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Is the United Kingdom doomed?

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Majority back Scottish independence

Post by Ivan on Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

Exactly what I’ve been predicting for a long time. I said that if the Tories, so hated in Scotland that they have only one MP, came to power at Westminster again, the Scots would decide that they’d rather go it alone. Apparently, Scottish independence now has majority backing north of the border and in the UK as a whole, according to a new poll.

Research by ComRes for ‘The Independent on Sunday’ and ‘The Sunday Mirror’ found that support for the move had risen sharply over recent months. The results are a boost for First Minister Alex Salmond as his Scottish National Party prepares to hold its autumn conference in Inverness.

In the UK overall, 39% of those surveyed agreed that Scotland should be an independent country - an increase of six points since May. The number disagreeing with the statement had fallen four points to 38%.
In Scotland, the proportion supporting independence was up 11 points over the period at 49%. Some 37% disagreed - down by nine points.

The SNP, which won an unprecedented overall majority in May elections, has promised to hold a referendum on independence towards the end of its five-year term.

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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by atv on Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:06 pm

bobby wrote: Why dont you ask the extra millions allready made unemployed,the new homeless, those back on hospital waiting lists (a thing with the aid of private services, Labour had rid us of) The elderly who's lives are now at risk due to Government cuts, The thousands of kids now on the scrapheap, because of Tory Policy.

Millions? Are you sure about that?
You must be talking about all the foreigners pinching our jobs then.....
You are a great believer in slave labour then?

I gather you are still employed, just wait till your not, then we will hear what you will have to say.

Yes I am, and if I did lose my job through no fault of my own, I would find another as soon as possible.

But did we hear from you when thousands of businesses closed, losing hundreds of thousands of jobs, and do you really believe that there wouldn't be thousands of kids on the scrapheap if Labour were still in power?
Then you are just as deluded as the other bunch of lefties who refuse to accept that this is the Labour party who claims to want to protect the poor and vulnerable. Great idea, but when every action you take makes them poorer and more vulnerable, it makes the lying hypocrisy even harder to take.

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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by bobby on Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:37 pm

atv wrote

if I did lose my job through no fault of my own, I would find another as soon as possible.

Of course atv it would be no fault of your own, I mean when was the last time a Tory took the responsibility for anything. Its allways someone else, isn't it.

Why do you constantly blame Labour for everything, When they left power, they had allready got us out of resession, unemployement was going down, our economy was back in growth. According to a public survey the satisfaction of the NHS was at its highest, now after less than two years, hospital germ infections has doubled and that in the last year alone, waiting lists are back, and that is directly the result of Herr Camerons idealistic policies
As for we of the left being deluded. Just where do you think this job is, that you think you will walk into. Your Herr Cameron and the rest of the Tory numbsculls have busied themselves reducing employement in the UK. There are countless thousands out there with much more skill and abillity than a mere human resource manager. What we need are people like me that can produce things for export, not more pen pushers. I was of the belief that it is people like you, that is a drain on NHS resources, hence Herr Camerons wish to cut them, as he recons the hospitals can do without these people. Well atv, Public sector will lead the way, and it wont be long before the private sector jump on the band wagon and get rid of its non productive dead wood. What goes round comes round. Unfortunitely I dont think I would ever hear about your fall (should you have one) as that would take honesty and integrity, things lacking in anything Conservative.

ATV wrote

"You must be talking about all the foreigners pinching our jobs then....."


Not being a racist, I dont make a habit of blaming them for all our missfortune, but hold on a mo. All these Foregn workers you mention, you know the ones that the Conservatives opened the door to, by taking us into the common market, then Major the Curry Phucker, signing the Marstricht Treaty. Off course they had nothing to do with it. It wasn't me gov, it woz them, and now under the King of rhetoric have the numbers reduced, as promissed or was that just another Cameron cast iron promisse.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by Stox 16 on Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:32 am

witchfinder wrote:atv wrote "Labour had 2 years to make the cuts"

Not true actualy, the UK came out of recession at the end of 2009, the reality is that the time between a return to growth and the general election was just 5 months, unless of course you are suggesting that the previous government should have commenced cuts half way through a recession. ?

WEll its probably the kind of thing messers Cameron and Osborne would have done, and then when it all went wrong they simply blame the previous government.


