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Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

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Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by blueturando on Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:09 am

First topic message reminder :

Tonight’s YouGov poll for the Sun has topline figures of CON 41%, LAB 39%, LDEM 10%, Others 10%. This is the first time that YouGov have shown a Conservative lead since December 2010. It certainly looks as though the Conservatives have recieved a boost from David Cameron’s veto at the European summit. There is also a new ComRes poll out tonight for the Independent which has topline figures of CON 38%(+1), LAB 38%(-1), LDEM 12%(+2) – also showing the two main parties effectively neck-and-neck. How is it that the tories can be level or ahead in the polls when they are having to make some very difficult and painfull decisions to try and bring down the deficit, the umemployment figures are the worst for 17 years. We have had strikes, pension reforms, VAT rises and the veto in Europe etc.......

It looks like Ed Millaband is not liked or trusted by many of the elecorate. In my opinion he looks weak, sounds weak and has no policies to speak of....Everytime he tries to get the better of Cameron in PMQ'S he ends looking like a fool with Cameron destroying him. Ed Balls is no better...he comes across as an odious man with no substance, who would probably stab his own wife in the back if it meant he gained more power.

Labour missed a trick in not voting in Eds brother David into the leadership role. David would have given Cameron a better run for his money and I believe he is a better politician than Ed too. With the two Eds at the helm I believe Labour are not a viable opposition right now and one or both could be dispatched by the party sooner rather than later



Last edited by Ivan on Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:11 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Phil Hornby on Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:58 pm

It would indeed be great fun to see any incoming Labour PM telling us all ad nauseam what a mess was inherited from the previous Conservative Government... Very Happy

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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Stox 16 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:09 am

bobby wrote:Witchy. All we see that’s happening is that Herr Cameron has been and still is playing games. He (and his sycophantic followers) has no policies that’s worth anything, so has to resort to what’s left Rhetoric and personal attacks. His rhetoric we hear every time he opens his foul mouth and personal attacks when he has no answers to a question, which is every time he is asked one.
He took a small jump in the polls purely down to appeasing the little Englanders, those that think we are or could be a world leader and believe Churchill still lives.
Lets face it, he did what many Brits would like to do and that is to attack the Frogs, anyone who attacks them will be on a sure albeit temporary winner.
If Herr Cameron had the balls to call an election now that he has all but alienated the UK from Europe, whatever Lib-Dem support he may be able to rely on, will not support the Tory’s come the next General Election, and how much of their core support will vote for them again, after the last deceitfully run election ( Vote for us to keep the Tory’s out). They have squandered any chance of being in Government ever again, and good riddance.
Who else is there to vote for, “UKIP?” they are OK if you want an anti Europe Conservative Party, very few left leaning voters will touch that one trick party, after them who is there, the only answer is Labour and they will win the next General Election as and when its run. Even Herr Cameron knows that, that is why he is pushing through his damaging policies, before they have been thought through and whilst there are plenty of distractions like wars and Argentinian sabre rattling. I honestly don’t think either The Tory’s or the Lie-Dems have a chance of winning an elections. People say all sorts of things for a poll, but an Election is a totally different matter.

Bobby a good post and so very true. people will get very sick of the Tory party in time. if they have not all ready. as you rightly say Bobby a poll is just what people might do on any given time. but a GE is a great deal more than that. lets face it, if Herr Cameron really believe he could win a GE right now why does he not call one? The fact is he does not believe he could win it. all this bull about the 5 years and the economy and his love of the Lib/Dem's. Well come the next GE this so-called coalition will become dog eat dog. Hell I not even sure if Labour will have to do anything at all. as Tories and Lib/Dem's will be fighting each other over who did what and who stopped who.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Stox 16 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:12 am

witchfinder wrote:If there were to be a general election tomorrow, I think most posters would not be suprised to learn that I would put my "X" next to the Labour candidate.

But I do have some concerns, yes its marvelous and to a degree comforting to see Labour winning all those by-elections, but I feel something is not quite right.

This mornings YouGov poll puts Labour 4 points ahead of the Conservatives, and UK Polling Report predicts a hung parliament with Labour been short by six seats, that is if there were to be an election now.

I cannot help but wonder, when the economy is in a worse situation than it was in 2010, when the beloved NHS is under threat, when unemployment, poverty and homelesness is set to rise, why Labour is not 10 points ahead.

Perhaps its just me, am I missing something here
NOT AT ALL WITCHY. your spot on mate.

I will not even have to think about who gets my vote at all. There is only one party in it for me.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by tlttf on Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:07 am

Who is this Ed Milliband, is he an imaginary figure thought up by the people. Will he be recognised as a Che Guavara like person, or is genuinely in the same class as paddington Bear?

