaviours you have a problem with that are entirely legal need no comment as again we don't live our lives at the behest of religious fascists, nor should we.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by polyglide on Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:12 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
As usual you miss the point.

It does not matter if what others think and can use as potential ammunition is legal or not, what matters is does it give ammunition?.

I do not seperate lawful and unlawful in this matter just the fact that does the behaviour of our members of society give rise to concern to other faiths and does this give those intent on radicalising as many young people as possible a means of doing so.

It is realy of no consequence what you think it is what those concerned think.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:33 pm

Polyglide wrote:It is realy of no consequence what you think it is what those concerned think.
 Can we have that in English please? Preferably with really spelled correctly for once. 

What is your point? 
What are you suggesting be done?
What is the point of this thread? 

Apologise for your obnoxious lie. 

What kind of moral outlook doesn't differentiate between crimes like paedophilia,  and perfectly decent moral law abiding behaviours? That's a repulsive claim.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by polyglide on Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:12 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
There is a big difference between not seperating matters regarding the use for radicalisation that are henious crimes and others that are accepted by law towards a matter of wether either or both contribute towards giving ammunition to the radicals and not believing there is a vast difference beween the two.

All crimes are against my religion and many activities not counted as crimes our society could do without, that is not the point, the Question is ARE WE GIVING AMMUNITION. I feel we are, I asked for comments.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:21 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                There is a big difference between not seperating matters regarding the use for radicalisation that are henious crimes and others that are accepted by law towards a matter of wether either or both contribute towards giving ammunition to the radicals and not believing there is a vast difference beween the two.

Have you translated that with Babel fish? It's complete garbage. The execrable spelling aside it's indecipherable nonsense. Since you have ignored my post I'll repost it:

What is your point?
What are you suggesting be done?
What is the point of this thread?

Apologise for your obnoxious lie.

What kind of moral outlook doesn't differentiate between crimes like paedophilia,  and perfectly decent moral law abiding behaviours? That's a repulsive claim.

Polyglide wrote:All crimes are against my religion


This hasn't stopped your religion advocating slavery, rapine, genocide, infanticide, homophobic bigotry, misogyny, and many more atrocities, or your God committing many of the same, or you repulsively claiming such behaviours are justifiable if God does them in other threads. You'll forgive me if I choose not to defer to your idea of what represents moral rectitude, as judging from your posts and behaviour on here I don't think you're a very nice person. The veneer of pious self righteousness has scraped off too easily and too often I'm afraid, and showed what's underneath is deeply unpleasant. In the thread on homophobia you didn't paint yourself in a very good light for a start. As one obvious example of your hypocrisy here, you thought the Christian couple who broke the law by refusing a gay couple admittance into their B&B based on bigotry and homophobic prejudice was ok, you spent pages trying to justify them breaking that particular law. So it seems it's only crimes you dislike are against your religion, not exactly a shining example of moral rectitude.  


Polyglide wrote:many activities not counted as crimes our society could do without,

I have news for you, we all knew from the start of this thread that this wasn't about ISIS, or Islamic terrorism, but about decent people going about their moral law abiding lives in a way that bunches your panties. So far you don't seem to like the idea that women have autonomy to dress as they please, or that people can take a drink when they want, or that consenting adults can have sex when they please and with whom they please, or that people can kiss in public or on the telly, especially same sex couples. Care to add any to the list?

Polyglide wrote:that is not the point, the Question is ARE WE GIVING AMMUNITION. I feel we are, I asked for comments.

The problem is you are not interested in any one's comments unless they agree with you, and sane rational people won't because the claim is absurdly stupid.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by polyglide on Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:54 pm

Dr, Shedlon,
So stupid that the Government is taking great measures to prevent it.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:52 am

What's so stupid? What government is taking what measures? To prevent what?  Cogent as ever.

I ask again since you keep ignoring it...

What is your point? 
What are you suggesting be done?
What is the point of this thread?
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:25 pm

What's so stupid? What government is taking what "great measures" to prevent what? Your post is as cogent as ever.

