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Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

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Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

Did you know that this Tory lead coalition Government have cut the pensioners Winter Fuel Payment, they say, in a bid to save money and cut the Deficit. I write this because the BBC TV media have not picked up on it.

For the over 60’s, the coalition have cut £50 off the payment which was £250 a year, it is now £200, and for the over 80’s they have cut the Winter fuel payment by £100, taking it from £400 to £300. And I have to repeat that this cut in the Winter Fuel payment has not been picked up by the media. And both the cuts, and the media indifference is another national scandal.

The coalition have stated this cut is to save money and cut the Deficit. But it is not to save money. It is because the right wing are driven by an ideological hatred of the welfare state. It is an arrogance against the poor, against the old.

The very existence of the former New Labour Government’s Winter Fuel payment paid to 12 million pensioners, means that the basic State pension is not enough to live on, yet more than 30,000 UK pensioners have died of cold related illnesses since 1997.

The Unions have never taken up this issue up on behalf of Britain’s elderly people, and in my view this is because our elderly people have no labour to withdraw to grab the media’s attention.

Britain’s State retirement pension has lost value over the last 30 years, it is fast diminishing. It is way below the EU average of 57 per cent. The State pension in this country is set at just 17 per cent of average earnings.

The recent public sector pension strikes have proved what can be achieved when people are hit personally, now the public and private sectors should get together and support our elderly people for higher State pensions, even though this does not affect worker’s, yet

This and previous right wing Government’s, including New Labour, have managed to divide British workers from the pensioners of this country, and these Government’s have forced people into self interest. It is time this was reversed. But how to achieve this perpetual me, me, me attitude that has spawned from the Thatcher era around 30 years ago, that’s the problem, because this self interest is inherent.

Britain’s elderly people are the backbone of our nation, in longevity terms alone they have contributed more to this country than other age groups. But the attitude from politicians is as if our elderly people haven’t paid a penny.

But their taxes and NI contributions have indeed been contributed, the Welfare State, and the NHS was founded from pensioners taxes and NI contributions when they were working, yet this generation have fundamentally been ignored since the 80’s, 30 years ago.

The richest people in this country had done extremely well since the 80’s, whereas our elderly people have been robbed of their full State pension rights in the name of political dogma.

Where do we as a nation get off allowing this and previous right wing Government’s to treat our elderly people so badly ?

And it’s this time of year when poverty is keenly felt, but not by our politicians, who in my view have not got a clue.

As Christmas eve draws near and New year’s eve follows, the political history of Britain since the 80’s has frankly reduced been to decadence.

Growing a massive rich and poor divide, which was made worse by the New Labour Government.

And now this Tory lead coalition are hitting the poor again and again and all due to ideology.

I am ashamed of my fellow countrymen and woman for being laid back and reserved when it comes to others suffering from these decadent policies administered by our right wing politicians, who do not have to endure them, themselves.

And now I am worried about how many more elderly people are going to suffer untimely deaths through this cold weather ?

If the Tory’s really wanted to cut the Deficit, there are a number of ways they could achieve this, without hurting the
most vulnerable people in this country.

This Deficit cutting is one big excuse for Cameron to attack Britain’s most vulnerable people, and I cannot believe Nick Clegg is supporting this.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:40 pm

Redflag wrote:
astra wrote:
I could not put a zip on my mouth so with me its both integrity and holding my tongue
.




Ochone, Ochone, Woe is me!!


We Scots do seem to have such a problem with Diplomacy!! Very Happy

I will warn you all now the biggest flaw in my character is TACTLESS in the EXTREME.

The people say they want honest politicians.

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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by astra on Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:41 pm

Being a man "of few words" I have no idea what you mean! Very Happy




My wife accuses me of having "Athlete's Throat" how unkind is that? Sad
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivan on Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:55 pm

The crime of treason still exists in this country, as it probably does in every country of the world. Tony Blair did not rescind the crime of treason, he abolished the death penalty for treason:-

TREASON ACTS
1351: Defines offence
1495: Allows defence
1695: Regulates trials
1702: Bans hindering succession
1708: English/Scottish law harmonised
1814: Ends disembowelling etc
1842: Deals with firearms, attempts to alarm monarch
1848: Deals with radical agitation
1998: Crime act ends death penalty
All acts still in force

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7288516.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8511120.stm

Since the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 became law, the maximum sentence for high treason in the UK has been life imprisonment. But the crime of treason still exists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_treason_in_the_United_Kingdom

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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:36 pm

"Tony Blair did not rescind the crime of treason, he abolished the death penalty for treason:-"

