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2017 general election

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2017 general election

Post by astradt1 on Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:03 am

First topic message reminder :

Buzz phrases

So we now have the start of the 2017 general election campaign and the buzz phrases have started to come out.

It is likely to be a very dirty campaign with lots of negative Buzz Phrases from all parties and many of these will be designed to stick in the minds of voters to sway them.

We will have the MP's doing the rounds of the TV News shows giving their daily talking points which will be littered the phases given to them by party election coordinators.

Here is the first one I have heard today:

19/04/17...Coalition of Chaos.........Theresa May....repeated on Sky News by Karen Bradley....
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by boatlady on Wed May 03, 2017 10:40 pm

well mentioned, OW - would be easy to forget among all the brou-ha-ha about the GE

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Re: 2017 general election

Post by Ivan on Wed May 03, 2017 10:44 pm

Your vote in a council election usually counts for more, partly because your council ward is much smaller than your parliamentary constituency, and also because the turnout is inevitably much smaller than in a general election.

Incidentally, I've never managed to vote for a winning candidate in a general election, and I certainly won't be doing so this time (in 2015, the Tory nonentity in my constituency took 57.3% of the vote, with UKIP second on 14%). Mad
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by Phil Hornby on Fri May 05, 2017 5:37 pm

It has been clear to me for some time that unless there are efforts by the parties who oppose the Tories to form some sort of coalition that we can 'look forward' to a Tory government ( and general dominance in local politics) for some very considerable time.

If those parties don't make the attempt, it tells us that they have no real interest in dismantling the Tory evil.

Given the ongoing propaganda onslaught in favour of the Tories - which the public lap up willingly - the only hope is that , in the fullness of time, the Tories get complacent and even more arrogant and start to show their true colours as they did in the sleaze-ridden 1990s...
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by oftenwrong on Fri May 05, 2017 7:27 pm

Bookmakers are familiar with the tendency of punters to "climb on board" when popular support goes onto a particular horse. Even when they quote odds-on, the silly money continues to accumulate with only a slight chance of seeing much more than just your money back.

The results of local-council elections reflect a similar position. Voters want to be associated with success, and have aligned with the Tory machine. UKIP having achieved it's one-and-only purpose, is written-off. Obviously.

So the forthcoming General Election is still about whether Britain will have Theresa May as Prime Minister, or Jeremy Corbyn.

What is yet unknown is just how much genuine popular support each of those individuals can summon on June 8th.

Because that's what the Public want - gladiatorial contest. It's not over until it's over.

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Re: 2017 general election

Post by Ivan on Sat May 06, 2017 3:13 pm

Instead of hiding in closed workplaces and remote buildings with a hand-picked bunch of supporters, the so-called 'strong' Theresa May should be answering these questions in a public debate with Jeremy Corbyn, and the supine media should be challenging her to do so:-

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Re: 2017 general election

Post by oftenwrong on Sat May 06, 2017 6:01 pm

Cameron's re-election campaign two years ago was similarly choreographed in safe places stuffed with loyal Party subjects, with only a few carefully chosen additional locations occupied by the Great Unwashed.

Probably a wise choice. Trump won't be visiting either Mexico or Canada any time soon.
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat May 06, 2017 7:59 pm

I tend to think it would have been helpful if the Opposition had managed to get some of these messages to obtain greater prominence.

Silly old me...
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by oftenwrong on Sat May 06, 2017 11:16 pm

It's probably disingenuous of me to blame the right-wing press yet again, poor lambs - they try so hard to give Jeremy Corbyn and Labour a fair deal.

But in reality how could "Opposition have managed to get some of these messages to obtain greater prominence" without painting it on a bus?

The above message (and similar material) was and continues to be, available on social media Twitter, Facebook etc. but for obvious reasons not often in National newspapers or broadcasting.
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A straw in the wind?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun May 07, 2017 2:28 pm

The question derives from American experience of destructive tornadoes, that can begin with no more than a breath of air from a changed direction. Which makes people cautious.

The Sunday papers today are exactly that - "cautious". Predictably, the right-wing Press bellows about 563 local council seats gained by Conservatives at the expense of Labour and UKIP. (All from a turnout of about only one-in-three of those entitled to vote.) At a General Election that could be expected to be around the 60% mark. But yet, and yet .. there is no triumphalism. No commentator seeks to overlay June 8th. with the same pattern of voting. What will Labour voters do now that UKIP seems to have been eliminated? What will lapsed supporters of Labour do when their only alternative is to abstain or vote directly for the traditional class-enemy?

