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Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

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Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

Did you know that this Tory lead coalition Government have cut the pensioners Winter Fuel Payment, they say, in a bid to save money and cut the Deficit. I write this because the BBC TV media have not picked up on it.

For the over 60’s, the coalition have cut £50 off the payment which was £250 a year, it is now £200, and for the over 80’s they have cut the Winter fuel payment by £100, taking it from £400 to £300. And I have to repeat that this cut in the Winter Fuel payment has not been picked up by the media. And both the cuts, and the media indifference is another national scandal.

The coalition have stated this cut is to save money and cut the Deficit. But it is not to save money. It is because the right wing are driven by an ideological hatred of the welfare state. It is an arrogance against the poor, against the old.

The very existence of the former New Labour Government’s Winter Fuel payment paid to 12 million pensioners, means that the basic State pension is not enough to live on, yet more than 30,000 UK pensioners have died of cold related illnesses since 1997.

The Unions have never taken up this issue up on behalf of Britain’s elderly people, and in my view this is because our elderly people have no labour to withdraw to grab the media’s attention.

Britain’s State retirement pension has lost value over the last 30 years, it is fast diminishing. It is way below the EU average of 57 per cent. The State pension in this country is set at just 17 per cent of average earnings.

The recent public sector pension strikes have proved what can be achieved when people are hit personally, now the public and private sectors should get together and support our elderly people for higher State pensions, even though this does not affect worker’s, yet

This and previous right wing Government’s, including New Labour, have managed to divide British workers from the pensioners of this country, and these Government’s have forced people into self interest. It is time this was reversed. But how to achieve this perpetual me, me, me attitude that has spawned from the Thatcher era around 30 years ago, that’s the problem, because this self interest is inherent.

Britain’s elderly people are the backbone of our nation, in longevity terms alone they have contributed more to this country than other age groups. But the attitude from politicians is as if our elderly people haven’t paid a penny.

But their taxes and NI contributions have indeed been contributed, the Welfare State, and the NHS was founded from pensioners taxes and NI contributions when they were working, yet this generation have fundamentally been ignored since the 80’s, 30 years ago.

The richest people in this country had done extremely well since the 80’s, whereas our elderly people have been robbed of their full State pension rights in the name of political dogma.

Where do we as a nation get off allowing this and previous right wing Government’s to treat our elderly people so badly ?

And it’s this time of year when poverty is keenly felt, but not by our politicians, who in my view have not got a clue.

As Christmas eve draws near and New year’s eve follows, the political history of Britain since the 80’s has frankly reduced been to decadence.

Growing a massive rich and poor divide, which was made worse by the New Labour Government.

And now this Tory lead coalition are hitting the poor again and again and all due to ideology.

I am ashamed of my fellow countrymen and woman for being laid back and reserved when it comes to others suffering from these decadent policies administered by our right wing politicians, who do not have to endure them, themselves.

And now I am worried about how many more elderly people are going to suffer untimely deaths through this cold weather ?

If the Tory’s really wanted to cut the Deficit, there are a number of ways they could achieve this, without hurting the
most vulnerable people in this country.

This Deficit cutting is one big excuse for Cameron to attack Britain’s most vulnerable people, and I cannot believe Nick Clegg is supporting this.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:42 pm

oftenwrong wrote:I understand perfectly that many people would like to have more money. But if you think that's a moral issue, "not a question of economics", you need to specify the origin of that extra money.

Who pays? That's the question that needs to be answered before you can move on to "who should benefit?"

Then, the philosophical might pose the question, "Does money always bring happiness?"

You keep carring that board fella, and you'lle do fine.

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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Phil Hornby on Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:46 pm

Instructions for Use

1. Find lion's mouth and insert head....
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Elderly people

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:47 pm

Charity begins at Home.

