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Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

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Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by blueturando on Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:09 am

First topic message reminder :

Tonight’s YouGov poll for the Sun has topline figures of CON 41%, LAB 39%, LDEM 10%, Others 10%. This is the first time that YouGov have shown a Conservative lead since December 2010. It certainly looks as though the Conservatives have recieved a boost from David Cameron’s veto at the European summit. There is also a new ComRes poll out tonight for the Independent which has topline figures of CON 38%(+1), LAB 38%(-1), LDEM 12%(+2) – also showing the two main parties effectively neck-and-neck. How is it that the tories can be level or ahead in the polls when they are having to make some very difficult and painfull decisions to try and bring down the deficit, the umemployment figures are the worst for 17 years. We have had strikes, pension reforms, VAT rises and the veto in Europe etc.......

It looks like Ed Millaband is not liked or trusted by many of the elecorate. In my opinion he looks weak, sounds weak and has no policies to speak of....Everytime he tries to get the better of Cameron in PMQ'S he ends looking like a fool with Cameron destroying him. Ed Balls is no better...he comes across as an odious man with no substance, who would probably stab his own wife in the back if it meant he gained more power.

Labour missed a trick in not voting in Eds brother David into the leadership role. David would have given Cameron a better run for his money and I believe he is a better politician than Ed too. With the two Eds at the helm I believe Labour are not a viable opposition right now and one or both could be dispatched by the party sooner rather than later



Last edited by Ivan on Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:11 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by astra on Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:43 pm

IS ED MILLIBAND LIVING ON bORROWED tIME?



I feel he has to get on his soap box and up the anti very soon!


If he waits any longer, who is going to see him as being able to CARRY said soap-box?

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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Phil Hornby on Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:48 pm

Ed may prove to be just the warm-up act for the main event...
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by kentdougal on Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:42 pm



Extremely little, as you know. You an american or something? You don't sound British to me.[/quote]

If you think it's extremely little you're even more blinkered and misguided than your ravings show you to be
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Ivan on Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:10 pm

The average, so-called "gold plated" public sector pension amounts to just £5,600 per annum. I wonder how that compares to the average pension in the banking fraternity? Constantly attacking the public sector - which the private sector needs to educate its workers and keep them healthy - is just playing into the hands of the Tories and their "divide and rule" mentality.

Amazon is currently selling copies of 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists' by Robert Tressell for £6.83 inc. p&p, should anyone wish to buy themselves a late Christmas present and a decent understanding of the conflict between capital and labour.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by bobby on Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:50 pm

Ivan. As a matter of interest the book you recomend is also available as an e book at WHsmith for £2.99. I have just downloaded my copy from WH Smiths site and it was nice and simple, even for me.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by astra on Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:37 am

get it on btjunkie for free!


btjunkie.org/search?q=The+Ragged+Trousered+Philanthropists



put your own "www" in. any problems with this post Ivan, delete at will

A.

we have kobo - for the gaffer, and a Sony prst1 for likkle me, and are using the ebooks on ebay. 5,000books for less than a fiver including post and no problems

the library in Newcastle has ebooks for members - 5 books for 2 weeks (extension negotiable for fee - not much!) The gaffer is into this as well
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by bobby on Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:51 am

I bought a Sony for my beloved, and was so impressed I got her to buy one for me as a birthday present. It seems they are becoming just like the early video players different formats with varying degree's of choice in the books available. I remember when they first came out, I did some personal research before buying one, I came up with the conclusion, Phillips where the better quality recorder but had fewer films to chose from, VHS where the worst quality recorder, but had the largest selection of films, Betamax where somewhere in between on both counts. Me thinking the British public would end up going with quality I spent a couple of hundred quid on a really loverly Phillips 2000 machine. Yes we all now know what happened, when it comes to price over quality, the British chose price and within months I had to buy a VHS set or not have a good choice of films. I kept the phillips for recording as they also had double sided tapes which lasted for 8 hours. So when chosing something for yourself, never trust the Public as was shown at the 2010 General Election.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by astra on Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:56 pm

Bobby, as you say there are so many formats for the ebooks, and reader seem to prefer EPUB and PDF.

Download a programme called CLIBRE, it is Kosher and is free - my price exactly!!)