Theresa May is confident of winning the next round, but nobody is using the word "landslide". Tory government remembers well a previous female PM, but not with undiluted enthusiasm.

There is still everything to play for.


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Re: 2017 general election

Post by boatlady on Sun May 07, 2017 5:53 pm

I do hope you're right OW.
Everything seems so depressing at present

Our local Labour party candidate, selected on Monday, was rushed to hospital late Friday with suspected appendicitis - this is not a good start
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by Ivan on Tue May 09, 2017 9:49 am


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Re: 2017 general election

Post by oftenwrong on Tue May 09, 2017 7:40 pm

Summarised, the question that should be answered on June 8th. is, "Who is looking after the little guy?"

All I can see from the election campaign so far is a phalanx of people saying, "Vote for ME!"
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by boatlady on Wed May 10, 2017 7:52 am

not convinced by the advertised Labour policies?
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by oftenwrong on Wed May 10, 2017 11:01 am

Preaching to the choir.

It isn't people like Cutting Edge readers that need convincing.

Deprived areas where jobs vanished under Thatcher are apparently persuaded that voting for the traditional class enemy is now a good idea.

I have no idea how you overcome such attitudes with simple logic, but there's still a distinct possibility that May's plan for world domination will collapse under its own weight of hubris.
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by boatlady on Wed May 10, 2017 3:20 pm

Know what you're saying OW - working class myself and I'd believed I never moved far from my roots - but I sometimes wonder if I'm speaking the same language of some people I meet

I am appalled at the active hatred I hear expressed about socialist ideas (you know, stuff about free healthcare, adequate education and housing for all - not even the radical stuff like nationalising utilities and abolishing Trident)
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by Ivan on Thu May 11, 2017 11:28 pm


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Re: 2017 general election

Post by boatlady on Fri May 12, 2017 11:49 am

I see today one of the popular papers is printing an interview with Theresa May where she 'opens up' about the sadness of her inability to have children - no note of bathos it seems will be neglected Basketball
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by Ivan on Fri May 12, 2017 1:31 pm

Corbyn’s manifesto shows us that there isn’t just one type of ‘populism’ in politics any more

From an article by Rachel Shabi:-

"What is the left to do, in the midst of an election campaign cast in the political mood of Brexit, narrow nationalism and a bogus-Blitz spirit? Britain’s snap election, with its looming vision of a juggernaut Tory Party sucking up UKIP voters and veering ever-rightwards with regressive Little England homilies, has sent many into despair. But it’s also shaping up as the latest challenge for the populist left trying to face down a rightist surge – incarnations of which we’ve seen play out across Europe.

Populism typically gets a bad rap, as analysts either assume it is under sole ownership of the far-right, or that people-driven policies in either direction are extreme and bad. The left counters that the far-right feasts off a population feeling ignored and neglected by remote politicians, economic despair, disillusion (often cast as voter apathy) and resentment at a tiny elite that increasingly profits while the rest of us struggle.

The populist left in the UK, as elsewhere, casts decades of ravaging neoliberalism as the source of both economic hardship and public despair with politics; in this context, centrism’s tinkering around the edges while subscribing to the same economic playbook, isn’t going to cut it – and also perpetuates the feeling often heard on doorsteps that, whoever you vote for, nothing changes.

Of course, none of this is to ignore the signs, the polls, the Brexit-induced rupture in political allegiances, the current ratings for Corbyn or the depressing electoral prognosis for the left. None of this is to suggest anything other than a tough fight. But if anything can halt Britain’s self-defeating and self-limiting march to a regressive right tune, it’s a populist left platform that is our best hope."

For the rest of the article:-
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by oftenwrong on Fri May 12, 2017 7:23 pm

Glass half-full? Or half-empty? The man who complains of having no shoes can justifiably be mocked by a man who has no feet.

Jeremy Corbyn is assailed from all sides as "unelectable", and sneered for his adherence to the unrealistic assertion that people are worth more than money.
The ranks of the "quite comfortable, thanks" are quite correct in fearing him. The only mystery is how they can think that the disadvantaged could be persuaded to vote against their own self-interest.
How is such a thing even possible, never mind derisory?
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by Ivan on Fri May 12, 2017 11:23 pm


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Re: 2017 general election

Post by witchfinder on Sat May 13, 2017 11:48 am

Some members of the group will be aware that its a long time since I have posted anything in Cutting Edge, mainly because of my dissolusionment of Labour under Jeremy Corbyn, whom I felt was the wrong choice of leader simply because in my sincerely held opinion it would mean defeat.