Though an exception was made for Dr.Kelly
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivan on Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:46 pm

often wrong:
Though an exception was made for Dr.Kelly.
I never had you down as a conspiracy theorist. Did the Duke of Edinburgh have Diana bumped off? I think not. Were the moon landings faked up in a Hollywood studio? Even less likely. Was Shakespeare really Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford? It would appear from my thread as if nobody gives a damn. Is Elvis Presley alive and well, playing the drums, living in Wimbledon and calling himself 'brownboots1'? Now that's a different matter....
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by blueturando on Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:53 pm

I think it was fair to say Dr.Kelly was probably driven to suide by the betrayal of Blair and his cohorts....but we are covering old ground and old news

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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:13 pm

Ivan wrote:
often wrong:
Though an exception was made for Dr.Kelly.
I never had you down as a conspiracy theorist. Did the Duke of Edinburgh have Diana bumped off? I think not. Were the moon landings faked up in a Hollywood studio? Even less likely. Was Shakespeare really Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford? It would appear from my thread as if nobody gives a damn. Is Elvis Presley alive and well, playing the drums, living in Wimbledon and calling himself 'brownboots1'? Now that's a different matter....

Not a Conspiracy Theorist, but I do believe in the cock-up principle of Government. I also agree with the Sherlock Holmes pronouncement, "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:59 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
Ivan wrote:
often wrong:
Though an exception was made for Dr.Kelly.
I never had you down as a conspiracy theorist. Did the Duke of Edinburgh have Diana bumped off? I think not. Were the moon landings faked up in a Hollywood studio? Even less likely. Was Shakespeare really Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford? It would appear from my thread as if nobody gives a damn. Is Elvis Presley alive and well, playing the drums, living in Wimbledon and calling himself 'brownboots1'? Now that's a different matter....

Not a Conspiracy Theorist, but I do believe in the cock-up principle of Government. I also agree with the Sherlock Holmes pronouncement, "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".

Here's one for you. Is Robert Maxwell really dead. ?
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by sickchip on Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:05 am

Would it be appropriate to mention the twin towers at this juncture; and the third building (building 7 - FBI headquarters) that collapsed?
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:26 am

"Is Robert Maxwell really dead. ?".

or Lord "Lucky" Lucan?

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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:33 am

Gove Hits the Rocks
(thisislondon.co.uk)

" ..and then the kindly Secretary of State for Education said: ' Despite all the old people dying of cold, why don't we buy the Queen a new Yacht - because he is a complete......' er.....gosh, sorry girls, I can't say that word..."
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Redflag on Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:06 am

Ivanhoe wrote:
Redflag wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:
blueturando wrote:Labour

I am sorry, but I found your response to be rather childish and foolish, hence my "reasonable" response back.

Traditional Labour Government's of the past, simply believed in fairness, and these traditional Labour Government's were fair.

Whereas Hitlers National Socialism did indeed put people to work, but Hitler's ethos was that it was the "undesirables" who were at fault for Germany's failures, and this "thinking" was also at the root of Thatcherism.

Let us put it this way Ivanhoe Thatcher nor Cameron give a shit for the normal working man never have and never will, the ones they care about are the ones with Millions or even Billions in the bank and the CEOs at the top of Companies it has been proved the rich have increased there Millions in the bank in the last YEAR while the rest of us have had too loose jobs have pay freezes and some even though there working have to go to FOOD BANKS to keep the WOLF from the door and I think that says it all.

Yes, I agree Redflag, but you just cannot get this into the thick head grass roots Tory supporters any of this.

Never have I heard a truer word Ivan you have hit the nail on the head Precisely , I am on another forum also and trying to give true facts and figures to Tory votes is like P***ING against the wind they can not or will not believe the facts and figures even when there from there Gov't.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Redflag on Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:11 am

Ivanhoe wrote:
Redflag wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:
oftenwrong wrote:Aren't we all glad NOT to be Ed Milliband, just now?

I kid you not, if I were in Milliband's shoes, I would tell my advisers to go bury their heads, and I would say to the media, everything I have said on here.

Britain is in pigshit because our politicians are playing court to Britain's middle classes. Frankly I would and could not get into politics holding my intregrity in place, if I had to bow and scrape to anybody, let alone middle england.

I could not get into politics for a similar reason Ivan, my reason would be I could not put a zip on my mouth so with me its both integrity and holding my tongue.

It depends how you say things.

Ivanhoe I tend to tell it like it is no dressing up in nicely spade is spade in my book.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by jackthelad on Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:20 am

[quote="Redflag"][quote="Ivanhoe"]
Redflag wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:
oftenwrong wrote:Aren't we all glad NOT to be Ed Milliband, just now?


Ivanhoe I tend to tell it like it is no dressing up in nicely spade is spade in my book.