This will change books from HTML LIT and ALL the rest of em

I find the books on Ebay to be very good, and have most of the Patricia Cornwell and Bernard Cornwell and Cussler I could possibly desire. They load with no hitches or glitches. - 2 8 GIG Micro SDHC cards from Play.com £10.00, cheap as chips!!
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by bobby on Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:35 pm

Many thanks for that info V I will look into it. As th information came from you, I knw it will be correct
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Ivan on Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:53 pm

Getting back to the subject of Ed Miliband, it is no doubt with his consent and approval that Ed Balls has been making overtures to the Lib Dems with regard to forming a coalition with Labour now:-
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:21 pm

I can't say I envy any Lib-Dems about to enjoy the full warmth of Ed Balls' friendship and persuasion. A bit like being chatted-up by Gordon Brown, I would imagine.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by keenobserver1 on Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:32 pm

Ivan wrote:Getting back to the subject of Ed Miliband, it is no doubt with his consent and approval that Ed Balls has been making overtures to the Lib Dems with regard to forming a coalition with Labour now:-
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Sounds like somebody is desperate for power!
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Ivan on Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:42 pm

Sounds like somebody is desperate for power!.
Or maybe desperate to save the NHS from being carved up by Lansley's private donors, desperate to stop the rise in homelessness (up 28% this year), and desperate to stop the rise in youth unemployment (up 93% this year).
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:54 pm

The world of currency speculators seems to have decided that the USA is recovering - which has had the side-effect of raising share values on the London Stock Exchange today. The Tory shires may have something to toast apart from crumpets after their Boxing Day Hunt.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by keenobserver1 on Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:58 pm

oftenwrong wrote:The world of currency speculators seems to have decided that the USA is recovering - which has had the side-effect of raising share values on the London Stock Exchange today. The Tory shires may have something to toast apart from crumpets after their Boxing Day Hunt.

Altogether now - Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah! Very Happy
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Ivan on Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:12 pm

Living on borrowed time? Far from it, as these extracts from an article by Neil Clark in ‘The Week’ show:-

Reading newspaper commentators opine about Ed Miliband and his leadership of the Labour Party you'd think that the party had actually lost last week's Feltham and Heston by-election. In fact Labour won it with an 8.56% swing from the Conservatives. The party's share of the vote increased from 43.6% to 54.4% and its majority rose from 4,658 to 6,203.

Labour did very well in a seat which the Tories will probably need to win if they are going to form a majority government after the next election. Moreover, the result was no one-off fluke: Labour has fought five by-elections since Ed Miliband became leader in September 2010 and has won them all. The reality is that far from being (as reported in parts of the press), a "washout" whose prospects are "bleak", Miliband is doing rather well where it actually matters - at the polling station.

Miliband is doing well at the polls because he's shifting - albeit very slowly - towards a more social democratic position which is in tune with public opinion. His party has rigorously opposed Andrew Lansley's unpopular health reforms, which mean the end of the NHS in all but name. And they have unequivocally opposed the coalition's plans to sell-off the Royal Mail. Of course, Miliband can - and should - go further and pledge to renationalise the railways. This would not only be a vote-winner, it would signal that the party has made a clean break with neo-liberalism. But the main thing is that Ed is heading in the right direction, even if media commentators, still wedded to a political model forged in 1979, don't like this deviation from the script.


For the full article:-
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by bobby on Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:55 pm

I dont know what people expect of Edd Miliband. Could it be because he is less personal and more personable, less nasty and is actively trying to put an end to Punch and Judy politics, now I wonder who it was that orriginally said that?.
You just have to watch Prime Ministers Question Time, E Miliband beats Herr Cameron hands down, I cant remember the last time Herr Cameron didn't lose his temper, and resort to name calling, I cant remember the last time he could answer one of Edd Milibands questions. I cant remember the last time Herr Cameron asked more questions of Edd Milliband, than he was able to answer. All Cameron is, is a PR man and is very good at making what he says sound feasable, instead many believe everything the Bastard says, forgetting that a PR mans strongest trait is that of a liar, and Herr Cameron has proven beyond any shaddow of a doubt he is a very acconplishes liar/PR man.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by astra on Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:21 pm

Herr Cameron comes across to me as a salesman - and a bad one at that.

A bad salesman does not believe in the product, and lies through his teeth about reliability and efficacy of follow up, and repair


A good salesman watches the customer, observes traits in their mannerisms, points out a product then answers questions on the item.

In short a good product SELLS ITSELF and the salesman is there to ensure the customer makes the best choice for him/her self!!

Cameron is all hot wilnd, and could not sell a Mars Bar!


