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The European Union is costing us more each day

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The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by Frances Fox on Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:26 pm

EU membership now £50m a day
Wednesday, 23rd November 2011

UKIP analysis of the latest figures contained in The Pink Book 2011 (UK's Balance of Payments) clearly show that the UK now sends in excess of £50million every day in contributions to the European Union.

Figures released today for 2009/2010 show that the UK's gross contributions have increased by 5.7%

Gross receipts (payments from Brussels to the UK) shrank between 2009 and 2010. Part of the reason for this was Tony Blair's surrender of the UK's rebate from the EU.

Our net contribution to the EU has rocketed from £6.6billion in 2009 to £10.3billion in 2010.

Last year the Office for Budget Responsibility envisaged £10.3billion as the annual cost of EU membership for 2014. These new figures show that they have grossly underestimated the cost to the UK of EU membership.

The Pink Book 2011 is a summary of balance of payments accounts, which contain detailed statistics for the current account including; trade in goods and services, income, current and capital transfers, transactions in UK external assets and liabilities, and levels of identified assets and liabilities.

Numbers contained in The Pink Book are higher than those from HM Treasury because not all UK payments to and from Brussels transit via HM Treasury. For example, the Department for International Development channels part of its 'overseas aid' direct to institutions by-passing HM Treasury.

Nigel Farage, UKIP Leader, said: "The figures speak for themselves. We are paying more than ever before for our EU membership and are getting less in return.

"This news is a kick in the teeth for the British people who are tightening their belts in these tough times.

"David Cameron has ignored the will of the people by denying them a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU, and now these figures will just rub salt in the wounds. How can the Prime Minister still say it is within our interests to remain in the EU?"

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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by NIN on Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:29 pm

THEY are also killing millions of (black)people with starvation by forcing the rest of us to throw away food THEY wont allow us to eat.,,,,Hitler would be real proud.
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:49 pm

Believing unaudited figures that emerge from the Brussels cesspit may be the first indication of mental disorder.
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by ROB on Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:55 pm


Frances Fox,

So why does the UK remain in the EU? I don’t “get it.” This from an American USV who once supported from afar your country’s joining the EU.
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by jackthelad on Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:16 pm

Rock says,
So why does the UK remain in the EU? I don’t “get it.” This from an American USV who once supported from afar your country’s joining the EU.

Neither do we get it, we had a referendum for joining the Common Market, then there were only half a dozen countries involved, it was trading only.
I voted against, preferred our commonwealth friends to Europe, now, they dare not allow us to have a referendum, because the British people would vote to get out of the European Union. We never signed up for the way things are now, it was bad enough being dictated to over agriculture when it was just the common market.
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by Frances Fox on Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:32 pm

America wanted Britain to join the EEC,EC & EU so that they good have their pennysworth through our country. I often wonder if that is how Edward Heath got a yacht.

The referendum for the Common Market only got 32% stating YES which in my opinion was not enough to take us into the EEC in the first place

I too voted against the EEC and am disgusted that because the three main parties do not want to leave the EU we are not allowed an referedum.

If only I could go to the House of Commons and give them a 'MRS' speech.
'
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by jackthelad on Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:50 pm

Francis Fox says,
The referendum for the Common Market only got 32% stating YES which in my opinion was not enough to take us into the EEC in the first place

I don't know how many turned out to vote, but as they say in the Houses of Parliament, The AYES have it. The NO's where beaten, if the ayes only got 32% that means under 32% said no, with the rest abstaining.
I do believe if a person of voting age is too idle to turn out and vote they should be fined. Half the population fought hard to get the vote, (the ladies i mean) not voting just shows contempt for the rest that votes. If they don't like what is on a ballet paper, then spoil it, you are recording a vote for something.
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by ROB on Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:10 am


Various US administrations, Republican and Democratic, have perpetrated some awful evils on the world through myopic vision and “penny-wise, pound-foolish) economic/political policies.

One reason for my triple vote for then Untied States Senator Barack Hussein Obama in 2008 (I disagree with and oppose many of his domestic policies) was my “past-fed-up” disgust with the results of this penny-wise myopia. Add one more piece of male bovine solid waste to the pile.