With some hesitation, and after much thought, I have concluded that the best way for me to vote in the general election, is to vote Labour ( Yes - you did read that correct Ivan ), but not because I am overtly enthusiastic about Mr Corbyn, because Ime not, its mainly because I detest the Tories, and Labour is the second party in Scarborough & Whitby, though sadly I doubt very much it will make much difference to the outcome in this neck of the woods.

Interestingly, talking to a few mates last night in The Buffs lodge meeting, a few dissolusioned Labour voters said to me that they were having second thoughts about NOT voting Labour, and that in actual fact they quite liked most of what had leaked out from the manifesto.

One good friend who is a member of the Lib Dems said that he will go and support / canvass for his party, but not here, instead somewhere where the Lib Dems actually have a chance of winning, and he would probably vote Labour because here where his vote is because they are the second party here.

Something I feel which is extremely important - almost all the Labour moderates, call us Blairite's if you want to, will be voting Labour, and I think those that have constantly hurled abusive, offensive and highly insulting remarks towards Tony Blair and New Labour need to know this fact, their numbers are many, their votes do count, and seeing what I read on the "moderates" or Progress websites and Facebook groups, they are all voting Labour.

I do not believe Labour are going to win this election, so it is with some regret that I dont think Mr Corbyns supporters are going to be in a position of claiming "it was them that won it", because I still believe the electorate wont support the party in enough numbers.

What I do hope, and what I feel is possible, indeed probable, is that opposition to the Tories, the deteriorating NHS, hard Brexit, and everything else we oppose the Tories for, will in the end bring enough people round to produce a different result than what is predicted, it might not be the landslide everyone is talking about.

By far the biggest turnaround is the commitment to renewing Britains nuclear deterrant, this should help a lot, but also the renationalisation of railways, which is actually popular amongst many Tory voters, plus many other policy ideas which asre coming out.

I am not a committed Socialist, I think Socialism is finished, its toxic, but I am intelligent enough to know that a Corbyn style government would be immensely better than any Tory government, and its the only feasable and realistic option I have, so for the sake of The Many not The Few, and for the sake of all who have suffered under this government, and who desperately need a decent home, a secure job, a properly funded health service, I cannot do any anything other than vote Labour and then hope.

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Re: 2017 general election

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat May 13, 2017 5:38 pm

Wise words in my view, withchfinder - and very close to my own position...
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by boatlady on Sun May 14, 2017 10:47 pm

Praising with faint damns - curse the pair of you - but thanks for voting Labour xx
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by oftenwrong on Sun May 14, 2017 11:04 pm

Even disillusioned Labour voters are going to have to hold their noses and vote Corbyn on June 8th.

The alternative is too grim to contemplate.
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by Ivan on Mon May 15, 2017 10:56 pm

Jeremy Corbyn addressing one or two voters in Leeds today.......... Shocked

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Re: 2017 general election

Post by Chas Peeps on Tue May 16, 2017 11:29 am

sickchip wrote:

The decision people need to be brave enough to make is to vote either Labour or Tory........forget the other parties - wasted votes that will simply put the Tories back in power.

If you dislike May and her Tory government so much the only realistic way to get rid of them is to vote Labour.

Labour did nothing to change the First Past the Post voting system in 13 years of power. Now it is reaping the eternal whirlwind, something I predicted while a member of the Labour Campaign for Electoral Reform over 20 years ago. In 1955, over 95% of voters chose Conservative or Labour. In 2015 it had fallen to 65%. The number of marginal Lab/Con Con/Lab seats had fallen from 166 to 108 (out of 650) in the same period. In 2015, it only took 25,000 votes to elect each SNP MP, 34,000 each Tory, 40,000 each Labour, 300,000+ each Lib Dem, 1.2m+ each Green and 3m+ each UKIP. The system cannot and does not guarantee a clear winner (coalition 2010) nor a government with any legitimacy (Tories with 37% of vote share in 2015). The SNP is the biggest winner under our voting system and Labour paid a very high price for its 1.3 decades of inaction.

Two seismic events have hit Labour. Firstly it has lost Scotland (40 seats down, no sign of getting them back). Secondly, it bled out votes to UKIP in its heartlands in 2015 and worse looks like losing most of those votes to the Tories in 2017. The Party has been bitterly and very publicly divided between the majority of the PLP and the membership backed leadership team. Voters never like supporting publicly divided parties. Kinnock lost in 1992, Major definitely did not 'win' it.