Political parties don't get elected by telling the truth, they bend the truth by calling a spade a shovel, honesty is not the best policy if you want to be a politician, you tell the voters what they want to hear, then do what they want when they are elected.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:50 am

[quote="jackthelad"][quote="Redflag"]
Ivanhoe wrote:
Redflag wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:
oftenwrong wrote:Aren't we all glad NOT to be Ed Milliband, just now?


Ivanhoe I tend to tell it like it is no dressing up in nicely spade is spade in my book.

Political parties don't get elected by telling the truth, they bend the truth by calling a spade a shovel, honesty is not the best policy if you want to be a politician, you tell the voters what they want to hear, then do what they want when they are elected.

How I wish we Brit's had the guts of the Europeans who dont take crap from their government's.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:12 pm

Now there's a man who would be the perfect Prime Minister - absolutely incapable of irony.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Redflag on Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:47 pm

Ivan wrote:Gove wants a military cadet force in every school. I wonder if it will be called Cameron Youth?

I would not put it passed them to try and name it Scameron Youth, is it possible he has a spilt personality ?
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Redflag on Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:57 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:Gove Hits the Rocks
(thisislondon.co.uk)

" ..and then the kindly Secretary of State for Education said: ' Despite all the old people dying of cold, why don't we buy the Queen a new Yacht - because he is a complete......' er.....gosh, sorry girls, I can't say that word..."

Maybe you can't Phil Hornby I can quite easily he is a little piece of SH*** and a little A**E H**E to boot.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by bobby on Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:13 pm

Sorry I'v been away Red, but i've been busy looking for the missing, I,T,R,S,O and L.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Redflag on Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:31 pm

bobby wrote:Sorry I'v been away Red, but i've been busy looking for the missing, I,T,R,S,O and L.

Sorry bobby to give you that trouble I was been polite to a certain extent I had too do it that way to make sure people could put the missing word without much trouble, that is one Tory I can not stand i don't have much time for the rest of them.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Redflag on Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:50 pm

bobby wrote:And what of the poor downtrodden shareholders, if they where to lower their revenues, the poor bastards would only be able to run 1 Bentley and will be reduced to only 6 holidays per year.

I have noticed that Scameron and Osbourne are very fond of there Jollies flying here there and every where on business for Britain thats a Laugh.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Stox 16 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:25 am

Redflag wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:
Redflag wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:
blueturando wrote:Labour

I am sorry, but I found your response to be rather childish and foolish, hence my "reasonable" response back.

Traditional Labour Government's of the past, simply believed in fairness, and these traditional Labour Government's were fair.

Whereas Hitlers National Socialism did indeed put people to work, but Hitler's ethos was that it was the "undesirables" who were at fault for Germany's failures, and this "thinking" was also at the root of Thatcherism.

Let us put it this way Ivanhoe Thatcher nor Cameron give a shit for the normal working man never have and never will, the ones they care about are the ones with Millions or even Billions in the bank and the CEOs at the top of Companies it has been proved the rich have increased there Millions in the bank in the last YEAR while the rest of us have had too loose jobs have pay freezes and some even though there working have to go to FOOD BANKS to keep the WOLF from the door and I think that says it all.

Yes, I agree Redflag, but you just cannot get this into the thick head grass roots Tory supporters any of this.

Never have I heard a truer word Ivan you have hit the nail on the head Precisely , I am on another forum also and trying to give true facts and figures to Tory votes is like P***ING against the wind they can not or will not believe the facts and figures even when there from there Gov't.

I Cannot agree more with facts and figures even when they are there own Red. but then real figures that do not back them are very hard too live with for most Tories Red. you see there own OBR figures are so comprehensively catastrophic on the economy they find them utterly bewildering. that its so much better to refuse to even countenance them in anyway. right now they are almost intellectually handicapped by them. yet its this that will in the end do for them. so far its only the media who is hiding and playing down the Tory economic failure.
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Why are we letting our elderly people die from cold and hunger?

Post by Ivanhoe on Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:47 pm

I am aware that the State pension in Britain is low, far lower that that of Europe. I am aware that our rich and poor divide is getting wider, I am aware that the rich have tax loop holes.

But Britain's overall wealth is immense, so why dont we use more of it to pay our elderly people a better State pension ?.

Forget Government. Why are we abled bodied British allowing this to happen ?
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by blueturando on Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:22 pm

I hope you're doing your bit for your elderly neighbours Ivanhoe

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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:24 pm

blueturando wrote:I hope you're doing your bit for your elderly neighbours Ivanhoe

You are a fine one to judge me bluey. It's your rotten lot in the 80's who started all this pain for our elderly people, and that our country ignores on the whole.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by blueturando on Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:38 pm

No I don't think so....Union strikes in the 70's, with powercuts, a work to rule by the miners and a 3 day week started it. It seems you lot didn't care about freezing pensioners then....only your militant agenda and how much you could scam the tax payer for........Selective memory again Ivanhoe

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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:33 am

Now who wants to remind us what it was that provoked industrial unrest in the 1970s?

