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Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

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Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by witchfinder on Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

French satirical magazine "Charlie Hebdo" has published pictures of the prophet Mohamed as a cartoon character in its latest issue, the magazine also stated that the prophet was the editor in chief for that particular issue, the result is the petrol bombing and destruction of the magazines offices in Paris.

It is strictly forbidden in Islam for anyone to make or create images of the prophet Mohamed, to do so is regarded by Muslims to be disrespectful and is an insult, therefore one has to ask - why ?, why did this magazine feel it necessary to knowingly and deliberately upset a section of French society. ?

Personaly I am a none believer, I am from a Christian background, and though I will frequently criticise Islam, the Catholic Church, Jewish hard liners and American bible bashers, I would not go so far as to purposely disrespect or poke fun at someone elses beliefs, this is called tolerance.

I am glad we live in the United Kingdom where the preaching or publishing or promotion of religious hatred and intolerance is forbiden by law - in some nations you are allowed to preach hatred and hide behind the wall called "freedom of speech", in some nations there is no hiding place.

We have seen the reactions of some Muslims before when this has happened, it begs the question - was this magazine looking for publicity knowing they would attract attention, perhaps their sales figures were down.





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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by stuart torr on Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:42 pm

Do you not find that EVIDENCE for the existence of god nil Sheldon? Cool Cool

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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:56 pm

witchfinder wrote:French satirical magazine "Charlie Hebdo" has published pictures of the prophet Mohamed as a cartoon character in its latest issue, the magazine also stated that the prophet was the editor in chief for that particular issue, the result is the petrol bombing and destruction of the magazines offices in Paris.

It is strictly forbidden in Islam for anyone to make or create images of the prophet Mohamed, to do so is regarded by Muslims to be disrespectful and is an insult, therefore one has to ask - why ?, why did this magazine feel it necessary to knowingly and deliberately upset a section of French society. ?

Personaly I am a none believer, I am from a Christian background, and though I will frequently criticise Islam, the Catholic Church, Jewish hard liners and American bible bashers, I would not go so far as to purposely disrespect or poke fun at someone elses beliefs, this is called tolerance.

I am glad we live in the United Kingdom where the preaching or publishing or promotion of religious hatred and intolerance is forbiden by law - in some nations you are allowed to preach hatred and hide behind the wall called "freedom of speech", in some nations there is no hiding place.

We have seen the reactions of some Muslims before when this has happened, it begs the question - was this magazine looking for publicity knowing they would attract attention, perhaps their sales figures were down.

It's an interesting point, but personally I regard the right to free speech and freedom of expression as a cornerstone of basic human rights that should extend to every individual, I'm afraid I don't recognise any such thing as the right to be offended. Now a person chooses what to believe and if others question or criticise those beliefs then so be it, no idea or belief should be ring fenced from comment or criticism. Theists also have the same right and are free to respond if they are minded to do so. What does it say about a person's beliefs if they don't respect the rights of others and use violence to silence criticism? In my own opinion it reflects fairly badly on someone's beliefs if they need to use violence to deflect criticism.

It also strikes me as a little absurd that a deity professed to be omnipotent needs its human creation to use physical violence to defend it, it also of course strikes me as a little too convenient for those who simply wish to force their opinions ideas and beliefs on others. We either have freedom of speech and expression or we don't, there is no half measures. This doesn't of course mean people may say anything they wish with impunity, as there are laws to protect the individuals from things such as defamation.  

The point is of course that religion in general, and Islam in particular has a great deal that deserves to be criticised, IMHO.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by stuart torr on Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:24 pm

Definitely Sheldon, freedom of speech should not include violence to impose it should it?
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:29 pm

stuart torr wrote:Definitely Sheldon, freedom of speech should not include violence to impose it should it?

