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Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

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Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by Ivan on Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

Writing for ‘Compass’ in July this year, Lisa Nandy MP said: “For most of my lifetime, politics has been based on a belief that the only way to win elections is to seek out the centre ground, but it is surely an essential plank of a democracy that politicians should provide leadership and not just follow; as Robin Archer of the LSE says, to seek to define and not just seek the centre ground”. She continued by saying that people on the left in politics have to tackle the issues which make us feel uncomfortable – welfare reform, law and order and immigration.
http://www.compassonline.org.uk/news/item.asp?n=13151&offset=50

Let’s tackle the issue of immigration. The right-wing press has been indoctrinating us for years with claims that most immigrants are living on benefits, while at the same time saying that they’ve taken many of our jobs, and of course both scenarios can’t possibly be true. We’re told that the country is already overcrowded; it’s not, only S.E. England is, although we are now the most densely populated country in Europe. We’re told that immigration increases crime (our prisons do indeed hold a disproportionate number of people who weren’t born here) and increases the threat to our security. By increasing the labour force, does immigration suppress wage levels?

In the 1970s, the National Front used to peddle the spurious argument that as there were a million people unemployed in the UK at the time, all we had to do was repatriate a million immigrants and there would be no unemployment. Anyone with half a brain can work out that by reducing the population by a million, you would have a million fewer consumers to buy goods and services, thereby reducing demand and creating unemployment. There would also be a million fewer taxpayers (even those not working pay VAT).

So why have successive UK governments over the last fifty years allowed and even encouraged immigration?
Not out of charity but out of necessity. Firstly, to do jobs which the indigenous population didn’t want to do, or didn’t have the skills to do. The NHS would have collapsed years ago without immigrant doctors and nurses. Secondly, Europe has a declining birth rate, which is threatening to make it difficult to pay for pensions for future generations. Most immigrants are of working age, which means they consume less of the services provided by the state, such as health care and education, and pay more in taxes. Home Office research in 2002 suggested that immigrants paid £2.5bn more in taxes than they took in benefits.

Perhaps if more of us showed a positive attitude to immigrants, welcoming and celebrating diversity instead of perceiving it as ‘a problem’, immigrants might feel less of a need to retreat into ghettos, where some of them succumb to religious fanaticism and terrorism.


Last edited by Ivan on Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by jackthelad on Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:20 pm

Quote
It's the people who come here with nothing, who travel the globe looking for opportunity, who will succeed. Closing the door on them is short-sighted lunacy.”

They are succeeding ok, free housing and benefits, all the scum of Europe and other parts of the world making here for all the freebies that are on offer.
We have a million young people out of work, nearly two million skilled and unskilled older people out of work.
Closing the door on them should be the first priority, unless they have a job and accomadation to go to.
There are hundreds of East Europeans fiddling the benifit system, claiming benifit for children they haven't got. The benifits system is all in disarray, they have stopped checking if these people really have children. One gang have frauded the benifit system of 2 million pounds, yes they have got jail, free board and lodgings again, payed by the British tax payer. There are countless others foriegners on the fiddle, no proper check up to see if they are genuine claimants.
Mean while British people who have suffered a bad accident or an illness caused through work, their doctors will have to sign them of sick, because they are being told too by this Con/Lib Dem government. A panel of non-medical people will decide if they are able to work.
The English language should be a must to be able to speak, how can anyone work in this country if the can't converse with people. In some cases it could be extreamly dangerouse.
NIN, the grey squirrel is vermin, (tree rats as i call them) now if anything needs to be culled, it's the tree rat.

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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by NIN on Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 pm

I once bought a dining table for 4 people and 4 chairs to match,,then i invited 24 people to dinner,,and was astonished to find that not only was the dining table crowded and that me and mine couldnt find a seat, but also there wasnt enough food on the table to feed everybody.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by astra on Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:33 pm

In Scotland, there used to be a bounty - paid at the local cop shop, for Pike, for Fox tails and for the tails of Grey Squirrels. The tree hggers got hold of this and got the practice stopped as it was to them distasteful. Nowadays we have raptors - Buzzards etc being poisoned (buzzards eat carrion, so are no danger to lambs etc!) and other species being illegaly killed.

A bounty on the first 3 species would, I think take the poisoners back to some useful hunting and fishing!