Cameron scraps the Navy and the RAF and dismisses 170 trainee pilots, closes air bases - Kinloss now an army base, as is the base just north of Beverly, was RAF Leconfield.

The whole country is scrap, - well I lie!! The "City" is doing just fine thanks!


Last edited by astra on Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:44 pm

QUOTE: " Miliband can - and should - go further and pledge to renationalise the railways."

The British Coal and British Rail (Transfer Proposals) Act 1993 passed by the Tory government of the time goes to great lengths to ensure that re-nationalisation would prove a VERY EXPENSIVE proposition.

Compensating the shareholders alone would cost Billions, and for what? British Rail's operating receipts recovered only a quarter of its operating costs.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by sickchip on Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:40 am

Ed should've encouraged/supported the unions in strike actions.....and should be calling for more industrial action/protest.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by atv on Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:58 pm

Ivan wrote: Miliband is doing well at the polls because he's shifting - albeit very slowly - towards a more social democratic position which is in tune with public opinion.

I gather there was sort of "How do you rate them as leaders" poll on Skynews, that put comrade Miliband third behind Nick Clegg.
Now I didn't see the poll myself and I don't usually give these sort of polls much credence, but third behind Clegg!! Considering the level of abuse and criticism Clegg has had since forming the coalition, if this is true, that surely doesn't look good for Labour.
Is Red Ed arguably the best Labour Leader the Torys have ever had?????
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Ivan on Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:56 pm

atv. It's very kind of you to be concerned for the Labour Party's welfare, but your post was completely discredited the moment you wrote "Red Ed". You're talking about the man who wouldn't even give unequivocal support to people striking in an attempt to save their pensions.

Every poll on leaders at UK Polling Report (a more reliable source than a Murdoch TV channel) has reported Ed Miliband as more popular than Clegg, and by-election results (such as the 8.6% swing from the Tories to Labour in Feltham & Heston) suggest he doesn't have too much to worry about.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by atv on Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:50 pm

Ivan wrote:atv. It's very kind of you to be concerned for the Labour Party's welfare, but your post was completely discredited the moment you wrote "Red Ed". You're talking about the man who wouldn't even give unequivocal support to people striking in an attempt to save their pensions.

So should all posts be discredited when there is name calling ie. herr Cameron.

Regarding pensions the attack on the hard working Middle Class who in 1997 were part of the best Private Pension Schemes in the World, who suffered the demise of one Pension Fund after another. Started by Brown and was continuing with Darling. But the gold plated Public Sector Pensions are protected. Well if we ever needed evidence of the shameful way the Labour Government regards the Middle Class, this is it. Billions have been stolen from Private Pension Funds over Labour's 13 years.

Slightly O/T but when pensioners marched against cuts to their pensions a few years back (when Nu Labour were in government of course), I spied not a single Socialist Worker placard present for some reason..., and how many Labour supporters were there?

Ah, but they're pensioners I here you cry, and Socialist Worker represents workers you dummy! Well, the days of retiring at 65 are long gone for most and one suspects that, due to cuts/threats of cuts, many of those marchers had been forced to take part time jobs to supplement their dwindling income. That classes them as 'workers' by most people's standards..
Socialist Worker And Labour supporters obviously didn't think the pensioners/workers grievances were worth their while though.

Every poll on leaders at UK Polling Report (a more reliable source than a Murdoch TV channel) has reported Ed Miliband as more popular than Clegg, and by-election results (such as the 8.6% swing from the Tories to Labour in Feltham & Heston) suggest he doesn't have too much to worry about.


I did state that I don't hold much credence with polls, but IF it was true.

If you consider a pathetic turnout in a Labour stronghold as a victory then so be it. IMO all parties should be concerned on the apathy of voters.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by bobby on Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:33 pm

atv wrote

"If you consider a pathetic turnout in a Labour stronghold as a victory then so be it. IMO all parties should be concerned on the apathy of voters. "

If you Tory's had anywhere near a brain between you, you would realise that the time you need to get uo off you overfed arses, is at a by-election, in the hope that the vote will hold a small turn out, but no, typical Tory, they sat on their arses and waited for a miracle. They where to Phucking lazy and paid the price. If more Labour voters took the trouble to go out on a rainy night, they deserve the victory. Or perhaps there simply wasn't enough Tory believers to swing it their way. Thats probably closer to the truth.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:54 pm

By-elections are poorly attended, because many people think that voting for a single MP won't affect anything much.