Generally speaking violence is used to oppose it I find. Wink

Personally I think there there are very good reasons some people are so afraid of allowing their beliefs to be criticised. After all they must be afraid or they wouldn't resort to anger aggression and violence.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by stuart torr on Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:38 pm

They must be afraid of them being proven wrong, or they would not resort to violence and aggression to defend them would they Sheldon.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:43 pm

stuart torr wrote:They must be afraid of them being proven wrong, or they would not resort to violence and aggression to defend them would they Sheldon.

Well I can't think of any other reason to use violence to try and stop people criticising or commenting on their religious beliefs. An omnipotent deity could surely do it's own smiting if it were that way inclined after all.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by stuart torr on Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:50 pm

Exactly Sheldon, but what had those innocent shoppers done yesterday I wonder when killed by the rubbish truck whose driver had had a heart attack at it's wheel killing six including a pregnant woman.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:04 pm

stuart torr wrote:Exactly Sheldon, but what had those innocent shoppers done yesterday I wonder when killed by the rubbish truck whose driver had had a heart attack at it's wheel killing six including a pregnant woman.
.

Or those innocent school children in Pakistan. Like I said there is plenty to criticise about Islam, and no one has the right to threaten violence against anyone who voices a criticism of religion. In the 21st century it's sad to think that blasphemy is still incurring violence. headbang
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by stuart torr on Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:27 pm

I know Sheldon, bloody awful to say the least, why on this Earth pick on poor school children? every religion has something you can find wrong with it surely? but why is it that Islam has to go this far? why on Earth can't they take criticism? we as atheists take it all the time do we not? but we do not go around killing anyone.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:32 pm

The current spat between the USA and North Korea over internet hacking is a brilliant example of people's preference for misunderstanding each other.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by stuart torr on Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:09 am

I did not know OW, that it was all over internet hacking? blimey and it has got that far.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:31 pm

Further examples of Man's inhumanity to Man from this week's distressing events in Paris. Yet we have to maintain our guard against "hating in plurals" because the extreme activities of a few zealots does not reflect upon the vast majority of their fellows who condemn such actions in the same terms as friends of the victims.

It comes as no surprise that the British Prime Minister pops up to remind us that he is keeping a stern eye on the situation this side of the Channel, again quite happy to give a dog a bad name for political advantage.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by stuart torr on Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:17 pm

Oh so true OW. A small percentage ruin it for the masses do they not? and Cameron is just like a poop in the street, you wipe him off your shoes afterwards, but the smell lingers.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by polyglide on Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:39 am

It is a sad fact that were there no religions there would still be those whose only thoughts would include causing as much trouble as possible.

I doubt very much if those who are causing all the problems actually understand the religion which they are supposed to stand for.

There is nothing more complex than the different ways in which mankind approaches certain subjects and religion is one of them.


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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:55 pm

polyglide wrote:It is a sad fact that were there no religions there would still be those whose only thoughts would include causing as much trouble as possible.

I doubt very much if those who are causing all the problems actually understand the religion which they are supposed to stand for.

There is nothing more complex than the different ways in which mankind approaches certain subjects and religion is one of them.



Almost as if religion is entirely man made, and our evolved instincts can still upset our best intentions. Wink And religion is flawed because the humans that created it are flawed.

Though of course a deity with both omniscience and omnipotence could easily, unequivocally and instantly settle any misunderstandings, yet theists claim it doesn't want to. A slightly irrational claim for a being that's also claimed to be benevolent.

There is also another problem here that you haven't addressed and that is that religious texts validate violent behaviour again and again, often citing such behaviour from the deity involved. Rolling Eyes Now who would care what humans think or want when they "know" what God thinks and wants? It's a very dangerous idea for a person to think their responsibility to other humans is secondary to their responsibility to a "big other" whether it be a deity or a political ideology. Hence the need for universal human rights, that no religious beliefs can infringe on.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by stuart torr on Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:15 pm

As per the Paris debacle Sheldon, the hostage takers, and killers had nothing more in their mind than to become martyrs, did they not.?
They knew less about their religion than probably you or I.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:55 pm

stuart torr wrote:As per the Paris debacle Sheldon, the hostage takers, and killers had nothing more in their mind than to become martyrs, did they not.?
They knew less about their religion than probably you or I.

