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Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

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Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Greatest I am on Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Is it a sin to want to open one’s eyes instead of being blind?

Is it a sin to do as scriptures urge us to do?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Gen 3:2 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Adam and Eve were doing exactly what we are all told by scriptures to do, yet God seemed quite upset.

Why is seeking knowledge and ignoring a vile command to remain in ignorant bliss wrong or a sin?

Are you sinning when you seek knowledge and becoming more like God?

Regards
DL
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:41 am

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:There are many such quirks in the bible and we likely cannot tell why they wrote the way they did. Listen to what this scholar says about why the sun and moon are not created till the forth day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bKa92eLkQM&app=desktop

Is that plausible, Yes but we will never know this far up the time line.

Regards
DL


Well I'll accept we can't "PROVE" why they wrote obvious errors, but we can surmise, and if Occam's razor is any yardstick then their fallible human ignorance seems most plausible. How does this square with the idea that these erroneous claims are derived from omniscience? For me it's beyond credible, and that's before we observe that humans have a propensity for creating deities that don't exist, and are entirely unevidenced.

It is beyond credulity to you and I as we do not need to pamper our hivish or groupish gene. We are world citizens. Some need the safety of the tribe more than others.

That is why even atheists are starting churches as they recognize that if they do not give their children a place to appease that gene, they will turn to religion.

You and I will never likely understand how a person can place their mind and morals into a stop and accept whatever is said position. We cannot go to that kind of mental dissidence.

Martin Luther.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

We cannot fight faith when the faithful have closed their mind to logic and reason.

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DL

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:37 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

I think a more accurate observation is that theists think knowledge can only come from their God. So they think seeking knowledge from any other source is a sin. For instance when scientific facts conflict with religious texts, dogma or doctrine they default to denying the scientific claims.

Note as an example of this attitude the phrase polyglide repeats almost like a mantra that "science only studies what God has created."

A meaningless claim really as it explains nothing and offers no evidence. I suspect its primary purpose is to reassert the pecking order in his mind of God first and science second. Unfortunately the immutable and infallible message from their deity has been disproved many times by science.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:12 pm

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

I think a more accurate observation is that theists think knowledge can only come from their God. So they think seeking knowledge from any other source is a sin. For instance when scientific facts conflict with religious texts,  dogma or doctrine they default to denying the scientific claims.

Note as an example of this attitude the phrase polyglide repeats almost like a mantra that "science only studies what God has created."

A meaningless claim really as it explains nothing and offers no evidence. I suspect its primary purpose is to reassert the pecking order in his mind of God first and science second. Unfortunately the immutable and infallible message from their deity has been disproved many times by science.

You are correct. Idol worshipers can delude themselves quite deeply to maintain their idols supremacy regardless of how silly the start to sound.

We should not complain. He pushes many to our side. In fact, the way I have seen so called theists apologists act of late, they may be atheists only pretending to be theists to help discredit theists.

Friendly flag black op or not, it is working as Christianity is slowly dying.

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DL

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by polyglide on Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:35 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I believe you would agree that the universe exists that mankind along with all the other life forms on earth exists and that there must be a rational explanation for their existance and also a meaning and intent, or the laternative that everything came about by chance and from nothing.

The very latest scientific thought is that the universe began in a very gentle manner throwing the Big Bang theory along with many others into the dustbin.

Forget the Bible for a moment and just consider the above.

In my opinion taking everything into consideration there is no chance whatsoever that an intelligence of some kind is not involved in creation.

In such circumstances our ability to comprehend the intelligence forces are none existant our understanding of everything is limited and so if one believes in creation the logical step is to find the creator.

After 80 years of considering the above and at times totally confused and following the Bible account and personal experiences I am convinced that Jesus came to save an entirely dispicable human society.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:48 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                I believe you would agree that the universe exists that mankind along with all the other life forms on earth exists and that there must be a rational explanation for their existance
Of course, where we differ is I would classify rational explanations as being based on objective evidence that stands up to rigorous investigation. No supernatural claim has ever done this, on the contrary they have fallen like dominoes since humans created a method to do this, that method is called science.

Polyglide wrote:and also a meaning and intent,
No, I don't agree with this at all as it's pure assumption, and there is no evidence to support it at all.