In my opinion, the General Election will be Labour's last as a united party and I predict Labour will lose badly. Our country needs wide constitutional and electoral reform. It needs coalition and consensus politics not the Zero Sum Game rubbish we are being fed post EURef. We won't get it. We will get a Bluekip Government, a One Party State that will shrink to England and Wales and a dividing / fragmenting progressive opposition in disarray. It is too late to change it. They won, we lost. They are not going to give us our ball back. Bleating on about other principled political parties is not going to help, it's just a symptom of the Two Party disease that has afflicted our country for too long.

I have never been a quitter, always a fighter with decades of political struggle behind me. In June 2016, a 4% majority decided to inflict lasting damage on our country and hand it over the right on a plate. Between 2015 and 2017, the Labour Party put itself before our country. In 2019, I predict that Scotland will vote narrowly to break away from Brexit rumpUK and that a tragic return to a social and political crisis will be developing in Northern Ireland.

I implore you not to speak harshly of other parties. Quietly behind the scenes, a lot has happened. Where I live, Our local Green Party decided to only select one out of a possible three candidates. The Labour MP in one of the two seats we decided not to contest kept thanking us for standing aside. Our pityful 1200 votes in 2015 may just be enough to help him hold his marginal seat. It was done and privately communicated to the local Labour Party, no public fanfare and no publicity seeking. Labour could learn a little humility itself from this process.

For the first time in my life, I'm thinking of buying and retreating into a polytunnel. Sure it will help me to grow more of the produce that will getting more expensive in the shops as Brexit indiscriminately bites into us all whether we voted for it or not. Most importantly, I can try to lose myself in there and forget the nightmare that appears to be unfolding all around me. Perhaps I will emerge with my crops to find out it was nothing more than that. Or maybe I'll choose to stay in there so I never have to find out.
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by oftenwrong on Tue May 16, 2017 12:20 pm

The Counsel of Despair doesn't ring a bell with me, or for the people I know who continue to support The Labour Party led by its elected Leader.

The fact that "Conservative" has morphed into "May" for this election campaign speaks volumes. Although there is quite a lot of whistling to keep up their spirits, the Tories are very very wary of a surprise revolt by a decidedly bolshy Electorate. The consternation caused by last June's referendum result could well have encouraged those unhappy citizens to throw all the rest of their toys out of the pram now they've been given another opportunity. The masses really do not like the way Government has been conducted during the past seven years.



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Re: 2017 general election

Post by Chas Peeps on Tue May 16, 2017 12:46 pm

Over the next three years we'll see whether I'm more oftenwrong than you are!
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by boatlady on Tue May 16, 2017 5:03 pm

I just wish the election was over - I can't handle all this grief and stress
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by oftenwrong on Wed May 17, 2017 8:00 pm

Laurel and Hardy, Abbot & Costello, Jewell and Warris, Morecambe and Wise, Pete and Dud, Two Ronnies ....

and NOW:

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It's the Hammond and May Show !!
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2017 election

Post by oftenwrong on Thu May 18, 2017 7:11 pm

Today, the politicians stopped lying to us.

Theresa May's Tory manifesto makes it clear:  You're on your own.
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by boatlady on Thu May 18, 2017 9:36 pm

That manifesto is quite shockingly honest - either they really think everyone is a brain dead idiot - or they want to lose (I'm now going to have actual nightmares about option 1)
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John Crace reports on the Tory manifesto

Post by oftenwrong on Fri May 19, 2017 11:00 am

Close your eyes and believe in your strong and stable Supreme Leader

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Re: 2017 general election

Post by Ivan on Fri May 19, 2017 2:39 pm

That article by John Crace is very good, and I also liked a very long comment underneath it from someone calling themselves ‘KimSaFi’. On the assumption that, once published, ‘The Guardian’ owns the copyright, I’ll just post an extract from it:-

As she consolidates her unchallenged power, Mrs May’s utter contempt for the electorate is very clearly evident. She does not feel obligated to share her plan for Brexit or explain the policies for which she claims total ownership with disingenuous language dominated by “I”, “my” and “me”. Despite her self-righteous rants regarding the ambitious and fully costed Labour manifesto, May clearly saw no necessity to explain how she would finance her campaign pledges. Confident in her vice-grip command of the vote, the classic Tory pandering to the elderly can be recklessly abandoned as her false promises must now target deceiving a new, equally gullible, voting demographic.