Just the same as the do0gooders who let the mink out of the fur farms, Look at the damage these creatures are doing to the land and habitat! And NO due to same do gooders, you cannot go after them as well

To little old me, the do-gooders and tree-huggers should be lined up and shot! (only thing it that THAT would in the end, be a consumate waste of ammunition!)
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by Shirina on Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:35 pm

To little old me, the do-gooders and tree-huggers should be lined up and shot!
Wouldn't that result in a world full of "do-badders?" Cool

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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by astra on Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:59 pm

I like to think of the Greenpeace, Animal rights lobbyists and other "Noble" groups as Single Issue Terrorists! They make themselves Ignoble!
You could add some of you American religious people to this as well.

Only ONE topic on their agenda, and if they get what they want, it is to hell with the consequenses on the rest of society!

OH I am NOT saying that there is not a place for those voices to be heard, and actions that can be taken. What I AM saying is that the fervent rabid in-your-face lobbyist, who never seems to be out of the TV get too much publicity and do as much damage as they cure!
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:43 pm

Add to that people who publicly disagree with one's cherished opinions.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by witchfinder on Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:43 pm

Hello - I am British, and I emigrated to Spain 7 years ago because its so much warmer and sunnier than it is in Britain.

Naturaly, like most other British people living in Spain ( and there are 1 million of us now ) we dont need to speak Spanish, why should we, we speak the worlds dominant language and if the Spanish want to communicate then they have to know English.

I dont have to worry about foreign food, foreign customs or the Spanish way of life, we have our own football bars, Irish bars, traditional pubs, fish & chip shops and Gupta s Tandoori Take-aways.

We have our own English language newspapers, an English radio station, we watch the BBC and Sky, we have Bulldog clubs, Caledonian societies, British clubs and Saint Davids clubs.

Of course we dont celebrate Christmas in the Spanish style, we do it in the British way with the main feast been on the 25th, we dont take part in the Spanish customs, after all they are foreign.

We British have a good life in Spain, sunday lunch at the George & Dragon, an afternoon nap and feet up to watch coronation street after tea - Paella ? ... good god no, wouldent eat that stuff.



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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by bobby on Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:08 pm

witchfinder, sounds an ideal life, but what happens to all the ex pats in Spain, France and Italy, if those countries impose the same restrictions as Cameron wants to impose here. As usual the plonker Herr Cameron thinks with his dick instead of what is left of his drug ruined brain. (based on his own admission that he took drugs when attending Eton College).
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by astra on Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:19 pm

Can we start to make a distinction between the OPEN DOOR all welcome policy that we have at present in this country? If anyone wants to come here, all they have to do is get here - hell's teeth, in some european and african countries, they will get FINANCIAL HELP from our embassy! Which OTHER country on this planet does that?

If someone wnats to come here - FINE but they should have a purpose, just as I would if going to ANY other country! The first thing I would be asked is - "Why do you want to come here?" this country it is "How many sugars do you take in your tea Sir/Madam?"
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by astradt1 on Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:17 pm

Following Witch's post I would like to know How many Polish immigrants there are in Britain to compare with the, in Witch's words, 1 million British immigrants in Spain?

I feel that many in Britain only see immigration as a problem when it is into this country and that if Brits decide to move overseas then that's OK.

Like the fact that there are so many immigrants playing football, managing football teams or even owning teams in this country but no one seems to be concerned that thye are taking jobs from British Born players, managers and owners.........
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by bobby on Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:39 pm

astra Hi "V" Many of the brits that have gone to aforementioned countries are in fact retired, do not speak the language of the Country they have chosen as their home, and have no intention of learning it. And there are the ones who sold their ex Council House, made a big fat proffit, then went for what they thought to be easy street. They went and bought all the ruins for sale, then went about doing them up, only most didn't do their sums properly and spent all of their money doing the places up, leaving sweet fanny adams in the benk. Many ended up with really nice homes, but bugger all grub in the larder, then they looked for work. Of course most couldnt get work as they couldnt speak the language, many came back and loads that stayed end up doing work for each other cash in hand, feeding the black economy. The very thing I expect most of them accused the immigrants to the UK. Its all well and good for them before retirement age, but when that day comes, they get little pension if one at all, and again are forced to come home, selling their homes for below the Market value.
I think anyone going to another Country to set down roots, should only be allowed if they can prove they can support themselves and have a sponsor should things go tits up, like they do it in Australia, If they have no legal right to enter this Country, the doors should be closed, unless they are here to create work for the indigenous population. End of Sermon.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by witchfinder on Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:47 pm

Theres hardly a developed nation in the world that hasent had large scale immigration, and the UK is no different, infact immigrants have been coming to the UK thrroughout its entire history - and before the existence of the UK.