That is very true. At the time of the GE there was growth in the UK economy. they could of had two a good 14 months of growth. but o No. they had there heart set on going into the next GE saying they had cleared up the defect.

Witchfinder said>WEll its probably the kind of thing messers Cameron and Osborne would have done.... How very true. as after two wasted years they have just started to now spend on infrastructure. this was after they ran around for two years telling everyone that they would cut this down. wonder why they had a change of mind? O that is right...... there economic plan had failed. not they they can admit too it.

but then they are borrowing and overspending by some £123 Billion so far with growth at 0.06% with unemployment hitting a 17 years high.

but then they still keep telling us all on the TV that Plan A is working? lol! Just give it more time they say.....At this rate it will take about 100 years that is all.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by atv on Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:59 pm

bobby wrote:
atv wrote
if I did lose my job through no fault of my own, I would find another as soon as possible.

Of course atv it would be no fault of your own, I mean when was the last time a Tory took the responsibility for anything. Its allways someone else, isn't it.

I take it you have never lost your job through no fault of your own, you are very fortunate, unfortunately there are thousands who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own, and tell that to the thousands you reckon will lose their in the years to come, I wonder who they will blame or do you think they should take responsibility for that?

Why do you constantly blame Labour for everything,

For the same reason you blame Thatcher and the Torys for everything.

According to a public survey the satisfaction of the NHS was at its highest, now after less than two years, hospital germ infections has doubled and that in the last year alone, waiting lists are back, and that is directly the result of Herr Camerons idealistic policies

A Department of Health spokesperson said: These figures are misleading. The NHS has got better and better at tackling hospital infections, demonstrated by the record lows we have seen this year.
Because we are not complacent, we have introduced mandatory reporting of more hospital infections. That means that we have shone a light on the problems previously swept under the carpet.

As for we of the left being deluded. Just where do you think this job is, that you think you will walk into.

I would take any job to keep my family.

What we need are people like me that can produce things for export, not more pen pushers. I was of the belief that it is people like you, that is a drain on NHS resources.

I'm pleased you finally realised that all those pen pushers and managers were a drain on the NHS
Conservatives released figures showing that the cost of NHS bureaucracy under Labour rose to £1.9 billion last year, a 41 per cent increase since 2006.
Tory MP Chris Skidmore said these figures “lay bare the extent to which spending on NHS management under Labour spiralled out of control” and proved that the previous government valued managers more than doctors and nurses, which ‘‘had real consequences for patient care”.

Not being a racist, I dont make a habit of blaming them for all our missfortune, but hold on a mo. All these Foregn workers you mention, you know the ones that the Conservatives opened the door to, by taking us into the common market,

Why do you constantly blame the Torys for everything?

Covering the period between 1997 & 2010 it has been estimated that at least 3million imigrants both legal and illegal entered the UK, it could be more, but who really has the figures, nobody knows, how many are illegal student visas, arranged marriages, hiding on the back of a lorry, these figures can not really be counted, what a way to run a Country!!!
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by bobby on Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:30 am

atv wrote

"I take it you have never lost your job through no fault of your own, you are very fortunate, unfortunately there are thousands who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own, and tell that to the thousands you reckon will lose their in the years to come, I wonder who they will blame or do you think they should take responsibility for that?"

I have never been fired or made redundant, but I have found myself without work. That is because My first foray into business was during the Bitch Thatcher’s tenure, and her recession, I not only lost my Business, but my home as well, I had to sell it at well below value to avoid Bankruptcy.
Then came the Curry Phucker Major, who exceeded the bitch and took the unemployment figure to 3.8 million during another recession, my second venture into business was also a victim of Conservative ideology and Majors recession. So I have suffered under your Tory’s after all the promises they made about helping small businesses, and the first help they gave us was to raise VAT (just like they always do) and choke off immediate growth, exactly what the idiots have done this time.

.As for the present unemployed and those who haven’t felt the spite of the Conservative party YET. They will blame the effing Tory’s Who else will there be to blame, but according to you, as long as they are prepared to do anything, they will get work. Bleeding Dreamland.

As for the pen pushers in the NHS, either I havent been clear enough or you are missrepresenting me.