Old English saying.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:43 am

Ivanhoe wrote:Cold kills 180 British pensioners a day during winter

Please go to this link and sign this petition on the Government’s web site.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/19311

All elderly people should receive residential care free, via the State, and a much higher basic State pension free of means testing

Responsible department: Department for Work and Pensions

The Government must fund elderly people's rights to free residential Care paid for by the State because our elderly people have paid into the system all their working lives, and Government must also pay all pensioners now and in the future, a much higher basic state pension by restoring the National Insurance Act born of a Labour Government in 1974 which linked increases in the State pension to male average earnings, or The Retail Price Index ( RPI), whichever the greater. In 1975, the then Labour Government passed the "Social Security Act", introducing a State Earnings Related Pensions Scheme, this was considered in the pensions industry, the most cost effective scheme ever.
Please sign this petition.


"The Government must fund elderly people's rights to free residential Care paid for by the State because our elderly people have paid into the system all their working lives, and Government must also pay all pensioners now and in the future, a much higher basic state pension...." is a proposition doomed to failure because "The Government" has no money.

Replace the words "The Government" with "The Taxpayer" and the meaning of this posting is that everyone else must contribute to paying more to Pensioners.

What does everyone else think of that proposition?
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:14 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:Cold kills 180 British pensioners a day during winter

Please go to this link and sign this petition on the Government’s web site.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/19311

All elderly people should receive residential care free, via the State, and a much higher basic State pension free of means testing

Responsible department: Department for Work and Pensions

The Government must fund elderly people's rights to free residential Care paid for by the State because our elderly people have paid into the system all their working lives, and Government must also pay all pensioners now and in the future, a much higher basic state pension by restoring the National Insurance Act born of a Labour Government in 1974 which linked increases in the State pension to male average earnings, or The Retail Price Index ( RPI), whichever the greater. In 1975, the then Labour Government passed the "Social Security Act", introducing a State Earnings Related Pensions Scheme, this was considered in the pensions industry, the most cost effective scheme ever.
Please sign this petition.


"The Government must fund elderly people's rights to free residential Care paid for by the State because our elderly people have paid into the system all their working lives, and Government must also pay all pensioners now and in the future, a much higher basic state pension...." is a proposition doomed to failure because "The Government" has no money.

Replace the words "The Government" with "The Taxpayer" and the meaning of this posting is that everyone else must contribute to paying more to Pensioners.

What does everyone else think of that proposition?

""Replace the words "The Government" with "The Taxpayer" and the meaning of this posting is that everyone else must contribute to paying more to Pensioners"".

How astute of you. Well done.
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Fuel poverty deaths are outrageous

Post by Scarecrow on Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:29 pm

The number of people dying as a result of fuel poverty is three times higher than government estimates suggest, according to new academic research. Fuel poverty is defined as when someone needs to spend 10 per cent or more on heating their home. There will by 9.1m households living in fuel poverty by 2016.The energy companies are driving people into fuel poverty, the Chinese govt provides heat to all residential buildings during the freezing months. This helps prevent Chinese people from freezing to death.I used think that the job of an elected govt was to provide essential services - power - clean water and clean air fit to breathe. The British govt has turned its back on many of those services over to the private sector whose only mission is to make money - satisfy their investors and provide a healthy salary to their corporate officers- Period.
Recently I read this headline - Electric and Gas Companies enjoyed record profits and now I read his headline. This clearly illustrates the failure of the so called free market system- where private utility companies can claim massive profits while people freeze to death in their homes.
Its time for the British people to reclaim their power and water resources that have been farmed for profit.

We are regressing back into a victorian have and have not society , the free market cares nothing for the destitute and the lame in society.



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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:17 pm



Now, next time there is a General Election, we are NOT going to laze around watching the Tories take advantage of our apathy, ARE WE, boys and girls??
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by trevorw2539 on Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:27 pm

oftenwrong wrote:

Now, next time there is a General Election, we are NOT going to laze around watching the Tories take advantage of our apathy, ARE WE, boys and girls??


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oops o
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Phil Hornby on Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:01 am

oftenwrong wrote:

Now, next time there is a General Election, we are NOT going to laze around watching the Tories take advantage of our apathy, ARE WE, boys and girls??

I've already signed up ( under a slightly assumed name - Marmaduke Voatwheedler) with my local Conservative Party to assist with door-to-door canvassing and generally explaining the rationale for the Party's policies.