Obviously the UK government is trying to stop religious fascists and indoctrination of the same, this does not in any way mean they're out to curb decent law abiding people's freedoms as you seem to be implying.

I ask again since you keep ignoring it...

What is your point?
What are you suggesting be done?
What is the point of this thread? I'll spell it out again, as you seem intent on being evasive and avoiding answering questions in favour of preaching your own beliefs.

1. Should women have complete autonomy to dress as they please, the same right that men have?
2. Should adults be allowed to take a drink as and when they please, within the existing UK laws?
3. Should open displays of affection be outlawed if they offend religious fascists like IS?
4. Should we deny rights to minorities because their sexual orientation offends religious fascists like IS?
5. Should television and the media be censored to avoid offending religious fascists like IS?
6. Should religious fascists attempts to force others to conform to their draconian and puritanical views be resisted?

If you answered NO to any of these then why have you cited them as "providing ammunition" for religious fascists to indoctrinate new religious fascists, even conflating them with appalling criminal behaviour like paedophilia? After all children and women have far less rights in Islamic religious theocracies, so such crimes are far more prevalent there, than in the UK. So it's idiotic to suggest the existence of such crimes in the UK is a catalyst for indoctrination into IS whose area of influence is far less likely to criminalise such behaviours.

Unsurprisingly you want to ignore all these facts, and post pithy, lame, one liners that have no real relevance to your own claims.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by polyglide on Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:06 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
The Government is spending large amounts of money and time in attempting top stop the radification of our young people.
or are you so dim as to not realise the fact.

You confuse the reverlance of the differences between
the beliefs of different religions with what you feel right and acceptable and are unable to see that this is totally irrelevant to the issue in question. to what can be use for and against differing religions.

The six issues you raise are not those which I or you feel acceptable but what those being radicalised think.

The countries you refer to have very few crimes compared to the so called civilised countries.

In my country if there is not a case of murder, child abuse, arson, breaking and entering, mugging young and old people, drunken yobs out of their heads on illegal drugs and engaging in all kinds of discrimination etc; etc ; every day then it is a suprise. So just forget your attempts at making out homosexuals, or girls in short skirts along with people having a drink are the problems.

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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:02 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                The Government is spending large amounts of money and time in attempting top stop the radification of our young people. or are you so dim as to not realise the fact.

How dim are we talking here? Dim enough to claim I don't know this when I wrote I did know this in the second sentence of my post post you're responding to? That dim? Or dim enough to think radification (sic) is a word? You really can't help yourself can you? This would be another own goal if we all didn't already have a very good idea of the limited reading ability you clearly possess. Here's the quote of my claim anyway, perhaps you can get someone to read it aloud to you, to save you embarrassing yourself further. Though somehow I seriously doubt it will help.
by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:25 pm
Obviously the UK government is trying to stop religious fascists and indoctrination of the same, this does not in any way mean they're out to curb decent law abiding people's freedoms as you seem to be implying.


Polyglide wrote:The countries you refer to have very few crimes compared to the so called civilised countries.
Are you seriously claiming women and children's rights are better protected under ISIS, or in Islamic theocracies? Surely even a religious loony tune of your obvious accomplishments is not that deluded? You do know that Sharia (Islamic) law requires a women who is raped to produce multiple male witnesses to the crime or she will herself be condemned of adultery, I mean does that sound like a society that is likely to have less sex crimes to you, you fruit cake? Or where women are reduced to nothing more than chattel of husbands, fathers, and brothers, so in your lunatic mind that would make child abuse less likely? Wow...