There is not a single poster who posts on Cutting Edge who hasent got DNA or genes from either Germany, France, Italy, Norway or Denmark, virtualy the entire population has foreign blood.

The other fact worth bearing in mind is that allthough there is such a thing as "bad immigration" there is also such a thing as "good immigration" and we in the UK would not enjoy the standard of living we enjoy, or have a leading economy without immigration over the last few generations.

There are many scare storys and falsehoods put about concerning immigrants, one such nonsense is that immigrants are a drain because they claim handouts - the truth is that there are hardly any immigrants who come here who live on benefits.

The truth is that on average, immigrants contribute MORE to British society than what ethnic British people do, for example a Pole is far more willing to take up dirty, wet, cold or unpleasant jobs that many British people simply wont do - and thats a fact, I know this from first hand experience.

People of Asian origin contribute 8% of Britains wealth, though they make up only 4% of the population.

Yes of course there are migrants who come here simply to cheat, beg, scrounge and milk the system, but their numbers are grossly exagerated.





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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by bobby on Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:34 pm


witchfinder said
"Yes of course there are migrants who come here simply to cheat, beg, scrounge and milk the system, but their numbers are grossly exagerated."

And are there as many of them as are Brits working on the black economy's abroad.
I agree with you whole heartedly re your feelings on Europe, we just need to get through this American created crap, then restart properly.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:51 pm

I'm not sure whether this is the best place to reveal that Spaniards refer to the Brits living in their midst as "Immigrant Medical-Dependants".
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by astra on Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:57 pm

There is not a single poster who posts on Cutting Edge who hasent got DNA or genes from either Germany, France, Italy, Norway or Denmark, virtualy the entire population has foreign blood


Sorry Witchy, every rule has it's exceptions, and I am EXCEPTIONAL!! bounce My parents both came from North of the Highland Line.


Hello Bobby, it is called research, it is called sussing out all the pitfalls. Many of those who you describe, followed the common blurb and thought everything would be rosey, trusting this agent and that as they plodded along in supposed valhalla of course it would end in tears.

YES, I bought the council house I was given in 1980, am still init!! and I thank God for that

Some of the guys I work with have gone "up market" playing the system, and if (god forbid) what happens to me happened to them they are in sh1t street

Canada, Australia and America want sponsors, so should this country.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by bobby on Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:11 pm

By the Way V, how are you keeping.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by astra on Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:35 pm

Fine Bobby thanks. Chemo again, but if it keeps me going, well, good stuff!


Looking forward to the festive season - the granddaughters will keep it moving!

Hoping you and yours are all well, and revving up for the season.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by NIN on Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:08 pm

Let's start with some facts. ENGLAND is one of THE densest populated nations in the world. ENGLAND now has a very limited space for building because (most of us) want and need the undeveloped land we DO have to grow food, use as leisure space, and a resource (trees etc.) to mop up increasing air pollution (more people = more polluting traffic), and for providing us with water. Every immigrant/asylum seeker needs a dwelling; uses water; consumes food & energy; uses transportation;contributes waste requiring disposal - and so on. It should therefore be clear to anyone with half a brain that the rapid rise in our population over the last 20 years or so cannot go on indefinitely without adversely affecting the quality of life for those living here.



Now let's look at those things I've mentioned. There's a "housing crisis" Why? It's NOT a SUPPLY problem, it's a DEMAND problem. Water: trouble on the horizon, particularly in SE England, because of a combination of climate change and DEMAND from a rapidly-growing population. Food; increasing imports due to the increasing size of the population AND the changing nature of significant portions of the population i.e. those who have very different cultural origins. This means more transportation of food = more pollution. Energy - because of increasing DEMAND, and reduced resources, prices rise, and our own resources (e.g. North Sea gas) are being used up quicker than they would have been if we had not seen the level of immigration we've seen over the last 2 or 3 decades. Also, energy DEMANDS have led to more imports = less energy security + more pollution. Waste disposal. Landfill is in crisis. Transportation: there's more of it = more pollution e.g. I wonder how much more air pollution is being caused because of constant flights (particularly between here and the Indian sub-continent) as a result of recent immigrants travelling to and from their places of origin.