To those who routinely bash the US, I do not and will not support the types of US policies mentioned by Frances Fox. A weaker UK is a weaker US.
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by Frances Fox on Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:11 am

I had no intenton of bashing the US though I do not like their governments I always like the American people. Also I do not forget that their men come to our aid in the 2nd world war long before American Government got involved .
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by blueturando on Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:34 pm

It’s simple really!!! The politicians want us to remain in the EU for their own financial gain and status.
Being part of this club where Billions of pounds are pumped in, never to be seen or heard of again because of irregular Accounting, Fraud and immense wastage is very appealing to many politicians and major business owners across Europe and beyond, who no doubt benefit financially from cozying up to the politicos…..Heaven forbid, there may even be a peerage in it for them ( mentioning no names…Lord Sweetner).

All was going swimmingly for the political establishment until they got too greedy too quickly. Too many countries with unstable economies joined…The one size fits all philosophy was stretched at the seams and then it all came crashing down with the financial crisis in 2008. Unfortunately our politicians are too scared to pull out even when they know the deal is not a good one for Britain. The EU was set up to be a good deal for Germany and France…the rest of us would just have to fight over the scraps…and scraps is all that’s left.

What do we get for our £50 Million a day?? Please don’t tell me trade because we traded very well under the old Common Market system. We would still trade with the EU if we were outside the Union and our politicians know it. Im sure China and similar nations do a brisk trade with the EU without being part of ‘the club’. If anyone can enlighten me on what you get for 50mil a day from the EU, I would be delighted to hear from them

There is not a hope in hell that any of the 3 main parties will give us a referendum and if any of them promise one AGAIN in a run up to an election…Then it should be written in law that they must honour that pledge within 6 months of taking office or a new snap election will be called

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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by witchfinder on Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:35 pm

"Lies, more lies, even worse lies, and then theres statistics"

I dont know who said it, but its a fairly well known quote often used, the worst examples of quoting false facts and figures are where numbers are rounded up or rounded down, and UKIP were guilty of printing false information on millions of election addresses at the last Euro elections in 2009.

The UKIP claim in 2009 was that "Britain is paying the EU £40 million per day" - the latest figures available at that time were estimates for 2008 which turned out to be accurate at £13.7 billion which equates to £37.5 million per day ( UKIP obviously rounded this figure up by £2.5 million per day ).

But just wait a god damn cotton pickin moment ( as our American friends would say )

The figure of £37.5 million per day which UKIP rounded up to £40 million did not take into account all moneys which come back in way of the rebate and capital investments and expenditures, when all comes to all the actual daily amount worked out at £12.6 million per day ( Net Contribution ) - a slight difference to UKIPs £40 million wouldent you say. ?












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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by astra on Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:19 pm

But just wait a god damn cotton pickin moment ( as our American friends would say )

The figure of £37.5 million per day which UKIP rounded up to £40 million did not take into account all moneys which come back in way of the rebate and capital investments and expenditures, when all comes to all the actual daily amount worked out at £12.6 million per day ( Net Contribution ) - a slight difference to UKIPs £40 million wouldent you say. ?


MY Brain Hurts!!

SO you are saying that the EU sends £24,9 million a day BACK to US???

(If we pay £37,5 million a day, and the actual cost to us is £12,6 million a day I think I have my sums aright!)

That £24,6 million a day would be easily covered even if we were not in the EU AND,, AND, We would accrue the intrest on the £12.6 million per day - that has to be a sizeable sum! and it would be all ours! Does Jose Manuel Barosso refund THAT to us as well?

Where you getting these figures? seeing as how the EU has not signed off it's books for the last how many years?
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by witchfinder on Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:33 pm

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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by astra on Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:55 pm

However, the most recent Treasury Report on the UK’s EU budget contributions (PDF) shows the following GROSS figures:


Above s a quote from the link.


I can pick up figures from Tom, Dick and Harry on the internet, it is the EU's OWN figures I am intrested in.