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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Stox 16 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:13 am

tlttf wrote:Who is this Ed Milliband, is he an imaginary figure thought up by the people. Will he be recognised as a Che Guavara like person, or is genuinely in the same class as paddington Bear?

Sounds like you need to get out more to me.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by atv on Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:47 am

How many people voted for Ed Miliband to become leader of the Labour party, and now regret it.
Anyone who polls lower than Nick Clegg and lower than Gordon at his worst should realise that they just can't win. Indeed, the Conservatives should not be meeting or exceeding Labour in the polls when the economy is so bad.
However, the problem is, Labour is far too loyal to its leadership and I don't foresee a situation where Ed Miliband is forced out.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:37 pm

" I don't foresee a situation where Ed Miliband is forced out."

I don't foresee a situation where that might concern you, atv. You might let the world have your opinion on the future of Cameron's coalition partners, the Liberal Democrats, however. A poll published today suggests that 75% of those who voted Lib-Dem at the last Election will not do that again.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by bobby on Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:15 pm

Atv, Just how many people voted for Herr Cameron to become Prime Minister, just as important, how many voted for Chopper Clegg to become Deputy Prime Minister. dems da rule atv, and we have to live with them until changed.
I am pleased you have recognised a quality of Labour, and that is Loyalty, something we can never expect from Tory’s.
Albeit Edd Milliband wasn’t my first choice (my first choice didn’t run for the Job, Alan Johnson) I honestly believe, so long as you see the Tory press as a pack of lies written by a bunch of no nuffin twats, you may be able to have a peek at the real world. Edd Milliband has been and is growing into the job nicely, he certainly has the beating of Herr Cameron, over the dispatch box.
You and others question Edd Millibands policies, why weren’t you asking that of Herr Cameron when in opposition, he had bugger all in his policy bag, came up with a couple of sound bites for the election itself and has made U turn after U turn or just welched on them totally since. Now that Labour are in opposition, why is it not OK to keep shtum just as Herr Cameron did. It really is a case of double standards isn’t it, we still have over 3 years to go before ousting this joke of a Coalition. Labour will not do everything right, but will get a lot more right than Herr Cameron could even dream about. In fact if he (Cameron) does dream of a policy, the bastard had better wake up and apologise, because its bound to be flawed, just as all else he has done has been.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Redflag on Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:06 pm

blueturando wrote:Tonight’s YouGov poll for the Sun has topline figures of CON 41%, LAB 39%, LDEM 10%, Others 10%. This is the first time that YouGov have shown a Conservative lead since December 2010. It certainly looks as though the Conservatives have recieved a boost from David Cameron’s veto at the European summit. There is also a new ComRes poll out tonight for the Independent which has topline figures of CON 38%(+1), LAB 38%(-1), LDEM 12%(+2) – also showing the two main parties effectively neck-and-neck. How is it that the tories can be level or ahead in the polls when they are having to make some very difficult and painfull decisions to try and bring down the deficit, the umemployment figures are the worst for 17 years. We have had strikes, pension reforms, VAT rises and the veto in Europe etc.......

It looks like Ed Millaband is not liked or trusted by many of the elecorate. In my opinion he looks weak, sounds weak and has no policies to speak of....Everytime he tries to get the better of Cameron in PMQ'S he ends looking like a fool with Cameron destroying him. Ed Balls is no better...he comes across as an odious man with no substance, who would probably stab his own wife in the back if it meant he gained more power.

Labour missed a trick in not voting in Eds brother David into the leadership role. David would have given Cameron a better run for his money and I believe he is a better politician than Ed too. With the two Eds at the helm I believe Labour are not a viable opposition right now and one or both could be dispatched by the party sooner rather than later


I agree that Ed Miliband is not the ideal person to head the Labour party, I am a Labour member and I was one of the people that did not vote for either of the Milibands I thought the two of them where hyped up too much on the run up to the vote. My ideal person to lead the Labour party would have been Alan Johnstone but there lies the problem he did not throw his hat in the ring for leader that is one thing that Ed did that was right he made Johnstone his Chancellor but as we all know No experience in the financial sector but he prove himself a decent person when he knew the story about his wife was going to break he bowed out to make sure nothing came back to cause the party any embarrassment which in my eyes proves he puts the party first. Very Happy
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Redflag on Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:38 pm

witchfinder wrote:If there were to be a general election tomorrow, I think most posters would not be suprised to learn that I would put my "X" next to the Labour candidate.

But I do have some concerns, yes its marvelous and to a degree comforting to see Labour winning all those by-elections, but I feel something is not quite right.

This mornings YouGov poll puts Labour 4 points ahead of the Conservatives, and UK Polling Report predicts a hung parliament with Labour been short by six seats, that is if there were to be an election now.

I cannot help but wonder, when the economy is in a worse situation than it was in 2010, when the beloved NHS is under threat, when unemployment, poverty and homelesness is set to rise, why Labour is not 10 points ahead.

