Is it right for bankers to act like this? Anyone for a cheap drink?

First topic message reminder :

So Cameron looks after the interests of the City Bankers while they have a cheap drink or two. are you happy with this?

In an interview with the Times, Diamond said the rule applied to bankers considered to be prima donnas, too greedy, too ostentatious or poor team players. He said he had already kicked out 30 staff for breaking his new ethics rule.

"If someone can't behave with their colleagues and can't be part of the culture, it doesn't matter how good they are at what they do, they have to be asked to leave," he said.

Referring to the incident at the Gordon Ramsay restaurant Petrus, Diamond said: "That was embarrasing. It was taking advantage – we have a responsibility to our colleagues to have acted that way in a public place was inexcusable."

The bankers consumed some of the most expensive wine available to London diners: a 1982 Montrachet priced at £1,400 and three bottles of Petrus Pomerol. A 1945 bottle of Petrus cost £11,600, a 1946 bottle £9,400 and a 1947 bottle £12,300. There was also a dessert wine costing £9,200. The restaurant threw in the food for free.

Still.... as Cameron said, We must look after the interests of the City from Europe. I can see what he means by this. as its so worrying that they are driven to drinking £12,300 bottles of wine. Still they do pay the Tory party £6 million a year to look after them. Wounder who looks after the rest of US? or the 2.7Million Unemployed.

[quote="oftenwrong"]Participation in this discussion is voluntary.

A very fair summary OW.. i must say.

OWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWWO
ouch

[quote="oftenwrong"]The Governor of The Bank of England, no less, has today announced publicly that there will be no growth in the UK economy this year. Quelle surprise!

By way of explanation there is uncertainty in the Eurozone, and the problems are global.

But up to now they have been saying that it was all the fault of Gordon Brown and the previous administration.

Hard to know who to believe, isn't it?

Innit OW? I've been pointing this out since the Global Crisis began. The press and the media crucified Brown over a global banking catastrophie that was nailed at his doorstep and the guillable electorate swollowed it all hook line and sinker. Now that the Tories have had their feed on the political gain derived by the incorrect and distorted information, dished out to us daily, they now claim that the current lack of growth is a global problem, when in reality it is very much a home grown one. A tory one at that, that the weak LD's went sailing along with.

Why do we continue to let these people rob the banks and destroy the country? Is it because they operate inside the system with the blessing of government law? They are a far more adept criminal enterprise than the mafia could ever manage. The UK is nothing but a protection racket.

sickchip wrote:Why do we continue to let these people rob the banks and destroy the country? Is it because they operate inside the system with the blessing of government law? They are a far more adept criminal enterprise than the mafia could ever manage. The UK is nothing but a protection racket.

Why do we continue to let these people rob the banks and destroy the country? great question SickChip.... But then most people out there have no idea at all about economics..... you do, so you can see it. in fact 99% of the members on this forum understand basic economics. However, most of the country have no idea at all. The City of London is a state within a state and that is a fact and you can look it up.

Gideon is a utter fool and a state criminal who has no idea about economics at all.

If Gideon goes on like this we will be in a Gross domestic product decline with a de-industrialisation of our manufacturing industries for years to come and will speed up. The impact on our public finances will be twofold. first a massive decline in manufacturing employment will take place again with a reduced tax base. the outcome will be one of substantially fewer worker, especially male manual workers, in full time employment, with a long term growth in unemployment. thus revenue to the exchequer will be curtailed and social benefit payments will be cut again in real terms.

secondly, the state will in the end have to move to protect post-tax profitability of what is left of our industrial companies and my well have to increase direct grants and other forms of aid to them. as there will be a decline in manufacturing investment and capital expenditure. I believe we could well see major technological innovations within our industry coming to a stop while we see a intensifying of international competition take place as our economy losses its competitiveness in key overseas markets as they take advantage of our lack of any economic growth policy.


Gideon is speeding up our decaling market share with his policy of retreat. the 0.7% in Q2 and the deteriorating economic performance will have a extreme impact on our on our overseas trade with a greater swing to net imports. We could see a sort term boost due to London Olympics and ticket sales and visitors' spending. but I expect this to fall away by Q1 in 2013. What is very clear is that construction is a direct result of this governments disproportionate capital cuts in public spending. The influence must also have been felt in timber, furniture etc.

if all these UK economic figures are brought together they signal the most profound structural crisis for the British economy in my life time. but all of that has been made far worse by a grossly mismanaged recession, which in the hand of this Tory lead Coalition government has turned into a devastating economic slump.