Religion is not entirely to blame, but nor is it entirely blameless. There are plenty of precedents set in the Koran and the bible for advocating violence against people who don't share their beliefs.


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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by stuart torr on Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:28 pm

But it is the few that is ruining it for the masses is it not Sheldon?
How many Christians in this country do you see going out and killing people because they do not believe in the bible?
This is mainly down to a few sects run by ISIS IMO, under the names
of the ones that killed in Paris for one because they persuade them to become martyrs.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by polyglide on Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:38 am

The most obvious reason for many of our problems is inequality.
to a certain extent I can understand how this can attribute to a person becoming disillusioned and grasp anything to allow him/her to take revenge in an inapropriate manner.

Those brought up in a strict religion and who become disillusioned have a perfect excuse for taking certain parts of their belief in a manner not intended.

I do not believe that all statements made in the Bible were meant to be taken literally but to emphasise the gravity of the point in question.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:35 pm

Curious how "freedom of expression" has now inspired David Cameron to declare that if re-elected in May, he will allow the security services greater access to personal communications.

Some might think that ever more intrusive erosion of ordinary people's privacy might just serve to provide jehadists with a significant victory.

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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by boatlady on Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:08 am

'Freedom of expression', like 'freedom' and 'choice' is in many ways a paradoxical and complex concept.

Sounds brilliant when you say it - of course we should all have freedom of expression, of course we should all have choice and freedom - what is often overlooked is that along with those freedoms comes responsibility - the responsibility not to abuse the freedom.

The abuse of the concept of 'choice' is visible clearly in our public life and the dismantling of our public services - in the name of 'choice' care services are being contracted out from our local authorities, hospital services are being outsourced, in the belief that this will create more flexibility and thus improve choice, while also saving money - win-win you might think.
In reality so often what this means is that personal and medical care services are being provided by less qualified individuals, with less security of employment and fewer employment rights . I'm particularly thinking of the growth of personal budgets to finance care services - you get a budget from the local authority in order to directly employ a carer. There is no provision in the budget to pay for training, holiday pay or sick pay and if the relationship doesn't work out the carer obviously loses their job.
This came out of a service users' campaign for more choice and will obviously work better for some than for others - however, from the employees' perspective it isn't what you'd call a 'career' or even a secure occupation.

Moving on to freedom of expression - of course we should all be free to speak our minds - it's obvious innit?
However, what if speaking our minds causes extreme resentment? Should we then moderate our free expression? What if speaking our minds causes racial hatred? Should we then moderate our free expression?
Or what if we are allowed to speak our minds on some topics and not on others? I believe someone was recently arrested for plain speaking to David Cameron in a public place - surely not a cause for widespread civil unrest, whereas inflammatory newspaper articles, statements form public figures, facebook postings etc go on unchecked - AS LONG AS THEY DON'T ATTACK THE WRONG TARGET.

It is absolutely horrendous that armed men invaded a comic paper's offices and killed several people - whatever the provocation - however, it's also absolutely horrendous that, in the interest of national security the US continues to send out drones to bomb, among others, non-combatants (that's women and children), that the State of Israel was permitted, in the full view of the world, to spend last summer bombing the tiny community of Gaza with a death toll well over 2000, including some 500-600 children.
It's also absolutely horrendous that some people's response to that was to indulge in anti-Semitic behaviour.


I think the point about freedom of speech is, that like any freedom, it should be exercised responsibly, with appropriate restraint, and not to foment fear and loathing, or ridicule.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by polyglide on Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:05 pm

boatlady,
This matter is more complex than at first glance.

Of course there should be free speach and freedom of choice etc; however, there must also be safeguards against abuse of either.