They are wrong of course, because it's the logic of leaving a brick out when you're building a dam.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Ivan on Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:22 pm

atv. 'Herr' is simply the German word for 'mister'. Your use of 'comrade' and 'Red' to describe Ed Miliband implies that he is a Communist, when nothing could be further from the truth.

If by your "attack on pensions" you are referring to the demise of the dividend tax credit, it wasn't started by Gordon Brown but by Tory Chancellor Norman Lamont in 1993.

As to these mythical 'gold plated' public sector pensions, the average is £5,600 per annum. You also conveniently overlook the fact that public sector workers such as teachers pay into their schemes; in fact, since the Teachers' Pension Fund was established in 1923, teachers have paid far more into it than has been paid out, so for the Tories to demand that they pay even more in and get less out is nothing short of theft.

How strange that you also fail to mention that everyone receiving a pension will lose about 15% of their income because Osborne has changed the indexing from RPI to CPI. So while you, in typical Tory fashion, use the old 'divide and rule' tactic to try and set private and public sector workers against each other, and while you drag up the same tired old yarn about something which was phased out in the last millennium, those people working for pensions in the future are being robbed by your lousy government now.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Ivan on Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:52 pm

If you consider a pathetic turnout in a Labour stronghold as a victory then so be it
atv. Feltham & Heston is not a Labour stronghold. In fact, the Tories need to win it back (it had a Tory MP from 1983 to 1992) in order to win an overall majority, and the result of the by-election showed there's little chance of that. Feltham & Heston voted Tory in the GLA elections of 2008, and Boris Johnson had a majority of the mayoral votes in that constituency.

Low turnouts traditionally harm Labour, but in this instance it appears that Labour voters were more motivated to turn vote on a cold December day, which ought to tell you something about current enthusiasm for the Tories. To increase your majority on a much lower turnout is a good result for any party, and to pretend otherwise is just churlish.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by atv on Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:36 pm

Ivan wrote:atv. 'Herr' is simply the German word for 'mister'. Your use of 'comrade' and 'Red' to describe Ed Miliband implies that he is a Communist, when nothing could be further from the truth.

My mistake I wasn't aware David Cameron was German.
Comrade means "friend", "colleague", or "ally". The word comes from French camarade. The term is frequently used by left-wing organizations around the globe. "Comrade" has often become a stock phrase and form of address.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comrade.

If by your "attack on pensions" you are referring to the demise of the dividend tax credit, it wasn't started by Gordon Brown but by Tory Chancellor Norman Lamont in 1993.

Desperate to raise revenue in 1993, he marginally reduced the tax credit the pension funds claimed on dividend payments. At the time the measure was little noticed and produced only a mild reaction from the pensions industry. Company pension funds continued in robust health. But Lamont's mini-raid left the door guarding pension funds slightly ajar - for Brown to come charging through four years later like a bull in a china shop.
Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

As to these mythical 'gold plated' public sector pensions, the average is £5,600 per annum. You also conveniently overlook the fact that public sector workers such as teachers pay into their schemes; in fact, since the Teachers' Pension Fund was established in 1923, teachers have paid far more into it than has been paid out, so for the Tories to demand that they pay even more in and get less out is nothing short of theft.

The average private sector worker retires with a pension pot worth £25,100 - enough to pay them about £1,700 a year. The average public sector worker will retire with a pot of £427,275 - worth £17,091 a year.
Private sector workers pay £14billion a year into their own retirement funds, but contribute around £21billion through their taxes for the pensions of retired public sector workers.
The cost of unfunded public sector pensions liabilities - what the bill would be if all workers were paid out today - has soared past £1trillion.
Gordon Brown's tax raid on pension funds has snatched £17,000 from every worker's retirement pot. Yet the value of public sector schemes - funded by taxpayers - has soared to an astonishing £1trillion.
Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Is the pension you get comparable to a private sector pension built on similar levels of contribution?

I think we all know the answer to that is NO, the public sector pension are far better than comparatively funded private sector pensions.

I've read the government proposals. Those with less than 10 years to go won't see any change in their pension provision; those in the bottom 30% of the pay scales will see their pension increase for either no further contributions or a slight reduction in contribution; it is only those earning considerably above national average salary rates that will be asked to contribute a bit more and get a bit less; and even then their pensions will still be considerably better than anything available in the private sector.
Anyway the Unions want to try and twist it, under the current economic conditions that is a very good deal, and moves public sector pensions one step closer to being sustainable.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Penderyn on Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:48 pm

Like average income, average pension is just a notion. The majority of public sector workers get very poor pensions. If the private centre mugs get even less (which I hugely doubt) it is because they were too mean to pay their union subs, or too scared.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Stox 16 on Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:16 am

atv wrote:
Ivan wrote:atv. 'Herr' is simply the German word for 'mister'. Your use of 'comrade' and 'Red' to describe Ed Miliband implies that he is a Communist, when nothing could be further from the truth.

