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Which commandments do you think are superior; Yahweh’s or Gnostic Christianity’s?

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Which commandments do you think are superior; Yahweh’s or Gnostic Christianity’s?

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:38 pm

Which commandments do you think are superior; Yahweh’s or Gnostic Christianity’s?

You may use whatever set of commandments you think Yahweh gave. There are a number of renditions.

As for the Gnostic commandments, I offer the following.

1. You shall place no commandments above these unless proven to be morally superior.
2. You shall value all people as equal before the law. The inequality of outcome is punishment enough of itself.
3. You shall live by the golden rule and respond with reciprocity of harm or care to what is done to you.
4. Use Gnosis and put logic and reason and their proofs above faith, which by its nature has no proofs, logic or reason.
5. You shall leave the environment in a better condition than what is given to you as an inheritance to your next generation.
6. You shall not impoverish the next generation and live according to the means you produce as their labor and wealth is theirs and not yours to squander.

Gnostic Christianity and free thinking lost the God wars when the Orthodox Church decimated us and burned most of our scriptures. I think that Gnostic Christians had a superior set of commandments then as well as now. Those commandments were not only meant for seekers after a God but also a guide to secular law. Both secular law and Christianity seemed to ignore the second commandment of equality till our modern era. As a Gnostic Christian, I ask (rhetorically), what took the world so long to catch up to Gnostic Christian thinking and what is Islam and other backwards thinking people waiting for.

Many have a problem with the 10 commandments given by Yahweh so I thought I would see if there is a consensus of thought on the Gnostic Christian ideology as compared to the Christian ideology. The main complaints I see are that Yahweh’s commandments have created a Christian ideology that denies gays and women equality. I think all souls to be created equal and thus deserving of equal human statue and citizenship.

Others as seen in these two link have their own views and I would add that I think Yahweh’s no divorce policy, --- which Jesus confirms. --- and Yahweh’s policy of accepting bribes, ransoms or sacrifices (these are all analogue) to alter his usual and moral policy punishing the guilty and not the innocent, --- to the immoral policy of punishing the innocent instead of the guilty, as exemplified by his accepting Jesus as a sacrifice to save sinners whom God himself created to be sinners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u3z69YpLx0#t=100

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfGRN4HVrQ

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Regards
DL
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Re: Which commandments do you think are superior; Yahweh’s or Gnostic Christianity’s?

Post by Jsmythe on Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:00 am

Hi G,

When an individual is still continuously not treating people equally by various bad deeds  stealing , physicaly abuse - murder, slavery and so on.

Would you add or amend the gnostic comandments if ; People did not follow the laws and continued to do bad things on the detriment of other people's well being? What would be your deterent to doing evil things if the commandements were still ignored?

With the 10 commandments that were not formed from the very beginning in Genesis ... these commandments came about later in the context that these new laws were needed at that time during exodus for the purpose that the Israelites turned their backs to God. Woshipping idols and all the bad things that come with the tradition.



(In the video by AronRa his erroneous contextual interpretation is sort of misguided imho)
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Re: Which commandments do you think are superior; Yahweh’s or Gnostic Christianity’s?

Post by Greatest I am on Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:02 pm

Nicely put.

The rule # 3 should take care of the evil acts you speak of as it asks that we use harm/care as our reciprocal response.

If harm is done to us, we should not reward that harm with good as that rewards evil actions. Harm must be matched with harm so that we can protect ourselves.

As to AronRa, on which commandment is your criticism focused on? Or was yours just an all encompassing criticism?

Regards
DL
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If you have ever had negative thoughts about Yahweh, you are close to a Gnostic Christian.

Post by Greatest I am on Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:11 pm

If you have ever had negative thoughts about Yahweh, you are close to a Gnostic Christian.

You have shown that you can think freely and have a decent moral sense as compared to Christians and their less than moral sense that allows them to adore a genocidal God.

John Lennon, “It seems to me that the only true Christians were the Gnostics,”

In fact, many think that the best Christians are Gnostic Christians. Even if you are an atheist, you are likely a better Christian than most Christians as their morals have been corrupted by their beliefs enough to have them adore a vile genocidal God that Gnostic Christians call demiurge. In a sense, not that she exists, but demiurge is equivalent to Satan.

Please remember that Gnostic Christians so not hold any supernatural beliefs and religiously speaking, create much more peaceful people than Christians. The Cathars were a good example of this truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ptNcSYo7k4

http://thegodabovegod.com/difference-gnostic-christian/

http://thegodabovegod.com/gnostic/

Are you close to a Gnostic Christian in how you can think freely and morally?

Regards
DL
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Re: Which commandments do you think are superior; Yahweh’s or Gnostic Christianity’s?

Post by trevorw2539 on Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:52 pm

As all the commandments are sourced and adapted from earlier religions, I guess the answer is neither.
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Re: Which commandments do you think are superior; Yahweh’s or Gnostic Christianity’s?

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:55 pm

trevorw2539 wrote:As all the commandments are sourced and adapted from earlier religions, I guess the answer is neither.

The source does not speak to the veracity of what is given.

Strange that you cannot evaluate the morality of two given systems.

Usually only Christians are that shallow in their thinking.

Regards
DL
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Re: Which commandments do you think are superior; Yahweh’s or Gnostic Christianity’s?

Post by Jsmythe on Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:13 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Nicely put.

The rule # 3 should take care of the evil acts you speak of as it asks that we use harm/care as our reciprocal response.

