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If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

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If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by Stox 16 on Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:48 am

First topic message reminder :

If we was to believe our Tories and there friends, as they keep telling us that they have to clear up the Labour parties mess? if this is SO... How come they lost the 1997 GE and Failed to win the last GE?... As they keep telling us all... that economy was do very good in 1997? So How come they did not sweep back into office? if this is right

also the Tory party and there Friends in the media keep saying Last Government was so very bad, How come the Tory Party and its friends could not win a majority at the last election?..... as this was after spending some £20 million pounds to get there message over too us all?

Do you happen too think that the UK people could see that they were totally bankrupt? but just need to blame something or someone for the world banking crisis?
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by blueturando on Fri May 11, 2012 1:42 pm

I think you're going wrong somewhere there. You seem a little confused.....maybe you should start supporting the BNP and leave the Labour party alone....they don't need people with your opinions..

Chip.......I feel you are being a bit harsh here. Some very valid points were made in Bobby's post and you have just proved what I said earlier....We cannot seem to have a grown up discussion on this issue without being labelled a racist, unless you tow the PC line

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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by sickchip on Fri May 11, 2012 1:44 pm

A quote from bobby's post:

I am not Racist, but [quote]

Classic!

astra agrees with every word of bobby's post.

Another racist homophobe. Oh dear!
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by blueturando on Fri May 11, 2012 1:46 pm

Hello blue, does this mean we are friends again?

Lol Bobby.....Yes of course!!! I always try to be friends with everybody. My best mate is a Leftie as you can get...a real union man from Salford. As you can imagine we have some very heated debates and discussions, but always remain friends at the end of the day.

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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by sickchip on Fri May 11, 2012 1:49 pm

bobby wrote:sickchip, you are a dickhead, before you pass judgement on me read my post properly. If I say I am not a racist I am not a racist, or do you normaly go round calling a person you don't know a liar.

What a load of bollocks you write sickchip, written by a total pratt.

Kindly stop personally insulting me or you will be reported to the moderators.

You posted a racist and homophobic post......that goes against the forums rules. I suggest you go and sit down, have a word with yourself, then come back and explain/apologise for your inappropriate comments.
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by jackthelad on Fri May 11, 2012 2:05 pm

The term "Caucasian race" was coined by the German philosopher Christoph Meiners in his The Outline of History of Mankind (1785).[4] In Meiners' unique racial classification, there were only two racial divisions (Racen): Caucasians ("white and beautiful") and Mongolians ("brown and ugly"). These terms were used as a collective representative of what Meiners personally regarded as good looking and far less attractive, based solely on the appearance of the skin of the face, for example the Germans and the Tartars he considered Caucasian, and the best looking, while Jews, Slavs and Native Americans as Mongolian, and ugly in the face.[5]

This racial classification did not receive much support. However, in 1795, a colleague of Meiners from the University of Göttingen, Blumenbach, one of the earliest anthropologists, adopted the term Varietas Caucasia ("Caucasian Variety"), for a new major hypothetical racial division.[6] Blumenbach named it after the Caucasian peoples (from the Southern Caucasus region), whom he considered to be the archetype for the grouping.[7][8] Unlike Meiners, Blumenbach based his classification of the Caucasian race primarily on craniology after coming to realise that there was more to racial difference than skin pigmentation

African American means the person is Black, Caucasion American means they are White, why we should have to hide behind words that mean want we want to say beggars belief, Bobby is no racist, he is just calling things as he sees it, a spade is spade, and so forth and so on.
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by astra on Fri May 11, 2012 2:05 pm

astra agrees with every word of bobby's post.

Another racist homophobe

Kindly stop personally insulting me or you will be reported to the moderators. Smile

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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by sickchip on Fri May 11, 2012 2:21 pm

Words have historical context and a seemingly innocent word can become used as an insult; and more to the point is recognised as an insult when used/heard. Therefore the meaning of a word changes.