My mistake I wasn't aware David Cameron was German.
Comrade means "friend", "colleague", or "ally". The word comes from French camarade. The term is frequently used by left-wing organizations around the globe. "Comrade" has often become a stock phrase and form of address.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comrade.

If by your "attack on pensions" you are referring to the demise of the dividend tax credit, it wasn't started by Gordon Brown but by Tory Chancellor Norman Lamont in 1993.

Desperate to raise revenue in 1993, he marginally reduced the tax credit the pension funds claimed on dividend payments. At the time the measure was little noticed and produced only a mild reaction from the pensions industry. Company pension funds continued in robust health. But Lamont's mini-raid left the door guarding pension funds slightly ajar - for Brown to come charging through four years later like a bull in a china shop.
Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

As to these mythical 'gold plated' public sector pensions, the average is £5,600 per annum. You also conveniently overlook the fact that public sector workers such as teachers pay into their schemes; in fact, since the Teachers' Pension Fund was established in 1923, teachers have paid far more into it than has been paid out, so for the Tories to demand that they pay even more in and get less out is nothing short of theft.

The average private sector worker retires with a pension pot worth £25,100 - enough to pay them about £1,700 a year. The average public sector worker will retire with a pot of £427,275 - worth £17,091 a year.
Private sector workers pay £14billion a year into their own retirement funds, but contribute around £21billion through their taxes for the pensions of retired public sector workers.
The cost of unfunded public sector pensions liabilities - what the bill would be if all workers were paid out today - has soared past £1trillion.
Gordon Brown's tax raid on pension funds has snatched £17,000 from every worker's retirement pot. Yet the value of public sector schemes - funded by taxpayers - has soared to an astonishing £1trillion.
Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Is the pension you get comparable to a private sector pension built on similar levels of contribution?

I think we all know the answer to that is NO, the public sector pension are far better than comparatively funded private sector pensions.

I've read the government proposals. Those with less than 10 years to go won't see any change in their pension provision; those in the bottom 30% of the pay scales will see their pension increase for either no further contributions or a slight reduction in contribution; it is only those earning considerably above national average salary rates that will be asked to contribute a bit more and get a bit less; and even then their pensions will still be considerably better than anything available in the private sector.
Anyway the Unions want to try and twist it, under the current economic conditions that is a very good deal, and moves public sector pensions one step closer to being sustainable.



I believe there is a great deal of envious people out there when it comes to public sector pensions.

The real cost of Public sector Pensions is around 1.7% of UK GDP and that falls in 2030 to 1.6% and 1.4% by 2060. The hard fact is public sector workers are already making a sacrifices with a two year pay freeze announced by Gideon himself in 2010. (OBR) The income gap between public sector workers and private sector workers is now 4.3% for men and 10.5% for Woman working in the public sector (IFS)

Add inflation to that which has escalated under the Tories to 5%, in real terms, you will find that most public sector workers and lowest paid recived a fixed rise of just £250. the Pensions Policy Institute, an independent research charity, puts average public sector salaries at £25,600 and those in the private sector at £25,300, nother myth. The average public sector pension is £7,000 compared with the average personal pension of £5,000.

I keep hearing about so-called gold plated public sector pensions. yet can only find can only find Gold epaulets that remain for Army officers. who pay nothing from there salary towards pension contributions and what's more can still retire at 60 years old. while fire fighters pay an equal contribution with the state at 37%. with fire fighters each paying between 8.5% and 11% of there salary. while the police officers pay 9.5% to 11.% of their salary. How many of the private sector do that as per cent of there income? and low incomes at that?

THE PRIVATE SECTOR, THAT WAS DE-REGULATED UNDER MRS THATCHER IN THE 1980s. SO HOW WELL IS THAT DOING THEN? I WOUNDER? LETS TAKE A LOOK

The deficit facing private sector pension funds fell by nearly £40 billion over the last month, the latest statistics have revealed.
The safety net for underfunded pension schemes at insolvent employers - the Pension Protection Fund (PPF) - said that the aggregate deficit of 6,533 schemes was £158.6 billion at the end of October, which was down on the £196.4 billion shortfall recorded in September.