"Much of Edward Heath's industrial relations policy was unacceptable to the Trades Union Congress (TUC) leadership. A period of severe industrial unrest began in September 1970. Local authority manual workers wanted a £30 minimum weekly wage. A Committee of Inquiry recommended a 14.5 per cent increase, but the government considered it to be too high. In the winter that followed, an electricity power workers strike caused the Cabinet to declare a national emergency.

Meanwhile, the government pressed ahead with an Industrial Relations Bill under the supervision of Robert Carr. In order to regulate rules and practices in an Industrial Relations Court, it provided for voluntary membership of a Register of Trade Unions and Employers' Associations. Collective agreements would be legally enforceable and employers would be obliged to recognise unions where a majority of workers wanted representation. Various categories of strikes, including those involving inter-union disputes, would lose legal immunity."


http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/cabinetpapers/themes/industrial-unrest.htm
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:39 am

blueturando wrote:No I don't think so....Union strikes in the 70's, with powercuts, a work to rule by the miners and a 3 day week started it. It seems you lot didn't care about freezing pensioners then....only your militant agenda and how much you could scam the tax payer for........Selective memory again Ivanhoe

Bluey.

No, not at all. In the 1970's, State pensions were linked to male average earnings which had been achieved by Labour Government's in the past and kept in place by decent one nation left of centre small "c" Conservative Government's. And it was in 1974, that Harold Wilson's then Labour Government brought in the Social Security Act, I believe it was called, that linked State pensions to earnings, or inflation, whichever the high, thus protecting the value of the State pension without means testing.

Unfortunately and in 1980, your hero Margaret Thatcher broke the State pensions link with male average earnings, and linked the State pension to inflation, and then Thatcher brought in policies to lower inflation, thus the State pension has withered on the vine since, and Thatcher broke the link with earnings because she, Thatcher, did not believe in the role of the State, this breaking of the link had nothing to do with expense, just right wing Tory iedoligy.

As far as the strikes were concerned, these have their roots in Britain's industrial past, when workers were exploiited by bosses, and were fighting for better pay and conditions, and this cultimated in the 70's, and when Thatcher was voted in she destroyed the Unions, whilst bringing in poverty pay legislation, but the Unions had no power because the people were frightened of losing their jobs in Thatcher's profiteering paradise for the rich.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Redflag on Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:07 pm

Ivanhoe wrote:Did you know that this Tory lead coalition Government have cut the pensioners Winter Fuel Payment, they say, in a bid to save money and cut the Deficit. I write this because the BBC TV media have not picked up on it.

For the over 60’s, the coalition have cut £50 off the payment which was £250 a year, it is now £200, and for the over 80’s they have cut the Winter fuel payment by £100, taking it from £400 to £300. And I have to repeat that this cut in the Winter Fuel payment has not been picked up by the media. And both the cuts, and the media indifference is another national scandal.

The coalition have stated this cut is to save money and cut the Deficit. But it is not to save money. It is because the right wing are driven by an ideological hatred of the welfare state. It is an arrogance against the poor, against the old.

The very existence of the former New Labour Government’s Winter Fuel payment paid to 12 million pensioners, means that the basic State pension is not enough to live on, yet more than 30,000 UK pensioners have died of cold related illnesses since 1997.

The Unions have never taken up this issue up on behalf of Britain’s elderly people, and in my view this is because our elderly people have no labour to withdraw to grab the media’s attention.

Britain’s State retirement pension has lost value over the last 30 years, it is fast diminishing. It is way below the EU average of 57 per cent. The State pension in this country is set at just 17 per cent of average earnings.

The recent public sector pension strikes have proved what can be achieved when people are hit personally, now the public and private sectors should get together and support our elderly people for higher State pensions, even though this does not affect worker’s, yet

This and previous right wing Government’s, including New Labour, have managed to divide British workers from the pensioners of this country, and these Government’s have forced people into self interest. It is time this was reversed. But how to achieve this perpetual me, me, me attitude that has spawned from the Thatcher era around 30 years ago, that’s the problem, because this self interest is inherent.

Britain’s elderly people are the backbone of our nation, in longevity terms alone they have contributed more to this country than other age groups. But the attitude from politicians is as if our elderly people haven’t paid a penny.

But their taxes and NI contributions have indeed been contributed, the Welfare State, and the NHS was founded from pensioners taxes and NI contributions when they were working, yet this generation have fundamentally been ignored since the 80’s, 30 years ago.

The richest people in this country had done extremely well since the 80’s, whereas our elderly people have been robbed of their full State pension rights in the name of political dogma.

Where do we as a nation get off allowing this and previous right wing Government’s to treat our elderly people so badly ?

