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Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

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Thatcher changed Britain for the worse - Page 12 Empty Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Ivanhoe Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

Through the Thatcher Major, years, millions of British people were made poor as a matter of policy, while others got rich as a matter of policy.

Blair and Brown embraced Thatcherism due to the change in the British, and now Milliband wants to change Labour again due to a changed Britain.

I personally long for a political party that sticks to it's core values, that has conviction, that does not change itself to suit a greedy selfish uncaring British populas who'se only thought is "self". In my view this "self" is mainly among the British middle classes.

Thatcher changed Britain for the worse, and now we are reaping through this dreadful coalition, what has been sown.
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Post by Tosh Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:44 am

Perhaps we should be pleased that the current unemployed total is ONLY Three Million Britons of working age. Tory policy is self-evidently to starve people into submission.

Which part of the developed world recession that has been with us for 5 years, do you not know about ?

Why do people think our local democracies can avoid the unemployment effect of economic downturns when they have already maxed out the credit card.


Last edited by Tosh on Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Tosh Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:54 am

How fortunate we are to enjoy the benefit of such distilled wisdom.

To most it was common sense, but not to you, I get it, no need for the condescension, you need to get out more and meet the real world out there.
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Post by Tosh Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:12 pm

I will give you all an insight into human nature influenced by 20th century socialism that beggars belief.

I bought a company of engineers and took on the service of its employees, most were 10 years or more. After about 5 years one of the employees asked me to release him from his contract to work overtime to start up a driving instructor business. I agreed that I would do this for 3 months so he could establish himself and then he would either leave or return to working overtime.

3 months passed and his business was doing well enough for him to leave, he then insisted I make him REDUNDANT on the grounds of his loyal service !!

This clown thought he was entitled to 8k out of my pocket for leaving my company of his own accord.

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Post by oftenwrong Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:18 pm

Presumably the clown had already made his own mind up about what sort of person he thought you might be.
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Post by Tosh Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:42 pm

Presumably the clown had already made his own mind up about what sort of person he thought you might be.

His presumptions demonstrate what type of person he was, nothing to do with me.
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Post by Redflag Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:58 pm

Tosh wrote:Why did Labour not tackle the chronic shortage of social housing when it was in power for 13 years and we were rolling in money ?

Why did Labour not nationalize all the energy cartels ?

Tosh that is one of the things that the Labour party got wrong not building more council homes after Thatcher EFFING sold most of them, and stopped the councils from building any more to replace the ones sold. As for the energy companies OW put his finger on that one the money that would be needed to nationalize them again would run into Trillions, most of what the OLD WITCH Thatcher done to the public sector ASSESTS sold them to Tory donors friends in the banking sector and others that she favoured.

Now Cameron wants the public to pay for her funeral which will cost us around £10 Million, and according to the same person the country is skint freezes on public sector workers pay cuts to benefits for the working and the unemployed. cheers cheers
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Post by Redflag Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:06 pm

Tosh wrote:
Can anyone recall what it purchased?

Freedom from union control, democracy and the ability to react to globalisation.

If we had not dumped our loss making experiment of excessive nationalization then we would be still be in the 70s, just like Cuba.

Can we even imagine a nationalized car industry in 2013 ?

The same Unions that had to fight for decent wages for their members Tosh, why do you think the Welfare Bill is so high because the private sector WILL NOT pay a wage that people can live on pay there bills and put food on the table for their families. Just to throw a spanner in your argument about nationalized industries when National Express gave the keys back to the East Coast train line it was taken back into the public sector and has made profit first year it was £200.Million pounds and last year was £240 Million so if the nationalized sector is run correctly they can make profits that can be then put where the money is needed.
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Post by Redflag Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:27 pm

blueturando wrote:I don't need to post a link for everything Ivan, I just lived through it...that was enough

So did Millions of others live through it if that is your take on it blue, I would not people scraped through it I worked during her reign of terror 40 hour week for £70.00 per week and that was before tax an NI was taken off, bringing up three kids on my own it was very tough and I will never forgive her or the Tory gov't because by the end of the month we had to go hungry but all my household bills where paid and I did not have any debt of any kind not unless you class gas electric debt, did not have a phone so no bills there.