But the aggregate deficit of 6,533 schemes was £158.6 billion at the end of October remains around £150 billion more than it was a year ago when a shortfall of £5.1 billion was recorded.
The PPF added that the comparison with the previous year's figures has been affected by changes made to its calculations in April, which saw liabilities increase by 3.6% and the total balance cut by £34.9 billion.

However, many in the private sector have higher incomes but pay small contribution with millions having no pensions at all. after they fell out of company schemes after the De-regulation of the 80s that today see just 15% of private employees with any sort of private pension at all and as we can see has blow a gaping hole in the private sector's second-class contribution schemes.

Did private sector workers question the running of private sector pensions? No it has not

Did Private sector workers march when companies failed to keep up with contributions? NO that did not

Did private sector worker question underfunded pension schemes that has left an aggregate deficit of 6,533 schemes was £158.6 billion at the end of October 2011? NO they did not

Did they come on here and posted about how bad the private pension deficit? NO. They did not

So there seem many who do not wish to work in the public sector and take lower wages for 40 years but feel envious of public sector pensions yet do not wish to work within the sector? but believe its quite fair to race them down to the bottom.

However, the Government sign these public sector pensions and now in my view duty honour them.

WELL I HAVE A PRIVATE PENSION AND PAY 11.2% OF MY INCOME INTO IT. BUT GOOD LUCK TO THE PUBLIC SECTOR EMPLOYEES, AS THIS IS ONE PERSON WHO IS NOT ENVIOUS OF YOUR PENSION. THAT YOU SIGNED IN GOOD FAITH
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by astradt1 on Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:26 pm

The average private sector worker retires with a pension pot worth £25,100 - enough to pay them about £1,700 a year. The average public sector worker will retire with a pot of £427,275 - worth £17,091 a year.

It's always good to bandy about figures but not give them context.....
We often hear the word pension pot........
What the hell does that mean?
Is the sum put aside from pay, put towards a pension?

If that is the case, then £25K over a 47 year working life is a very small amount paid in each year.......

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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Stox 16 on Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:55 am

astradt1 wrote:
The average private sector worker retires with a pension pot worth £25,100 - enough to pay them about £1,700 a year. The average public sector worker will retire with a pot of £427,275 - worth £17,091 a year.

It's always good to bandy about figures but not give them context.....
We often hear the word pension pot........
What the hell does that mean?
Is the sum put aside from pay, put towards a pension?

If that is the case, then £25K over a 47 year working life is a very small amount paid in each year.......


You pay Income Tax on your earnings before any pension contribution, but the pension provider claims tax back from the government at the basic rate of 20 per cent. In practice, this means that for every £80 you pay into your pension, you end up with £100 in your pension pot. If you pay tax at higher rate, you can claim the difference through your tax return or by telephoning or writing to HMRC. If you're an additional rate taxpayer you'll have to claim the difference through your tax return. HMRC

But to be totally honest with you. the UK pension system is badly broken with public sector pensions by far the best run of any pension system. today most people just cannot afford to save for pensions. even me who owns his own company, I will use sale of property for the most part. what we have is that most people on low salaries having no pensions at all or relying on the sale of there homes at the end of there mortgages. the whole system is such a mess its unreal.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:03 pm

Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Probably, but examine the alternatives. In any case there's nothing an Opposition Party can do but oppose. Only the Government can effect changes, so Milliband is sensible to keep his powder dry for the time being.

David Cameron is in the ascendancy right now, due to having mooned at Sarkozy and the entire Eurozone, which met with instant approval from Britain's lumpemproletariat. Time alone will tell the end result of that little expression of petulance.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by blueturando on Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:56 am

Labour appears to have "no strategy, no narrative and little energy", an influential peer who has advised the party leader has warned.

Lord Glasman reignited debate about Ed Miliband's leadership in a highly critical analysis in which he urged him to do more to take on the Tory/Lib Dem coalition.

While Lord Glasman backed Mr Miliband to show the necessary "leadership and courage" this year and praised some of his achievements, he said he had "not broken through" so far. "He has flickered rather than shone, nudged not led," he wrote

"On the face of it, these look like bad times for Labour and for Ed Miliband's leadership. There seems to be no strategy, no narrative and little energy.