Polyglide wrote: or the laternative that everything came about by chance and from nothing.
This is not 'THE' alternative, there is no evidence that we are limited to just two explanations for a start, that's just another dishonest assumption you keep making endlessly. You're using the Kalam cosmological argument again, and I tire of explaining it's flaws as it's been properly debunked many times. It's basis is the logical fallacy argumentum ad ignorantiam, look it up or read the quotes or follow one of the many links I've been good enough to give you.

Polyglide wrote:The very latest scientific thought is that the universe began in a very gentle manner throwing the Big Bang theory along with many others into the dustbin.
No they don't, you simply don't understand the scientific process or how it works, as I've explained endlessly it is not a linear progression from unevidenced hypothesis to proven absolute, that's not how it works at all. Unfortunately if you won't educate yourself you're doomed to endlessly repeat these idiotic lies that you seem to think validate blind faith in superstition.

Polyglide wrote:Forget the Bible for a moment and just consider the above. In my opinion taking everything into consideration there is no chance whatsoever that an intelligence of some kind is not involved in creation.
Bully for you, as I have pointed out though you can believe the moon is made of cheese, it just don't make it so.

Polyglide wrote: In such circumstances our ability to comprehend the intelligence forces are none existant our understanding of everything is limited and so if one believes in creation the logical step is to find the creator.
If one bases what they believe on superstition then the logical step is to stop and realise you're basing your world view on subjective heresay, but then faith and superstition are anathema to logic, reason, and rationality, not to mention evidence. You make these strident claims as if sheer repetition lends them gravitas, like hail Mary's, but again it simply isn't so.

Polyglide wrote:After 80 years of considering the above and at times totally confused and following the Bible account and personal experiences I am convinced that Jesus came to save an entirely dispicable human society.

I'm sorry but nothing in your posts suggests you've considered anything objectively. Nor does the level of your conviction in your beliefs validate them one iota. The most knowledgeable Christian theologians conservatively estimate that there are over 40000 distinct sects of Christianity alone, and probably at least that many religions besides, both antiquated and contemporary. They invariably cite faith, and are invariable as strident as you about their own subjective beliefs, but only scientific objectivity has moved human knowledge forward, religion has taught us nothing despite being touted in almost every case as immutable truth, and is no less subject to refutation by evidence because of that.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by polyglide on Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:46 am

Dr, Sheldon,
Just exactly what has science told us about the creation of the universe and all that it entails?.

It must have been created or it would not exist.

Do not come up with the nonsense that science is an on going process that leaves everything in limbo for further consideration, science has no answer to creation.

Science has done more harm than good for the future of mankind it has created means of mass distruction along with several chemical means of causing mankind to suffer the most henious deaths and so far as I can tell very little towards improving the overall benefit for the majority of mankind, knowleged of the universe [very limited] etc; does nothing to improve anything.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:05 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                Just exactly what has science told us about the creation of the universe and all that it entails?.

Nothing, science doesn't deal in the mumbo jumbo supernatural claims of creationism, I believe this has been pointed out enough times now for you to desist from such mendaciously loaded questions. I also made no claim that science had explained these things, so it''s also a straw man polemic, and I tire of endlessly pointing out these dishonest repetitions of the same fallacious polemic. Lastly it's also argumentum ad ignorantiam, not knowing something doesn't validate superstitious assumption about supernatural causation.

Polyglide wrote: It must have been created or it would not exist.
Nope, that's just an assumption you've made, endlessly, and seem unable to grasp why it's fallacious reasoning. Ask yourself why your deity doesn't need a creator yet the universe does, and if you were capable of any objectivity you'd realise the double standard underpinning your spurious reasoning.

Polyglide wrote:Do not come up with the nonsense that science is an on going process that leaves everything in limbo for further consideration, science has no answer to creation.
Firstly describing something as nonsense because it neatly dismantles your mumbo jumbo isn't an argument, it strikes me as more like a petulant sulk. Secondly science doesn't even consider the mumbo jumbo of creation, it isn't falsifiable and like unicorns and mermaids can't be studied for that reason and because there is no empirical evidence.