Polyglide wrote:So just forget your attempts at making out homosexuals, or girls in short skirts along with people having a drink are the problems.
I never attempted to claim this, you have, repeatedly. You claimed they lent ammunition to religious fascists to radicalise other religious fascists, all I did was ask what you think should be done about it, so far you've been unable or unwilling to answer, why is that? I'll ask again since you won't say what your point is beyond repeating your asinine claim in the first post:

1. Should women have complete autonomy to dress as they please, the same right that men have?
2. Should adults be allowed to take a drink as and when they please, within the existing UK laws?
3. Should open displays of affection be outlawed if they offend religious fascists like IS?
4. Should we deny rights to minorities because their sexual orientation offends religious fascists like IS?
5. Should television and the media be censored to avoid offending religious fascists like IS?
6. Should religious fascists attempts to force others to conform to their draconian and puritanical views be resisted?

You claimed it so why are you now shying away from answering? Is it because you know they were lies that you conflated with crimes to dishonestly suggest you were only protesting about criminality and immorality? Is that why you now cite more crimes, still seemingly unable to grasp that our society punishes one such set of behaviours because they are immoral, whilst it allows the others because they are not? We're all aware of your puritanical objections here, and you're fooling no one.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:27 pm

Norm Deplume wrote:
stuart torr wrote:
I know a couple of times a week Sheldon, I suddenly go rigid, then my arms and legs start getting thrashed about, before occasionally I get thrown out of bed. It has been observed by doctors at my hospital, and 3 other hospitals, but it is known as Epilepsy, for which I take so much medication I rattle when I walk.

Wasn't MBen of the opinion that it was actually demonic possession just like wot it says in the Bible?

Interesting series recently aired on tv, on the Christian church's mass murder of 'witches' that spanned several centuries throughout Europe. There is a great deal of evidence in the records kept to indicate that many of those denounced, then tortured and murdered as witches were in reality mentally ill or suffering unknown medical conditions at the time like epilepsy, or even autism or aspergers. This of course is the kind of society Polyglide has repeatedly claimed on here to aspire to, one where ignorance is revered, and science and the pursuit of knowledge forbidden. Scary stuff, and remarkably similar to the kind of Islamic caliphate IS are attempting to force on anyone they can.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:37 pm

by polyglide Yesterday at 4:06 pm
Dr, Sheldon,  The countries you refer to have very few crimes compared to the so called civilised countries.

Another made up lie, care to try and evidence that ridiculous claim? I'm guessing not, and you'll just bluster that your lie is somehow self evident. Sharia law itself is a crime against human rights, and is openly misogynistic and homophobic, perhaps this is why you're defending it? Your own views seem to contain similar prejudices against gay people, and women having autonomy to choose how they dress, or if they take a drink when they please.

Let's a take a look at one of these "crime free utopian examples of just societies" you're championing.

"An Islamic court in Nigeria yesterday upheld a sentence of death by stoning for a woman accused of adultery."

"Amina Lawal, 30, has been sentenced to death by stoning - a fate which would involve being buried up to her neck in sand and have rocks thrown at her head. However, the Islamic court has ruled that the penalty cannot be carried out until Lawal has finished breastfeeding her baby daughter, Wasila, which the judge said would not be before January 2004."

"The supreme court is likely to step in, particularly as many sharia trials fall short of the expected standards of proof."

Last year, a teenage single mother was given 100 lashes for adultery, even though she argued she was raped by three men. The court said Bariya Ibrahim Magazu could not prove that the men forced her to have sex.

" In Bauchi, Adama Unusua, who is 19 and pregnant, was recently sentenced to 100 lashes for having sex with her fiance."

Yes I'm sure you're right and these countries are an effulgent example of just utopias that no sane person wouldn't want to live in. Or your talking through your ringpiece, again.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:54 pm

Life under Isis: Captured teenage girl tells story of horrendous abuse at hands of Islamic State militants

"A Yazidi girl captured by Isis has revealed the extreme abuse she suffers as a sex slave at the hands of Islamic State (IS) extremists.

Only 17 years old, Mayat, (not her real name) was kidnapped by members of Isis on 3rd August during an offensive against Sinjar. She remains with her captors.

These men allowed Mayat, who speaks some English as she wanted to study in Europe, to talk because, “to hurt us even more, they told us to describe in detail to our parents what they are doing.”

