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Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

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Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by ROB on Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:19 am

First topic message reminder :


Cloaked planet-sized UFO discovered near Mercury? Read the article and view the video.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Mysterious planet-sized object spotted near Mercury
By Eric Pfeiffer

Is a giant, cloaked spaceship orbiting around Mercury?

Theorists have seized on the images captured from the "coronal mass ejection" (CME) last week as suggestive of alien life hanging out in our own cosmic backyard. Specifically, the solar flare washing over Mercury appears to hit another object of comparable size. “It's cylindrical on either side and has a shape in the middle. It definitely looks like a ship to me, and very obviously, it's cloaked,” YouTube-user siniXster said in his video commentary on the footage, which has generated hundreds of thousands of views this week.

Full article: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/mysterious-planet-sized-object-spotted-near-mercury-154443870.html
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by ROB on Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:02 am


Papaumau,

Completely off topic, is your screen name Polynesian?

Although not as "intense" as a few years ago, I'm a science fiction fan. I mot like sci fi tales that account for such limitations in reality as inertia and the cosmic speed limit. I also like sci fi where the "trappings' are authentic. For this reason, I enjoy Star Trek the Second Generation far more than the original, as the interaction between captain and senior officers seems much more USN-ish/RN-ish than in the first generation series.

It could have been Isaac Asimov that said that good science fiction writers minimize suspension of disbelief as much as possible. When Captain Picard issue an order and turns to another concern, that echoes what little I've been able to glean of RN and USN protocol. Another comforting point is correct use of rank titles in two ways; one being the ranks generally associated with certain jobs (the ExO of a capital ship is typically a Commander, for instance) and the correct use of pronouns (commissioned officers of higher rank than oneself, and civilians, especially civilians of "rank", such as SECNAV, SECDEF, and CIC in the US, are addressed and "sir" if male and "ma'am" if female, a protocol rigorously followed by Star Trek II.

An intriguing novel I read awhile back featured a civilization in which the captain of a vessel was the titular head but the keysman was actually the Big Kahuna. If you've any idea of the novel's tile or author, I'd like to get my hands on it again.

I enjoy discussing things with you.

Rock

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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Papaumau on Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:43 pm

"Rock".....

You said:

Completely off topic, is your screen name Polynesian?

And I wonder if you are saying that what I am saying is "off-topic" or that you in fact mean that your next post is the "off-topic" one ?

Don't know anybody called "Polynesian" !

I don't believe that anything that is connected to space-travel could be "off-topic" as far as "visiting aliens", ( the threadstarter title ), is concerned as they are going to have to do that in some way if they want to get through those awful distances to fly around earth confusing us with their tricky habits.

While I agree that there are a good few analogies with the rank superstructure and the references to each-other in the Roddenberry version of the earth-bound navy, ( and the fact that this analogy has been used in many other science fiction stories by other authors ), and the "ships" of the space-navy, even if in most of the stories before-and-after the T.N.G. set are more like exploration ships than warships. It is also interesting that right through the evolution of Star-Trek they were always finding and applying more and more offensive and defensive weaponry to their ships as the series evolved.

It was also pleasant to see, if somewhat unnatural, that Roddenberry seemed to think that by the time that the "humans" had grown to be experienced space-travellers they had seemed to have left behind all of the weaknesses that humans had had for many thousands of years before. I mean by this that the human race seemed to - by the time of regular space-travel - become altruistic and had left greed and religion and cruelty behind.

I think that that was a typically Roddenberry hope for advanced humans but something tells me that we would still have all of the flaws that we have today up to and during the time that the human race had evolved into regular space-travellers.

Anyway, I am rabbiting on a bit now - as is my bad habit - and I will give my fingertips a bit of a rest so that someone else can get a word in. Cool

Regards.....

Papaumau.


PS....When can I expect my signature to start working and can I add a small graphic to it when it does ?
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by ROB on Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:58 pm


Papaumau,

I understand that Roderick S, Polynesian often hangs out with Frederick Q. Robinson with Willie and the Poor Boys down on the corner and out on the street, but I haven't met the fellow yet.

The last five letters of your screen name, “aumau”, have a Polynesian “sound” to me’ which prompted the off-topic question. Could also be an East African sound, particularly since certain aspects of Polynesian and East African cultures are not mutually exclusive.

Roddenberry didn’t “predict” no religion; Roddenberry predicted no racism. As “race” as commonly used is a myth, an artificial construct of human invention used to divide those of the common race, the human race, to which every living being ale to communicate via Internet belongs, it is not surprising that racism spills over into “religionism”, as witnessed recently in the former Yugoslavia. That’s what Roddenberry implicitly predicted would be left behind as mankind ventures forward.