"Old faces from the Brown era still dominate the shadow cabinet and they seem stuck in defending Labour's record in all the wrong ways: we didn't spend too much money, we'll cut less fast and less far, but we can't tell you how."

But he added: "Now is the time for leadership and action. So far Ed has honoured his responsibilities but has not exerted his power. It is time that he did so. And we all need to show him love and support in return. I'm backing Ed Miliband."

The analysis comes after a survey of Labour supporters on the Labour List website found a majority (51%) believed his performance last year had been poor or very poor, and another 29% rated him average. Only 20% of 734 readers of the Labour List website said he had been good or excellent.

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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Stox 16 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:02 am

blueturando wrote:Labour appears to have "no strategy, no narrative and little energy", an influential peer who has advised the party leader has warned.

Lord Glasman reignited debate about Ed Miliband's leadership in a highly critical analysis in which he urged him to do more to take on the Tory/Lib Dem coalition.

While Lord Glasman backed Mr Miliband to show the necessary "leadership and courage" this year and praised some of his achievements, he said he had "not broken through" so far. "He has flickered rather than shone, nudged not led," he wrote

"On the face of it, these look like bad times for Labour and for Ed Miliband's leadership. There seems to be no strategy, no narrative and little energy.

"Old faces from the Brown era still dominate the shadow cabinet and they seem stuck in defending Labour's record in all the wrong ways: we didn't spend too much money, we'll cut less fast and less far, but we can't tell you how."

But he added: "Now is the time for leadership and action. So far Ed has honoured his responsibilities but has not exerted his power. It is time that he did so. And we all need to show him love and support in return. I'm backing Ed Miliband."

The analysis comes after a survey of Labour supporters on the Labour List website found a majority (51%) believed his performance last year had been poor or very poor, and another 29% rated him average. Only 20% of 734 readers of the Labour List website said he had been good or excellent.

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O Dear, as long as there has been opposition leaders there has been criticism from within there own party. It happened to Thatcher, Tony Blair and even Churchill. It's all very familiar and only excites both the media and the Government of the Day. with three years to go, its not the end of the world for him and the way the economy is going I would not be feeling that cocky if I was a Tory.

ITS THE ECONOMY AND NOT LEADERS THAT WIN GE.

BORROWING AT NEW BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS WHILE GROWTH AT A RECORD LOW AND INFLATION AT A HIGH AND UNEMPLOYMENT RUNNING AWAY. but that its not down to Gideon. o know its down to everyone else.

BUDGET 2010 BORROWING TO 2011.
2010/11 borrowing was to be £122 Billion. but ended up at £127 Billion
2011/12 Forecast was £101 billion but will now be £120 billion
2012/13 Forecast was £70 billion but will now be £100 billion
Total Borrowing Gideon said in 2010 would be £299 billion but will now be £347 billion
that's if he can stop dipping into more borrowing in the meantime?
WHO IS BORROWING AND OVERSPENDING? THE TORY PARTY IS

So what have the Tory lead Government spent from 2009 to 2011? £758.7 billion
HM Treasury, OBR Source

Bank of England Q.E £75 Billion (Red Book 2011)
Gideon then put £100 Billion Credit Easing (2011 Budget)
Total Given to Banks to help business if they can get it out of the banks or Treasury £175 Billion, all to be paid back at some point

So Unemployment must be getting better? as its the Tory party in charge. So how big will Gideon's Unemployed Army get?

Unemployment UP from the 2010 forecast from 7.9% to 8.1% 2011
Unemployment Up from the 2011 forecast to 8.7% in 2012
Unemployment small drop in 2013 to 8.6%
UK unemployment rose by 129,000 in the three months to September to 2.62 million, as youth unemployment rose above a million.

The jobless total for 16 to 24-year-olds hit a record of 1.02 million in the quarter and female unemployment was at its highest for 23 years.

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said the jobless rate hit 8.3%.

The number of people out of work and claiming Jobseeker's Allowance rose by 5,300 to 1.6 million in October.

The news comes as the Bank of England's governor Sir Mervyn King said Britain's economy could stagnate
HM Treasury, OBR Scoure

(1) To hack to bits the public sector and then sit on his hand a wait for the private sector to take up the slack TORY FAILURE
(2) TO cut fast and Deep in a re-run of there failed policies of 1980s, as this was their only stimulus they could think of at the time. yet this statement has been shown by the OBR to do nothing of the sort. (from there own figures) TORY FAILURE
(3) TO end reckless borrowing and overpending. only to borrow an extra £122 Billion and overspend by £127 Billion TORY FAILURE
(4) TO end QE. only to end up begging the bank of England to do some more QE £75 Billion TORY FAILURE

While that overspend is being reduced, the UK's debts continue to grow.