Without which the world would be in a worse state [if that were possible] than it is now.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by stuart torr on Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:16 pm

That sounds quite true P.G.
Without a sense of humour also though, P.G. THAT is what helps the world go round in a way does it not?
The world is in a bad way, but with terrorists like the ones in Paris it can only get worse, and it is those which the world must stand up against, from every religion, race, and culture.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by polyglide on Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:23 pm

Hi Stu,
Yes, I am afraid if we do not all stand together against evil from whatever source the future looks bleak indeed.

Of course we are all entitled to our opinions and even if we disagree there is little point in making that an excuse for not doing so.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:14 pm

polyglide wrote:boatlady,
             This matter is more complex than at first glance.

             Of course there should be free speach and freedom of choice etc; however, there must also be safeguards against abuse of either.

              Without which the world would be in a worse state [if that were possible] than it is now.  
           

Hmm, what kind of "safeguards"? We already have laws against defamation and inciting hatred, I'm not sure we need any more, and we certainly don't need any kind of blasphemy laws, that would be a disastrous step backward for any free society. Freedom of speech and expression is an absolute cornerstone of any democratic society, no belief of idea should be beyond criticism.
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Je ne suis pas Charlie

Post by patakace on Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:35 am

http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2015/01/14/19875.shtml
TAKEN FROM THE AMERICAN THINKER: Charlie Hebdo is an enemy of Western civilisation

I wonder how long it will take before the masses realise what a crass and immature company Charlie Hebdo really was and is ?
They were not heroes . Rather , adult versions of little kids who write dirty things on the toilet walls .

Not a popular view at the present with emotions and hysteria still at fever pitch .
But a great article in the American Thinker ( apparently not an oxymoron ! ) , imo , and a view which I personally believe best captures the truth of the whole matter .
In basic terms , you do not handle deranged monsters successfully by simply goading them .
If you do , you simply get an unconnected response which any half intelligent person working with highly disturbed people would forecast and almost guarantee BEFORE HAND .


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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by boatlady on Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:52 am

Thanks for posting the link to the very interesting opinion piece.

I too share some concern about the mythologizing of a French comic paper, with which I was not previously very familiar, in the aftermath of the quite indefensible recent massacre.

The press are now giving a lot of exposure to the CH material and there have been many opinion pieces, from all shades of the political spectrum.

While perhaps not wanting to go along with the assertion that CH is an 'enemy of Western civilisation', or that the whole situation is due to the 'tyranny of the proletariat', I suspect many people would want to decry the CH style of 'humour' - it does seem to me to be puerile and rather crass - there also seems to be some evidence that the 'satire' was not even-handed - some belief systems coming in for very much more ridicule than others - which to my mind to some degree undermines the validity of the form - if you're going to ridicule all religion, then you should ridicule ALL religion equally - not just stick with the soft targets like Muslims, who already suffer various forms of ridicule and abuse throughout the 'Western world'. Ridiculing Muslims is a current fashion - nothing original about it, and, given the French history in Algeria and the conditions in the banlieus, just a bit stupid.

I think your piece rightly points out, as others have, that this is not just about the defence of 'free speech' - CH chose an editorial style that was calculated to inflame and aggravate, which is more about 'being naughty' than fearlessly speaking out against something that is wrong.

Did they deserve to be targeted by a terrorist attack for this? I would say not.
Should they have perhaps dealt more even-handedly with the theme of religion, and approached their ridicule of religious beliefs in a more sensitive and respectful manner? Perhaps
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:12 pm

For what it may be worth, the quoted passage comes from a peculiar (in the sense of unconventional) source, according to Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavkaz_Center

For a British reader, the natural comparison for Charlie Hebdo(madaire) is our cherished satirical magazine Private Eye.

Freedom of speech entails a willingness to accept the consequences. Like telling Mike Tyson his breath smells.