Perhaps its just me, am I missing something here

I am glad to hear you would still vote Labour if there was an GE tomorrow I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one but thanks witchfinder Im not on my own, The wins in the by-election have been the only thing that has kept me going.

The economy has got worse but as some one who managed to live through the last Tory Gov't I sort of knew what was coming when Cameron won in 2010 and within five days I had actually joined the Labour party and am very much involved in my local area in Holyrood elections and the House of Commons the BBC Parliament channel is good I watch PMQs every week and maybe you can answer a question for me the Tories are great at casting up Labours errors can you tell me why Miliband does not do the same there would be plenty for him to cast up after the Thatcher Gov't farcical attempt at governing. I wish I could answer why we are not 10 points ahead possibility is Miliband not doing his job right he is mot believable enough, there is something missing what it is I can not put my finger on it right now but will give it much thought.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by blueturando on Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:40 pm

Redflag....Welcome to Cutting Edge

I totally agree with you on Alan Johnston....He would have made a great party leader. I am a Tory, but I have always admired him because he comes across as honest, genuine and very knowledgeable.
To me, Millaband is everything Labour supporters say they hate....just a snotty nosed posh boy who hasn't got a clue or any experience of the working class. I am very happy if the majority of Labour supporters carry on supporting Ed Millaband as it makes things a lot easier for my Party to stay in power....Thanks guys Smile

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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by jackthelad on Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:49 pm

My faith in the Labour Party as never wavered, can't say that about some of it's politicians though. Ed is a nice enough bloke, (got to say that, he is our MP) but Ed appears to be a bit lacklustre, he as had time to shine, but we have hardly had a glimmer from him. The trouble is there doesn't appear to be any Labour MP's with any bright shinning halo's around either, Ed Ball's has a bit of a glow but that could just be his sun tan.
The Labour party should be well out in front in the polls but we seem to be making an hard race of it. Never mind, i can see the Lib/Dems and Tories handing us the next election over in a bag, no matter how Ed cocks things up.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by bobby on Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:51 pm

Bluey, you have me a tad confused, you say:

"To me, Millaband is everything Labour supporters say they hate....just a snotty nosed posh boy who hasn't got a clue or any experience of the working class."

If to you the qualities you mention are so distastefull, why on earth do you suport a party where every member is a "snotty nosed posh boy who hasn't a clue or any experience of the working class. You have described the Tory beast to perfection
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by jackthelad on Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:53 pm

blueturando, location, Jersey CI, that figures, a Tory tax haven.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by blueturando on Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:05 pm

Jack.....Let me give you a little background before you make assumptions

Me.....Born and raised by a single mother on a council estate....Left home at 17 and came to Jersey for an adventure and to find work (Not much around when I the UK left School in 83) Started working in a hotel.....re-educated myself, took qualifications and now many years of hard work later I am lucky enough to have my own business.....Not quite a Tory tax dodger

I have many friends who work in the offshore finance sector and you would be surprised how many well known people have there wealth invested here. These include people we all know from media, sports and politics.....representing all the major UK parties my friend

People who actually live here do not get the tax benefits you seem to think. Foreign companies and HNW individuals who register here and invest their wealth here do

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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by jackthelad on Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:18 pm

Blue, you sound like my granddaughter, but she had both parents, and a different island, Guernsey to be precise, she also started in an hotel, St Piers Park hotel. She is now working in banking, no business of her own but does own a yacht.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by atv on Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:27 pm

[quote="Redflag I wish I could answer why we are not 10 points ahead possibility is Miliband not doing his job right he is mot believable enough, there is something missing what it is I can not put my finger on it right now but will give it much thought.[/quote]

Maybe this will help.

Scarcely a day goes by without Ed Miliband being the target of friendly fire.
First, his one-time policy guru Lord Glasman says his leadership seems to have 'no strategy, no narrative and little energy'.
Writing in the New Statesman, Glasman complains: 'Old faces from the Brown era still dominate the shadow cabinet and they seem stuck in defending Labour's record in all the wrong ways ­ we didn't spend too much money, we'll cut less fast and less far, but we can't tell you how.'

Although support for Labour is holding up fairly well - just above or below 40 per cent - Miliband is trailing far behind the PM. His net approval rating on the latest ICM poll for The Guardian is minus 17, compared with Cameron's plus five - and this at a time when the economy is hovering over a return to recession and when public confidence about the outlook for the UK in 2012 is at rock bottom. Miliband's ratings on other factors, such as good in a crisis, are dreadful.
Even worse for the Labour leader, despite the recession, he is making no headway on the key battleground of the economy. Cameron and George Osborne have a 21-point lead over Miliband and Ed Balls when it comes to managing the nation's finances.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Labour can promise people anything at the minute and tell us exactly what we want to hear "we'll cut crime", "we'll make the NHS better", "we'll do everything you want"....but they won't tell us how their going to pay for it. Suppose it's the upside of not being in power


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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by blueturando on Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:28 pm

Bobby.......I know what Cameron is and I know what he stands for, I cannot say the same for Millaband...now that's confusing!