However, How lucky we are to have Gideon leading us even faster into economic recession while standing next to a building site black hole. But once more in interviews the Chancellor claimed he was “relentlessly focused” on sorting the economy out in the same way (presumably as King Canute was also determined to keep the tide back?). This, as ever, was worthless economic right wing drivel because it is clear to all that the government's economic policy of austerity has failed and they have no clue what to do.

All we hear from our so called Chancellor was yet more excuses about our dwindling economic position while still attempting to pass the blame on anyone or anything other than himself. Still I have every expectation that within a few days the UK will lose its AAA credit rating. I never thought it was actually a big deal as proved by the fact that when France was downgraded and bond yields fell. But Slasher Osborne set it up as something he should be judged against and so we should all do that.

The economic paralysis the Tories are leading us into is getting very deep indeed, as they are using a great deal of long term borrowing that is stacking up a get deal of trouble for us in years to come. the biggest problem is that this government has turned any question of capital expenditure into a dirty word within the media. so as soon as we start this they will call it reckless expenditure. which its not if its planned and managed Em.

The other thing is we must move away from absolute constraints of our economy like the banking and finance sectors and instead re-balance our economy and increase productive investment within manufacturing. we have to end this tradition of City of London with its Ant-manufacturing snobbery they spend hours saying they do not have?... but is seen in every bit of economic data seen. its so important that we move away from banking and finance administrators and back to engineers and industrial leaders. its high time we also end these lecturers from the right wingers with there doctrine that has declared that everything from the City of London is good and everything in manufacturing is bad and old hat.

Also its so very important that we kill this Myth that our manufacturing sector cannot compete with the far east. as not only can we compete with the far east but will do so with modernised manufacturing institutions that sell quality products such has been clearly demonstrated of Jaguar Land Rover's.

JLR is busy reinventing itself as a technology company with a great heritage, rather than a carmaker that merely carries forward old traditions.

"We will continue to invest in new products, develop new technologies and enhance the skills of our employees," said chief executive Ralf Speth.

JLR is enjoying dramatic growth across the world, having recorded a 19% rise in sales during the first half of this year when compared with the same period in 2011.

its companies like this one that show that this right wing Myth of our industrial decline is quite wrong and that a process of industrial modernisation can regenerate the UK economy. its so very important that there is a transformation of our technology into our production and manufacturing. we have to brake free of this right wing view that has lead us to all believe everything rests on the finance sector and that our existing system is the only way forward.

as it does not matter how the right wing dress this all up as they just cannot get away from the fact that our industrial competitive weakness with its relatively low level of investment in our industrial capacity has lead to a slower growth of productivity than all our main rival countries. the fact is that German and US industry has never relied as much as British on the supply of finance from its own resources often instead borrowing from outside investors. this exposes another of the recurrent themes: the camparative separation of industrial from financial capital. The Tories have added to the rivalry of finance and industry with there backing of the City over that of industry. But lets be very clear about the main reason for this? one has Union's in it? and the other is free mostly of trade unions.

However, I have said it before. we are at a economic cross roads right now. its something the Center Left has to win this time around.

All good stuff Stoxy.

Good posts, stox.....well said.

They haven't done very well, the Coalition, have they?

How can we get rid of them? Any ideas, anyone?

"Any ideas, anyone?"

Gunpowder and a long taper.

Stox 16 wrote:If Gideon goes on like this we will be in a Gross domestic product decline with a de-industrialisation of our manufacturing industries for years to come and will speed up. The impact on our public finances will be twofold. first a massive decline in manufacturing employment will take place again with a reduced tax base. the outcome will be one of substantially fewer worker, especially male manual workers, in full time employment, with a long term growth in unemployment. thus revenue to the exchequer will be curtailed and social benefit payments will be cut again in real terms.

secondly, the state will in the end have to move to protect post-tax profitability of what is left of our industrial companies and my well have to increase direct grants and other forms of aid to them. as there will be a decline in manufacturing investment and capital expenditure. I believe we could well see major technological innovations within our industry coming to a stop while we see a intensifying of international competition take place as our economy losses its competitiveness in key overseas markets as they take advantage of our lack of any economic growth policy.