From Mrs May’s rude and arrogant disdain for foreign leaders to the disgraceful refusal to debate her fitness for the job of supreme leader, we should be seriously alarmed, but her alt-right media backers can be thoroughly relied upon to shield her from any criticism. Demonstrating all the disquieting attributes of dictatorship, May barely even bothers to consult her so called “team” of dutifully compliant lackeys. We should not forget that Hitler was voted into power by a population stirred up by jingoistic nationalist ideology and racist scapegoating.

It does not have to be this way: we could still vote to kick Mrs May out of Downing Street before her cruel dictates target another vulnerable sector of our society and plunge more of our citizens into poverty. The misery of Mayharm is not inevitable if we just use our democratic right to vote for a progressive and hopeful future while we still have this option available to us.


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Re: 2017 general election

Post by TriMonk3y on Fri May 19, 2017 4:45 pm

boatlady wrote:That manifesto is quite shockingly honest - either they really think everyone is a brain dead idiot - or they want to lose (I'm now going to have actual nightmares about option 1)

I think the reality is that they know they can't lose, so they might as well get as much regressive policy mandated as possible, because half the country would vote for a donkey at the moment if you pinned a blue rosette on it.
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by Ivan on Fri May 19, 2017 5:35 pm

Will the turkeys still vote for Christmas? Probably.  headbang

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Re: 2017 general election

Post by oftenwrong on Fri May 19, 2017 7:24 pm

Choose your cliché: Cutting the Gordian Knot (Classic Greek); Crossing the Rubicon (Classic Latin) or If rape is inevitable, lie back and enjoy it. (Classic schoolboy).

Of course Theresa May called a snap election because she thought it could be won. Probably she was correct, but two years previously Cameron had expected to find himself in another coalition situation, so his Manifesto contained all sorts of positions that could be surrendered if necessary.

Nothing is settled until June 8th. In the meantime, Trump could resign, Iran could elect a moderate leader, the Emperor of Japan could abdicate and an unstable British Electorate could embrace Anarchy on the day.


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Re: 2017 general election

Post by TriMonk3y on Sat May 20, 2017 7:45 am

John Crace in the Guardian today -

"The more the Conservative campaign turns into the triumphal march of the zombie apocalypse, the more Labour’s resembles the night of the living dead. The odds against them are just too great. If it was revealed that Theresa May had axed her parents to death in a psychopathic rage, there’s a fair chance the Daily Mail would declare the double murder to be definitive proof of her strong and stable leadership and the Supreme Leader would be returned to power with an even bigger landslide majority on 8 June."

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Re: 2017 general election

Post by boatlady on Sat May 20, 2017 11:00 am

I really don't class the Guardian as a left wing (or even an unbiased) organ any more - I think the editorial stance is firmly neo-liberal
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by oftenwrong on Sat May 20, 2017 2:30 pm

When four-fifths of the national media are opposed, one may take comfort from the merely neutral.
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Re: 2017 general election

Post by Ivan on Sat May 20, 2017 10:29 pm


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Nye Bevan would have liked that!  Smile

I’m certainly never far away from them. As I’ve said before, I haven't ever voted for a winning candidate in a general election and I won’t be doing so this time. In 2015, my local Tory received 32,627 votes, UKIP came second with 7,969 votes, followed by the Lib Dems with 6,647, Labour with 6,499 and the Greens with 2,198.

I said “local Tory”, but that isn’t quite correct. When Francis Maude suddenly decided to stand down shortly before the 2015 election, a company adviser and member of the Countryside Alliance was parachuted in from Buckinghamshire and handed this ‘rotten borough’ on a plate. I’ve never seen him or heard anything about him and wouldn’t recognise him if I saw him in the street. He’s never knocked on my door, but that’s probably just as well and better for my blood pressure.

Our Labour candidate for this election is called Susannah Brady. She was born locally, but of course she doesn’t stand a chance. If he’d still been alive, the Tories could have put up Ian Brady as their candidate here and he’d have won by a landslide. No doubt most of our local pensioners will dutifully trot along to the polling stations and vote to deprive themselves of their winter fuel allowances, the ‘triple lock’ on their pensions, and all but £100,000 worth of their assets should they need care, even in their own homes. That's an awful lot of turkeys wanting to precipitate Christmas. No
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Re: 2017 general election

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