I hope the song from the Wizard of Oz gets to number ONE DING DONG THE WICKED WITCH IS DEAD before her funeral, and I BEGRUDGE the money we will have to pay for her funeral if it was left to most of the UK we would put her in a black bin bag and toss her down one of the mines she closed even that is too good for her.

Do not go on about RESPECT for the dead blue, she had NONE for the majority of the UK during her life WHY SHOULD WE HAVE ANY FOR HER IN DEATH

DING DONG SHE IS GONE lol! lol! THIS IS WHAT I WILL BE DOING ON WEDNESDAY
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Post by Tosh Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:28 pm

The private sector cannot pay high wages because to do so would damage their export market share or encourage foreign investors to move elsewhere, both outcomes create unemployment,which part of the free market do you not comprehend.

I have no problems with unions fighting for fair wages, unfortunately profits and the market not the unions determines what a fair wage is.

A nationalised monopoly can make money when there is no competition, this is not an advert for nationalisation nor monopolies.
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Post by Mel Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:40 pm

Improper use of authority by a woman who has that authority because she held public office.
This very much relates to Thatcher's situation in office. As with Adolf she came at a time of upheaval in her country, brought about firstly by previous Tory governments who like Thatcher were hell bent on returning our country back to how it was before and during Victorian times.

IMO we now suffer for many of her ghastly measures and policies all railroaded through with no thought whatsoever for concequences that these policies/measures would bring not only to this country as a whole but to the majority of the general public, save the rich and wealthy.
Privatisation was and is and always will be on a Tory agenda. It caters for profit at the expense of the majority for the financial benefit of the wealthy shareholders. Nationalization on the other hand can also produce profits which return to the people indirectly rather than the minority wealthy shareholders. These wealthy shareholders are the only people Tory politicians represent under a cloak of so called "fairnes and respectability".
To destroy this countries manufacturing base, crushing the miners and the Unions in the process, she had craftily in conference with Ronald Reagen decided to de-regulate the City Banking/ Finance sector to make up for the great loss of tax revenue thus being lost.

Yes, Communistic infiltration into our Union base had occured and unrest for wage demands was created. The dogmatic approach to Nationalized industry wage claims by the Tory government in the 50's did not help the situation.

CONTINUED---
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Post by Mel Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:43 pm


The UK's mania for privatisation of industries such as rail, nuclear and utilities has led to important British assets being nationalised by a foreign government. EDF, a French state company, owns nuclear power group British Energy, along with several local electricity franchises; the Dutch state railway owns chunks of our network, German state telecoms company Deutsche Telekom bought T-Mobile in the UK and Deutsche Post has a licence to deliver letters here. Then there are the sovereign wealth funds controlled by foreign governments, which bought chunks of Barclays Bank, P&O's ports and Manchester City football club.

Labour Party pushed through the 1949 Iron and Steel Act, which transferred the right to run the industry to the Iron and Steel Board. However, the delay that the Conservative-dominated House of Lords could operate, meant that the board did not come into operation until 1951.
Did nationalisation change anything? For miners, there were clear improvements. The National Coal Board offered paid holidays, sick pay and rest homes for miners to recover after mining accidents. Safety also became an important issue. But the pay of miners did not improve as the strikes in the coal mines clearly indicated.
To avoid the claim that these industries were mere tools for the government, Labour introduced what were called boards, or public corporations, to run these industries. The boards were given the necessary freedom to operate outside of government ‘interference’ and they were only indirectly answerable to Parliament. Though the Conservatives had opposed nationalisation and had championed private ownership, when they returned to power in the 1950’s, they did not de-nationalise these industries (road transport excepted). This was to only occur in the 1980’s and 1990’s.
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Post by Ivan Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:12 pm

Tosh wrote:-
Thatcher will correctly go down in history as the PM who restored democracy and individual liberty to this country
Thatcher was no friend of democracy. She was an elected dictator who tolerated no dissent in her own cabinet, sacking a Foreign Secretary for saying that he didn’t think electoral landslides were good for democracy, and sacking another minister for referring to her as “the blessed Margaret”. She poured scorn on moderates by calling them “wets”, judged people according to whether or not they were “one of us”, and regularly pronounced that “there is no alternative” to the destructive policies she inflicted on this nation. That’s not democracy, there are always alternatives.