Gideon is speeding up our decaling market share with his policy of retreat. the 0.7% in Q2 and the deteriorating economic performance will have a extreme impact on our on our overseas trade with a greater swing to net imports. We could see a sort term boost due to London Olympics and ticket sales and visitors' spending. but I expect this to fall away by Q1 in 2013. What is very clear is that construction is a direct result of this governments disproportionate capital cuts in public spending. The influence must also have been felt in timber, furniture etc.

if all these UK economic figures are brought together they signal the most profound structural crisis for the British economy in my life time. but all of that has been made far worse by a grossly mismanaged recession, which in the hand of this Tory lead Coalition government has turned into a devastating economic slump.


However, How lucky we are to have Gideon leading us even faster into economic recession while standing next to a building site black hole. But once more in interviews the Chancellor claimed he was “relentlessly focused” on sorting the economy out in the same way (presumably as King Canute was also determined to keep the tide back?). This, as ever, was worthless economic right wing drivel because it is clear to all that the government's economic policy of austerity has failed and they have no clue what to do.

All we hear from our so called Chancellor was yet more excuses about our dwindling economic position while still attempting to pass the blame on anyone or anything other than himself. Still I have every expectation that within a few days the UK will lose its AAA credit rating. I never thought it was actually a big deal as proved by the fact that when France was downgraded and bond yields fell. But Slasher Osborne set it up as something he should be judged against and so we should all do that.

What a super post and you have there number Stox

oftenwrong wrote:They haven't done very well, the Coalition, have they?

How can we get rid of them? Any ideas, anyone?

Well OW i am with you as this lot are total crap. as for getting rid of them, we need to do something fast or we will end up with a economy that is about as good as Zimbabwe

Lovely cartoon in today's Sunday Times, by Herneman:


G. Osborne at desk saying, "I'm representing TeamGB in the Triple Slump!"

CBI director-general John Cridland argued this week that banks need to be free from the “millstone” of compensation payments for PPI.

They just don't get it, do they? The answer must be to prohibit the snivelling hoi polloi from accessing their savings unless successful in a weekly ballot to be held once a year.

The Public Accounts Committee are about to report on the Treasury's handling of the Banking crisis of 2008.

It's likely to say that we're never going to see our money back.

That's a surprise.

Source: dorseteye.com

Lovely, that - glad you posted it - had forgotten what a rousing song it is.
It should be broadcast regularly on standard media (Radio 1 breakfast show e.g.)

Today's headline: Royal Bank of Scotland has fuelled more fury over bonuses as it revealed a £607 million haul for workers in spite of recent scandals and another £5.2 billion in losses.

Mr Osborne proposes that all of us receive £400 worth of shares in RBS.
What's the antonym of wealth-creation?

Disgusting isn't OW. This should have been sorted out in the days of "Sir Fred". Do you think they survived because they're based in Gordon Browns constituency?

"Gordon Brown's Constituency" would have been much too parochial for Fred-the-shred, who had ambition to become a Banker on the World Stage, and it was his determination to acquire (the Dutch bank) ABN Amro that sealed his Fate - and ours too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7033176.stm

Re: EU proposals on cutting bankers bonuses.

So, despite all the lip service to the public from our mps since 2008 criticising bankers and the ridiculous bonuses they get, when push comes to shove it turns out the bankers pretty much have cross party support.

Another thing - some people seem to be justifying this saying it's a good thing that a small minority pay a large % of revenue, when in fact it only serves to demonstrate how bad levels of inequality are and that wage differentials need radically reducing, wealth needs redistributing, we need a living wage and the introduction of a maximum wage.

Agree totally sickchip, especially the maximum wage.

".... the introduction of a maximum wage ...."

That should make the rest of us more wealthier than wot we are now, shouldn't it?

The sort of people who really run UK PLC don't earn WAGES - their property increases in value every twelve months as the rent receipts go up.

Since '79 the general workforces share of GDP shrunk by 12% up to 2008.....and their share is still shrinking. That money has been redirected/redistributed back into the hands of the few.