LINK

Iraq: ISIS Escapees Describe Systematic Rape

"The extremist group Islamic State (also known as ISIS) has carried out systematic rape and other sexual violence against Yezidi women and girls in northern Iraq. Human Rights Watch conducted research in the town of Dohuk in January and February 2015, including interviewing 20 women and girls who escaped from ISIS, and reviewing ISIS statements about the subject.

Human Rights Watch documented a system of organized rape and sexual assault, sexual slavery, and forced marriage by ISIS forces. Such acts are war crimes and may be crimes against humanity. Many of the women and girls remain missing, but the survivors now in Iraqi Kurdistan need psychosocial support and other assistance."

LINK

This doesn't sound like the crime free utopia you're describing. Nor does it sound rational for you to keep suggesting that UK crime is ammunition for indoctrinating religious fascists and terrorists given they are vile criminals themselves.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:54 pm

The Raj invested a lot of time and effort in trying to suppress native objection to British Rule in India, but eventually yielded to the pressures and granted independence.

Though, as professional investors say, the past is not necessarily a guide to the future.

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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:55 pm

Sorry OW I'm not sure I fully see the connection. Imperialism has left us with a mess in many parts of the world that's for sure. However my own opinion, for what it's worth, is that past injustices by people long dead are no justification for present grievances. Though this may not have been your point, I apologise if I'm off the mark here.

Getting back on topic, I'm always astonished when people try to claim that religious theocracies that have strict sharia law, and as a result an appalling record on human rights, have less crime that western democracies. I don't for one moment have any illusions about the faults and shortcomings of our society and governments in the west, but to claim that there is less crime under ISIS or in Saudi Arabia even, is simply absurd, and is ignoring that women and girls have virtually no rights at all under such regimes.

I'm currently reading "Infidel: The Story of My Enlightenment" by
Ayaan Hirsi Ali

As a Somali woman and a Muslim it is a book people who make such claims really ought to read. It's like looking back into the dark ages, with women treated as little more chattel.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:29 pm

"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

Women's Rights are still being argued in our own Western society, which is still far from having gender equality. In British Law discrimination is illegal, but females still earn less than males in comparable jobs.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:34 pm

oftenwrong wrote:"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

Women's Rights are still being argued in our own Western society, which is still far from having gender equality.  In British Law discrimination is illegal, but females still earn less than males in comparable jobs.

I already acknowledged this point about our own shortcomings (quote below), but don't agree with your comparison of glass houses as this seems an unrealistic comparison on women's rights, it's fairly obvious that Islamic theocracies are not comparable in this area, and in many such countries women and girls have no rights at all. Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book painted a fairly bleak picture of her homeland of Somalia, and of Saudi Arabia in this context. Should we really not criticise the appalling lack of women's rights just because our own societies in the west still have further to go and much to do before women have equality?

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Yesterday at 9:55 pm
I don't for one moment have any illusions about the faults and shortcomings of our society and governments in the west,
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Re: Food for thought

Post by boatlady on Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:21 pm

I wonder if the point here is that it's maybe not Islam to blame for all the excesses we hear about so much as male hegemony, or imperialism.

Islam is used as the excuse for the abuse of women and girls and unbelievers, as once Christianity was - the reality is that these actions have nothing to d with religion or ethical thought and everything to do with the abuse of power
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:45 pm

Much of it is cultural, but if Islam isn't out to stop it, hasn't resisted it, spoken out against it, and the Koran contains passages that justify such behaviours, how blameless can it be?  I often hear Christian apologists champion the idea that Christianity led the abolitionist movement. Almost as if they haven't read the parts of the Bible that were used by Christians to justify slavery, or don't realise that in a society that is almost entirely Christian you'd expect even a minority movement to contain Christians. Let's put this another way, if Islam wants to convince me it opposes misogyny and sexual discrimination, and wants to champion women's rights, it has a way to go but it'd not be that difficult to convince me. So far I see little to convince that Islam as a religion wants to change, let alone is interested in promoting equal rights for women.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by boatlady on Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:53 am

There's little evidence , world-wide, that Christianity is a religion wants to change, let alone is interested in promoting equal rights for women.