Thatcher abolished the metropolitan councils and the Greater London Council for the simple reason that they were Labour-controlled. Because of her, London was, for fourteen years, the only major city in the Western world without its own elected assembly. She transferred many of the functions of the GLC to quangos – how democratic is that? She emasculated the rest of local government, taking more power to the centre with measures such as rate-capping. Maybe we shouldn’t be surprised; as Jeremy Hardy once said: “Conservatives have never truly been convinced by this country’s experiment with universal suffrage”. It’s only to be expected that the turnout for council elections will be low, when councils were left with so little ability to make a difference.

There’s nothing democratic about selling off state assets, which were accountable to Parliament, and placing them in the hands of corporations, out of reach of democratic scrutiny. What was democratic about creating private water monopolies? What was democratic about pandering to Murdoch and the handful of other oligarchs who control our media? We don’t have a free press, we have a bought press.

The trade unions which Thatcher so hated were, and are, a lot more democratic than those private corporations. There are 6.5 million trade union members in the UK, hoping to have some employment rights, some job security and a living wage. Back in the 1970s, most people could live on their wages and not have to receive top-ups from the state. Thatcher’s policies unbalanced the economy and things have never been the same since. If a person working a full-time job can’t survive without state assistance in the seventh richest country in the world, there’s something very very wrong.

Thatcher didn’t support democracy in South Africa, where she opposed sanctions against apartheid. She didn’t support democracy in Chile, where she made a personal friend of the murderer and torturer Pinochet, primarily because, like Ronald Reagan, he was a fellow disciple of Milton Friedman. Pinochet overthrew the democratically-elected President Allende and had him shot at his desk. (Nice company that evil woman kept – Pinochet, Jeffrey Archer, Savile and some Tory paedophiles; it’s hardly surprising that her son turned out to be a criminal.)

Thatcher didn’t do anything with the intention of helping the ordinary people of this country. If the bribe of a council house and some cheap shares happened to benefit someone, it was just a by-product of getting her some votes and pursuing her nasty, vicious right-wing ideology. She was a fanatic whose crazy belief that “you can’t buck the market” was shown to be a total disaster when free-market capitalism crashed in 2008. The credit crunch was the ultimate failure of Thatcherism. Let’s hope that it will be buried with her.
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Post by oftenwrong Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:02 pm

How insidious the brain-washing effect of Thatcher's propaganda was, is demonstrated in the words, " But the pay of miners did not improve as the strikes in the coal mines clearly indicated."

The Miners' strikes were against the closure of coalmines (and therefore in support of their jobs). Wages were not a factor in that dispute.
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Post by Mel Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:25 pm

Indeed OW, wages were not a factor at that point but had been in the past under Tory governments.
In a similar context, the sale of Council houses was a way of assisting Tory Councils in their complaints that the upkeep and cost of same and the work involved in rent collection became a thorn in the side as did the miners. The answer therefore was to get rid of them.
Mercinary and unforgiveable.
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Post by oftenwrong Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:35 pm

Given a free choice, one might suspect that a Tory Government would prefer to eliminate poor people altogether.

Transportation to Australia doesn't seem to have worked.
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Post by Mel Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:40 pm

Na!!!!!!! they wouldn't "eliminate" their slave labour prospecs OW.
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Post by Mel Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:44 pm

I see Sir Geoffrey Howe and that scoundrel Tarzan will be attending the funeral. Crying or Very sad Unfortunately for this country they both took action too late in ridding us of this evil Witch.
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Post by astradt1 Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:09 pm

Does anyone remember what the minimum number of shares that could be bid for in the 'Tell Sid' British Gas sell off?

What was the 'average' wage at the time?

How many hows, days, or weeks would it have taken to have the money to pay for those shares?
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Post by Tosh Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:30 pm

Lets be clear here, as someone who was at the sharp end of manufacturing involving anything to do with metal, Britain did not have a manufacturing base, Britain had a loss making and inefficient manufacturing base that was subsidized by the British tax payer.

I would put the productivity rate at less than half of a private company, and the union wages drove up wages in the private sector that made profitability marginal.

My factory was less than a few miles from Ravenscraig and it was a corrupt joke.
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Post by oftenwrong Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:17 pm

If established Companies were loss-making, it was largely due to galloping inflation. Prices moved ahead of wages, with a predictable result.

Successive Tory administrations allowed 15% to 20% erosion of people's spending-power.
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Post by Mel Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:54 pm

The relevence of the happenings of a small time metal manufacturing employer has little bearing upon the demise our once great steel industry.