As for hospital germs doubling over the last year , I read this whilst waiting for some fish and chips. The article was on the Front Page of the Daily Mail. A Tory Rag

As for pen pushers as yourself being a drain on the NHS, I personally agree to a point, but unfortunately we are now living in a compensation society, where the Public will claim for being bruised after an injection. Because of this attitude more pen pushers , managers and legal beavers are needed to keep compensation claims in check as everything done by the NHS need records kept for absolutely everything and in triplicate. The problem comes when the cuts are being made, compensation claims etc are still going through so it is front line staff who are being cut, despite what the Tory liars are telling you, and of course you believe every lie the flows out of their gobs.

When I came back to the UK in September, I went for a regular Retinopathy check (due to Diabetes), within a couple of weeks I received an appointment for yesterday. I attended the clinic and was told by the specialist that I have a haemorrhage in my left eye and it will probably need laser treatment. I went out to the reception desk to make the appointment and guess what, it is for 17th September 2012, almost 12 months from the date a problem was found. Waiting times like this was almost eradicated under Labour, but in less than two years of the Conservatives, we have them back, and believe me, they will get worse. I am lucky and if my eyesight becomes at risk, I can afford Private treatment, and if necessary will take that rout, but what of those who can not afford any other option other than to wait. What about them atv. Don’t try to push this on Labour, it is wholly down to the Cretins presently in power.







































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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by atv on Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:50 pm

"bobby



So you had two businesses that failed, but it wasn't your fault it was the Torys fault, let me remind you of your reply.

Of course atv it would be no fault of your own, I mean when was the last time a Tory took the responsibility.Its allways someone else, isn't it.

You mentioned the unemployed who haven’t felt the spite of the Conservative party YET. They will blame the effing Tory’s Who else will there be to blame.
So who will the hundreds of thousands that lost their jobs under Labour blame, The effing Labour party of course, who else were there to blame?

As for the pen pushers in the NHS, either I havent been clear enough or you are missrepresenting me.

The NHS is paying spin doctors more than the experts in charge of cancer screening and patient care, it emerged yesterday.
Critics said it was an example of the waste and skewed priorities rife in the Health Service at a time when it is supposed to be making efficiency savings.
In the past four years, primary care trusts and strategic health authorities across England have spent £182million on their communications departments, employing 491 full-time ‘media professionals’.
Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

As for hospital germs doubling over the last year , I read this whilst waiting for some fish and chips. The article was on the Front Page of the Daily Mail. A Tory Rag
Did you not read my reply,
A Department of Health spokesperson said: These figures are misleading. The NHS has got better and better at tackling hospital infections, demonstrated by the record lows we have seen this year.
Because we are not complacent, we have introduced mandatory reporting of more hospital infections. That means that we have shone a light on the problems previously swept under the carpet.
Clearly that it is not increasing hospital infections but increased reporting of hospital infections, something Labour failed to do. No surprise there though. Classic labour government scenario, the only surprise is that people are surprised.

That being said, I am genuinely sorry to hear about your eyesight, I personally know how important your eyes are. We are very fortunate in the West Midlands in as much we have The Birmingham Eye Hospital. They are the most caring and efficient doctors and nurses in the Country, and I hope you get referred to them. I know we have our differences and always will do, but politics apart, as a fellow human being I wish you the best of health and a very happy new year,
Regards atv.


































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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by astra on Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:54 pm

Hello rer Bobby! (use your Rab C Nesbitt impersonation there)

Every thing you say strikes a chord with my little travel through this mortal choil - though I have never been in busuness myself, but have watched friends and relatives struggle and drown in the way you describe.

I had a blood test Thursday, in the local Primary Care Centre, built by Labour and now there is a threat over the building! (as far as I know, financing has another 15 years to go!) The blood test was mislaid, and I was called into Sunderland Royal for a back up yesterday.

As soon as I walked into the ward, the Staff said we found your test! GET OUT of here!! (being me, I said that's nice, a happy new year to you too.) Then it was explained about the "Hospital Bugs" and I was not welcome for any more time than absolutely necessary.