Organised religion, throughout many years, has been used as a tool for the exercise of power - not sure Islam is any worse than the others - just currently getting the negative press.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:22 am

If you mean it's not currently worse than any of the others have been historically then I'd agree. Though I'd add the caveat that cultural and economic factors are fuelling misogyny and suppressing the rights of women as well. Of course the fact that many modern theists ignore parts of their religious tomes and traditional dogma doesn't properly address why it's in there in the first place if it's truly a message from a benevolent and just, omnipotent deity. 

It's pretty much what you'd expect though if it's origins were entirely human from an epoch where such behaviours and attitudes were the norm. 

It's also worth making the point that there is a marked difference between criticising a religion and it's doctrines, and making a blanket criticism of all its adherents as if they' all have the same attitude. Muslims are an easy mark in the current climate. So when I criticise Islam you can take it as read I'm not criticising those Muslims who don't indulge that particular piece of doctrine or dogma themselves.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:37 pm

Picking up on religions unwillingness to change, it always strikes me as begging the questions 

1. Why isn't it already perfect?
2 Why does it need to change?

If it's truly based on a message from an omniscient omnipotent deity then it's perfectly reasonable to expect it's laws and moral doctrines to be perfect in the first place. This is salient to the thread as well, as it shouldn't be religious terrorists using violence to impose unjust and immoral rules to curb the rights and behaviours of decent moral people. As has been suggested is happening in this thread, by questioning the way women choose to dress, or what sexual practices consenting adults indulge and with whom, or whether adults take a drink when they please within existing UK law.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by polyglide on Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:05 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
Once again you miss the point regarding the ampount of crime.

There is very little crime in the countries you mention because of the henious examples of the punishments one receives for doing so.

The reason we have crime every day that includes old men being battered and young children abused is because we have no deterant, only firsty class hotel accomodation for those found guilty.

You go on about people doing what they like so long as it is lawful, I am talking about those that do not and who give a very dim view of the so called civilised world and which anyone can use as a means of pointing out the lack of respect for themselves and society as a whole.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:26 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                Once again you miss the point regarding the ampount of crime.

No I don't, I quite specifically understand your made up point, here it is again:

Polyglide wrote: There is very little crime in the countries you mention because of the henious examples of the punishments one receives for doing so..

This is rubbish, you have simply made up a claim and offer no evidence. What's more there is mountains of research that shows harsher sentences and capital punishment in particular offer no deterrent to crime and criminals. What's more you have ignored my posts and questions as you always do and simply repeated your made up claim.

Polyglide wrote:The reason we have crime every day that includes old men being battered and young children abused is because we have no deterant, only firsty class hotel accomodation for those found guilty.

This is again complete nonsense of course, but it's hilarious to see you make it and not appear to understand the irony of also claiming to be a Christian, indeed the level of arrogant bombast in your posts claiming to know better than anyone else about what a Christian is, is even more hilarious in light of that sentence. You have of course ignored all my examples of the kinds of crimes that occur daily in those Islamic theocracies whose legal systems you are championing. The difference is that in our country the crime your pointing to is illegal, but in many Islamic theocracies the crimes I have illustrated are perpetrated with the full approval of the existing religious laws that hold power.

Polygllide wrote:You go on about people doing what they like so long as it is lawful,

No I don't you're dishonestly misinterpreting what I said, so much for the ten commandments, the hypocrisy is palpable.