In any case Britain HAD a manufacturing base and even if metal manufacturing was unprofitable which I doubt, there were many more industries and utilities either sold off closed or privatised unnecesarily, that were profitable.
Rail and utilities that were provided for the people by the people kept the employment wheels turning with costs to the consumer low. Now it has become a ripp off that affects only the poor and those eneavouring to get to their jobs.

Seeing as other countries have made a success of Nationalzation and encompassing our industries and indeed our utilities it is their taxpayers who are benefiting at our expense and as a result of Thatcher's power surge and ego.

"I would put the productivity rate at less than half of a private company"
FACTS--NOT FICTION PLEASE. There's a good chap. Lets be clear here.
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Post by Tosh Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:08 pm

FACTS--NOT FICTION PLEASE. There's a good chap. Lets be clear here.

Ravenscraig doubled output with a smaller workforce the year before it closed......FACT.

This metal basher employed over a period of 25 years hundreds of tradesmen, if they came from a nationalised company they were out in 2 weeks, useless the lot of them.

INSTEAD OF YOU MAKING SHIT UP , NEXT TIME ASK THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY WORKED IN THE INDUSTRIES YOU FANTASIZE ABOUT.
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Post by Tosh Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:12 pm

Armchair socialists who never went near a piece of moving machinery, when you hand a man a drawing with a machining time against it and he faints, you know he has lived a sheltered life.

I was being polite in saying half production, in reality it was less, you people haven't a clue what you are talking about.
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Post by Tosh Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:26 pm

If established Companies were loss-making, it was largely due to galloping inflation. Prices moved ahead of wages, with a predictable result.

Another yo-yo who wouldn't know a balance sheet if you stuffed it up his nose, how many companies have you owned or ran Mr Sage ?
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Post by Phil Hornby Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:16 pm

Is Wednesday17th April 2013 the ultimate 'good day to bury bad news'...?
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Post by Mel Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:33 pm

"This metal basher employed over a period of 25 years hundreds of tradesmen, if they came from a nationalised company they were out in 2 weeks, useless the lot of them. "

Read the post properly Mr, then you will see that I mentioned industries other than steel works. I suppose you will be telling us you have had 25yrs experience in all the other industries/utilities as well.

I'm amazed they bothered to stay for two whole weeks. No skilled workers would wish to continue to work for dogmatic slave drivers, now would they?

Talking of "corrupt jokers" your Witch was one, along with her bent son, only neither were funny at all.
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Post by Mel Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:36 pm

"Is Wednesday17th April 2013 the ultimate 'good day to bury bad news'...?"

PERFECT PHIL!!!! Along with all that was bad.
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Post by Mel Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:41 pm


"INSTEAD OF YOU MAKING SHIT UP"

That statement says it ALL about the writer!!!!
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Post by oftenwrong Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:28 pm

Tosh wrote:
If established Companies were loss-making, it was largely due to galloping inflation. Prices moved ahead of wages, with a predictable result.

Another yo-yo who wouldn't know a balance sheet if you stuffed it up his nose, how many companies have you owned or ran Mr Sage ?

Only a total loser could be quite so eager to demonstrate ignorance. Do the letters FCA and ATII have any significance in your suffocating little world, Tosh? If you have to look it up, don't bother since the answer is already clear.



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Post by Ivan Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:03 am

Tosh. When you’re in a discussion with Christians on the religion board about what did or didn’t happen 2,000 years ago, you expect them to provide proof of their various assertions, which of course they can’t. Rock clearly knows the Bible inside out, while you, Shirina and snowyflake provide him with formidable and well argued rebuttals, and it all results in quite a high standard of debate.

When anyone makes a statement about the politics of the present or comparatively recent past, it should be possible to at least support it with some corroborating evidence. I’ve challenged your assertion that Thatcher “restored democracy” and provided a few facts to back up my argument. I doubt if anyone in this discussion about the effects of Thatcher is “making things up”, but anecdotes, observations and memories from many years ago wouldn’t be acceptable to you if they had come from the gospel writers, would they?

P.S. Writing whole sentences in block capitals is tantamount to shouting and merely gives the impression that you might be losing the plot. Shocked
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Post by methought Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:41 am

Which part of the developed world recession that has been with us for 5 years, do you not know about ?

How about looking at where it all started?