Not much of a Labour supporter since Blair stuffed it up and turned an honourable party to suedo Conservative, and never support a tory, I see the difference in the hospital in only 2 years - it's like being on a different planet


A HAPPY NEW YEAR to you Bobby and to everyone Very Happy


from somewhere on the dark side of Alfa Centauri What a Face
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by Ivan on Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:40 pm

Extracts from an article by Polly Toynbee:-

The year ends with the country in a worse state than the government's severest critics expected. Yet worse is to come, as 2012 slides towards the second recession in three years. Virtually everything Cameron's government has done has made matters worse; most policy initiatives are creaking while others are mere words without substance. In my political lifetime there has been no more callous or inept crew in charge – nor a government more skilful at disguising its nature……This government, as it puts the NHS out to tender, cuts benefits for disabled children, leaves Britain more isolated and rapidly accelerates inequality.

The NHS by next winter will make constant headlines: the £3 billion cost of disruption and privatisation will seem exorbitant as services go bust and waiting times soar. Crime is already rising, especially robbery and burglary, as youth unemployment increases and youth services vanish. With Sure Start and child literacy programmes disappearing, future trouble brews.

Cameron has dropped every single one of his disguises – going green, concern for the poor, socially progressive, hugging hoodies, relaxed about Europe – in one U-turn after another, though mainly without changing his political language. So far, his moderate manner prevents many from seeing the change. Besides, new governments get the benefit of the doubt, with leeway to blame everything on the old regime; but he will find 2012 less forgiving.


For the full article:-
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:05 pm

So far there has been much criticism of the Coalition's PROPOSALS, many of which do not become REALITY until April.

THAT's when the trouble will start, when people abruptly realise that not only is everything more expensive, but that they will actually have less money.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by bobby on Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:30 pm

atv.
Many thanks re your concern over my eyesight, but my sight is not really at risk as I have the option of going private if the Tory controlled NHS let me down. The remedy is simple laser treatment whereby the leaking blood vessels are in effect quaterised by Laser. The point I was making was, How do those without the wherewithal to go private manage, in nine months massive changes can occure to ones eyesight and indeed could end up blind, yet here we are in Tory Britain and yet another dimminished Tory controlled NHS, and we are very quickly going back to Bitch Thatcher and Curry Phucker Majors idea's of what a National Health Service should be. It has taken LESS than two years for loads of Tory crap to explode onto the British public, yet you say (more than once) How do we expect them to put things right in less than two years. How come they are able to destoy quicker than they can build, if indeed they intend on building anything anyway. Its peoples lives they are pissing about with, and the poor and needy are of course their first target, those without any Power to fight against this evil regime.
They spouted all that nonsence "we are all in this together" please tell me just how that is working out. The Bankers who caused the problem still steal their bonuses, people in the same or similar position to me are unharmed, yet those without are haveing more and more taken from them, if not just cash, but vital services as well.
It is simply beyond my comprehension, how a decent person, can support such a Government, and how they can see Herr Camerons policies as being fair, a word used time and again by him and his lap dog Clegg.
But on a personal level, thanks again for your concern, allthough you could change horses and do something about the plight of those in desperate need of NHS treatment, because the Tory's will destroy it bit by bit, and once gone will never replace it. Herr Cameron had nothing but praise for the NHS when he needed its specialist services for his son, but now he doesnt need it he simply doesn't care anymore, he is an Animal and as far as I am concerned should be culled.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:39 pm

Quote :" It is simply beyond my comprehension, how a decent person, can support such a Government..."

I think they call it 'self-interest', bobby. Common in Tory circles. It does make you wonder just how many people will have to suffer all manner of deprivation before the nation realises the terrible error of its ways and throws out Cameron and rebuilds - yet again - after another hefty dose of Tory class-ridden spite .

We never learn, somehow...
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A message from the First Minister

Post by Achalhaeaweelook on Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:12 pm

A New Year message from First Minister Alex Salmond.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSQ-GJC-pR8
 
Enjoy
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by astra on Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:13 pm

Think of him what you will,

He Believes in the Country AND her people!!


Wish some mountebanks here in England would adopt that ethic

Sláinte mhath!
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by Stox 16 on Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:55 am

Phil Hornby wrote:Quote :" It is simply beyond my comprehension, how a decent person, can support such a Government..."