The UK had one of the worst budget deficit's in the EU in the last fiscal year, at more than 10% of GDP. It was second only to Ireland (-32.4%) and Greece (-10.5%). Basically that means the British government spent more than it earned - to the tune of £146bn, according to the OBR in Gideons red book in last budget. TORY FAILURE



Britain owed £967bn in October 2011, up from £837bn a year earlier, according to the ONS [read the full release]. It is likely to hit £1 trillion in 2012-13, given that economists forecast a need to borrow more than £120bn in the 2011/12 financial year. TORY FAILURE

he OBR forecast in April 2011 was for UK debt to peak at 71% of GDP in 2013-14. That doesn't include interventions aimed at stabilising the banking system, where most of the money should be recouped. With those extras included, the total figure is £2.3 trillion. Tory failure

A drop in everyones disposable incomes up from 7% to 8% the worst fall in disposable incomes since the 1970s (OBR)


HM Treasury, OBR Scoure only
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by sickchip on Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:16 am

The nation is divided! We have those that imagine their taxes are being stolen by millions of lazy workshy benefit claimees (suckers for tory propaganda that diverts attention from real issues), and in the opposing corner those who are clinging to the notion of social responsibility towards those down on their luck or short on life chances.

Which way you leaning?
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Stox 16 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:34 am

sickchip wrote:The nation is divided! We have those that imagine their taxes are being stolen by millions of lazy workshy benefit claimees (suckers for tory propaganda that diverts attention from real issues), and in the opposing corner those who are clinging to the notion of social responsibility towards those down on their luck or short on life chances.

Which way you leaning?

well I guess it would be..... opposing corner those who are clinging to the notion of social responsibility towards those down on their luck or short on life chances.

and this is very true with the media right now.....suckers for tory propaganda that diverts attention from real issues
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by witchfinder on Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:21 am

If there were to be a general election tomorrow, I think most posters would not be suprised to learn that I would put my "X" next to the Labour candidate.

But I do have some concerns, yes its marvelous and to a degree comforting to see Labour winning all those by-elections, but I feel something is not quite right.

This mornings YouGov poll puts Labour 4 points ahead of the Conservatives, and UK Polling Report predicts a hung parliament with Labour been short by six seats, that is if there were to be an election now.

I cannot help but wonder, when the economy is in a worse situation than it was in 2010, when the beloved NHS is under threat, when unemployment, poverty and homelesness is set to rise, why Labour is not 10 points ahead.

Perhaps its just me, am I missing something here
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:25 am

Tory newspapers and Sky News, possibly?
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by bobby on Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:07 pm

Witchy. All we see that’s happening is that Herr Cameron has been and still is playing games. He (and his sycophantic followers) has no policies that’s worth anything, so has to resort to what’s left Rhetoric and personal attacks. His rhetoric we hear every time he opens his foul mouth and personal attacks when he has no answers to a question, which is every time he is asked one.
He took a small jump in the polls purely down to appeasing the little Englanders, those that think we are or could be a world leader and believe Churchill still lives.
Lets face it, he did what many Brits would like to do and that is to attack the Frogs, anyone who attacks them will be on a sure albeit temporary winner.
If Herr Cameron had the balls to call an election now that he has all but alienated the UK from Europe, whatever Lib-Dem support he may be able to rely on, will not support the Tory’s come the next General Election, and how much of their core support will vote for them again, after the last deceitfully run election ( Vote for us to keep the Tory’s out). They have squandered any chance of being in Government ever again, and good riddance.
Who else is there to vote for, “UKIP?” they are OK if you want an anti Europe Conservative Party, very few left leaning voters will touch that one trick party, after them who is there, the only answer is Labour and they will win the next General Election as and when its run. Even Herr Cameron knows that, that is why he is pushing through his damaging policies, before they have been thought through and whilst there are plenty of distractions like wars and Argentinian sabre rattling. I honestly don’t think either The Tory’s or the Lie-Dems have a chance of winning an elections. People say all sorts of things for a poll, but an Election is a totally different matter.
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Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Post by Phil Hornby on Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:58 pm

It would indeed be great fun to see any incoming Labour PM telling us all ad nauseam what a mess was inherited from the previous Conservative Government... Very Happy
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