Polyglide wrote:Science has done more harm than good for the future of mankind it has created means of mass distruction along with several chemical means of causing mankind to suffer the most henious deaths and so far as I can tell very little towards improving the overall benefit for the majority of mankind, knowleged of the universe [very limited] etc; does nothing to improve anything.
Of course science is ongoing, don't be an ass, why would we need a method for uncovering knowledge if we already knew everything, that's beyond stupid. You think the science used to explain is the uiverse has no benefits to mankind? Well I beg to differ. You're endlessly trotting out the one misuse of science as you pet whipping boy is not just fallacious, it has been addressed, but you refuse to acknowledge facts like science being a methodology and tool kit and therefore not sentient, science makes no rules about how the knowledge it uncovers is used, so blaming it is like blaming a rock for hurting someone and not the person who threw the rock. I really can;t dumb this down any more for you, as I suspect your blind repetition of this rant is entirely dishonest.

How many wars has religion caused, directly caused by invoking the faithful to violence? How many wars can you show texts that prove science demanded them? How many diseases has religion cured or eradicated? How much medical research is derived from religious texts? It's none obviously. How many people including children die in pain and unimaginable suffering because their parent choose the mumbo jumbo of their religious beliefs and refuse to seek proper scientifically evidenced medical treatments?
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:15 pm

polyglide wrote:Greatest I am, Would you please explain your understanding of equality.

Equality: "Equality is ensuring individuals or groups of individuals are treated fairly and equally and no less favourably, specific to their needs, including areas of race, gender, disability, religion or belief, sexual orientation and age. Promoting equality should remove discrimination in all of the aforementioned areas."

Polyglide wrote:Do you mean, as your comments suggest, that everything goes and their are no rules?
There are no rules, not their are....and...
That's not equality, that's anarchy.

Polyglide wrote:or that the rules are apllicable to everyone equally?. If the latter the problem would be, who makes the rules and on what grounds.
Equality by definition (defined above) would require laws be applicable to everyone EQUALLY. Humans make the rules, and they are applied on the grounds that everyone is equal, of course.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:48 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon, Just exactly what has science told us about the creation of the universe and all that it entails?.

It's evidenced that the universe is 14 billion years old, that our solar system is 4.6 billion years old. It has evidenced that humans are no more than 200,000 years old. This on it's own shows that Genesis is nonsense.

Polyglide wrote:It must have been created or it would not exist.
So God must have been created, or would not exist? Or are you making up an arbitrary rule with NO EVIDENCE AT ALL, and that contradicts your own religious beliefs that claim your deity exists but was not created, again WITH NO EVIDENCE AT ALL.

Polyglide wrote:Do not come up with the nonsense that science is an on going process that leaves everything in limbo for further consideration,
Why do you think this is nonsense? You keep claiming that you can't understand your deity, and you have NO EVIDENCE AT ALL for its existence. At least science has discovered and tested evidence that help us understand the physical world and universe, and science has had just a few hundred years, not the thousands religions have had, and still failed to teach us one single unequivocal truth.  

Polyglide wrote:science has no answer to creation.
Science has 'no answer' to mermaids, or unicorns, or Zeus,  this is because science doesn't provide answers to myths, and superstitions that have NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER to study and test.

Polyglide wrote:Science has done more harm than good
Rubbish, science is why there are more humans alive now than at any point in human history, and they live longer lives, and they are less likely to succumb to deadly disease and virus, and they have better medical care. Until science intervened the best your deity could manage was to abort around 90% of foetuses during childbirth, along with the mothers. The influenza pandemic of 1918 killed nearly 50 million people, that was according to you part of your deities creation, how many Christians did your deity kill with it? How many with malaria, leprosy, cancer, or simply starvation and predation? Then of course there's smallpox, a particularly nasty disease that according to you "MUST HAVE BEEN CREATED IF IT EXISTS", and science has entirely eradicated it. Lets take a look at what you claim your deity created
Polyglide wrote:It must have been created or it would not exist.
and science eradicated:

             
Polyglide wrote:for the future of mankind it has created means of mass distruction
Destruction, not distruction, and no it hasn't, science provided the means to objectively evidence hypothesis, and test the results, only humans can decide what to with the results, unlike religions which contain evil malevolent doctrines in religious texts they claim are revelations from their deity.