I think they call it 'self-interest', bobby. Common in Tory circles. It does make you wonder just how many people will have to suffer all manner of deprivation before the nation realises the terrible error of its ways and throws out Cameron and rebuilds - yet again - after another hefty dose of Tory class-ridden spite .

We never learn, somehow...

I just cannot agree more with your summary at all. very well put in my view
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by ROB on Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:23 am


Four Scots Heroes of the Alamo; their names, Scottish roots, and a few details.



  • Question: What should a Texan say upon being introduced to a Tennessean?


  • Answer: Thank you.



It is well known in Texas that Sam Houston and David Crockett, two of Texas’s Greatest Heroes (uppercase intentional) were Tennessean. David Crockett, after being “bamboozled” out of a seat in the US House of Representatives by fellow Tennessean President Andrew Jackson’s political machine, when asked his plans, is reported to have replied, “Y’all can go to hell; I’m going to Texas.”

Crockett did go to Texas, and died 6 March 1836 in San Antonio, Texas while defending his adopted country from Santa Anna’s tyranny.

Less well known are these four Heroes of Texas, whose loyalty to their adopted country was sealed at the Alamo 6 March 1836 as their precious blood stained the soil of the Lone Star Republic. As 6 March 2012 approaches, marking the one hundred seventy-sixth anniversary of that pivotal event in world history (ask me how and why if you wish), the names of these noble Sons of Scotland and Texas will be in my heart.


  1. Richard W. Ballentine (1814 - 6 March 1836)


  2. John McGregor (1808 - 6 March 1836)


  3. Isaac Robinson (1808 - 6 March 1836)


  4. David L. Wilson (1807- 6 March 1836)


Read these words, the sacred pledge voluntarily sworn by Richard W. Ballentine on 9 December 1835:

“We have left every endearment at our respective places of abode in the United States of America, to maintain and defend our brethren, at the peril of our lives, liberties and fortunes.”

John A. Duncan researched the debt owed by every Texan to these four Sons of Scotland, available here (click): Scottish History Online – The 4 Scots Heroes of the Alamo.

© by John A. Duncan of Sketraw, KCN, FSA Scot

http://www.scotshistoryonline.co.uk/alamo.html



  • Question: What should a Texan say upon being introduced to a Scot?

  • Answer: Thank you.



More: The Battle of the Alamo (23 February – 6 March 1836)
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by Redflag on Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:00 pm

astra wrote:Think of him what you will,

He Believes in the Country AND her people!!


Wish some mountebanks here in England would adopt that ethic

Sláinte mhath!

Sorry can not agree with your thinking the only thing that Salmond is worried about is himself, he does not appreciate the First Minister title he prefers First President and that is the only thing he is after not if it is good for Scotland.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by astra on Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:02 pm

Red Flag, Hello and welcome.
I am also a Scot, and have been watching developments and happenings since I "emigrated" to Tyne and Wear in 1980!! Smile


I did not, and cannot say that Salmond is right about anything! My sister lives up near Wick and the things they have promised, started talks then renegged on is unbelievable. (I firmly believe he bathes in the same luke-warm snake oil as Lord Mandelperson!!!)
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by witchfinder on Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:46 pm

Seems strange to me, when the world is getting smaller, Europe is growing closer, nations are uniting as never before, we have the SNP who believe that splintering and breaking up unions between nations is a good thing.

I think the problem for Mr Salmond and the SNP is that the United Kingdom actualy works, it is a success story, there is nothing wrong or undemocratic or historicly unholy about two cultures within the same island sharing sovereignty.

At the last count there were around 800,000 people born in Scotland living in England, then of course there are the English people living in Scotland, these figures do not include people born of English / Scottish parents or grandparents.

Is seperation of England and Scotland realy that easy ?

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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by ROB on Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:11 pm


Is dissolution of the United Kingdom desirable? If so, why?

We've fifty sovereign states: the overwhelming preponderance of the populations thereof have no desire to dissolve the United States.

I don't get it.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by Ivan on Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:19 pm

Scotland isn't a sovereign state. A federal UK - like the USA - would be another matter, but at the moment, despite its devolved parliament, Scotland is still under the overall control of a Tory government in Westminster. Yet in the last four general elections, Scotland has elected only one Tory MP on three occasions and none whatsoever in 1997.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by LWS on Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:48 pm

Hi Stox, agreed but I also think that people are coming slowly round to the facts that the Tories are a nasty, spiteful and backward looking party.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by ROB on Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:10 am


So maybe y’all need to do what y’all do to bring about a change to a federal system. Australia proves that the Westminster and federal systems can co-exit within one governmental structure.