I am hoping that my efforts, and style of communication, will have a marked effect on the Tory vote locally... Twisted Evil
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:04 pm

You might also offer to convey Tory voters to the Polling Station. In a tumbril.
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Winter pensioner deaths reached thirteen an hour

Post by Ivanhoe on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:07 pm

Last winter over 36,700 pensioners in the UK died of cold-related illnesses, a death rate of 13 pensioners each hour in what was a very harsh winter.
Last winter over 36,700 pensioners in the UK died of cold-related illnesses, a death rate of 13 pensioners each hour in what was a very harsh winter. In the spending review Chancellor George Osborne did not budget to keep up the last Government’s top- up for the universal winter fuel allowance, effectively reducing the annual payments from £250 (£125 each if you are a couple living together) to £200 for people 60 and over, and from £400 to £300 for pensioners 80 and over. Currently winter fuel allowances cost the tax payer £2.7bn each year.

In 2009 the payments went to 12.68 million people in 9.17 million households; 42 per cent received the £125 allowance. Parliamentary questions after the review revealed that the allowance is also available to 65,000 ex-pats living across Europe, and 450,000 higher rate tax payers, including those paying 50 per cent income tax). Two thirds of the House of Lords members received winter fuel allowances last year.

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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Redflag on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:31 pm

Ivanhoe wrote:Last winter over 36,700 pensioners in the UK died of cold-related illnesses, a death rate of 13 pensioners each hour in what was a very harsh winter.
Last winter over 36,700 pensioners in the UK died of cold-related illnesses, a death rate of 13 pensioners each hour in what was a very harsh winter. In the spending review Chancellor George Osborne did not budget to keep up the last Government’s top- up for the universal winter fuel allowance, effectively reducing the annual payments from £250 (£125 each if you are a couple living together) to £200 for people 60 and over, and from £400 to £300 for pensioners 80 and over. Currently winter fuel allowances cost the tax payer £2.7bn each year.

In 2009 the payments went to 12.68 million people in 9.17 million households; 42 per cent received the £125 allowance. Parliamentary questions after the review revealed that the allowance is also available to 65,000 ex-pats living across Europe, and 450,000 higher rate tax payers, including those paying 50 per cent income tax). Two thirds of the House of Lords members received winter fuel allowances last year.


I take it from your post Ivanhoe the backstuds took it and used it to buy themselves another bottle of Champers, the house of Lords there is around 750 of them so two thirds of that is FAR TOO MANY great post Ivanhoe once again.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by blueturando on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:09 pm

Last winter over 36,700 pensioners in the UK died of cold-related illnesses, a death rate of 13 pensioners each hour in what was a very harsh winter.

Where did this figure come from Ivanhoe? Is there a link?

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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:39 pm

blueturando wrote:
Last winter over 36,700 pensioners in the UK died of cold-related illnesses, a death rate of 13 pensioners each hour in what was a very harsh winter.

Where did this figure come from Ivanhoe? Is there a link?

Bluey, Here's your link,

http://www.open.ac.uk/platform/blogs/society-matters/winter-pensioner-deaths-reached-thirteen-hour

This is all down to Thatcher.

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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by boatlady on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:51 pm

respectable source
This is horrifying - rarely makes the news because pensioners, by and large, are a nice bunch of folks who don't want to make a fuss and will stay quietly at home and die rather than make waves.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by blueturando on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:53 pm

This is all down to Thatcher

Of course it is...How could I have been so stupid not to guess that??!! Sleep

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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by skwalker1964 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:17 pm

oftenwrong wrote:You might also offer to convey Tory voters to the Polling Station. In a tumbril.

One of my favourite by-election stories:

A Labour member was near a voting station conducting an informal exit poll when a local Tory arrived, chauffering an old lady to cast her vote.

As she exited, she whispered to the Labour man:

"I voted for your lot, pet - but this lot have nicer cars!"
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:27 pm

blueturando wrote:
This is all down to Thatcher

Of course it is...How could I have been so stupid not to guess that??!! Sleep

This has been onging since Thatcher broke the link that kept state pensions increasing with male average earnings in 1980 bluey, or didnt you know what Thatcher did ?
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:30 pm

Winter pensioner deaths reached thirteen an hour in the years 2009, to 2010.