And it’s this time of year when poverty is keenly felt, but not by our politicians, who in my view have not got a clue.

As Christmas eve draws near and New year’s eve follows, the political history of Britain since the 80’s has frankly reduced been to decadence.

Growing a massive rich and poor divide, which was made worse by the New Labour Government.

And now this Tory lead coalition are hitting the poor again and again and all due to ideology.

I am ashamed of my fellow countrymen and woman for being laid back and reserved when it comes to others suffering from these decadent policies administered by our right wing politicians, who do not have to endure them, themselves.

And now I am worried about how many more elderly people are going to suffer untimely deaths through this cold weather ?

If the Tory’s really wanted to cut the Deficit, there are a number of ways they could achieve this, without hurting the
most vulnerable people in this country.

This Deficit cutting is one big excuse for Cameron to attack Britain’s most vulnerable people, and I cannot believe Nick Clegg is supporting this.

Ivanhoe just to let you know the Labour party here in Scotland is giving the over 80s that £100.00 back to keep them warm this winter as the weather here is severe in the winter months maybe you can find out from the the Labour party in your area have the same scheme?
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:31 pm

Redflag wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:Did you know that this Tory lead coalition Government have cut the pensioners Winter Fuel Payment, they say, in a bid to save money and cut the Deficit. I write this because the BBC TV media have not picked up on it.

For the over 60’s, the coalition have cut £50 off the payment which was £250 a year, it is now £200, and for the over 80’s they have cut the Winter fuel payment by £100, taking it from £400 to £300. And I have to repeat that this cut in the Winter Fuel payment has not been picked up by the media. And both the cuts, and the media indifference is another national scandal.

The coalition have stated this cut is to save money and cut the Deficit. But it is not to save money. It is because the right wing are driven by an ideological hatred of the welfare state. It is an arrogance against the poor, against the old.

The very existence of the former New Labour Government’s Winter Fuel payment paid to 12 million pensioners, means that the basic State pension is not enough to live on, yet more than 30,000 UK pensioners have died of cold related illnesses since 1997.

The Unions have never taken up this issue up on behalf of Britain’s elderly people, and in my view this is because our elderly people have no labour to withdraw to grab the media’s attention.

Britain’s State retirement pension has lost value over the last 30 years, it is fast diminishing. It is way below the EU average of 57 per cent. The State pension in this country is set at just 17 per cent of average earnings.

The recent public sector pension strikes have proved what can be achieved when people are hit personally, now the public and private sectors should get together and support our elderly people for higher State pensions, even though this does not affect worker’s, yet

This and previous right wing Government’s, including New Labour, have managed to divide British workers from the pensioners of this country, and these Government’s have forced people into self interest. It is time this was reversed. But how to achieve this perpetual me, me, me attitude that has spawned from the Thatcher era around 30 years ago, that’s the problem, because this self interest is inherent.

Britain’s elderly people are the backbone of our nation, in longevity terms alone they have contributed more to this country than other age groups. But the attitude from politicians is as if our elderly people haven’t paid a penny.

But their taxes and NI contributions have indeed been contributed, the Welfare State, and the NHS was founded from pensioners taxes and NI contributions when they were working, yet this generation have fundamentally been ignored since the 80’s, 30 years ago.

The richest people in this country had done extremely well since the 80’s, whereas our elderly people have been robbed of their full State pension rights in the name of political dogma.

Where do we as a nation get off allowing this and previous right wing Government’s to treat our elderly people so badly ?

And it’s this time of year when poverty is keenly felt, but not by our politicians, who in my view have not got a clue.

As Christmas eve draws near and New year’s eve follows, the political history of Britain since the 80’s has frankly reduced been to decadence.

Growing a massive rich and poor divide, which was made worse by the New Labour Government.

And now this Tory lead coalition are hitting the poor again and again and all due to ideology.

I am ashamed of my fellow countrymen and woman for being laid back and reserved when it comes to others suffering from these decadent policies administered by our right wing politicians, who do not have to endure them, themselves.

And now I am worried about how many more elderly people are going to suffer untimely deaths through this cold weather ?

If the Tory’s really wanted to cut the Deficit, there are a number of ways they could achieve this, without hurting the
most vulnerable people in this country.

This Deficit cutting is one big excuse for Cameron to attack Britain’s most vulnerable people, and I cannot believe Nick Clegg is supporting this.

Ivanhoe just to let you know the Labour party here in Scotland is giving the over 80s that £100.00 back to keep them warm this winter as the weather here is severe in the winter months maybe you can find out from the the Labour party in your area have the same scheme?

Redflag, Now im pleading my ignorance. How can a Labour "party" in Scotland achieve this ?
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by astra on Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:16 pm

SO! - Labour is a "party" in Scotland, - as if it is not "real"?