Such a change here would require an amendment (2/3 vote of each house, ¾ vote of the states), an laborious but specifically defined process. Somehow, within a structure that defies my attempts to dissect, y’all have evolved from the divine right of kings to de facto republics (plural), so it shouldn’t be impossible to take that next step.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by Stox 16 on Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:31 am

LWS wrote:Hi Stox, agreed but I also think that people are coming slowly round to the facts that the Tories are a nasty, spiteful and backward looking party.

You are right LWS, but its a very slow job. I can never quite understand how people cannot see how much they are rooted in the past and driven by self greed and the cost of the many. but then is it because its human nature for as all too show signs of greed at times. its just that some are better then others in controlling it than others. What do you think LWS?
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by atv on Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:11 pm

[quote="Stox 16
I can never quite understand how people cannot see how much they are rooted in the past and driven by self greed and the cost of the many. but then is it because its human nature for as all too show signs of greed at times. its just that some are better then others in controlling it than others.[/quote]

Speaking as someone who works for a living, I am and never have been a parasite or free loader. Along with all my friends and collegues in the same boat, I've worked all my life and I pay my taxes. A lot of the people I work with come from backgrounds where they didnt have a pot to p*ss in and have made their own way in life. I think thats to be admired, not sneered at.
Why is it unacceptable to some that people actually want to work their way up to a good standard of living and to have something to show for their efforts?
I was bought up to believe you get nothing for nothing in life and the only way to get on is to work for it and thats exactly the same attitude I'll instill into my Daughter.
Why is it that some people think its greed or wrong to want a nice house, holidays, a decent car and a good standard of living?
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by bobby on Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:55 pm

atv I am sure stox wasn’t referring to little people like you and I, but to the likes of bankers and Company directors who pay themselves vast amounts whilst putting the squeeze on their work force and customers.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by Penderyn on Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:24 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:
We never learn, somehow...

Oh, we learn all right - it is just that our individual voices are drowned out by the tory-owned Noise Machine, so we come to believe everyone else is stupid.


Last edited by Penderyn on Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:17 pm

Since the dawn of Commerce, bosses have been free to pay themselves whatever they think they are worth. The more slathering beasts among them have always regarded Company money as their own, to dispense as they wish.

Effective taxation would reduce the effects of obscene differences in income, but HMRC seem to be in a rather cosy relationship with the Accountancy profession in the belief that half a loaf is better than no bread.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by Redflag on Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:49 pm

astra wrote:Red Flag, Hello and welcome.
I am also a Scot, and have been watching developments and happenings since I "emigrated" to Tyne and Wear in 1980!! Smile


I did not, and cannot say that Salmond is right about anything! My sister lives up near Wick and the things they have promised, started talks then renegged on is unbelievable. (I firmly believe he bathes in the same luke-warm snake oil as Lord Mandelperson!!!)

This is really funny I was born in Newcastle Upon Tyne and emigrated here when I was a teenager and have ben here since went to London for a few years and ended up marring a Scotsman, renegadeing is all Salmond knows this year will be the year that the people will find out they voted for the wrong party there after Glasgow Council in May they do not want it its just to make themselves look big in the eyes of Cameron I think he wants a government job down south, what do you think/
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by Redflag on Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:24 pm

Ivan wrote:Exactly what I’ve been predicting for a long time. I said that if the Tories, so hated in Scotland that they have only one MP, came to power at Westminster again, the Scots would decide that they’d rather go it alone. Apparently, Scottish independence now has majority backing north of the border and in the UK as a whole, according to a new poll.

Research by ComRes for ‘The Independent on Sunday’ and ‘The Sunday Mirror’ found that support for the move had risen sharply over recent months. The results are a boost for First Minister Alex Salmond as his Scottish National Party prepares to hold its autumn conference in Inverness.

In the UK overall, 39% of those surveyed agreed that Scotland should be an independent country - an increase of six points since May. The number disagreeing with the statement had fallen four points to 38%.
In Scotland, the proportion supporting independence was up 11 points over the period at 49%. Some 37% disagreed - down by nine points.