I do not trust the treasury, as figures will be massaged to fullfill their particular point at that time.
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by Frances Fox on Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:10 pm

Witchfinder am sending your message to UKIP. As for getting money back more often than not Britain has to match it and obey the EU on how it is spent.

The EU have not signed off their accounts for years so may I suggest you contact them and ask why? It would be interesting if they reply.

By the way have you ever looked at Marta Andreson's website who was derided because she would not sign off the books you will find it interesting.
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by Ivan on Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:29 pm

The idea of European unity was obviously attractive after the Second World War, which was the worst case of centuries of conflict in the continent. However, and with hindsight, the idea of monetary union without fiscal, and probably political, union was never going to work. I hear today that Sarkozy and Merkel have virtually admitted that if the Italian economy goes belly-up, the euro is finished.

It's hardly surprising therefore that in the latest YouGov poll, UKIP has recorded 8% support, only one point behind the Lib Dems. Yet rightly or wrongly, UKIP is perceived as a far-right party whose main appeal will always be to disgruntled right-wing Tories. If the leadership of UKIP has real political nous, it will target its policies so that it can hoover up those disillusioned Lib Dem supporters who haven't already deserted to Labour, but to do that it will have to make its policies (other than EU withdrawal) much more acceptable to the middle ground in UK politics.
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:51 pm

If we don't learn from History we'll never learn anything.
The Franco-Prussian War of 1870, the World War of 1914-1918 and Second World War of 1939-1945 led to a determination to try and unite Europe, first by the European Coal Community, then the European Free Trade Area, followed by the European Economic Community and currently the EU, which is rather more of a pious hope than a binding Unity.
The stumbling block is still sovereignty. Each member nation wants to continue making its own Laws, following its customs and setting its own price-levels.

Any ideas how to overcome that little problem?
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by astra on Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:55 pm

Pershing?
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by Frances Fox on Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:12 am

The Chancellor spoke that after appearing on the Andrew Marr show he has to go to Brussels. Don't tell me he is going to obey them and give more money to the EU or will he fight to stop them taking over The City of London Finance which they want to do even though we are not in the Euro. Enough is enough and it needs to be stopped otherwise this country getting more and more into debt for what to destroy out country altogether.
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:03 pm

Ancient aphorism from an 1864 speech by Abraham Lincoln, (in reply to a Delegation from the National Union League who were urging him to be their presidential candidate).

'An old Dutch farmer, remarked to a companion once that it was not best to swap horses when crossing streams."

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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by Frances Fox on Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:54 pm

Ivan, Thought you might like to see the answer I received from a UKIP member to your message re UKIP policies.
..................................
The writer should take the time to read our manifesto. It is our long term intention to replace the Lib Dems as the third party in British politics and the polls show us on the way to doing just that. We have positioned ourselves as a libertarian, anti-big government party, which is where the Liberal Democrats should be but are not. They have thrown in their lot with the Tories, which is destroying their credibility and could cause meltdown in their support at the next General Election. We are in a good position to scoop up their votes. In relation to Labour voters, my ex father in law was a hardened Labour supporter, he is now with us and attended the Nigel Farage public meeting in Hornchurch on Thursday night. Need I say more?
.......................................................

Ivan, you can go on to www.ukip.org and check the policies - Frances
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by witchfinder on Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:43 pm

I genuinely and sincerely hope that UKIP will indeed replace the Lib Dems as the third party of the country, not because I support UKIP ( I dont ), but because I relish the idea of the Lib Dems been relegated to a minority party.

The rise in support for UKIP has not come from unhappy Lib Dem voters, the Liberal Democrats are the most pro-European of all the main parties, it is therefore highly unlikely that a Lib Dem supporter would switch to UKIP.

I also relish the idea of two right of centre political partys as this in effect would give an automatic boost to Labour, splitting the Conservatives and thereby reducing their chances of winning seats and elections.



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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by astra on Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:07 pm

Witchfinder, I don't mind your blind following of all things new labour.



I wonder why, a grown man throws his weight behind ministers - people who admitted they did NOTHING for the North East of England, as they did not want to be accused of favouratism!!