I could go on, but I should think people have the gist of my case by now. It's UNSUSTAINABLE - unless we are prepared to sacrifice our current quality of life. And who wants that?
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:55 pm

The quality of life experienced during the first seven years of the 21st. Century seems to have been unsustainable anyway.

With prominent exceptions.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by jackthelad on Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:34 pm


Astra says,
Sorry Witchy, every rule has it's exceptions, and I am EXCEPTIONAL!! My parents both came from North of the Highland Line.

Astra doesn't know Scottish history very well, the Vikings, didn't need to cross north of the highland line. They just sailed in, lots of norse men plundered, raped, and settled in Scotland and the islands of Scotland. So Scottish blood is not so pure, not only is it polluted by whiskey it is polluted by Viking and Hibernian blood, Hibernian being what is now know as Ireland.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by astra on Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:02 pm

Thanks for your asessment of my homeland knowledge. There are pockets of the highlands, that the Vikings did NOT get to. OH Yes they went inland - even taking a Longboat over the mountain between Loch Earn and Loch Tay! This heavy march is remembered every summer in a hill race. It can be said that some of the most pure Scottish Blood was evicted on the behest of the Hudson Bay Company, or the Peninsular and Orient Company, but people did survive in some pretty inhospitable places/land features, during the Roman times and the Viking onslaught. Vikings were interested in fast moving pillage, and there was little of this IN THE HIGHLANDS, the coastal areas being favourite for this. It is to be seen that most of the viking named places are in England - where there was far more plunder and the women were fatter and therefore more desirable for a sea voyage! NNOT saying they were overweight no no but there was more "meat" on them than on their Scottish counterparts. So regular was the Viking pillage of Berwick upon Tweed, and Lindisfarne, that the nuns in Coldingham Abbey CUT OFF THEIR OWN BREASTS to be undesirable to the Viking. (another legend has it that it was their noses that they cut off)
Ireland - Dalriada! >>>try this link <<<

I cannot think of any habitation in Scotland with "Thwaite" Viking common land - Armathwaite in Cumberland.

Of the Whisky (WHISKEY with an E is IRISH, and I do not buy it as refered to elsewhere) St Andrew's Day is next week so the start of seasonal festivities is seen to, Burns Nicht, at the end of January being the "End" of festivities

Slainte Mhath






Pronounced "Slawn-Cha-Va", Slainte Mhath is a Scots gaelic phrase meaning good health and is used to salute someone or something with a drink. The normal response is either Do-Dheagh Shlainte (your good health) or Slainte Mhor (great health).


Highland Line, as I was taught it is a line drawn from Helensburgh, near Holy Loch, to Bankfoot in Perthshire and over to Montrose (or Stonehaven) on the East Coast of Scotland. Stonehaven in Bruce's time - 1300, and Montrose in 1630 (ish) at the time of James Graham Marquis of Montrose.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by tlttf on Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:59 am

Perhaps a few of the pensioners on this board can verify the figures?

Dear Prime Minister The RT. HON. David Cameron. MP.

I wish to ask you a Question :- " Is This True ?"

I refer to the Pension Reality Check.

Are you aware of the following ?

The British Government provides the following financial assistance:-


BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER (bearing in mind they worked hard and paid their Income Tax and National Insurance contributions to the British government all their working life) Weekly allowance: £106.00

IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN (No Income Tax and National Insurance contribution whatsoever) Weekly allowance: £250.00

BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER Weekly Spouse allowance: £25.00

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN Weekly Spouse allowance: £225.00

BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER Additional weekly hardship allowance £0.00

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN Additional weekly hardship allowance £100.00

A British old age pensioner is no less hard up than an illegal immigrant/refugee yet receives nothing


BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT £6,000
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT: £29,900


Please read all and then forward to all your contacts so that we can lobby for a decent state pension.

After all, the average pensioner has paid taxes and contributed to the growth of this country for the last 40 to 60 years.

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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by astra on Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:51 am

Yeah I.ve seen this on the rounds.

The UK OAP figures are correct enough


Guess what?


Just try to get the figures for the others mentioned - I couldn't find them.


Maybe some hound on here will have better luck.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by astradt1 on Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:32 am

Astra.....you should have realised that they were printed at some time in either the Daily Wail or Express...........they look like the sorts of numbers they trot out every no and then...............
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:36 am

Once again an argument tries to compare apples with oranges. A family of working age will have unavoidable expenses that should not, reasonably, still form part of the burden of being a Pensioner. The latter should no longer be paying off a mortgage, nor putting their offspring through Education - indeed the youngsters may even be earning sufficient money to make a household contribution - nor making National Insurance contributions. Neither are there any longer the costs of commuting to work.