The SNP, which won an unprecedented overall majority in May elections, has promised to hold a referendum on independence towards the end of its five-year term.

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Your quite right the reason Mr Salmond got his majority was because of the Tory Gov't done south Scotland does hate the Tory with a good reason Mrs Thatcher brutalized Scotland we got the Poll Tax first the only thing she did not sell in Scotland was our water thank god for small mercies she took no notice of people when we protested about the poll tax until one year later when England copped it then the riots in Council offices and marches she had to with draw the poll tax. The laugh is the new Tory leader in Scotland thinks because Cameron gave her his approval she will change Scotland's voting habits she has not got a hope in hell they only have one MSP here in and the rest came off the list as the Lib/Dems they are hated here in Scotland also because they are shoring up the Tories, I myself do not want Independence for Scotland I think we will be better off within the UK the old saying United we stand divided we fall so if Labour start getting there finger out and make headway that figure that want Independence will drop like a stone. Don't believe everything that Salmond says he is only out for himself.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by keenobserver1 on Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:40 pm

Redflag wrote:
astra wrote:Red Flag, Hello and welcome.
I am also a Scot, and have been watching developments and happenings since I "emigrated" to Tyne and Wear in 1980!! Smile


I did not, and cannot say that Salmond is right about anything! My sister lives up near Wick and the things they have promised, started talks then renegged on is unbelievable. (I firmly believe he bathes in the same luke-warm snake oil as Lord Mandelperson!!!)

This is really funny I was born in Newcastle Upon Tyne and emigrated here when I was a teenager and have ben here since went to London for a few years and ended up marring a Scotsman, renegadeing is all Salmond knows this year will be the year that the people will find out they voted for the wrong party there after Glasgow Council in May they do not want it its just to make themselves look big in the eyes of Cameron I think he wants a government job down south, what do you think/

Mr Salmond comes across as a very astute politician when dealing with the "Toy Parliament" in Edinburgh, but I don't think he will be the next Lord Melville controlling the Scottish vote in Westminster.

He needs to make noise about full independence every now and again as it's what his party is built upon. However even in the event of a referendum it won't come to pass as it would be an economic disaster for Scotland, as we have an overinflated public sector compared with the private sector. And if you look at what our money is invested in, you may be shocked at how it is squandered rather than creating jobs and attracting investment.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by keenobserver1 on Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:46 pm

Redflag wrote:
Ivan wrote:Exactly what I’ve been predicting for a long time. I said that if the Tories, so hated in Scotland that they have only one MP, came to power at Westminster again, the Scots would decide that they’d rather go it alone. Apparently, Scottish independence now has majority backing north of the border and in the UK as a whole, according to a new poll.

Research by ComRes for ‘The Independent on Sunday’ and ‘The Sunday Mirror’ found that support for the move had risen sharply over recent months. The results are a boost for First Minister Alex Salmond as his Scottish National Party prepares to hold its autumn conference in Inverness.

In the UK overall, 39% of those surveyed agreed that Scotland should be an independent country - an increase of six points since May. The number disagreeing with the statement had fallen four points to 38%.
In Scotland, the proportion supporting independence was up 11 points over the period at 49%. Some 37% disagreed - down by nine points.

The SNP, which won an unprecedented overall majority in May elections, has promised to hold a referendum on independence towards the end of its five-year term.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]




Your quite right the reason Mr Salmond got his majority was because of the Tory Gov't done south Scotland does hate the Tory with a good reason Mrs Thatcher brutalized Scotland we got the Poll Tax first the only thing she did not sell in Scotland was our water thank god for small mercies she took no notice of people when we protested about the poll tax until one year later when England copped it then the riots in Council offices and marches she had to with draw the poll tax. The laugh is the new Tory leader in Scotland thinks because Cameron gave her his approval she will change Scotland's voting habits she has not got a hope in hell they only have one MSP here in and the rest came off the list as the Lib/Dems they are hated here in Scotland also because they are shoring up the Tories, I myself do not want Independence for Scotland I think we will be better off within the UK the old saying United we stand divided we fall so if Labour start getting there finger out and make headway that figure that want Independence will drop like a stone. Don't believe everything that Salmond says he is only out for himself.