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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by patakace on Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:30 pm

I like your reply , Boatlady  -- and share your views .
I would like -  for discussion purposes only -  to take it further and consider whether the whole incident should be taken at face value .
Let me immediately make it clear that I have no  sufficient   evidence for such general  speculation . My approach is more akin to thinking that when something doesn't seem to be right , the chances are that it is not right .
I will start with what itself is highly contentious ---  that many apparent terrorist outrages can  be argued as False Flag incidents  
Clear examples  , as far as I am concerned  , are the Boston Marathon  bombing and the London murder of Lee Rigby .
I   add the April 10 , 2010 massacre of the Polish elite at Smolensk when Putin blew a plane out of the sky , ---much as he did recently in eastern Ukraine . However the last two examples  might require specialist reports that others on this site might not be familiar with  , for sensible discussion .
So let's keep to London and Boston with Paris added .
All three incidents involve the respective Security Services having long and detailed involvement with the perpetrators .
Keeping it brief , radicalised and unstable  individuals  were groomed and primed to carry out attacks to support far wider and deeper strategic goals.
That is , Western Govts. need to "radicalise" the opinions of  their citizens  to allow  them to initiate extreme military action and to give them ever increasing powers to spy in the name of national safety and security .Just as was done post 911 and pre Iraq
Given the mistakes riddled background among French counter terrorist actions , the Paris horror show might have  effectively been encouraged and been  effectively " allowed " by the real power brokers .
I think you can work out the details from this top line summary -- even if you find the suggested bottom line unbelievable or stark staring bonkers .
However , some people believe that the highest Western power brokers  think we  need to be back in Afghanistan , and have work to do in Iraq , Iran , Syria , Yemen , Somalia and Nigeria .ISIL needs smashing .
Therefore the best way to achieve this is to get the full backing of the citizens of USA , Canada , Australia and the bigger power units within the EU .
What better way to achieve such aims than by mind invasion via proxy with various terrorist individuals being set up as inconsequential cannon fodder .
It's also one other way to get greater control of the Internet even though the Dark Web is up to 500 times more of a problem .

etc etc etc


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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by patakace on Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:48 pm

oftenwrong wrote:For what it may be worth, the quoted passage comes from a peculiar (in the sense of unconventional) source, according to Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavkaz_Center

For a British reader, the natural comparison for Charlie Hebdo(madaire) is our cherished satirical magazine Private Eye.

Freedom of speech entails a willingness to accept the consequences.  Like telling Mike Tyson his breath smells.


You totally missed the point .
Kavkaz simply reported an article in American Thinker .
it was not their opinion piece.
I have used this site for something like seven years and can assure you that when it comes to reporting factual matters they are as accurate as anybody on the planet --- obviously for the North Caucasus region , Syria and Russia primarily .
Russia detests the site because on a daily basis it rips their propaganda machine to pieces with facts and is probably the only site on the planet which allows the West to be reminded that there is a Civil War going on which Russia cannot control -- even with the help of the lunatic Kadyrov who heads up Chechnya .
If you follow matters daily and in detail you will have noticed that Kavkaz has become " normalised " in the same way that Al Jazeera was , once people actually started to read and over a period of time .
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by boatlady on Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:36 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavkaz_Center

esoteric or what?
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by boatlady on Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:48 pm

many apparent terrorist outrages can  be argued as False Flag incidents


See, I'm always deeply unhappy about that line of reasoning - not that I think it's impossible that the CIA or MOSSAD or whoever the devil else is fomenting fear and loathing for esoteric reasons of their own - of course that's quite possible.

The reason I don't like conversations that start that way is that they lead precisely nowhere - it's just more of the blame game.

Rather that spend time (and we have so little in these short lives) wondering who to blame, why don't we spend time behaving better.