First read Sir Brian Griffiths' book about morality and the markets, or somesuch. He was chairman of the Bank of England under Thatcher and he had grave concerns that free markets were far too much 'and the devil take the hindmost'.

The book will give a feeling about the special relationship which Reagan had with Margaret which persuaded her to sell us all down the river.

To go back a bit before that re Bello's book called 'Dark Victory' and no it isn't about Batman, it's about the deliberate impoverishment of the third world by putting them into debt, a debt they could never pay off, which would just lead to spiralling poverty and selling off all their national assets, cheap.

It was okay for Latin America but is it now okay for us?

To refloat the banks we have saddled our nation with trillions of pounds of unrepayable debt therefore the poor must be made poorer to stop them buying stuff. Payday loan companies can speed up the progress towards total destitution and those money bandits can stockpile gold while debt trading is the only game in town. And the bankers refused to disclose facts to the government on the grounds that it would make them 'less competitive'. Whose money are they paying themselves bonuses out of? Is it the savings of savers, the pension funds people have paid into, or the profit and losses of companies who must suffer the vagaries of the share trading market? Whose money do they pay themselves with?

Thatcher has the current economic system to answer for. It is designed to impoverish people by getting them into debt and then taking everything from them at knock-down prices - every bailiff knows that on every council estate in Britain.

Where is the credible political opposition?
Doh!

There is none.
Except perhaps Glenda Jackson.
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Post by methought Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:47 am

I would put the productivity rate at less than half of a private company, and the union wages drove up wages in the private sector that made profitability marginal.

I'm not arguing with this, though, the nationalised industries were taking the piss and Thatcher put a stop to that. It doesn't make her a heroine though to the families and communities that lost everything, and who now live in the industrial wastelands of former heavy industries.
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Post by ROB Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:45 am


To ensure clarity on my part, I was an “eyewitness” to the Falklands War, via multiple updates per hour on CNN. My impressions of Thatcher almost exclusively revolve around the British response to Argentinian junta bullies subjugating more than 2,000 British citizens without those citizens’ permission. The UK, with its Royal Navy and Royal Air Force shredded down to third world size by nearly thirty years of neglect and disdain by successive democratically elected governments, did not possess the ability to do a whole lot about it.

The British people, however, possessed that ability in spades. Against all odds, British aviators flying something like 22 Sea Harriers, subsonic strike/close support fighters, dropped Argentine French-made Mirage fighter out of the Falkland skies like flies hit with Raid. No seaside amphibious liberation of Port Stanley was feasible, and crossing over East Falkland Island from its west coast to liberate Port Stanley from the land side was impossible, so Para’s and Royal Marines crossed over East Falkland Island from its west coast and liberated Port Stanley from the land side. Thatcher, in this chapter of British history, was the voice Americans heard say, in effect, “Hell NO!”

Perhaps living in the Americas with jacked-up juntas the norm on the mainland outside of the US and Canada, I can’t help but cheer when a resolute people put those posturing bully jack-asses in their place, which is out to pasture in a barren, waterless land/

I also know that Thatcher helped Reagan and Gorbachev to keep talking, and the world is less a whole lot of nukes as a result. In fact, shortly after Reagan left office in 1989, USAF Strategic Air Command (SAC) did a “stand down) from its three decade B-52 vigil wherein one third of these long range nuclear bombers were constantly in the air 24/7/365, ready to launch a retaliatory nuclear strike against any nation that launched a first strike against the US and/or its allies… if you don’t know the code, “its allies” over here means the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and anyone else who cares to join that permanent “forever” list.

Thatcher, as much as anyone, is responsible for the stand down.

I know next to nothing about Thatcher’s domestic policies.  


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Thatcher changed Britain for the worse - Page 12 Empty Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by oftenwrong Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:52 am

Even a cursory glance at postwar British political history will inform the enquirer that Margaret Thatcher was a divisive influence. Intentionally so, as she despised the lumpenproletariat that depended on others to provide gainful employment for them.

It was an honest opinion, honestly held, but disdaining the obvious necessity for any culture to make the best use of all its components and not just favour the "Ayn Rand" end of the spectrum.

Polemically, the failure of the indigenous tribes of North America may have been at least partially due to their having "Too many Chiefs and not enough indians."
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Thatcher changed Britain for the worse - Page 12 Empty Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by boatlady Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:12 am


I know next to nothing about Thatcher’s domestic policies.
.