I know there are many die hard Labour supporters here and one or Tories too. I am a Tory, but not a die hard. In 97 I knew my party had come to the end and wanted Blair to win. He was refreshing, believable and my party had gone stale and sleazy. I am sure many Tory voters like me just didn't vote for anyone in that election.

The reason I am more Tory these days is because of Labour's failure to admit to anything they did wrong. Too many in the senior positions of Labour are tied to the Brown Government and he was quite shambolic as a leader. Labour would gain a lot more credibility if Millaband came out and said, yes we got a lot of things wrong but this is a new fresh labour leadership and shadow cabinet who have learnt from our mistakes. Unfortunately Millaband doesn't seem to be genuine, has no ideas to speak of and is not what I would expect of a Labour party leader....too weak, too posh.

The reason I would vote Tory is that I believe the Public sector grew too big to cope with in the New Labour years. There was too much immigration for our infrastructure to cope with, too many stealth taxes and too many sovereign powers were surrendered to the EU. Brown was out of touch with the electorate ( Bigot comment etc ) and I believe Millaband is out of touch and ideas too

Can you honestly tell me you believe Ed Millaband is representative of the working class person in the UK????

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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Ivan on Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:00 pm

I know what Cameron is and I know what he stands for
Do you, blue? I don't. Is he for the NHS, which cared for his son, or does he want it fragmented and privatised? If he's for it, why is he allowing Lansley to do things for which the Tories have no mandate?

Is Cameron for hugging hoodies or locking them up and throwing away the key? Is Cameron for a referendum on the EU (remember that "cast iron" promise), and does he want to leave it altogether? Is he still for making this "the greenest government ever", when he's slashed the advantage of having solar panels on your roof? All Cameron stands for is privilege, Eton, the Bullingdon Club, his cronies in the City and in Chipping Norton, and above all, for himself.

As for attempting to make comparisons with Ed Miliband, they could hardly be different. Ralph Miliband didn't inherit millions of pounds, he was a refugee who became a teacher and writer. His sons didn't go to Eton but to a comprehensive school. No, Ed Miliband is not from a blue-collar background, but who is these days?

I agree that Alan Johnson is a very nice man, but too old to be a party leader and quite unsuitable to have been Shadow Chancellor, especially when trained economists Cooper and Balls were available. Ed wasn't my choice and my real choice - Yvette Cooper - didn't stand, but there's no reason to get rid of him. Labour managed only 29% in the election in May 2010, but in last night's poll they were on 41%, which represents a 40% increase in support (mainly from those who wished they hadn't voted Lib Dem) in just 20 months. If it ain't broke, why fix it?
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Phil Hornby on Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:31 pm

Fashions count for a great deal in politics. It is currently fashionable to ridicule Ed Miliband and for many to praise Thatcher to the heavens.

But it would not matter how long - if ever - Miliband spends in Downing Street since he could not even begin to cause the damage and division that Thatcher deliberately brought to this country. Those for whom she is a hero would probably equally admire a mass murderer who sprayed a Trade Union meeting with a machine gun , so we should not dwell unduly on their choice of champion...
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:27 pm

Although it certainly doesn't matter to anyone other than myself, I can't see the point of Ed Milliband yet. He is taking a leisurely approach to fighting the Government, which may be good political judgment but has the unfortunate appearance of inadequacy.

.... and who has he rented his face to? At times, that curious gurning is slightly alarming.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by keenobserver1 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:05 pm

oftenwrong wrote:" I don't foresee a situation where Ed Miliband is forced out."

I don't foresee a situation where that might concern you, atv. You might let the world have your opinion on the future of Cameron's coalition partners, the Liberal Democrats, however. A poll published today suggests that 75% of those who voted Lib-Dem at the last Election will not do that again.

If you polled those same people on who they had voted for at the previous election, would 75% answer that they had voted Lib-Dem? I would suggest that they didn't and the only reason they voted Lib-Dem in the last election was due to the media hype! And the lack of appeal of the other two.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by keenobserver1 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:11 pm

bobby wrote: Labour will not do everything right, but will get a lot more right than Herr Cameron could even dream about.

Here was me thinking that labour would be moving to the left under Ed?
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Stox 16 on Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:48 am

bobby wrote:Bluey, you have me a tad confused, you say:

"To me, Millaband is everything Labour supporters say they hate....just a snotty nosed posh boy who hasn't got a clue or any experience of the working class."