Polyglide wrote: along with several chemical means of causing mankind to suffer the most henious deaths

Every single medicine and medical treatment that we have is courtesy of the scientific fields of chemistry, and biology, if someone chooses to take an overdose of pain killers and  destroy their livers that's not the fault of science, any more than a rock can be blamed for the harm it causes if a human decides to bludgeon someone to death with it, usually because their religious book says they should, SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

Polyglide wrote:and so far as I can tell very little towards improving the overall benefit for the majority of mankind,
So you think smallpox was a benefit to mankind then? You really are being exceptionally idiotic now.

Polygslide wrote:knowleged of the universe [very limited] etc; does nothing to improve anything.
So the laws of physics, the theory of gravity and magnetism, don't improve our lives? You saved the dumbest for last, well done. Can you really admire ignorance this much? It's hard to believe that anyone could revel in, and even glorify ignorance, and the prospect of ignorance as much as your posts suggest you do, but thank you, as I really would never have realised just how corrosive and destructive religious belief could be to education. I always opposed indoctrinating children via their state funded education, with the mumbo jumbo of religion, but you have really opened my eyes here.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by marcolucco on Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:49 am

Is it a sin to seek knowledge? Who but the Old Man of the Mountains would know? I hope I am not regarded as a sinner for enquiring, of Dr. Sheldon Cooper PhD, why he permits the tautological use of the cognomen "Doctor" when his declared decree advertises the same honour.
But he writes well.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by polyglide on Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:13 am

Dr, Sheldon,
Mankind previously lived for hundreds of years and the health problems you refer to can in many cases be traced to the misuse of the many things God gave us to use in a proper and appropriate manner.

Every desease has a cause.

To answer the question posed, of course it is not a sin to seek knowledge, to consider how the earth was formed how everything was created and how mankind could be so stupid to come to a situation where scientists have created the means of mass destruction and to attempt to learn how it has come about and if there is any chance of salvation, seek and ye shall find.

The amount of knowlege obtained and used through science has led to the present situation that threatens man's existance.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:28 am

Mankind never lived for hundreds of years. This is an absurd myth. I mentioned no health issues. I cited an appalling disease that you claimed must have been created, and which science has completely eradicated. 

Diseases have causes that's axiomatic, but that's not what you claimed. You claimed above that everything that existed must have been created. 

You've completely missed GIA's point. His thread question is predicated on the Genesis myth in the bible and god apparently cursing all humans forever because of two humans eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge.  An absurd idea of course, but you haven't really addressed it, and your posts indicate an irrational antipathy towards knowledge and the pursuit of the same.  

Science hasn't created the means for mass destruction. Humans have. As I keep pointing out it's imbecilic to blame the method humans use to gain knowledge for what humans then use that knowledge for. Unlike religious texts which abound with violence prejudice hatred and malevolence, scientific texts make no such demands. 

One more time, it's existence.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by polyglide on Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:46 am

Dr, Sheldon,
Then on that basis it is not applicable to give credit to scientists for anything, everything has been done by humans, your lack of logic is beyond compare.

If scientists had not created the nuclear bomb and the numerous other henious methods of killing, mankind could not have the opportunity to use them.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:50 am

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                Then on that basis it is not applicable to give credit to scientists for anything, everything has been done by humans, your lack of logic is beyond compare. to use them.

Scientists 'are human'. Did you not know this?
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by polyglide on Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:55 am

Dr, Sheldon,
So now you are saying that scientists are not seperate and are not responsible in their own right, I do not know about Straw Man but I think you should consult a Scare Crow.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:03 pm

Polyglide wrote:[size=47]If scientists had not created the nuclear bomb and the numerous other henious methods of killing, mankind could not have the opportunity to use them. [/size]

I didn't say 'SCIENTISTS' were not to blame, I said 'SCIENCE' was not to blame. Are you really not able to understand the difference between blaming the method and blaming those who use the results? Wow!  I'm afraid I can't dumb it down much more for you. 

Imagine someone shows another person how handy a rock is as a tool, then that person beats another person to death with a rock as the rock is more efficient than using their bare hands. Now is the human who showed him how handy the rock is to blame for the death? Or is the rock to blame? Or is the human who used the rock to blame?

In this analogy the first human is the scientist, the rock is science itself, and the murderer someone who decides how to use science. 

Now also ask yourself does the rock stop being useful as a tool because it used to murder someone? Then ask yourself is the rock to blame for how it was used? I really can't dumb it down any more I'm afraid. 