Roundabouts and swings. Horses for Courses.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by astra on Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:59 am

that should not, reasonably, still form part of the burden of being a Pensioner.


Depends if you've got rid of the offspring from the nest OW. Less and less "children" are leaving home to set up on their own. The usual custom and practice now is "Gan doon the road, get the girlfriend up the stick, them go "home" to mummy and Daddy.

Moral - if your child is female, prepare for a burgeoning army of mouths to feed even in retirement.


I have absolutely NO idea how this post also ended up on the NHS thread!
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:38 pm

You can't expect MI5 to get it right EVERY time.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by astra on Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:07 pm

You can't expect MI5 to get it right EVERY time.



I am NOT a number!!
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by Redflag on Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:08 pm

oftenwrong wrote:The solution is obvious.

Don't pay benefits to any claimant with a funny name and/or can't instantly say what happened in 1066.

When you emigrate to Austrailia legally you have to live and work there before you become entitled to claim any benefit, so I take it if there are illegal immigrants they get S.F.A in benefits.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by Penderyn on Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:17 pm

Don't we waste a lot of words and emotions on this stuff? People should live and work where they choose, and get reasonable benefits for doing so. What is the point of all this how's-your-father? Capitalism will always get the workers it wants, and its politicians will always work up hatred against them to dish working class unity. Nothing new there.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:32 pm

Capitalism will always get the workers it wants, and its politicians will always work up hatred against them to dish working class unity.


"Divide and Rule" has already been used this week. Can you think of something else?
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by blueturando on Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:06 am

When you emigrate to Austrailia legally you have to live and work there before you become entitled to claim any benefit, so I take it if there are illegal immigrants they get S.F.A in benefits..

Redflag...We have similar rules here in Jersey. We have quite a large number of immigrants here (I am one) but unless you are born here you cannot claim or receive any benefits until you have lived and worked here for 5 years. We don't have the same issues with immigration as the UK even though we have a higher number per capita, because they are not a drain on public services as they pay their taxes and social security.

Our housing system is also different and immigrants do not quaifiy for social housing and also cannot buy unless they have lived here for 10 years. I had to live here that length of time before I could buy....It's the rules and we are all happy to live by them.

Maybe a system like this would work in the UK? Immigrants would have to make a commitment to the UK and pay into the pot rather than the sometimes perceived (and righly so) picture where immigrants have been moved into social housing ahead of the indiginous population who have lived and worked here all their lives.....Surely this is unfair on British families who need housing.
It would also stop the many fraud cases we hear about in the press where some immigrants have multiple identities to defraud the benefit system, taking away funds from genuine claimants and pensioners

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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by sickchip on Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:35 am

Should immigration be perceived as a solution?
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by blueturando on Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:59 am

A solution to what?

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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by sickchip on Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:17 am

A solution to what?

To cutting the cost of the labour force in a free market global economy.....and hence increasing company profits.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:05 am

Entire nations have been founded on immigration following war, pestilence or natural disaster elsewhere.

Examples might include Singapore, Fiji, Cyprus, Israel, Pakistan/West Bengal, Belgium and The Antipodes.

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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by astra on Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:00 pm

Yes, but,


The ONLY NATIONAL disaster we have had in the UK is past Right Wing Governments since 1972!
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:25 pm

SURGEON-GENERAL's WARNING

VOTING TORY CAN BE BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by blueturando on Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:27 am

According to the National Institute of Economic & Social Research (NIESR),

There are 23 fewer jobs for British workers for every 100 migrants from outside the EU, the Government's immigration advisers have said.
What this implies is that 23\100 take British jobs, whilst the remaining 77\100 take British taxpayers money by way of Benefits, because they do not say that the 77\100 are doing any work related activity to support themselves.

By the faulty logic of this research ,which is government advised, they still think that overall immigration is a positive thing.

Now, as I care to remember from past assertions it takes at least 3 working people to pay for the benefits of non-working people, not only are these 77\100 not working, but there are also the 23\100 British people displaced from the opportunity to earn a living.

To sum up, 23\100 immigrants get jobs, which displace 23 British people from the opportunities of working, who then have to be supported by the state....this still leaves 100\100 people on state benefits, just supplanting 23 British people with 23 immigrants into work placement & putting the 23 British people onto Benefits.