It's all very well bobby claiming he is not racist, but he goes on to bemoan immigration and black people running to the race relations board every 5mins. What was the point of his opening 'joke' - everyone should have one . Is that an effort at levity. Is bobby's racism comfortable, harmless, and cosy enough to be deemed acceptable?

He admits to being a 'tad' homophobic. He should also stand up and say he's a 'tad' racist too.......even if he imagines he's not because he knows some black people.

Is being a 'tad' homophobic, or a 'tad' racist, ok. After all what harm can a teensy weensy bit of homophobia, or racism, do, eh?
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by blueturando on Fri May 11, 2012 2:26 pm

Does anyone feel I should start a new thread on this issue, or is it a subject off limits for serious discussion without ending up in chaos or personal insults?

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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by astra on Fri May 11, 2012 2:27 pm

The GSD that is my avatar, loves all around him, grandaughters hang off his ears tail and climb on his back - he loves it all! We take him to markets and towns we are visiting and everywhere he comes up well behaved trumps.


He is a 'tad' sensitive when it comes to felines - 'cats' is a banned word in the house, as 'black' paint or 'coloured' pen is on here!


SO! critisise my dog!
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by astra on Fri May 11, 2012 2:29 pm

Blue, the thread would go up in smoke in minutes, it was tried on the MSN boards



AND YES!!

'Chip had a field day on that one!
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by sickchip on Fri May 11, 2012 2:31 pm

blue,

A seperate thread on this would be good....as long as it doesn't descend into chaos and abuse. Constructive debate is welcome.

BTW I don't see myself as part of the PC brigade.
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by astra on Fri May 11, 2012 2:41 pm

H'mmmmmmmmm
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by Ivan on Fri May 11, 2012 2:44 pm

Two years ago today, Cameron entered Downing Street by courtesy of Nick Clegg, and the nightmare began. It’s understandable if that puts some of us in a bad mood, but it’s not an excuse for all this unpleasantness.

I hope nobody wants to go running to teacher, but if you must, please note that Mel is responsible for this board and Shirina is the global moderator. Nothing to do with me, guv!
No

It should be possible to talk about both homosexuality and race, but they’re very sensitive subjects and what you’re trying to say can easily be misunderstood. Your own sexual preferences are irrelevant – do you believe in equal rights for all and oppose discrimination? As to terminology, ‘straight’ is a pleasant word, suggesting regular and honest. It’s not fair to retaliate with ‘bent’, a word which conjures up pictures of dishonesty and even criminality.

Those who see immigration as ‘bad’ need to ask themselves – do I really just see non-white immigrants as a ‘problem’? The UK has had waves of settlers since it was first inhabited, but until fifty years ago nearly all of them were white. (There were black people in this country in Tudor times, but not on any great scale, and not many people would have been aware of them.) There is a case for arguing that 63 million is enough people in the UK, which I believe has overtaken Belgium and the Netherlands to become the most densely populated country in Europe, but there’s also a case for saying that we need young immigrants to work and have children who can grow up and pay tax to support our ageing population. However, we need a government to create the work for them to do, rather than destroy jobs, which brings me neatly back to what happened two years ago today.

Please stop fighting. I often get PMs telling me what a pleasant and friendly forum this is compared to some others. We’ve already got a thread which touches on homophobia on the religion board, and it’s cost us one member, and maybe two. We don't need another thread on the same subject.
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by astra on Fri May 11, 2012 3:03 pm

Ivan, it seems that education has turned to indoctrination.

I gave my grandaughters the spiel on a certain kind of jam - made in Scotland, and bearing the name of a Scottish Clan - the Graveyard is at Struan just north of Pitlochry.

The question I had to answer was why the trade mark was of, shall we say, Al Johlson type character, and why would a company put such a derogatory picture and badge as their logo.