AH yes of course!, Labour (or anything for that matter) can only be "real" if they are centred in Ingirlland! where of course it is a Party
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Redflag on Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:00 pm

Ivanhoe wrote:
Redflag wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:Did you know that this Tory lead coalition Government have cut the pensioners Winter Fuel Payment, they say, in a bid to save money and cut the Deficit. I write this because the BBC TV media have not picked up on it.

For the over 60’s, the coalition have cut £50 off the payment which was £250 a year, it is now £200, and for the over 80’s they have cut the Winter fuel payment by £100, taking it from £400 to £300. And I have to repeat that this cut in the Winter Fuel payment has not been picked up by the media. And both the cuts, and the media indifference is another national scandal.

The coalition have stated this cut is to save money and cut the Deficit. But it is not to save money. It is because the right wing are driven by an ideological hatred of the welfare state. It is an arrogance against the poor, against the old.

The very existence of the former New Labour Government’s Winter Fuel payment paid to 12 million pensioners, means that the basic State pension is not enough to live on, yet more than 30,000 UK pensioners have died of cold related illnesses since 1997.

The Unions have never taken up this issue up on behalf of Britain’s elderly people, and in my view this is because our elderly people have no labour to withdraw to grab the media’s attention.

Britain’s State retirement pension has lost value over the last 30 years, it is fast diminishing. It is way below the EU average of 57 per cent. The State pension in this country is set at just 17 per cent of average earnings.

The recent public sector pension strikes have proved what can be achieved when people are hit personally, now the public and private sectors should get together and support our elderly people for higher State pensions, even though this does not affect worker’s, yet

This and previous right wing Government’s, including New Labour, have managed to divide British workers from the pensioners of this country, and these Government’s have forced people into self interest. It is time this was reversed. But how to achieve this perpetual me, me, me attitude that has spawned from the Thatcher era around 30 years ago, that’s the problem, because this self interest is inherent.

Britain’s elderly people are the backbone of our nation, in longevity terms alone they have contributed more to this country than other age groups. But the attitude from politicians is as if our elderly people haven’t paid a penny.

But their taxes and NI contributions have indeed been contributed, the Welfare State, and the NHS was founded from pensioners taxes and NI contributions when they were working, yet this generation have fundamentally been ignored since the 80’s, 30 years ago.

The richest people in this country had done extremely well since the 80’s, whereas our elderly people have been robbed of their full State pension rights in the name of political dogma.

Where do we as a nation get off allowing this and previous right wing Government’s to treat our elderly people so badly ?

And it’s this time of year when poverty is keenly felt, but not by our politicians, who in my view have not got a clue.

As Christmas eve draws near and New year’s eve follows, the political history of Britain since the 80’s has frankly reduced been to decadence.

Growing a massive rich and poor divide, which was made worse by the New Labour Government.

And now this Tory lead coalition are hitting the poor again and again and all due to ideology.

I am ashamed of my fellow countrymen and woman for being laid back and reserved when it comes to others suffering from these decadent policies administered by our right wing politicians, who do not have to endure them, themselves.

And now I am worried about how many more elderly people are going to suffer untimely deaths through this cold weather ?

If the Tory’s really wanted to cut the Deficit, there are a number of ways they could achieve this, without hurting the
most vulnerable people in this country.

This Deficit cutting is one big excuse for Cameron to attack Britain’s most vulnerable people, and I cannot believe Nick Clegg is supporting this.

Ivanhoe just to let you know the Labour party here in Scotland is giving the over 80s that £100.00 back to keep them warm this winter as the weather here is severe in the winter months maybe you can find out from the the Labour party in your area have the same scheme?

Redflag, Now im pleading my ignorance. How can a Labour "party" in Scotland achieve this ?

Its because we have a Labour Council in Glasgow for the time being until this May and between the council and the Labour party they have managed to to this for the over 80s I only found out about it at my C.L.P last Friday sorry thats all I know Ivanhoe.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:04 pm

Redflag wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:
Redflag wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:Did you know that this Tory lead coalition Government have cut the pensioners Winter Fuel Payment, they say, in a bid to save money and cut the Deficit. I write this because the BBC TV media have not picked up on it.

For the over 60’s, the coalition have cut £50 off the payment which was £250 a year, it is now £200, and for the over 80’s they have cut the Winter fuel payment by £100, taking it from £400 to £300. And I have to repeat that this cut in the Winter Fuel payment has not been picked up by the media. And both the cuts, and the media indifference is another national scandal.

The coalition have stated this cut is to save money and cut the Deficit. But it is not to save money. It is because the right wing are driven by an ideological hatred of the welfare state. It is an arrogance against the poor, against the old.