Last winter over 36,700 pensioners in the UK died of cold-related illnesses, a death rate of 13 pensioners each hour in what was a very harsh winter.
Last winter over 36,700 pensioners in the UK died of cold-related illnesses, a death rate of 13 pensioners each hour in what was a very harsh winter. In the spending review Chancellor George Osborne did not budget to keep up the last Government’s top- up for the universal winter fuel allowance, effectively reducing the annual payments from £250 (£125 each if you are a couple living together) to £200 for people 60 and over, and from £400 to £300 for pensioners 80 and over. Currently winter fuel allowances cost the tax payer £2.7bn each year.

In 2009 the payments went to 12.68 million people in 9.17 million households; 42 per cent received the £125 allowance. Parliamentary questions after the review revealed that the allowance is also available to 65,000 ex-pats living across Europe, and 450,000 higher rate tax payers, including those paying 50 per cent income tax). Two thirds of the House of Lords members received winter fuel allowances last year.

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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:10 pm

The Great Unwashed are entitled to complain while the Tory Toffs dismantle a Welfare State decreed by the majority, but there is little logic involved in paying benefits to those who clearly have no need of them. In hard times it's obvious that whatever money is available should be directed precisely toward the most needy.

The principal stumbling-block appears to be the cost of bureaucracy in separating the Deserving Poor from the Undeserving ditto. It's a similar problem in tax-collecting, which can have a negative return on the effort put in to ensure "fairness".

Will we ever trust computers to make such decisions?

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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Ivanhoe on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:19 pm

Welcome to the workhouse principle, oftenwrong.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Phil Hornby on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:29 pm

Those who don't qualify for any assistance with fuel costs have to rely totally upon their own resources - for example, by making hard physical efforts in establishing an adequate stock of logs with which to build and sustain a suitable fire on Winter evenings.

It was for this reason that Mrs Hornby was the lucky recipient of a sturdy saw for Christmas...
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:54 pm

General Winter always wins battles of survival.
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There is a new petition link below that reads with the heading immediately below.

Post by Ivanhoe on Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:56 am

HOW MANY WORLD WAR TWO PENSIONERS ARE GOING TO DIE OF COLD AND/OR STARVATION THIS WINTER BECAUSE THEIR STATE PENSION ISNT ENOUGH TO LIVE ON?
 
Winter deaths claim 200 pensioners every day.
 
And millions of elderly people in Britain today are living in poverty, having to choose between eating, and heating their homes because the UK's State pension is so low.
 
1 in 5 from 12 million pensioners live in poverty in this country, having to choose between heating their homes and buying food, there are also millions of pensioners who suffer untimely deaths each winter because of hypothermia related illness, due to the above reasons. Winter deaths claim 200 pensioners every day.
 
The basic state pension for single pensioners is just £107 . 45 a week, and this is following a 30, 40, and 50 year working life contributing to the system both taxes and NI contribution which were mandatory
 
The State pension used to increase with British male average earnings, or inflation whichever the higher to protect its value, prior to 1979, but when Thatcher took office in 1980 she broke to state pensions link with male average earnings, and the state pension has decreased in value ever since, being linked to inflation, and New Labour under Blair and Brown continued Thatcher's pension policy.
 
All pensioners have been denied a decent state pension for over 30 years.
 
The facts are means testing pensioners is costing 15 to 20 times more of tax payers money than the restoration of the earnings link, and as more and more people reach retirement age means testing costs will spiral, and state pension costs will dwindle.
 
The low state pension in this country has nothing to do with cost, it is ideologically right wing dogma that began in the 80's.
 
Pension Credit is a means test, and pensioners should not have to endure means testing for more money.
 
The basic state pension should be increased universally. And the rich should pay higher income tax to balance out what they receive in a higher State pension. This is about re-distribution of wealth, and fairness.
 
Suffice to say that Margaret Thatcher broke the link that kept the state pensions increasing with male average earnings in 1980, almost 30 years ago, and linked the state pension to inflation, that's when the state pension level began to dwindle in value, and means testing became the norm.
 