Barclays top pay is now 75x the average worker - 1979 the figure was 14.5x. The lead executive's pay since '79 has risen by 4,899%.

These figures are similar across many other companies too.


ow...but it is only wot is fair for the ones wot work hard to get bigger money cos they deserves it.

I guess we now know the real reason why the British government have been seeking repatriation of powers from Brussels........merely to protect their buddies in the banks.

And what do Labour have to say....ho hum.

Gideon Osborne, no less, failed today in his attempt to influence the other 26 Finance Ministers of the EU to abandon their plans to limit ("cap" if you're trending) bonus payments to Bankers.

Now all those valuable foreign hedge-fund managers who have done so much for the British Economy may scuttle off back to where they came from.

Quelle domage.

Ignore their howls of protest. If bankers leave the country, it would be no loss.

Extracts from an article by Simon Jenkins:-

"The peasants are revolting across Europe. Until now, public response to the credit crunch has been one of general bafflement and wrist-slapping. The banks persuaded the world it was all an act of fate. As it was, they were too big to fail and their leaders too saintly to atone for it. For four years, British banks were showered with nearly half a trillion pounds of public and printed money. They duly recovered and stayed rich, while everyone else went poor.

The worm has turned. The banks and government alike have failed to deliver recovery. The people want revenge, and the European Parliament has declared that EU bankers cannot get bonuses bigger than their salaries, or twice as big if shareholders approve. This applies wherever EU bankers work, and to any overseas banker working in the EU. Meanwhile, a Swiss referendum now requires top executives to seek explicit shareholder approval for their pay, with a ban on golden hellos and goodbyes. The Netherlands is talking of a tighter 20% cap on bonuses.

Only in Britain do ministers still dance to the bankers' tune. Last month RBS executives brushed aside their state shareholder and paid themselves £600m in bonuses after posting a £5bn loss. Loss-making Lloyds dipped into its till and gave senior staff an extra £365m. Money-laundering HSBC announced 78 of its London executives would take home more than £1m each. They all say bonuses were unrelated to fines or losses, but they always say that. Osborne was humiliated in Brussels by having to plead their fruitless cause."

For the full article:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/06/if-bankers-leave-it-would-be-no-loss

Interesting article highlighting how the previous and present govenment's are so obsessed with the banks that they have in effect been able to regulate themselves.

Don’t blame the HBOS bankers, blame the politicians who cosied up to them
Today's indictment by the Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards of the men who brought HBOS to its knees should extend well beyond them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/epic/hbos/9971610/Dont-blame-the-HBOS-bankers-blame-the-politicians-who-cosied-up-to-them.html

To a point I'd agree with you. Yet for all the obviousness of the lesson, the current government is bending over backwards to avoid having to do anything about it.

Learn from past mistakes and put the buggers in a straitjacket.

sickchip wrote:Since '79 the general workforces share of GDP shrunk by 12% up to 2008.....and their share is still shrinking. That money has been redirected/redistributed back into the hands of the few.

Barclays top pay is now 75x the average worker - 1979 the figure was 14.5x. The lead executive's pay since '79 has risen by 4,899%.

These figures are similar across many other companies too.

If that 12% was still in the hands of the general workforce do you think the welfare bill would be as large............of course it wouldn't.

Following the recent farce involving Lord Stevenson and his fellow partners in crime (IMO), I'd like to point the following out:

Icelandic bankers were jailed for making reckless loans, and fraud.
We let ours off with a small cut to their pensions and bonuses.

...that should tell you who really governs the UK - or at least who UK governments represent.

Oh! You noticed. The 2008 fiasco demonstrated very clearly that global financial institutions are stronger than any Government.

A lavish gala dinner that has been the previous highlight of the London hedge fund industry's social calendar and counted royalty among its guests, has been quietly shelved.

Read more from Reuters HERE

As I have often said before: "Even chimpanzees learn by their mistakes, but bankers seem unable to do this !"

This Hedge-fund trading practices makes me think: Someone, somewhere is bound to be losing a lot of cash if these hedge-fund gamblers are making so much money on their doubtful practices.

It is not as if they are creating any new money; all they are doing is shuffling the money around that is already in the system.

What I mean by this is, that if there are great winners in one place then there also has to be great losers somewhere does there not ?