If to you the qualities you mention are so distastefull, why on earth do you suport a party where every member is a "snotty nosed posh boy who hasn't a clue or any experience of the working class. You have described the Tory beast to perfection

Have to say Bobby that is a very good and fair point you make
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Stox 16 on Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:19 am

atv wrote:[quote="Redflag I wish I could answer why we are not 10 points ahead possibility is Miliband not doing his job right he is mot believable enough, there is something missing what it is I can not put my finger on it right now but will give it much thought.

Maybe this will help.

Scarcely a day goes by without Ed Miliband being the target of friendly fire.
First, his one-time policy guru Lord Glasman says his leadership seems to have 'no strategy, no narrative and little energy'.
Writing in the New Statesman, Glasman complains: 'Old faces from the Brown era still dominate the shadow cabinet and they seem stuck in defending Labour's record in all the wrong ways ­ we didn't spend too much money, we'll cut less fast and less far, but we can't tell you how.'

Although support for Labour is holding up fairly well - just above or below 40 per cent - Miliband is trailing far behind the PM. His net approval rating on the latest ICM poll for The Guardian is minus 17, compared with Cameron's plus five - and this at a time when the economy is hovering over a return to recession and when public confidence about the outlook for the UK in 2012 is at rock bottom. Miliband's ratings on other factors, such as good in a crisis, are dreadful.
Even worse for the Labour leader, despite the recession, he is making no headway on the key battleground of the economy. Cameron and George Osborne have a 21-point lead over Miliband and Ed Balls when it comes to managing the nation's finances.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Labour can promise people anything at the minute and tell us exactly what we want to hear "we'll cut crime", "we'll make the NHS better", "we'll do everything you want"....but they won't tell us how their going to pay for it. Suppose it's the upside of not being in power


[/quote]

Can I just say. I own my own company and employ 29 people and we give economic advice to companies. now, I find it quite amazing when people expect any Leader in opposition no matter what party they are.. too state there economic policy right now and have it in place with 3 years too go? it would be quite stupid for the two Eds to tell the world right now what there tax and spend policy will be? What more, companies have no real idea what the economy will be doing in two months time let alone three years down the road. Hell not even Gideon Osborn knows what his own economic policy will look like next week let alone three years on. My own company has more economic data than most people will see in there life time. yet ask us what the UK economy will look like next week and we believe we can give a fair summary. but three years down the road. you must be joking.

Yet here we are. we believe the two Eds must tell us now? good god will people please get real. we are in the middle of a economic crisis at home and in the world. yet the Eds most have a policy that covers all of that now. WHY. how creditable would that be?

As for the polls. Well, I could not care one little bit what lead either party has right now. as now does not matter at all. I will be interested in the polls with 12 months to go. but now. not at all. even if Labour had a 20 point lead today over the Tories..... as it would mean nothing at all, come 2015. in fact can anyone remember the poll in Jan 2006? and did that poll have any say in the out come of the 2009 GE? No it did not
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Stox 16 on Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:56 am

blueturando wrote:Bobby.......I know what Cameron is and I know what he stands for, I cannot say the same for Millaband...now that's confusing!

I know there are many die hard Labour supporters here and one or Tories too. I am a Tory, but not a die hard. In 97 I knew my party had come to the end and wanted Blair to win. He was refreshing, believable and my party had gone stale and sleazy. I am sure many Tory voters like me just didn't vote for anyone in that election.

The reason I am more Tory these days is because of Labour's failure to admit to anything they did wrong. Too many in the senior positions of Labour are tied to the Brown Government and he was quite shambolic as a leader. Labour would gain a lot more credibility if Millaband came out and said, yes we got a lot of things wrong but this is a new fresh labour leadership and shadow cabinet who have learnt from our mistakes. Unfortunately Millaband doesn't seem to be genuine, has no ideas to speak of and is not what I would expect of a Labour party leader....too weak, too posh.

The reason I would vote Tory is that I believe the Public sector grew too big to cope with in the New Labour years. There was too much immigration for our infrastructure to cope with, too many stealth taxes and too many sovereign powers were surrendered to the EU. Brown was out of touch with the electorate ( Bigot comment etc ) and I believe Millaband is out of touch and ideas too

Can you honestly tell me you believe Ed Millaband is representative of the working class person in the UK????

Blue boy
I believe the Labour party has given far too many apology's and its got them know where at all. in fact I do not believe that they should be giving an apology for a world banking crisis that was started under the Thatcher deregulation of the city of London in the 1980s. nor do I believe any other countries Government should apologize either and that even cover Bush in the US. as no Government had a policy in place with regulation to match that would of stopped the world banking crisis. if you know diffrent then please name this Government? as I would like too know who they are. in fact the UK growth and spend figures for 2005 and 2006 show the UK economy was growing at around 2.5% and that borrowing was well within the limits set under the IMF.