(The chief of the clan - on the Jacobite side, was chased out of Britain, set up a plantation, had no children by his wife but had one boy by a slave girl. common practice then! When the chief died, the boy was of an age, and when he was declared chief, a company was setting up a jam factory, and in deference to the boy, they used him as a logo, all seen to be in perfectly good taste (thank you MR Everette) and harmless. Then Carole Thatcher used the common word for the logo and was instantly SACKED by the EVER PC BBC! (bunch of clowns!))

The company still has repercussions from those who will not listen to history - want to change history.


Tonight for dinner, one is partaking of -

Braine's FAGGOTS
then
SPOTTED DICK with Custard! Very Happy
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by astra on Fri May 11, 2012 3:07 pm

On the immigration thing?


If the balloon went up, and conscription were returned to statute, how many of Blair's and Brown's and Claire Short's little darlings would answer the call?


Last edited by astra on Fri May 11, 2012 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by astra on Fri May 11, 2012 3:17 pm

Back to the thread.


The TORIES do not listen to the public.

FAR FAR more important for the Tory is his agenda, which MUST be followed through to the bitter end, no matter how many souls are 'persuaded' into the gutter, where they can be willfully and openly despised by him at will!

They are quite content ruining the sweetie shop for any other customer, as long as they enjoy themselves NOW

Show me one good piece of Tory legislation which has lasted through more than 5 years. For myself, I cannot think of ONE good Tory idea in the last 59 years!

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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by Ivan on Fri May 11, 2012 3:28 pm

astra. Carol Thatcher referred to tennis player Jo-Wilfried Tsonga as “that froggy golliwog guy”. When Jo Brand challenged her, Thatcher said: "Yes, well, he's half-black.” Gratuitous racism, pure and simple.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

In the Second World War, 2.5 million men from what's now India and Pakistan fought on our side. Ethnic minorities made up 6.6% of UK regular forces in 2010.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

As you say, perhaps we can now get back to the subject of the thread.




Last edited by Ivan on Fri May 11, 2012 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by astra on Fri May 11, 2012 3:35 pm

In the Second World War,

attitudes, just like words, have changed markedly since then Sad
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by bobby on Fri May 11, 2012 4:01 pm

attitudes, just like words, have changed markedly since then Sad

Yes V, and not all for the best.
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri May 11, 2012 7:44 pm

If you want to experience at first-hand what it's like to be one of an "ethnic minority" simply run out of cash whilst in a foreign country.

Tourists are generally welcome as a source of income, but present yourself suddenly as a potential burden, and watch the smiles fade!

Now, back to the Tory government, if you want to feel especially depressed on this sunny Friday.
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by sickchip on Fri May 11, 2012 7:49 pm

If you want to experience at first-hand what it's like to be one of an "ethnic minority" simply run out of cash whilst in a foreign country.

Top tip! - I think I'll give it a miss though. Smile
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by Mel on Fri May 11, 2012 9:28 pm

Good grief. I leave the forum for 5mins and all hell lets loose.

All started by the member who pops up here and there, abuses the rules of the forum and creates havoc with such a sensitive subject as racism and then buggers off.
For Gods sake you fellows, don't spoil such a friendly well run forum where its very existance is well appreciated by its members.

If this sort of infighting continues I shall be reluctantly forced to take remedial action against all who over step the mark.

Let's leave the in-fighting to the Tories and the LD's please.

Thank you for your anticipation Gentlemen (and ladies if applicable)
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

Post by sickchip on Fri May 11, 2012 9:41 pm

Mel,

Point taken.....and it is indeed a well run forum. I won't allow certain comments/attitudes to go unchallenged though; and I hope you appreciate that.

I might also add, that despite the wee fracas above, I would not wish sanctions to be taken against anybody involved - they are all valued contributors to this forum. Sometimes we agree - sometimes we disagree.

I was going to send you this as a personal message...but thought it was better to be open.
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Re: If the Tories are so great in government, how come they lost the 1997 election and failed to win in 2010?

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