I have no influence over the CIA, MOSSAD, MI5 or indeed any other gang of spooks or nationalistic special interest group - the only thing I can influence is what I say, what I do and what I think - so, I say in my view it's incumbent on any publication that I am going to take seriously to treat its subjects of discussion, humour or polemic with a reasonable degree of sensitivity and courtesy - we may not agree with each other but  we can at least disagree with civility.
Furthermore, I say that any political party that hopes for my support better not be seeking excuses for war.
There are always better ways to resolve our differences than to send out our young men and women to kill strangers
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by patakace on Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:11 pm

Very understandable . Bl . And as for any Moderator anywhere siding with so called conspiracy thinking --- suicide .
But for me this is Virtual Reality and a change of IP et al overcomes any future worries about ridicule if Theory X turns out to be absurd .
However , we do need to recognise the desperate need for a new breed of thinkers who can solve complex problems in probability terms because we are past the stage of a linear world .
All real world problems of any significance are non- linear and can only be expressed in percentage outcome  terms and against pre defined risk levels .
The TV and News Paper  are  now useless . They will only give partial answers and reflect edited material  related to reality or  relative to the whole truth  but only  released  on a strict " need to know " basis .
Why do you think we need millions of spy camera on earth and in orbit ?
Safety and security ? Yes , in part .
But what about the other part ?
60 % of all satellites face down to Earth . Camera resolution is near perfect and better than human sight .
So now  those with the greatest power  can make  the news and relay whatever parts  they  choose .
I will give one small example .
Whenever an anomaly occurs on the ISS or Curiosity Rover on Mars , NASA / NSA  pulls the camera feeds  and/or photoshops ( they are daft enough to  often leave incriminating evidence ) or simply give no reasons ( the "technical difficulties" apology has become ludicrous ) over time .
It is a completely new world and people have not yet understood the new  bases that make up what is often presented as Facts and Evidence .
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by boatlady on Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:35 pm

lost me, now
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by patakace on Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:06 pm

Last attempt .
How do we know what are Facts ?
We do not , -----is the answer .
We are given what we are told are facts but we now cannot differentiate between the honest and the fabricated parts.
We are also not told where the real limits of an incident begin or finish .
The Paris horror show is a great example .
Certain parts are clearly true .They happened as we have been told , partly seen and partly heard about from reliable witnesses .
But what happened in the 12 months before hand in terms of grooming , encouragement and help by omission of some security checks and protocols . Perhaps planned and deliberate .
And what is the possible larger picture --- is the West being manipulated by False Flags for a different and hidden long term agenda ?
Are we being primed for greater Internet restrictions and checks ?
Do the power brokers need legitimacy for boots on the ground in Yemen soon , for example ?
All speculative and just a possible example rather than a seriously presented hypothesis .
Its all about smoke and mirrors and matters which make inter party politics seem trivial , imo.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by boatlady on Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:13 pm

As I said before, those are not useful questions - in my opinion, they lead nowhere, and I choose not to waste my time on them.

Leaving all that paranoid stuff to philosophy undergrads and conspiracy theorists.

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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by patakace on Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:32 pm

Oh dear .
It's the way the world now works though you appear not to have noticed .
But I do understand that most people cannot handle too much change .
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by polyglide on Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:02 am

Dr. Sheldon,
On reflection, I tend to agree with you.

If anyone cannot uphold their belief against all commers without resorting to violence or other unacceptable practices then in my view it has little foundation.

regards.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:40 pm

This may save time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conspiracy_theories
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:51 pm

The question inherent in this particular discussion is whether there can ever be an expression of opinion which receives universal approval.

This week, many British motorists will have been saying how pleased they are with the lower price of petrol. But they would possibly have avoided mentioning that if visiting Aberdeen.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by patakace on Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:29 am

One of the Flat Earthers I see , OR .
Isn't having a closed and intolerant mind the main problem suffered from by Fundamentalists -- be they Christian or Islamic ?
I have been on Forums where individuals have denied the possibility of faster than light travel despite the scientific proof to the contrary .
Yes . In this day and age !
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

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