If harm is done to us, we should not reward that harm with good as that rewards evil actions. Harm must be matched with harm so that we can protect ourselves.

As to AronRa, on which commandment is your criticism focused on? Or was yours just an all encompassing criticism?

Regards
DL

Oh yes # 3 , a good inclusion you put there, which is quite similar to the early covenant with Noah:

Genesis 9

5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.

6 Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.


As to AronRa ... It is more his version of interpretation , which is his right to have that opinion of course.
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Re: Which commandments do you think are superior; Yahweh’s or Gnostic Christianity’s?

Post by Greatest I am on Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:54 pm

Laughing  Not quite turning the other cheek that. Oh well, another contradiction. What a poorly put together book.

Your biblical knowledge is superior to most believers. That is often the case with those who critique Christianity.

You are correct about AronRa of course. I just wondered where you did not agree with him.

Regards
DL
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Re: Which commandments do you think are superior; Yahweh’s or Gnostic Christianity’s?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:48 pm

Greatest I am wrote:

The source does not speak to the veracity of what is given.

I'm not sure that's entirely true, if the source is widely touted as being an omniscient deity then the fact it's commandments appear to be plagiarised and human in origin is compelling evidence they lack the veracity intended. Personally I don't find the ten commandments very useful at all. The first four are different ways for an alleged deity to demand the saccharine worship of it's created 'pets', and so are nothing to do with morality at all.

Honouring your parents has to be qualified and not absolute, as it is axiomatic that some parents don't deserve to be honoured. Moratoriums on theft and murder are evidenced as ubiquitous in human morality and societies that long predate Abrahamic religions, so hardly suggest the source as divine here. Committing adultery can be immoral I'd say, but humans  are fallible and the idea that it is deserving of being tortured, let alone for eternity after you die, is absurdly 'immoral' IMHO, far more immoral than adultery ironically, since we measure the morality fo an act by the consequences it produces and the relative suffering here of eternally torturing someone as opposed to cheating on them, speaks for itself. Not lying about others is probably as profoundly moral as the ten commandments get, without resorting to the obvious by prohibiting murder and theft, though these have not stopped adherents from doing both of course, throughout a long and bloody history, starting with many such narratives in the bible, and moving on through the crusades, the inquisition, countless wars, the virulent antisemitism of Nazism, not forgetting the appalling slave trade, and all often citing canonical scripture as justification.

The last three are an attempt at thought control, as absurdly pointless as they are immoral. Why shouldn't people covet what ever they choose, we all do this all the time, it is harmless in and of itself and probably part of nature to covet things we see. To quote Matt Dillahunty "Why shouldn't I covet my neighbour's ass, especially if they have a nice ass"?

From Wikipedia

"The Ten Commandments form the basis of Jewish law, stating God's universal and timeless standard of right and wrong"

I find that claim absurd, for the reasons stated. They're not timeless for a start, they're not universal either, many human societies do not view adultery as immoral, nor monogamy as a necessary ingredient of marriage. Most of the commandments have nothing to do with human concepts of right and wrong as I stated above, but are arbitrary religious dogma, derived "allegedly" from divine diktat.

If we are capable of reasoning what is moral and what not we needn't be given moral absolutes (even from a deity) if we are not then we have method of determining what is moral or not anyway, so we would be unable to tell if the ten commandments are moral.

Personally I'm in agreement with Sam Harris "The Moral Landscape", that morality and well being are inextricably linked. Though this is a subjective moral claim it is pretty hard to argue against the idea that best moral systems should maximise emotional and physical well being. One this is agreed we can use reason and empirical evidence to determine how moral actions are.
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Re: Which commandments do you think are superior; Yahweh’s or Gnostic Christianity’s?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:06 pm

Oh yes # 3 , a good inclusion you put there, which is quite similar to the early covenant with Noah:

Genesis 9

5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.

6 Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.

Unless God directly sanctions killing and the shedding of blood of course, which the bible
indicates he does quite often.

Exodus 22

"18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

Deuteronomy 17

"17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Deuteronomy 13:

"8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death,"

There are many many more of course...
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Re: Which commandments do you think are superior; Yahweh’s or Gnostic Christianity’s?

Post by Greatest I am on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:42 am

[quote="Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD"]


I'm not sure that's entirely true, if the source is widely touted as being an omniscient deity then the fact it's commandments appear to be plagiarised and human in origin is compelling evidence they lack the veracity intended.

The veracity of not stealing or killing is obvious, regardless of who says it.

We do not know who put those words first and yes, they have been plagiarized by most religions.

Whatever commandments, which is a poor word as they are only moral suggestions, you believe have veracity, have likely also been plagiarized from older sources.

We do not really care who came up with them when we accept them as worthy to be followed.

Regards
DL
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Re: Which commandments do you think are superior; Yahweh’s or Gnostic Christianity’s?

Post by Greatest I am on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:47 am

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
Oh yes # 3 , a good inclusion you put there, which is quite similar to the early covenant with Noah:

Genesis 9

5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.

6 Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.

Unless God directly sanctions killing and the shedding of blood of course, which the bible
indicates he does quite often.

Exodus 22

"18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

Deuteronomy 17

"17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Deuteronomy 13:

"8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death,"

There are many many more of course...

Yes, but you will note that God exceeds and eye for an eye when he kills adulterers who have not killed anyone. It seems even God screws up on the Golden Rule.

Regards
DL
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