Can ANYBODY explain this to me please ?

Regards....

Papaumau.

Boris Johnson’s curious use of facts in attacking the Robin Hood Tax
 
Extracts from an article by Simon Chouffot:-
 
In taking a swipe at the proposal for a European Financial Transaction Tax - every City fat cat's favourite bug bear at the moment – Boris Johnson chronically misrepresented how it works.

11 countries - including Germany, Italy, France and Spain - are due to implement the tax of between 0.01% - 0.1% on transactions of stocks, bonds and derivatives by 2014. It could raise those countries involved £30 billion. Boris called on "German, Italian and Spanish banks to move their HQs here to London so that they can escape the tax on their operations around the world".

That’s factually incorrect. The crucial point is that no matter where in the world transactions take place, the tax can still be captured. If a German bank moves its HQ to London, scarpers to New York or sets up on a beach in the Cayman Islands, transactions involving German stocks, bonds and derivatives will still be captured. It is not the first time Johnson has misrepresented how the FTT works.

Seven of the 20 largest stock exchanges in the world have successful FTTs. Around 40 countries raise approximately £25 billion a year from such taxes - they are proven revenue raisers. By not joining the European FTT, the UK will forego £8.5 billion in tax, according to respected City figure Avinash Persaud. Can we really afford to turn down such revenue?

As someone with ambitions to be Prime Minister, Johnson should assess the FTT not on the effect it will have on his "old friends", but on how it could benefit Britain. At the very least he should get his facts right.
 
For the full article:-
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/simon-chouffot/boris-johnson-taxes_b_3642924.html

US Regulator Sues Major Banks Over Libor Manipulation

The US Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation sued HSBC, Citigroup, Deutsche Bank and 12 other global banking heavyweights on Friday for manipulating the Libor benchmark interest rate.
The manipulation caused "substantial losses" to 38 US banks that were shut down due to insolvency during and after the 2008 financial crisis, according to the FDIC.

The regulator said the accused institutions cheated the closed banks in US dollar-based Libor swaps and other agreements through the manipulation of the rate between 2007 and 2011.

Libor, or the London Interbank Offered Rate, is used as a reference for some $350 trillion worth of financial contracts worldwide, from corporate loans to financial swap contracts.

"The panel bank defendants fraudulently and collusively suppressed USD Libor, and they did so to their advantage," the FDIC's filing said.

The banks named are, or were, participants in setting the daily Libor rate.

They include Bank of America, Citigroup and JPMorgan Chase of the United States, Germany's Deutsche Bank and WestLB, Britain's HSBC, Barclays and Lloyds banks, Japan's Norinchukin Bank and Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi, Credit Suisse and UBS of Switzerland, Royal Bank of Scotland, Royal Bank of Canada and Rabobank of the Netherlands.

Several of the banks have already paid substantial fines to regulators and judicial authorities in the United States and Europe for participating in rate-fixing.

Also sued was the British Bankers' Association, which at the time oversaw the banks' daily fixing of Libor.
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/03/us-regulator-sues-major-banks-over-libor

 
It seems that the only country which is trying to make banks accountable for their past actions is the USA as yet again British banks are under scrutiny for their underhand dealings, this will no doubt result in yet another large fine but again it will go to the USA not the British Government.
 
When will this government take action?
 
These fines are possible reasons why British Banks are so reluctant to lend any of the cheap money they have got from the British tax payer via this government and we all know that we keep getting told that the age of 'free' banking is coming to an end....Banks have to make a profit from some one so why not their British customers?

".... why not their British customers?"

We're a captive audience, the Banks collectively owe each taxpayer in the land £150,000 for the 2008 bailout.

Will they be paying it back anytime soon, do you think? - only I'd really love a bigger boat

 

.... on a sea of dreams ....

Bank of England governor Mark Carney says that bankers caused the 2008 global financial crash and got away with it:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2790469/bankers-caused-crash-got-away-says-carney-bank-england-chief-says-bosses-paid-higher-price.html

(Apologies for the source.)  

So it wasn't "all Labour's fault" after all? Will the Tories take note and stop spreading the biggest lie in modern British politics? I somehow doubt it.  

I can't avoid the thought that the words "Tory" and "Banker" have no separate meaning from each other.