The very existence of the former New Labour Government’s Winter Fuel payment paid to 12 million pensioners, means that the basic State pension is not enough to live on, yet more than 30,000 UK pensioners have died of cold related illnesses since 1997.

The Unions have never taken up this issue up on behalf of Britain’s elderly people, and in my view this is because our elderly people have no labour to withdraw to grab the media’s attention.

Britain’s State retirement pension has lost value over the last 30 years, it is fast diminishing. It is way below the EU average of 57 per cent. The State pension in this country is set at just 17 per cent of average earnings.

The recent public sector pension strikes have proved what can be achieved when people are hit personally, now the public and private sectors should get together and support our elderly people for higher State pensions, even though this does not affect worker’s, yet

This and previous right wing Government’s, including New Labour, have managed to divide British workers from the pensioners of this country, and these Government’s have forced people into self interest. It is time this was reversed. But how to achieve this perpetual me, me, me attitude that has spawned from the Thatcher era around 30 years ago, that’s the problem, because this self interest is inherent.

Britain’s elderly people are the backbone of our nation, in longevity terms alone they have contributed more to this country than other age groups. But the attitude from politicians is as if our elderly people haven’t paid a penny.

But their taxes and NI contributions have indeed been contributed, the Welfare State, and the NHS was founded from pensioners taxes and NI contributions when they were working, yet this generation have fundamentally been ignored since the 80’s, 30 years ago.

The richest people in this country had done extremely well since the 80’s, whereas our elderly people have been robbed of their full State pension rights in the name of political dogma.

Where do we as a nation get off allowing this and previous right wing Government’s to treat our elderly people so badly ?

And it’s this time of year when poverty is keenly felt, but not by our politicians, who in my view have not got a clue.

As Christmas eve draws near and New year’s eve follows, the political history of Britain since the 80’s has frankly reduced been to decadence.

Growing a massive rich and poor divide, which was made worse by the New Labour Government.

And now this Tory lead coalition are hitting the poor again and again and all due to ideology.

I am ashamed of my fellow countrymen and woman for being laid back and reserved when it comes to others suffering from these decadent policies administered by our right wing politicians, who do not have to endure them, themselves.

And now I am worried about how many more elderly people are going to suffer untimely deaths through this cold weather ?

If the Tory’s really wanted to cut the Deficit, there are a number of ways they could achieve this, without hurting the
most vulnerable people in this country.

This Deficit cutting is one big excuse for Cameron to attack Britain’s most vulnerable people, and I cannot believe Nick Clegg is supporting this.

Ivanhoe just to let you know the Labour party here in Scotland is giving the over 80s that £100.00 back to keep them warm this winter as the weather here is severe in the winter months maybe you can find out from the the Labour party in your area have the same scheme?

Redflag, Now im pleading my ignorance. How can a Labour "party" in Scotland achieve this ?

Its because we have a Labour Council in Glasgow for the time being until this May and between the council and the Labour party they have managed to to this for the over 80s I only found out about it at my C.L.P last Friday sorry thats all I know Ivanhoe.

They must have used Labour party funding then ?
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by astra on Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:03 pm

http://www.gcvs.org.uk/news_and_information/1627_glasgows_elderly_citizens_to_receive_100_fuel_poverty_payment


"Glasgow's Elderly Citizens to Receive £100 Fuel Poverty Payment
Glasgow City Council has launched a new initiative to tackle fuel poverty in the city. 11,000"

AND -


http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/News/Warm+Glasgow+extended.htm

"Warm Glasgow will tap into savings and income generated by future sustainability projects to ensure that affordable warmth becomes a reality for all our citizens.”
"The Sustainable Glasgow partnership includes Glasgow City Council, the University of Strathclyde, Clyde Gateway, Strathclyde Partnership for Transport, Glasgow Housing Association, Scottish Enterprise, Greater Glasgow and Clyde Health Board, IBM, BT, Honeywell, Siemens, ScottishPower, SSE, Scottish Water and the City of Glasgow College.
Through this ambitious city strategy, Glasgow has been positioned as a new centre of excellence in renewable-energy research and industry. Hundreds of new green jobs have been created in Glasgow by industry leaders including SSE, Mitsubishi and Iberdrola, the Spanish firm which owns ScottishPower."


Let us see other Cities follow this lead!

My home town -Perth City council now recycles 85% of household waste!

Beat that!

