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Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

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Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by witchfinder on Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

French satirical magazine "Charlie Hebdo" has published pictures of the prophet Mohamed as a cartoon character in its latest issue, the magazine also stated that the prophet was the editor in chief for that particular issue, the result is the petrol bombing and destruction of the magazines offices in Paris.

It is strictly forbidden in Islam for anyone to make or create images of the prophet Mohamed, to do so is regarded by Muslims to be disrespectful and is an insult, therefore one has to ask - why ?, why did this magazine feel it necessary to knowingly and deliberately upset a section of French society. ?

Personaly I am a none believer, I am from a Christian background, and though I will frequently criticise Islam, the Catholic Church, Jewish hard liners and American bible bashers, I would not go so far as to purposely disrespect or poke fun at someone elses beliefs, this is called tolerance.

I am glad we live in the United Kingdom where the preaching or publishing or promotion of religious hatred and intolerance is forbiden by law - in some nations you are allowed to preach hatred and hide behind the wall called "freedom of speech", in some nations there is no hiding place.

We have seen the reactions of some Muslims before when this has happened, it begs the question - was this magazine looking for publicity knowing they would attract attention, perhaps their sales figures were down.





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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by stuart torr on Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:57 pm

clearly you did not read OWs post Polyglide,read and think again.

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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:09 pm

polyglide wrote:Stu,
    boatlady's statement could only be taken as wrong in any way if it implied being a Jew was in any way objectional.

    It is like saying I would not vote for the Joe Brown the baker.

The post was a quote, not a statement by Boatlady. The quote was clearly pejorative so the adjective could only be meant as an added derogation.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by boatlady on Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:39 pm

I am inclined to think that what makes the word a derogation in this case is that the term 'Jew' seems to be being co-opted as part of the reason for not voting for Miliband - as if Jewishness places him in that class of people that one does not vote for - which does rather take us into the realms of racism or anti-Semitism perhaps.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by stuart torr on Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:51 pm

That is what I said boatlady getting racist.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri May 01, 2015 8:30 am

It is strictly forbidden in Islam for anyone to make or create images of the prophet Mohamed, to do so is regarded by Muslims to be disrespectful and is an insult, therefore one has to ask - why ?

Perhaps the magazine feel that a person's beliefs do not entitle them to dictate to others what they can say, do, or express?

I most certainly think that a person has a right to believe as they wish, but this right doesn't grant them ANY more rights.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by stuart torr on Fri May 01, 2015 3:53 pm

Certainly not to dictate to others what they can and cannot do or say or believe, I believe that is what you are saying is it not Sheldon?
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by polyglide on Tue May 05, 2015 11:36 am

Boatlady,
Anyone has the right to not vote for anyone for any reason they feel fit, if the sanctimonious want to put their own interpretation on matters then it proves they are the predudiced ones.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by polyglide on Tue May 05, 2015 11:38 am

sorry about the spelling.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue May 05, 2015 1:14 pm

I'm not sure you've understood Boatlady's post at all. No one here has posted anything remotely prejudiced either. The quote in Boatlady's post was a pejorative comment on a politician who also happened to be Jewish, in using the word "Jew" in the sentence it was clearly meant as a slur.

Perhaps you feel this is not the case, but you have offered no explanation so who knows why you're contradicted and insulting other posters without justification and in such a punctilious fashion?
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by polyglide on Fri May 08, 2015 11:34 am

boatlady,
I would not worry about anyone who does not know the difference between a quote and a statement.

Statement : a definate and clear expression in either speach or writing.

Quote : recite from book or play etc; etc;
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri May 08, 2015 12:03 pm

polyglide wrote:boatlady,
           I would not worry about anyone who does not know the difference between a quote and a statement.

           Statement : a definate and clear expression in either speach or writing.

           Quote : recite from book or play etc; etc;

Only you claimed it was boatlady's statement, when in fact it was a quote. So why are offering everyone else definitions they're already aware of?

As pointless as you're pretence of addressing your posts to boatlady when it's quite obvious they're not. Wink
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri May 08, 2015 8:03 pm

Post by polyglide Today at 12:34 pm
boatlady,  I would not worry about anyone who does not know the difference between a quote and a statement.
Statement : a definate and clear expression in either speach or writing.
Quote : recite from book or play etc; etc;

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:09 pm
The post was a quote, not a statement by Boatlady. The quote was clearly pejorative so the adjective could only be meant as an added derogation.

Post by polyglide on Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:57 am
Stu,
boatlady's statement could only be taken as wrong in any way if it implied being a Jew was in any way objectional. It is like saying I would not vote for the Joe Brown the baker.

That sunshine, is a slam dunk, when will you ever learn to show a little humility when you make a mistake instead of pretentious obfuscation.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:26 pm

Another interesting quote that seemed to me to answer this idea in the opening title that ideas or beliefs should be free from insults, comes from Arthur Schopenhaur:

"What a bad conscience religion must have is to be judged by the fact that it is forbidden under pain of such severe punishment to mock it"

For me this encapsulates my own thoughts very well, that any idea or beliefs that need to forbid criticism with threats of violence, whether it be physical or metaphysical, are in deep trouble, as they're either demonstrably weak or palpably absurd, or perhaps both.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:53 pm

How can Freedom of Speech ever exclude a Listener's freedom to feel insulted by what is being said?

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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:15 pm

oftenwrong wrote:How can Freedom of Speech ever exclude a Listener's freedom to feel insulted by what is being said?


It can't, but then anyone who shares any idea or belief runs the risk that people will respond with something they may be offended by. As Stephen Fry said, so fkn what?

They can be offended if they want, but taking offence doesn't entitle the offended to anything. Unless they have been defamed of course.
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Re: Freedom of expression vs. freedom from insults

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