In fact Cameron himself stated in the House of Commons that he would follow the Labour parties Tax and spending policy. WHEN DID THIS CHANGE. o yes that is right the very day after the world banking crisis, ODD THAT? not

so what was Cameron's great economic policy in the lead up to 2009 GE. well it did not even cover one full page in his parties manifesto. what's more up to the world banking crisis very few people even expected him to win. this even showed in the result of the 2009 GE. as he could not even win a majority. the reason was many just did not believe Cameron could win an outright majority. had the world banking crisis not taken place I do not even believe he would of even made it to number 10. I think he must look at the stars today and think how very lucky he is that the world banking crisis happened. as without it... he was a nobody heading nowhere fast.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Stox 16 on Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:08 am

Phil Hornby wrote:Fashions count for a great deal in politics. It is currently fashionable to ridicule Ed Miliband and for many to praise Thatcher to the heavens.

But it would not matter how long - if ever - Miliband spends in Downing Street since he could not even begin to cause the damage and division that Thatcher deliberately brought to this country. Those for whom she is a hero would probably equally admire a mass murderer who sprayed a Trade Union meeting with a machine gun , so we should not dwell unduly on their choice of champion...

How very true Phil
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Stox 16 on Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:14 am

Ivan wrote:
I know what Cameron is and I know what he stands for
Do you, blue? I don't. Is he for the NHS, which cared for his son, or does he want it fragmented and privatised? If he's for it, why is he allowing Lansley to do things for which the Tories have no mandate?

Is Cameron for hugging hoodies or locking them up and throwing away the key? Is Cameron for a referendum on the EU (remember that "cast iron" promise), and does he want to leave it altogether? Is he still for making this "the greenest government ever", when he's slashed the advantage of having solar panels on your roof? All Cameron stands for is privilege, Eton, the Bullingdon Club, his cronies in the City and in Chipping Norton, and above all, for himself.

As for attempting to make comparisons with Ed Miliband, they could hardly be different. Ralph Miliband didn't inherit millions of pounds, he was a refugee who became a teacher and writer. His sons didn't go to Eton but to a comprehensive school. No, Ed Miliband is not from a blue-collar background, but who is these days?

I agree that Alan Johnson is a very nice man, but too old to be a party leader and quite unsuitable to have been Shadow Chancellor, especially when trained economists Cooper and Balls were available. Ed wasn't my choice and my real choice - Yvette Cooper - didn't stand, but there's no reason to get rid of him. Labour managed only 29% in the election in May 2010, but in last night's poll they were on 41%, which represents a 40% increase in support (mainly from those who wished they hadn't voted Lib Dem) in just 20 months. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

cannot agree more Bobby. Lets face it. Would we rather win the Polls in 2012? Or would we rather Win the GE in 2015? But lets face it 40% odd with 5% either way is not what I would call a failure at all. it was more than Cameron had just two years into the last government
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by bobby on Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:02 pm

It seems that the Tory press are stirring up a load of anti Edd Milliband crap. I personally don’t see what he is doing wrong. In fact he is trying to do what Herr Cameron said before the 2010 election and get rid of “Punch and Judy” politics.
We all know that Labour would have to make cuts if they where in power, they say that themselves all the time, and they keep reiterating that their/our cuts would be lower and over a longer period of time, therefore less damaging and encouraging growth, they have constantly stated where some cuts could be reduced, i.e. The Police cuts from 20% to 12% a figure the police themselves say could be managed and cuts in our nuclear armaments programme and of course cuts to our unemployment and welfare bill, due to the fact more people would be working.
How do you stupid Tory’s think that Labour can give definite details of spending and cuts, when the situation is changing almost daily, every prediction/ projection made by the twat Gideon has had to be revised down, we have phuck all growth, the bill for our expanding unemployment is rising, borrowing is much higher than it would be under the Darling plan, and is being wasted on paying unemployment benefits to those very people they are making unemployed.
I am now beginning to wonder if Herr Cameron is becoming so desperate to shed his Lie-Dem coalition partners in order to push through his ideological plans, and has ordered his right wing media machine to start an anti Edd Milliband campaign, in an attempt to try to discredit him before calling a snap Election when he thinks the time is right, only going by what we know of his judgement the time wont be right and will be yet another Herr Cameron phuck up, but for Labour a good phuck up.
Edd Milliband is not a soothsayer and can not put himself in the position of making guesses, only to be vilified if those guesses are wrong due to an ever changing set of circumstances. This is exactly what the Tory Media are waiting for, but fortunately Edd Milliband is not as stupid as Herr Cameron and will not play the sort of games Herr Cameron has become champion at, all speech with no substance.
I know which of the two is the more competent, the more caring and best equipped to get this country working again and that is Edd Milliband. Well done Edd, Keep it up.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Ivan on Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:09 pm

bobby wrote:-
Cameron is becoming so desperate to shed his Lie-Dem coalition partners in order to push through his ideological plans, and has ordered his right wing media machine to start an anti Edd Milliband campaign, in an attempt to try to discredit him before calling a snap Election
Apparently, he can't do that any longer because the bill introducing fixed term parliaments is now law. If Cameron resigns, there would be fourteen days for someone else to try and form a government, and a non-Tory government is certainly a possibility out of the 343 non-Tory MPs, as it should have been in May 2010.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:32 pm

Cameron will try to continue walking a tightrope for a bit longer, enjoying his new popularity as Britain's favourite Euro-basher.