Blair, Mandelperson, both Millibands, ALL kept their heads down during ALL that time in "power"

NONE are from this area, none have ANY allegiance to this area, ALL have made great wadges of cash for themselves and done diddly squat for this wonderful area (I am Scottish remember!) and it's lively people.

To treat their job with so much contempt, disdain and ignorance, yet still be worshipped puts them in the same reverence as the Dalai LLama!

None desrve being urinated on if on fire!

The area expects bad treatment from the Torys, and we get it! in bucket loads, but to be treated by labour the same way when this is the heart of labour support is just beyond all to me!
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by witchfinder on Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:44 pm

I have met two cabinet ministers in my lifetime, both times were right here on my doorstep, one was my own MP and the other was an MP for a constituency not very far away, one was Labour and the other Conservative.

I met Sir Leon Brittan QC MP at a fete, he was surrounded by local top brass conservatives, chairman of the local association, councillors and dignitries with titles, honourable mrs somebody or other, it was all very jolly and pleasant and FALSE, no ordinary person could get even remotely close to our MP.

I met Mo Mowlam at the annual Egton agricultural show, she was in the beer tent, beer in one hand and surrounded by ordinary local people, she was swapping jokes with a group of lads from town, she was clearly in her element, loving it.

The problem with the Conservatives is they try too hard to be one of the lads, they are rather like Billy no mates, they just dont live in the real world.
Whether it be William Hague and his attempt to look cool with a baseball cap, or millionaire aristocrat Cameron claiming that "were all in this together" - it just dosent work.

As for the Liberal Democrats, well the last 18 months has proved one thing more than anything else beyond doubt - they are opportunists of the first degree, the poor old people of Redcar are kicking themselves, and poor old Mo Mowlam will be turning in her grave, god bless her.
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by astra on Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:07 pm

UKIP for me now!

I met Sir Nicholas Fairbairn MP QC a number of times and was always the perfect friend - not a bit "standoffish" He was the LAST of the old guard of real MPs in it for the task undertaken. He was also Procurator Fiscal for Perthshire, so stood at both sides of the bench.

The labour MPs I have found here to be all in the most, toffee nosed aloof and more like their Tory "enemys"

You could say the Tyne Tunnel 2 (TT2) was a labour idea. Paid for by the EC (ergo, our OWN money) Designed, built and now operated by the French, but suppose the Torys will claim some reward for it's building.

So many thing need doing here, the constructing of a new M1 from Newcastle upon Tyne to Berwick upon Tweed (all 74 miles of it!) would go a LOOOOONG way to helping this side of England as ALL traffic north takes the M6 or farther up takes the A66 over to the M6 missing out this area all together. Business in Ashington, Wansbeck and Blyth is stark indeed. This bringing traffic and people to the North would also help Yorkshire.
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:56 pm

A well-worn syllogism tells us that we get the Government we deserve, which may well be true. It may also be true that we don't deserve any kind of government because we don't care enough about it. As Ivan has pointed out elsewhere, British ruling parties never enjoy a majority from the electorate because a sizeable proportion of the electorate never votes anyway.

Contrast that with today's News reports from Cairo, of voters queueing two hours before Polling Stations opened (and then waiting another two hours while someone found the voting papers).
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by True Blue on Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:04 pm

oftenwrong wrote:A well-worn syllogism tells us that we get the Government we deserve, which may well be true. It may also be true that we don't deserve any kind of government because we don't care enough about it. As Ivan has pointed out elsewhere, British ruling parties never enjoy a majority of the electorate because a huge proportion of the electorate never votes anyway.

Contrast that with today's News reports from Cairo, of voters queueing two hours before Polling Stations opened (and then waiting another two hours while someone found the voting papers).

You can't contrast the two. One is accustomed to decade upon decade of free and legal votes and the other is about to have their first free and legal vote after more than 40 years without same.

In Australia almost all voters turn up to have their say... because it's compulsory with fines for non compliance... yet still we managed to get a minority parliament with no clear mandate.
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:13 pm

The UKIP conference passed almost unremarked on this Forum last week.
Do we think they are irrelevant - or alternatively that their eventual dominance is inevitable?
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:33 pm

There are two people who have the ability to make David Cameron rather nervous -

Boris

and

Nigel
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:55 pm

Those who fail to learn the lessons of History are condemned to repeat the mistakes.