You seemed happy enough with your deity committing global genocide anyway, so your objection is an odd one given nuclear war has never occurred. 


You have a truly bizarre and illogical thought process. You constantly create straw man polemics as well, though I suspect you don't understandwhat this is or you'd realise how spurious they are. I have no idea what you're talking about with your scarecrow remark, but again I'm really finding it hard to believe you're an octogenarian,  your posts more resemble the petulance of an adolescent.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by polyglide on Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:20 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
No nuclear war, have you heard of Japan I have actually seen the destruction a nuclear bomb caused.

The one to blame for the rock is the one who put it there in the first place and neither the one who picked it up nor the one who used it created it.

Scientists developed the nuclear bomb for one purpose only from material not intended for that purpose and they created it, there is a vast difference between picking up a stone and actually creating a means of mass destruction, or your lack of logic is even less than previously indicated.

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:11 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                No nuclear war, have you heard of Japan I have actually seen the destruction a nuclear bomb caused.

That wasn't a nuclear war, no nuclear exchange took place, and as awful as the destruction was it seems likely the Japanese would have invited far worse on both themselves and the allies had they not been dropped. Though we'll never know for sure, the fact they didn't surrender after Hiroshima was bombed and provoked a second bombing on Nagasaki seems very compelling to me.

Polyglide wrote:The one to blame for the rock is the one who put it there in the first place and neither the one who picked it up nor the one who used it created it.

You're not really thinking this through again, as given that you have repeatedly claimed that everything that exists must have been created, this would make your deity responsible in every instance. However you are again missing the point as this is an analogy, a rock is insentient, as is the scientific process, neither can therefore be culpable for the actions of humans who use them, the very claim is absurd.

Polyglide wrote:Scientists developed the nuclear bomb for one purpose

Scientists, not science. Science is an insentient process, scientists however are culpable for their actions. That bomb also saved millions of lives in all likelihood, and ended one of the most violent and barbaric militaristic regimes in human history. A regime that was based on absolute belief in, and obedience to, a living deity, sound familiar? This is also one incident, compared this to all the good medical science has done and is doing, the lives saved. Disease eradicated, like the awful debilitating Smallpox, that no human will ever have to suffer again thanks to science.

Polyglide wrote:only from material not intended for that purpose and they created it, there is a vast difference between picking up a stone and actually creating a means of mass destruction, or your lack of logic is even less than previously indicated.

Or you really haven't the intellect to recognise an analogy even after it's been explained multiple times. My money is on this explanation, the material already existed, as did the laws of physics, so your deity must have created both, or are we about to see yet another astonishing and dishonest contradiction from you? You claimed scientists couldn't create anything, only use what God had created, so which is it? I should leave the logic of others alone if I was you, as you are simply in no position to cast aspersions of this type.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:24 pm

polyglide wrote: Dr, Sheldon, Then on that basis it is not applicable to give credit to scientists for anything, everything has been done by humans, your lack of logic is beyond compare. to use them.

Sheldon Cooper wrote:Scientists 'are human'. Did you not know this?

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon, So now you are saying that scientists are not seperate

Separate from humans? In what sense? I've no idea what you're trying to claim here or what possible relevance it has. Scientists are human and like all humans they are fallible, and culpable for their actions, science is an insentient process, a method or tool kit for objectively gathering and testing evidence. Just like a hammer is a useful tool, it could still be used to crack someone's head open, does this make the hammer evil in your eyes? This is asinine logic.

Knowledge is not to blame for how it is used, the very idea is absurd, and not seeking knowledge would cause untold suffering, the medical knowledge alone has saved countless lives and eased the suffering of an untold number, and will continue to do so. To deny the pursuit of knowledge would be to deny one the things that most uniquely makes us human. I don't we could do it even we wanted to anyway.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by polyglide on Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:36 am

Dr, Sheldon,
I do not think you even know what logic is.

God created all things for the benifit of mankind in the first place.

He gave man the freedom to use them as they wished having given them advice regarding life.

What mankind has done with God's creations is down to man and nothing else.

The way in which anything is used is down to those using it and no one else.

When a hammer is used for other purposes, as with anything else that is misused, even the human body, it is a perversion, Oxford Dictionary, and therefore the person using anything reperversly is to blame and not the product.

Of course scientists are human and they have been responsible for numerous means of destruction and the creation of germ warfair potential.