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Thanks for your honesty
I come from a mining community - so does my husband - maybe we're better able to comment.
In re the Falklands - before the dead bitch's popularity in the polls was receding, she was busily trying to pass them on to Argentina - only the threat of losing a general election got her patriotic fervour going.
You weren't there.
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Thatcher changed Britain for the worse - Page 12 Empty Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:30 pm

Read the post properly Mr, then you will see that I mentioned industries other than steel works. I suppose you will be telling us you have had 25yrs experience in all the other industries/utilities as well.

And an engineering company does not deal only with the steel industry for goodness sake, you lot have not the foggiest about manufacturing, my customer base spanned all types of nationalised industries. The public sector was a gravy train for suppliers and workers, and both raped the tax payer for decades.

The proof is this, the private sector was queuing up to buy companies that were either profitable or had profit potential, nobody was going anywhere near the vast number of companies involved in mining, steel, shipbuilding, cars or trucks. The great manufacturing base of Great Britain was not great at competing in the real world, and their demise was inevitable when any form of restructuring or modernisation was opposed by the unions protecting their members.
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Thatcher changed Britain for the worse - Page 12 Empty Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:35 pm

That statement says it ALL about the writer!!!!

Rich coming from someone celebrating the death of another human being, your grip on reality is loosening.
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Thatcher changed Britain for the worse - Page 12 Empty Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Phil Hornby Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:36 pm

Was it the Thatcher era which brought about such attractive and irresistible qualities of modesty and humility in some folk...? Very Happy
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Thatcher changed Britain for the worse - Page 12 Empty Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:12 pm

Only a total loser could be quite so eager to demonstrate ignorance. Do the letters FCA and ATII have any significance in your suffocating little world, Tosh? If you have to look it up, don't bother since the answer is already clear.

LMAO....you got to be kidding Sage, I have met some thick bean counters in my day but if you are one, then you are the thickest, and I can prove it with ease.

If established Companies were loss-making, it was largely due to galloping inflation. Prices moved ahead of wages, with a predictable result.

If a manufacturing company is losing money then its down to one of two things, it is selling too cheap or its costing too much, its fairly simple, its not rocket science, one does not have to have " bean counting " initials to understand the fundamentals of business economics.

Inflated raw materials and energy only affects this equation if it is limited to ones domestic market, and it wasn't it was global, we were in the same boat as our competitors. Where we differed was in wages and its relationship to productivity, the unions demanded pay rices equivalent to inflation and without any increase in output.

This my friend is the part of the balance sheet you do not understand, we were not able to put up our prices but were forced by the unions to put up our costs, and the result was loss making industries. Our competitors abroad were not run by blinkered ideological unions, and their wages were tied to productivity not inflation.

Loss making on a grand scale in the public sector caused more government debt which caused more inflation and we entered a debt-inflation death spiral.

So, in summary, if you are an accountant as you suggest then what in the name of Christ are you babbling on about in saying " inflation caused loss making, and prices moved AHEAD of wages " ?

I have demonstrated the former is tripe and the latter contradicts common sense, if prices move ahead of wages then profits rise not fall, wages against productivity( labour rate) is what causes loss making in manufacturing, the skill in skilled manufacturing is to produce faster than your competitors, a job for life does not encourage productivity.

Were you an accountant in domestic retail( a sweetie shop) by any chance because your formula for export manufacturing is sheer nonsense.

Never met a bean counter yet who could lace my boots in business economics.





Last edited by Tosh on Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:46 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Post by Mel Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:21 pm

I am not celebrating the death of the Witch. I am though condemning her life as a so called PM.
She was no better than a dictator. She took credit for the intervention in the "Cold War" with Gorbatrof who was in fact a very different animal to his predecessors in his outlook in relations with the West as a whole.

We can credit her with nothing but creating misery and disruction of peoples lives and her deregulation of the banking sector for which we now suffer.
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Post by Tosh Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:28 pm

We can credit her with nothing but creating misery and disruction of peoples lives and her deregulation of the banking sector for which we now suffer.

I am not defending how she went about treating the sick man of Europe but to deny we were sick is simply ignoring reality.

The unions must share the blame, they simply used their power and influence to obstruct change, and change was essential for oncoming globalisation.
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