Polyglide wrote:I am talking about those that do not and who give a very dim view of the so called civilised world and which anyone can use as a means of pointing out the lack of respect for themselves and society as a whole

Do not what? Who cares if religious fascists don't like it that others live in free societies, with decent morals and punish those who break their laws. Do you really think publicly flogging young girls who have been gang raped is a better moral code than western democracy? Do you think stoning a girl to death because she's had sex with another consenting adult outside marriage is a decent moral legal system, because that's f****d up.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by polyglide on Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:47 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I am talking about those who do not act within the law and give a good example of how our society has reached a point where the only countries that have more crime are the USA, and Germany and many of whose inhabitants behave as the animals of the jungle.

Just look up the latest figures regarding crime.

Do you actually understand what you write? on numerous occasions you go on about people being allowed to do what they want within the law etc; and yet deny it.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:55 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                I am talking about those who do not act within the law and give a good example of how our society has reached a point where the only countries that have more crime are the USA, and Germany and many of whose inhabitants behave as the animals of the jungle. Just look up the latest figures regarding crime.

Those figures would be the evidence YOU need to provide to make your claim valid, and not just another subjective made up lie. Why can't you understand that the person making the claim is responsible for evidencing it? Implying tabloid headlines support your absurd lie doesn't do it.

Polyglide wrote: Do you actually understand what you write?


Yes, it's the idiotic gibberish you post that vexes me.

Polyglide wrote:on numerous occasions you go on about people being allowed to do what they want within the law etc; and yet deny it.


Nope, that's your remedial English language skills apparently, though to be fair it could just as easily being your pathological dishonesty. I notice you've in gored my post and my questions again, the perfect example of the kind of rank dishonesty I'm talking about.

Do you really think publicly flogging young girls who have been gang raped is a better moral code than western democracy? Do you think stoning a girl to death because she's had sex with another consenting adult outside marriage is a decent moral legal system?

Well, we're all waiting to hear your response I'm sure.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by polyglide on Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:15 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
The figures are those obtained from the latest scientific evidenced calculations, just look at the right site and this would be confirmed.

What I think has nothing to do with how others deal with those who break the law.

If everyone kept within the law there would be no problem.

God deals with the law breakers as he sees fit and at times appears beyond our understanding and that is because we have a very limited understanding.

How many actual examples can you give of your claims?. With absolute proof?.
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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:59 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                The figures are those obtained from the latest scientific evidenced calculations, just look at the right site and this would be confirmed.

You offered no figures, and no link, it's your BS claim, you evidence it. You ignored the evidence I posted, and the links yet want me to scour the internet for you, I think not. Honestly address my post, and the links and evidence, and then post some of your own, that's how discussion works. Bluster and rhetoric fool no one.

Polyglide wrote: If everyone kept within the law there would be no problem.

Don't be absurd, the law systems you are defending as better than the UK flog girls for being gang raped, and I posted the links to these first hand accounts. Or stone young girls for getting pregnant. You may think that doesn't represent a problem but I disagree. In this country we have fair just laws on the whole, like the ones that stop discrimination against minorities that you have repeatedly claimed it is ok to break by defending the actions of a Christian couple who refused to honour a financial agreement and let a room in their B&B to a couple because they happened to be gay.

Polyglide wrote:God deals with the law breakers as he sees fit and at times appears beyond our understanding and that is because we have a very limited understanding.

Speak for yourself, and I don't care what your god does or does not do, I care how humans treat each other in the real world.

Polyglide wrote:How many actual examples can you give of your claims?. With absolute proof?.

There are several in my posts, and you've not even acknowledged them, and this is a bit rich considering you have offered not one shred of evidence for your claim that western democracies have more crime than Islamic theocracies like ISIS.

I didn't notice you answer this either:

Do you really think publicly flogging young girls who have been gang raped is a better moral code than western democracy? Do you think stoning a girl to death because she's had sex with another consenting adult outside marriage is a decent moral legal system?
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Re: Food for thought

Post by polyglide on Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:28 am

Dr, Sheldon,
Link for the crime in different countries, www.nationmaster.com>Home>Country info>stats>Crime>.

I do not agree with many other countries legal systems including many of our own, that is not the point.