It's now common knowledge that Greece used rather creative accountancy to justify its entry into the Eurozone, and the inevitable result has created a few wrinkles in the collective brow in Brussels.

Croatia is on the verge of being admitted, and nobody who knows how to calculate 2 + 2 is under any illusion that its national treasury might be equal to the task. Negotiations are under way to allow plucky little Croatia to have a loan arrangement from the ECB.

How quaint!
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Benefits for EU migrants with children abroad

Post by tlttf on Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:24 pm

I can assume everybody thinks this is okay then?


Illegal to block benefits for EU migrants with children abroad
Savings needed: The UK is set to see a flood of arrivals from Bulgaria and Romania next year

Joe Murphy Political Editor

04 March 2013

Ministers have been told they cannot stop EU citizens from claiming child benefit for children who do not even live in the UK, the Evening Standard has learned.

Lawyers have ruled out a string of proposed schemes designed to allow the Government to refuse to pay out for children living in countries like Poland and the Czech Republic.

Among the schemes mooted by ministers were insisting that children live in the UK before they qualify for benefits. Another was to pay benefits at the much looser rates payable in the countries where the children live.

But a source said: “Everything ministers have suggested has been tested by the lawyers and deemed to be illegal.”

The equivalent to child benefit in Poland is worth around £20 a month. In the UK it is £81.20 for the first child and £53.60 for subsequent children.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/illegal-to-block-benefits-for-eu-migrants-with-children-abroad-8519219.html

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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by blueturando on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:46 pm

TLTTF.....Maybe people who want to keep these unfair and unjust EU laws should be made to pay these benefits to children abroad themsleves. I am sure they won't be so happy then. At least with UKIP UK tax payers money will be used for our own citizens needs

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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by tlttf on Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:45 pm

If you go around saying things like that blue you'll get called a little englander (if your lucky) or a fascist nazi from some. Very Happy

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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:25 pm

blueturando wrote:TLTTF.....Maybe people who want to keep these unfair and unjust EU laws should be made to pay these benefits to children abroad themsleves. I am sure they won't be so happy then. At least with UKIP UK tax payers money will be used for our own citizens needs

Would anybody care to quantify just how much wealthier we shall feel if UKIP is successful in separating Britain from the Continent?
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by tlttf on Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:30 pm

Would that be gross or net OW and should we add some to it for the removal of red tape so beloved by socialists?

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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:45 pm

"....removal of red tape so beloved by socialists?"

If only it were restricted to a single political party. Dave told us in his election address that he would sweep away the Quangos.

Name a quango that has been disbanded. ONE will do. I can list half a dozen new ones that have sprung into existence since 2010.
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by Ivan on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:14 pm

Maybe people who want to keep these unfair and unjust EU laws should be made to pay these benefits to children abroad themsleves.
blueturando. Interesting line of argument. So you think we should all be able to pick and choose what we pay for? If I don't want to contribute towards the initial cost of replacing Trident (around £20 billion), I can be let off? If I don't want to subsidise the life of luxury of a family who for many generations have been mega benefit scroungers in this country (the Windsors, in case you hadn't guessed), then I should be exempted?

Meanwhile, back in the real world......
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by blueturando on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:44 am

I agree Ivan, maybe the tax payer shopuld have a menu on what their taxes can and cannot be spent on and it would up to the politicians to make their case for funds...Why not?

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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by Ivan on Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:52 am

blue. What you're suggesting sounds complicated and might be a bureaucratic nightmare to sort out. However, if OW gets his way and we have direct democracy via the internet, instead of the Westminster Parliament - who knows?
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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

Post by Jsmythe on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:35 pm

That's an interesting idea Ivan - Democracy via internet instead of Parliament.

It is also well highlighted that those who are running the E.U. are all unelected. As our UKIP gentleman Farage and others have been saying. How can a public vote them out if they themselves choose behind closed doors the governing group?

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Re: The European Union is costing us more each day

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