You keep saying scientists have done this and that for humanity , however, the truth is they have just done as much harm as good as we now have the potential for destroying the world or creating the most henious illnesses [germ warfare as used in Syria being the latest]

Just look at the world as a whole and not just from your cushy house and job and think of the millions of people who have nothing, no food, no clean water and no house not even a tent
and then tell me what good the scientist have done.

Most scientist are on an ego trip and the sooner they fall off and the world as a whole starts dealing with the real problems instead of scientists creating more the better.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:17 pm

My knowledge of formal logic is extremely small, but I'd be prepared to bet my life savings you know absolutely nothing about it. Your posts have endlessly demonstrated this with your almost constant use and ignorance of common logical fallacy.  So do try not to be quite so pompous. 

As for people who use tools being entirely culpable, that is precisely what I said in my post, and what's more it's what I've pointed out throughout this discourse. Humans are responsible for how they use scientific knowledge.  Science is an insentient process and so can no more be culpable for how it is used than a hammer can be responsible for how it is used. 

What scientists use scientific knowledge for is their fault and no blame can attach itself to science for the reasons already stated. However it's an absurd distortion to keep citing one use of science used to make nuclear bombs as somehow representing a greater harm than all the good science has been used for. 

I'll bet you are happy enough to visit your doctor and seem content to use a computer and the Internet powered by electricity.  None of which would exist without science.  

The only bloated ego I see here belongs to someone who crassly tries to judge and derogate "most scientists" as if you could possibly know what personal motives millions of people have. 

You seem to revel in ignorance. Which is your choice of course, but please leave the rest of us with antibiotics and medical advancements that save millions every year., and arms us with the knowledge to live safer longer lives. Off you go to live in a cave if you truly think your world will be better without science put up or shut up.

The war in Syria is is motivated by religious hatred. Blaming science for it is dumb even by the standards set in that post.

So now I have a cushy house and job? More sententiously arrogant judging from you, and considering you know squat about me pretty stupid judgments at that. Your pious self righteous act is exposed for the fraud it is and is truly sickening.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:05 pm

polyglide wrote: God created all things for the benifit of mankind in the first place.

Cancer, malaria, tuberculosis, leprosy, predation, parasitic organisms, smallpox, bubonic plague, influenza, blood poisoning, multitudes of venomous creatures with a wide variety of gruesome suffering and death, solar radiation, salmonella, dysentery, screwworms....."All things bright and beautiful" trah lah lah lah lah lah......Rolling Eyes
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:07 pm

Polyglide wrote:The way in which anything is used is down to those using it and no one else.

So you agree that humans are to blame for how they use science, and not science itself, you are not being very logical or consistent.


Last edited by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:15 pm

Polyglide wrote:
Just look at the world as a whole and not just from your cushy house and job and think of the millions of people who have nothing, no food, no clean water and no house not even a tent
and then tell me what good the scientist have done.

Reduced the number suffering and starving by increasing our knowledge and enabling us to feed billions. Eased the suffering of millions by curing, treating, and eradicating diseases, easing the suffering of countless millions with medical treatments and medicines. Helping those in need to get clean drinking water with engineering projects, which is more than anything in the bible or the Koran has managed, ever, beyond a placebo patch for those that crave a comfort blanket over reality.

I left my 2 bed terraced "cushy house" and took time from my job, to train for a whole year for a charity cycle ride recently, to help a village in Africa get a clean drinking water project completed, when a friend who was raising the money himself by charity work was injured badly. He still took part in the ride we arranged despite breaking his back in a life changing accident that same year, and thanks to the efforts of the people involved 100's of lives a year will be saved. I had an attack of sciatica midway through the training that lasted 4 weeks and could barely walk for that time, but still completed the training and the 60 mile charity ride in torrential rain, and I already suffer chronic back pain, but I did it because it was a good cause. So why don't you try ditching the insulting rhetoric, you arrogant pompous blowhard. I know you lack the intelligence to cope with adult discussion so I've cut you a fair bit of slack, but your ad hominem insults are becoming very tiresome again. Wind your neck in or get it back...

In what sense are scientists separate from humans?
In what sense are scientists separate from humans?
In what sense are scientists separate from humans?
In what sense are scientists separate from humans?