However that is the very direction from which a swinging handbag may complete full circle.

Anyway, slagging-off the opposition is the very essence of Politics, and besides, look at the mess they inherited.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by jackthelad on Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:03 pm

Ed Miliband says of some of the recent adverse comments said about him, that they are not true, and that he really is a man of steel.
Well why not, the Conservatives had a iron lady didn't they.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Redflag on Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:17 pm

jackthelad wrote:My faith in the Labour Party as never wavered, can't say that about some of it's politicians though. Ed is a nice enough bloke, (got to say that, he is our MP) but Ed appears to be a bit lacklustre, he as had time to shine, but we have hardly had a glimmer from him. The trouble is there doesn't appear to be any Labour MP's with any bright shinning halo's around either, Ed Ball's has a bit of a glow but that could just be his sun tan.
The Labour party should be well out in front in the polls but we seem to be making an hard race of it. Never mind, i can see the Lib/Dems and Tories handing us the next election over in a bag, no matter how Ed cocks things up.

Nor has mine I just want the best for my party and if we do get back in we have to be able to stay in and have the entire public voting Labour, your right about Ed been lacklustre and he has had time to shine but I don't think David would have been any better I think Ed Balls wife would have been better for shadow Chancellor she has no baggage from Mr Brown's time can I ask you do you get out there and help its people like you the Labour party needs to take it in the right direction as for the Tories and Lib/Dems handing this next GE on a platter your more than likely right so my last word will be go and add your two pence worth at your local Labour party as I do.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Stox 16 on Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:19 am

jackthelad wrote:Ed Miliband says of some of the recent adverse comments said about him, that they are not true, and that he really is a man of steel.
Well why not, the Conservatives had a iron lady didn't they.

That is so true Jackthelad, but was it more the case of Thatchers cabinet looking weak while this made her look strong? The whole question of the Labour party leadership is an interesting one. as I just happen to believe that the Labour party is faced by a Coalition that is far more interesting to the media with its policy splits than it is in what Ed Miliband has to say. as was it not Ed Miliband who started the debate in how we change and look at Capitalism? As its my understanding that Cameron and the Tory Party have done some private polling that is telling them that Bankers bonuses and Capitalism's actions is deeply unpopular with the majority of the public.

Well if this is the case then its Cameron and Gideon who are moving on too Ed Milibands ground? yet Ed has been given no credit for starting this debate at all within the media? now Cameron has even had a swipe at the tax-avoidance industry. rightly so in my view. but yet again six months ago it was Cameron who was critical of the Labour parties argument that this need checking, while falling back on his old argument of what did Labour do about it when it office. But was there not a new legislation passed in the House of Common that Cameron on coming into office refused to implement? with the argument being that it would be bad for his friends in the City? Well given all of this how come its Ed Miliband who is having his leadership attack? could it just be that the media is not covering this debate until the Coalition bring up this subject?

I just happen to view all these attacks on the Labour party leadership by both the Tory party and its media friends as a very good sign. as too me they fear what Ed is saying is hitting home and starting to show up inside Tory party private polling? if what I think is happening is in fact happening then this whole new attack on Ed Miliband and criticism is amid to get the Labour party and its leadership looking over its shoulder and feed the anti Miliband groups within the party. if I was a Tory and found Left of centre arguments come to light inside my private polling I would be deeply worried and would have to set out to take over this agenda and therefore control it. while trying to turn the Labour party on its leader and question his leadership and judgement.

I believe Ed poll ratting's are in fact down over Europa and what people believe quite wrongly in my view believe Cameron is doing in fighting the nasty EU? For me its this that more than anything else what is distorting to polls and is being used by the Tory party to question Milibands leadership and feed these who are questioning his leadership. Just what I would do if I was in there shoes. as what was the Labour poll ratting's before the big European snub? who was leading the polls before this? so its a interesting move on Cameron part. as its more about feeding opposition within the Labour Party in my view
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by bobby on Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:22 pm

Absolutey correct Stox, well said.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Stox 16 on Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:00 pm

bobby wrote:Absolutey correct Stox, well said.

thank god there are two of us then bobby. I some times think I am on my own. Hell the Tory run media are doing this for a reason. they do not waste news print for nothing?