Means testing pensioners is not the answer to providing our elderly people with decent living standards without means testing, particularly as they have spent a 30, 40, and 50 year working life on lower wages than today, paying into the system both taxes and NI contributions.
 
A decent state pension is their "right".
 
In future years, today's young people who will not have been able to save for a private pension due to long term unemployment,/ and/or low wages, and there for will be in the same, if not worse destitution as their parents and grandparents are in today.
 
What is needed to reverse Government policy since the 80's, is a a mass consolidation of 60 million British people to stand and be counted on behalf of 12 million pensioners for a decent increase in the basic State pension, re- linked to male average earnings as it was under traditional Labour in the 70’s.
 
EU Country State Pension Pay Avg Men & Woman. UK second from the bottom.
Spain £26,630 £23,491 113% 65 65
Germany £26,366 £29,366 90% 65 65
France £15,811 £29,817 53% 60 60
N’lands £10,981 £35,627 31% 65 65
Denmark £11,381 £45,661 25% 65 65
Ireland £10,415 £41,803 25% 65 65
UK £7,488 £31,413 24% 65 62
Greece £3,756 £17,772 21% 65 6
Remember UK pensioners State pension is based on 30,40, and 50 years of paying NI contributions when working. I don’t think pensioners in the EU have to work for as many years for theirs, but I could be wrong.
Please go to both my petitions to help the elderly. Sign both and pass on, also ask your friends to do the same.
 
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/56676
 
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/51449
 
 
Thank you
Ivanhoe
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:49 pm




aide memoire Scarecrow on Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:29 pm
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:31 pm

Ivanhoe wrote:Did you know that this Tory lead coalition Government have cut the pensioners Winter Fuel Payment, they say, in a bid to save money and cut the Deficit.  I write this because the BBC TV media have not picked up on it.

For the over 60’s, the coalition have cut £50 off the payment which was £250 a year, it is now £200, and for the over 80’s they have cut the Winter fuel payment by £100, taking it from £400 to £300.  And I have to repeat that this cut in the Winter Fuel payment has not been picked up by the media.  And both the cuts, and the media indifference is another national scandal.

Interestingly and in stark contrast the reduced profits of British Gas made national news, though just why any one should experience any angst that a private company's profits  have gone down from x billion to y billion £'s I don't know, but apparently it's more newsworthy than the deaths of pensioners who can't afford to heat their homes in the winter because of cutbacks.

I look forward to gas prices being raised and the justification cited being reduced profits, and all before next winter though.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:27 pm

Oops! Nearly missed that, DSC. I usually scroll past the God-botherers.

Part of the problem is that it is not Pensioners who are shareholders in British public utility companies, but German, French, American and Australian "Investors" etcetera, etcetera, who are sanguine about where the company's profits are made.

Not sure whether anything can be done about that, post-Thatcher.


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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:01 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Oops! Nearly missed that, DSC.  I usually scroll past the God-botherers.  

Part of the problem is that it is not Pensioners who are shareholders in British public utility companies, but German, French, American and Australian "Investors" etcetera, etcetera, who are sanguine about where the company's profits are made.

Not sure whether anything can be done about that, post-Thatcher.


 

Well I'd expect the BBC to live up to it's remit here and show some impartiality, but I suspect I'm being unrealistic again.

Another wonderful legacy of the Thatcher years, the present that just keeps on giving, they also eviscerated most of our manufacturing base, and sold off the rest. Now of course the Tories are convinced the only way to control the budget is to save money through cuts on the budget by proven tactics from the Victorian era, by either starving to death the excess population, or letting them slowly freeze in winter, or give them no access to proper medical care as they squeeze the NHS into a sub-standard shadow of it's previous self.

Yet paradoxically their collective angst at the introduction of a 50p tax threshold was a sight to behold. Also the best answer DC seems to have about his tax avoiding party contributors is "well some of yours are at it as well". All very disheartening.
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Re: Winter Fuel Payment was cut and we let elderly people die from cold and hunger. How can anyone vote Tory?

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