Ironically Scottish Water sells water to England!

Strange thing in Scotland, nobody votes Tory and blames all the ills of the country on Thatcher, nobody ever stops and asks what have the other parties done for Scotland?
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by astra on Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:47 pm

SNP got Perth handed to them on a plate, (Cunningham) as Distillers Co closed Dewar's Bottling Plant in Perth, and shifted it to Leith - so as to keep Malcolm Rifkind in a job! (1,500 people jobless in Perth AT A STROKE - remember that one? And NO replacement from 1984 till now)

What did/have the Lib/Dems and Labour do/done? Nowt Nada Zilch!

The only employers in Perth now are the Prison, the Hospital, the Drying out clinic, used to be Murray Royal Hospital (for the mentally troubled/unstable) and the few employed in the Harbour and Matthew Gloag Whisky.

Also closed are - General Accident Fire and Life Assurance Corporation (World HQ), Bells Whisky Offices.

Rifkind "opened" a few companies, "with long term prospects" which all went the same way as Heseltine's Siemens Plant in North Shields.

Tory FAIL FAIL FAIL

LAbour HAD a good time to turn the ship, but only kept their eyes on Canary Wharf, and my fear is, that if Liebour 'get in again,' they will repeat the examples of their last terms 'in office'

Maggie also removed the status of CITY from Perth even though it has two Cathedrals and has been recognised as a city back to Robert Bruce King, who gave a Royal Warrant to the Burghers of the 'City of Perth' that their ships and cargo should not be waylaid by the shippers of Dundee

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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:32 pm

"....if you look at what our money is invested in, you may be shocked at how it is squandered rather than creating jobs...."

To avoid confusion, that reference to "our money" refers to contributions from all British taxpayers.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by keenobserver1 on Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:36 pm

oftenwrong wrote:"....if you look at what our money is invested in, you may be shocked at how it is squandered rather than creating jobs...."

To avoid confusion, that reference to "our money" refers to contributions from all British taxpayers.

We have been one since 1707, have we not?
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:46 pm

Anyone who has ever had even the slightest contact with the Trade Union Movement knows that the proportion of Scots who are Officials heavily outweighs the number of Union members who are Scots. Socialists throughout the UK are grateful for their efforts to gain better working conditions from Employers.

Scotland is virtually a Tory-free zone, but the former dominance of the Labour Party there is steadily eroded by the Nationalist movement, and crunch time will be when Separation is put to the vote.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:50 pm

Which Country in the UK squanders the greatest amount of public funds?
Discuss.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by keenobserver1 on Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:53 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Which Country in the UK squanders the greatest amount of public funds?
Discuss.

It is a statement that could justifiably be attributable to all.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:57 pm

Looks like WE are getting a new trainset to play with.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by keenobserver1 on Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:00 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Looks like WE are getting a new trainset to play with.

Haven't made up my mind onthat one yet, I can see the negative and some positive signs for it. But probably not a good idea when we are skint.
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by astra on Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:15 pm

The highest proportion of union members were from the central belt of Scotland, the coal mines, steel works, shipyards and let's not forget the Rootes car plant.

These union leaders may have had a problem with Maggie, but for the Torys to lay waste to the whole darned country was/is nothing but spite!
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

Post by witchfinder on Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:32 pm

Reading various articles this morning, it is becoming clear that Scottish seperation from the rest of the UK would not be as easy as Alex Salmon face thinks.

The Scottish CBI have repeated a list of very relevant questions which the SNP seem reluctant to answer, mainy what currency would an independent Scotland use, bearing in mind that for the time been the Euro is out of the question.

It seems that an independent Scotland would continue to use the UK pound sterling, this is the answer so far given by the SNP leadership, which basicly means that Scotland would not be independent from an economic perspective.

IF Scotland did seperate from the rest of the UK, and IF they continued using the UK pound, then major economic decisions governing Scotland would continue to be made by the UK treasurey and by the Bank of England in London, there would be strings attached to using the pound, and a new Scottish government would have to stay within UK wide tax and spending plans.

Well Mr Salmond, nothing is as straight forward as you might think
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Re: Is the United Kingdom doomed?

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