This is basically demonstrating the insanity of politicians that are completely out of touch with reality. Is it any wonder that this country is heading nowher? In addition it reinforces the notion that young British people do not want to work.

There is no political representation of working people in this country, there never was. The Labour Party leaders have always been against workers interests, they have only been interested in financing their own political interest.


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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by bobby on Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:19 pm

Bluey. How many of the 77/100 are in fact dependants of the 23/100.
Perhaps had your Tory heroine not decimated British manufacturing, in her bid to wreck the unions, there would be enough work for many more. Had not Thatcher created the YUPPIE culture "dont create anything, just wealth" our kids and grand kids wouldn’t have such an inflated opinion of themselves, and would be more prepared to work in the trades, instead of all wanting to be pop stars footballers or bankers. You only have to watch the telly and all these crap programs like the X Factor and Britain’s got Talent. They all want a short cut to fame and fortune, very few want to work the pubs and clubs or take proper singing lessons.
When I was having my workshop built, I overheard one of the English Brickies saying to someone else “ I wouldn’t bother getting out of bed for less than £200.00 per day” (this was in 1999), this bricklayer recons he was worth £1000.00 per week for 5 working days, then they wonder why 1st people cant afford their greed and secondly immigrants especially Polish get the job at a lower more realistic rate and you get a better job done.
We shouldn’t blame the immigrants, but the greed of our own. Then I’m forgetting the British trait of needing someone else to blame. It used to be the Jews, Then the Blacks, then the Indians, then the Muslims and now we are picking on the Europeans, Who Next.
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

Post by Ivanhoe on Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:42 pm

Ivan wrote:Writing for ‘Compass’ in July this year, Lisa Nandy MP said: “For most of my lifetime, politics has been based on a belief that the only way to win elections is to seek out the centre ground, but it is surely an essential plank of a democracy that politicians should provide leadership and not just follow; as Robin Archer of the LSE says, to seek to define and not just seek the centre ground”. She continued by saying that people on the left in politics have to tackle the issues which make us feel uncomfortable – welfare reform, law and order and immigration.
http://www.compassonline.org.uk/news/item.asp?n=13151&offset=50

Let’s tackle the issue of immigration. The right-wing press has been indoctrinating us for years with claims that most immigrants are living on benefits, while at the same time saying that they’ve taken many of our jobs, and of course both scenarios can’t possibly be true. We’re told that the country is already overcrowded; it’s not, only S.E. England is, although we are now the most densely populated country in Europe. We’re told that immigration increases crime (our prisons do indeed hold a disproportionate number of people who weren’t born here) and increases the threat to our security. By increasing the labour force, does immigration suppress wage levels?

In the 1970s, the National Front used to peddle the spurious argument that as there were a million people unemployed in the UK at the time, all we had to do was repatriate a million immigrants and there would be no unemployment. Anyone with half a brain can work out that by reducing the population by a million, you would have a million fewer consumers to buy goods and services, thereby reducing demand and creating unemployment. There would also be a million fewer taxpayers (even those not working pay VAT).

So why have successive UK governments over the last fifty years allowed and even encouraged immigration?
Not out of charity but out of necessity. Firstly, to do jobs which the indigenous population didn’t want to do, or didn’t have the skills to do. The NHS would have collapsed years ago without immigrant doctors and nurses. Secondly, Europe has a declining birth rate, which is threatening to make it difficult to pay for pensions for future generations. Most immigrants are of working age, which means they consume less of the services provided by the state, such as health care and education, and pay more in taxes. Home Office research in 2002 suggested that immigrants paid £2.5bn more in taxes than they took in benefits.

Perhaps if more of us showed a positive attitude to immigrants, welcoming and celebrating diversity instead of perceiving it as ‘a problem’, immigrants might feel less of a need to retreat into ghettos, where some of them succumb to religious fanaticism and terrorism.

No, they should not. Imiigrants come here to work, like we can go to Europe and work if we wish. This is called "freedom of movement in employment".

Iimmigrants have to work for one full year, before being allowed any benefits. But even then, immigrants only receive one third of what Britain's unemployed receive.

Many immigrants who cant find legal work, work in our black economy, where they are exploited by British bosses.

Asylum seekers are not allowed to work by law so there are no welfare benefits for these people, instead they are given vouchers to live on, around £35 quid a week to live on. But I could be wrong on the amount ?
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Re: Should immigration always be perceived as ‘a problem’?

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