The point is can the activities of our people be such as to make young people feel that going to another country that have the henious laws you refer to is a better place?.

You again bring up the homosexual couple who were so devoid of any feelings for anyone else that they upset a Christian couple in the full knowledge of what they were doing when there were several alternatives.



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Re: Food for thought

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:59 pm

The link doesn't work. I Googled it though and I think I found the site, now what is it you're claiming it shows, and why? I'm not researching your claim for you i think I have made this clear enough by now, but it's worth saying up front that lower reported crime quite obviously has more than one possible explanation, especially crimes like rape and paedophilia that are endemic in certain cultures and societies but where the laws (like Sahria for instance) protects men and offers no rights to women or children.

Polyglide wrote:I do not agree with many other countries legal systems including many of our own, that is not the point.
Good to know, but I never asked that, I asked that if you agreed with Sharia law, that you are championing here as having better criminal justice systems with less crime than western democracies. Where in multiple cases that I have shown a women may be stoned to death for adultery, and convicted of adultery when raped if she can't get multiple male witnesses to testify as witnesses to the crime? Or that a girl who becomes pregnant by her boyfriend may be sentenced to 100 lashes in public, or even stoned to death? I linked independent reports of several instances of those examples of Islamic or Sharia law, that you claimed have less crime than western democracies, but of course you offered no evidence to support your claim.

Polyglide wrote:The point is can the activities of our people be such as to make young people feel that going to another country that have the henious laws you refer to is a better place?.

No, but then I tire of telling you this as you claim to be asking but just ignore all the evidence I have shown to support my refutation. Radicalisation can be achieved once someone is made to accept the Koran as the literal word of God, all the incitements to violence are in there and I've already posted multiple examples, which you also ignored. Voltaire's premise again....

Polyglide wrote:You again bring up the homosexual couple who were so devoid of any feelings for anyone else that they upset a Christian couple in the full knowledge of what they were doing when there were several alternatives.

They didn't do anything at all except rent a room in a B&B, if the bigots who ran it didn't want to obey the law then they shouldn't have opened a business that required them to adhere to that law. Their beliefs didn't entitle them to discriminate against gay people, something you'd do well to take on board. Would you say this if they turned a couple away because of their skin colour? After all the same alternatives would be available to them, which just shows how idiotic your claim really is. As I said they ought really to be ashamed to treat anyone with such bigoted prejudice, both as humans and as Christians. As Christians the hypocrisy of their actions in cherry picking the parts of Christian doctrine that suits their own prejudices is all too plain, as is yours in defending their actions and in multiple other posts on here.  

Now once again since you choose to ignore this:

"I didn't notice you answer this either:

Do you really think publicly flogging young girls who have been gang raped is a better moral code than western democracy? Do you think stoning a girl to death because she's had sex with another consenting adult outside marriage is a decent moral legal system?"

It was your blanket claim that such systems have societies with less crime, so why so reticent all of a sudden? Perhaps as usual you have one eye on your own prejudices and simply want to rip off the parts of Islamic law that would support those prejudices.

You never did say though I asked multiple time, so I'll ask again, do you think women should have complete autonomy to dress as they please THE SAME AS MEN? Do you think an adullt should be allowed to take a drink as they please within existing UK laws? Do you think consenting adults should be free to have sex with each other when they choose within existing UK laws?

Now come Poly, you never answer questions honestly how about it?
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Re: Food for thought

Post by polyglide on Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:38 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I have never said that I agree with any Muslim laws, I have never even hinted that I feel yhey are better than ours.

If you actually read what I have said you will find that the Muslim Laws, in my opinion are henious but cannot understand why some young people who have been brought up in our land feel they wouild be better off under those laws.

I think anyone should be able to do as they wish providing they do not break the law of their land.

However, what is acceptable in one land is not so in other lands.

This does not mean that all people in any land are in agreement with all the laws and just as anyone should have the right to act within the law others should have the right to disagree with any law they are not happy with.
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Re: Food for thought

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