The bottom line is this....what would the media like him to say or do? but what every he did or what ever policy he had would be attacked out of hand. with the Tory party chucking petrol on the fire. well others can seek a change if they wish? but I will not do so. Too Hell with that

Not that I voted for Ed in the leadership race. but if all you worry about is the the last poll result. then lets pack up our bags now and give up. what is the point at all, as do they really believe that a new leader of the Labour Party is going to get some soft ride? if so who is this person? I will be most interested to meet them?

Well bobby. others may wish to run about like a headless chicken just to please the Tory party. too hell with them. me I think its going OK. unless you happen to believe polls will win the next GE in 2015?


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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by LWS on Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:13 pm

A very good post Stox. In a way, I think Labour made a mistake to elect ED rather than David Milliband. Not that I don't think that he is no good. In a way he is too good and too nice and lacks gravitas. Cameron has the ability to fight dirty, which is something Ed needs to do. In other words snooker Cam, in the same way - turn the tables.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Stox 16 on Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:58 pm

LWS wrote:A very good post Stox. In a way, I think Labour made a mistake to elect ED rather than David Milliband. Not that I don't think that he is no good. In a way he is too good and too nice and lacks gravitas. Cameron has the ability to fight dirty, which is something Ed needs to do. In other words snooker Cam, in the same way - turn the tables.

you're right LWS. But lets us be open. what is our problem right now? is it our own fear or is it what needs to be said and done? I happen to believe its our fear that the Tory party are playing on.

Cameron will use all the tools he can find to up-set us and drive us into the sea. Well to Hell with playing his game. we are better than that. The real questions is the moves we need to make now? and not the moves we need to make up-too the GE in 2015? will any of this really matter after January 2012? well we both know that Cameron hops too start an internal war within the Labour Party and is feeding off us? Why, to hide there own failures within the economy springs to mind to start with. lets face it.... my good friend.... the whole Scottish question is about this too? but then we both know this to be the case, but question is this? how can we stop this without the backing of the paper and TV media?


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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by blueturando on Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:46 am

Stox and LWS....You're both right on Ed Millaband. But both Labour and the Tories have history in trying to divide the other, so nothing new there.

I would like to see a stronger opposition...I always do whoever is in Government as they need to be held to account by the opposition, whoever that may be.

You probably don't want to hear my opinion as I'm a Tory, but I believe Labour would make themsleves more credible if they had clearly outlined policies....Policies that voters could relate to. I don't mean die hard Labour supporters, because you would vote for them even if they said our policy is instant nuclear war, but the voters Gordon Brown lost during his time in power.

As for the media? Well the media is fickle and I am sure you were not moaning when Murdochs press supported Blair. You have a Labour press and the BBC has always been left biased, so you're not doing too bad there


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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Ivan on Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:53 am

Extracts from an article by Andy Slaughter, Labour MP for Hammersmith:-

"Ed Miliband's last party conference speech recognized that the old model of neoliberalism had failed. He sees it as the job of the Labour Party to set out an alternative - 'a new bargain' - that would end the something-for-nothing culture that has plagued both the top and the bottom of society. Just as the feral 1% traded collateralized debt obligations that weren't worth the paper they were printed on, so rioters in London broke into high street stores and took whatever they could.

So it is Ed Miliband's job to defend the responsible middle: those who pay their taxes, work hard and rely on public services. As well as to stand up for the Tory-led government's victims: the 400,000 extra children forced into poverty by 2015, the pensioners facing cuts in winter fuel allowance. Our task is to build a bridge between the people in the middle, who work so hard for such scant reward, and the most vulnerable. Both are being made to bear too heavy a load while others, with broader backs, are given a lighter load.

To plot the course for fundamental change, to challenge the grip special interests have on our political system, you need conviction and courage. Ed Miliband showed he had it in the immediate aftermath of the phone hacking scandal. For three decades Rupert Murdoch has been swanning in and out of Number 10, but the Labour leader called for an end to the cosy relationship between politicians and the press, which Cameron had to follow. He's followed suit by taking on big energy firms, the banks and train operating companies. Not for a second has he blinked in the face of vested interests when they stand in the way of progress or equity."


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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by blueturando on Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:13 am

Ivan....Good post and I wish this was true......but both Labour and Tory governments have failed on the something for nothing culture.

The gap between rich and poor grew under Nu Labour, so I don't have faith anything would change when they come back into power. Both ends of the spectrum need to be addressed and fast and by that I mean benefit scroungers and big companies who manage to pay a fraction of the taxes they should pay. Who is finally going to fight for us? By us I mean the working and middle classes. I haven't heard any credible ideas or policies from any party to address these issues...only the usual soundbites.

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