Do you ever answer questions?
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by polyglide on Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:06 am

Dr, Sheldon,
I admire your efforts on behalf of those less fortunate I too have given many hours towards the benifit of others in actual fact for well over 10 years in just one respect, however, I am well aware that many individuals have given far more.

That is not the point, if every country put their best efforts into doing what they should do individuals would just have to participate along with the rest of society it is the fact that individuals have to do something that is wrong with society.

Scientists are humans and I have never indicated otherwise.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:32 pm

It was relevant because you made an insulting condescending claim about me. I don't require admiration, I did it because it was the right thing to do and because I could. Just as in your remarks about scientists working through pure ego and self interest you're making crass assumptions that those who don't share your views and beliefs have less worthy motives. You have no evidence for this beyond pure prejudice against scientists science and atheism & secularism.

In what sense are scientists separate from humans? 
In what sense are scientists separate from humans? 
In what sense are scientists separate from humans? 
In what sense are scientists separate from humans? 


Do you ever answer questions?


Since religion has had thousands of years and the vast majority of the world's population are theists, all according to you created by and overseen by an omnipotent deity, I'm not sure that the terrible state of certain parts of the world is something you ought to highlight. Hunger poverty and war tend to be in the undeveloped parts as well, for a variety of reasons no doubt, but oddly enough theism and religiosity is far higher in these countries than the post industrialised developed western countries many of whom are moving steadily away from religion. 
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:26 pm

by polyglide on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:46 pm  
....it is not applicable to give credit to scientists for anything, everything has been done by humans.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:50 pm
Scientists 'are human'. Did you not know this?

by polyglide on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:55 pm
...So now you are saying that scientists are not seperate

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:24 pm
...Separate from humans? In what sense?

by polyglide Yesterday at 12:36 pm
...I do not think you even know what logic is.  Of course scientists are human

polyglide wrote: Scientists are humans and I have never indicated otherwise.

I don't think you should even mention logic until you grasp even a remedial understanding of English. 'YOU' implied scientists were not human in that first post I've quoted, then when I queried this astonishing claim you replied by claiming they were separate from humans. Then when I asked you in what way you claim they are separate, you have fully reversed your position and claimed that of course they are human and you never claimed otherwise, seriously poly are you on medication? If they scientists are not separate from humans then why did you claim it? If you are still claiming it then in what way are 'YOU' claiming scientists are separate from humans?
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by polyglide on Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:56 am

Dr, Sheldon,
You have me baffled, just where, in actual words, have I ever said that scientists are not human.

What you have done is miss the important part of the sentence.

I was refering to your attempt to blame science rather than scientists and I have never in any way said scientists are not human.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by polyglide on Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:00 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
To seek knowledge is fine, it is how that knowledge is used that is important.

Science has been responsible for many things both good and bad and unfortunately many things have been bad.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by snowyflake on Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:36 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                To seek knowledge is fine, it is how that knowledge is used that is important.

                Science has been responsible for many things both good and bad and unfortunately many things have been bad.

Science has been responsible for most thing being good. You watch far too much TV and believe anti-science propaganda spouted by religious eejits. Most scientific discoveries have been for the benefit of mankind. Talking this way to anyone, anywhere in the world on a mobile phone was unthinkable 150 years ago and look at us now. We are healthier, live longer, have more technology, better medicine, better understanding of genetics, biology, physics etc than ever before. Science is good.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by polyglide on Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:33 pm

snowflake,
A person saves thousnds of people from harm and does good for many years and suddenly decides to kill one or two, I know it will be lost on you but try, try,
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by snowyflake on Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:38 pm

polyglide wrote:snowflake,
             A person saves thousnds of people from harm and does good for many years and suddenly decides to kill one or two, I know it will be lost on you but try, try,

If you are going to say stupid things then we cannot have a discussion. Explain what you mean instead of making idiotic statements that mean nothing to the people outside your head. Sorry, I don't have much patience today.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:33 pm

polyglide wrote:I was refering to your attempt to blame science rather than scientists and I have never in any way said scientists are not human.
I have never blamed science rather than scientists, I have always claimed precisely the opposite,
by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:03 pm
I didn't say 'SCIENTISTS' were not to blame, I said 'SCIENCE' was not to blame.
Nor have I ever claimed you said scientists weren't human, so you're baffling yourself it seems. Again I think your very remedial literacy is the root of your confusion here.

Polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon, You have me baffled, just where, in actual words, have I ever said that scientists are not human.
Well just where did I claim you'd said scientists weren't human? I asked you in what way they are separate from humans, which was what you had claimed......
by polyglide on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:46 pm not applicable to give credit to scientists for anything, everything has been done by humans
by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:50 pm
Scientists 'are human'. Did you not know this?
by polyglide on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:55 pm
Dr, Sheldon, So now you are saying that scientists are not seperate
I repeated my question in multiple posts and you won't answer, but are now lying about what I said. So are you going to tell us why you think scientists are separate from humans, as you have claimed above twice?

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:51 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon, To seek knowledge is fine, it is how that knowledge is used that is important.
This is precisely the point I have been making for page after page and that you have been repeated;y denying, so why the about turn? Science is just a means to seek knowledge, it's how people use that knowledge that is culpable not science itself.

Polyglide wrote:Science has been responsible for many things both good and bad and unfortunately many things have been bad.
scratch Rolling Eyes Oh dear.....So you start by saying that seeking knowledge, which is what science does, is fine, but that it is how that knowledge science provides is used that is important. Then end by contradicting yourself completely by blaming science again. You really have a very very poor grasp of language I'm afraid.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by polyglide on Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:31 am

Dr, Sheldon,
You will find no contradiction in what I have stated, it is you that cannot read all that is said and pick out of context words that are irrelevant to the actual statement.

I blame science for the bad things they have created and I have never said anything like what you are claiming and I did not mention science at all regarding knowledeg it is you who brought it up.

You obviously think you have the same ability to read minds as snowyflake, just reply to what I say and not to what you pick and choose.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by polyglide on Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:40 am

snowyflake,
As a person who thinks they can mind read I thought you would have understood what my post meant,

So to put it in the most simple terms:-

All the good scientists have done is put at risk by all the bad they have done.

The Russians have just let slip that they have a bomb that can breach the deepest caves made by man and create a 6,000 mile area of total destruction along with every country having the means of chemical warfare.

As far as I am concerned science is a two pronged giant which would eventually be the end of mankind were it not that God will step in first.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:25 pm

polyglide wrote:
Dr, Sheldon, You will find no contradiction in what I have stated, it is you that cannot read all that is said and pick out of context words that are irrelevant to the actual statement. I blame science for the bad things they have created and I have never said anything like what you are claiming and I did not mention science at all regarding knowledeg it is you who brought it up. You obviously think you have the same ability to read minds as snowyflake, just reply to what I say and not to what you pick and choose.


What was I thinking, I'm sure you're right champ. Just as I'm sure everyone else is stupid and you alone are a genius. I'm sure your execrable grammar and show of illiteracy are just a coincidence to no one understanding your imbecilic gibberish. Hence three posts from Snowyflake have you insulting her intelligence already. Irony overload again. You can't read.......simple as that

Now one more time in what way are scientists separate from humans, as that is what you claimed?
by polyglide on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:55 pm
Dr, Sheldon, So now you are saying that scientists are not seperate
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by polyglide on Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:07 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
You have just made several statements, please justify.

I have not insulted snowyflake at all other than to relpy to her insulting remarks reqarding God and you have made a few yourself.

Show me exactly where I have said scientists are not human and the full content in both what you have said that
warranted a reply.

It must be marvelous to be so intelligent to the extent that you have gone beyond understanding the obvious.

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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:00 pm

I never said you said scientists weren't human. I have stated this plainly several times so why you keep dishonestly claiming it is anyone's guess. 

You claimed scientists were separate from humans.I've quoted your post each time. 

by polyglide on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:55 pm
Dr, Sheldon, So now you are saying that scientists are not seperate

Now I ask again, in what way are YOU claim scientists are separate from humans?
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:03 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon, I have not insulted snowyflake at all             
Liar.
[size=32]by polyglide on Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:40 am[/size]

[size=41]snowyflake,
As a person who thinks they can mind read I thought you would have understood what my post meant,

So to put it in the most simple terms:-[/size]
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Post by polyglide on Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:14 pm

DR, Sheldon,
My post to which you refer was in reply to yours that said science was not responsible, humans were.

So in fact you said ?????? there was no such thing as scientists just humans.
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Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

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