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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:20 pm

astra wrote:http://www.gcvs.org.uk/news_and_information/1627_glasgows_elderly_citizens_to_receive_100_fuel_poverty_payment


"Glasgow's Elderly Citizens to Receive £100 Fuel Poverty Payment
Glasgow City Council has launched a new initiative to tackle fuel poverty in the city. 11,000"

AND -


http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/News/Warm+Glasgow+extended.htm

"Warm Glasgow will tap into savings and income generated by future sustainability projects to ensure that affordable warmth becomes a reality for all our citizens.”
"The Sustainable Glasgow partnership includes Glasgow City Council, the University of Strathclyde, Clyde Gateway, Strathclyde Partnership for Transport, Glasgow Housing Association, Scottish Enterprise, Greater Glasgow and Clyde Health Board, IBM, BT, Honeywell, Siemens, ScottishPower, SSE, Scottish Water and the City of Glasgow College.
Through this ambitious city strategy, Glasgow has been positioned as a new centre of excellence in renewable-energy research and industry. Hundreds of new green jobs have been created in Glasgow by industry leaders including SSE, Mitsubishi and Iberdrola, the Spanish firm which owns ScottishPower."


Let us see other Cities follow this lead!

My home town -Perth City council now recycles 85% of household waste!

Beat that!


I've just been to the site. It's another bloody means test for the elderly. How I hate this bloody country.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Redflag on Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:18 pm

astra wrote:http://www.gcvs.org.uk/news_and_information/1627_glasgows_elderly_citizens_to_receive_100_fuel_poverty_payment


"Glasgow's Elderly Citizens to Receive £100 Fuel Poverty Payment
Glasgow City Council has launched a new initiative to tackle fuel poverty in the city. 11,000"

AND -


http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/News/Warm+Glasgow+extended.htm

"Warm Glasgow will tap into savings and income generated by future sustainability projects to ensure that affordable warmth becomes a reality for all our citizens.”
"The Sustainable Glasgow partnership includes Glasgow City Council, the University of Strathclyde, Clyde Gateway, Strathclyde Partnership for Transport, Glasgow Housing Association, Scottish Enterprise, Greater Glasgow and Clyde Health Board, IBM, BT, Honeywell, Siemens, ScottishPower, SSE, Scottish Water and the City of Glasgow College.
Through this ambitious city strategy, Glasgow has been positioned as a new centre of excellence in renewable-energy research and industry. Hundreds of new green jobs have been created in Glasgow by industry leaders including SSE, Mitsubishi and Iberdrola, the Spanish firm which owns ScottishPower."


Let us see other Cities follow this lead!

My home town -Perth City council now recycles 85% of household waste!

Beat that!


Thank you astra for clearing that up for me and others on this forum, as I said it was the chair in my CLP that informed me of this scheme so thank you astra.
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Please sign this petition to try and help the elderly

Post by Ivanhoe on Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:35 pm

Cold kills 180 British pensioners a day during winter

Please go to this link and sign this petition on the Government’s web site.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/19311

All elderly people should receive residential care free, via the State, and a much higher basic State pension free of means testing

Responsible department: Department for Work and Pensions

The Government must fund elderly people's rights to free residential Care paid for by the State because our elderly people have paid into the system all their working lives, and Government must also pay all pensioners now and in the future, a much higher basic state pension by restoring the National Insurance Act born of a Labour Government in 1974 which linked increases in the State pension to male average earnings, or The Retail Price Index ( RPI), whichever the greater. In 1975, the then Labour Government passed the "Social Security Act", introducing a State Earnings Related Pensions Scheme, this was considered in the pensions industry, the most cost effective scheme ever.
Please sign this petition.



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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:18 pm

The NHS provides treatment, which includes accommodation where necessary, for the elderly when they are sick. Healthy elderly have no claim on the NHS - why should they?

Those who demand a Universal increase in the old-age pension should have some figures available to support those demands. (Clue: It's a lot of £Billions).



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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:47 pm

oftenwrong wrote:The NHS provides treatment, which includes accommodation where necessary, for the elderly when they are sick. Healthy elderly have no claim on the NHS - why should they?

Those who demand a Universal increase in the old-age pension should have some figures available to support those demands. (Clue: It's a lot of £Billions).




This is a moral issue, not a question of economics. Mind you if we decided to fight another foreign war to get their oil, morality and economics would go out the window, because what Britain wants, Britain gets, by hook or by crook.

It's a tragedy that our elderly dont figure into the equation.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:27 pm

I understand perfectly that many people would like to have more money. But if you think that's a moral issue, "not a question of economics", you need to specify the origin of that extra money.

Who pays? That's the question that needs to be answered before you can move on to "who should benefit?"

Then, the philosophical might pose the question, "Does money always bring happiness?"
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:42 pm

oftenwrong wrote:I understand perfectly that many people would like to have more money. But if you think that's a moral issue, "not a question of economics", you need to specify the origin of that extra money.

Who pays? That's the question that needs to be answered before you can move on to "who should benefit?"

Then, the philosophical might pose the question, "Does money always bring happiness?"

You keep carring that board fella, and you'lle do fine.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

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