There was an episode of the original Star Trek which featured a long-lost holy test that turned out to be identical to certain Biblical text. Roddenberry seemed to imply that the content of the text was universal truth, applicable to all sentient beings throughout the galaxy. That’s religion without “religionism.”

You also mentioned the increases in offensive and defensive weaponry. That’s what navies do. WWII battleships would suffer the same fates as that Argentinean warship during the Falklands War if these beautiful but vulnerable relics tried to hold their own in a modern conflict armed only with their WWII era guns and torpedoes.

But it’s the interaction between Picard and his senior officers that fascinates me. The captain has absolute confidence in his men. He’ll ask if such and such is possible, receive affirmation, and say “Make it so.” No micromanagement, just a “Make it so” spoken with the implicit confidence that when he needs it, it will be so.

Picard asks Lieutenant Commander Worf, the ship’s weapons officer, if a particular tactical scenario is possible. Worf affirms that the scenario is indeed possible, Picard says “make it so”, and nothing more is said at the time. As viewers, we don’t know what it is, but whatever it is, Worf will “make it so.” How do we know? Worf says “Aye, Captain.” That “aye” is money in the bank.

Later on, in the neutral zone, a Romulan squadron decloaks and Picard is facing three to one odds. The Romulan commander, on screen, taunts Picard, who sits calmly in his captain’s chair speaking softly and boldly to his bombastic counterpart. Lieutenant Commander Worf is at his station, above, behind, and to the left of Picard.

At a certain point during the exchange with the Romulan commander, right at the point that the Romulan has about decided to blow the Enterprise out of existence, Captain Picard, while continuing to stare the Romulan commander down, and without turning toward Worf’s station, softly says “Mr. Worf”, Worf says “Aye, Captain”, and four or five Klingon Birds of Prey decloak, hanging in space in perfect formation with the Enterprise, weapons powered up and ready to get down and dirty, Klingon style.

Picard, never taking his eyes off of the Romulan, says something like, “It’s a good time to die. Your choice.” The Romulan, lips curled in frustration, says something like “Another day, Picard”, and gets in the wind in a hurry.

That meticulous attention to captain-senior officer interaction made Star Trek the Second Generation a pleasure to watch.

Rock

Post note: As to the vagaries of the forumotion program, I can’t help you much; I’m a 20th Century wanderer caught in the 21st Century through no desire of my own. Shirina most likely can help.


Last edited by RockOnBrother on Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Shirina on Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:29 pm

PS....When can I expect my signature to start working and can I add a small graphic to it when it does ?

Hello, Papaumau:

To put a graphic in your signature, just go to your profile, click the "signature" tab, click the button that looks like a picture (hovering your mouse over it will read "image" in the tooltip), then paste the URL of the graphic into the box provided. I would ask that any graphical signatures be relatively small and non-flashy (no epilepsy-inducing blinking and such). Ivan, of course, has the final say on whether any graphic you choose is acceptable, or if he even wants graphics in signatures at all.

If you have any issues with it, let me know.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by ROB on Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:47 pm


Shirina,

Do you remember that Star Trek episode?
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Shirina on Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:32 pm

Do you remember that Star Trek episode?
I do, and I especially remember that scene.

One thing that has always bothered me about Star Trek is the Federation's naive, almost child-like view of the universe. While diplomacy and peace are all well and good, the Feds should have known that there would be hostile species out there with no interest in talking. And ... with a space empire consisting of hundreds of worlds, defending them would take a powerful fleet. I have always felt that Federation ships were under-gunned and usually came out of a fight on the losing end. For instance, the USS Odyssey was heavily damaged and eventually destroyed by a single Jem'Hadar attack ship, and even the Enterprise had difficulty with old Klingon Birds of Prey. In addition, the Federation is notorious for entering into treaties that hamstrings itself and handing the advantage to potential enemies. For instance, the Federation signed a treaty with the Romulans that prohibited the Federation from using cloaking devices - but the Romulans still have them. So do the Klingons.

In every situation - from the Battle of Wolf 359 to the Dominion War - the Federation was slapped around by everyone. The ONLY reason why the Federation won the Dominion War was because the Prophets (inside the wormhole) made an entire Jem'Hadar fleet disappear. The Federation can certainly build big, bad-assed ships if they wanted to, and they could do so without sacrificing their morality. In some circles, self-defense is a spiritual responsibility, one that the Feds apparently don't take seriously enough. Every situation cannot be talked out of or concluded with a friendly handshake. You don't see anyone picking on the Klingons or the Romulans - the Borg, for instance, came straight for the Federation.

I think the new Trek (or "JJ Trek" as it's called) will be interesting; I think the Federation in this new alternate timeline, will have far more teeth and iron.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Papaumau on Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:40 pm

Shirina.....

An excellent and entertaining examination of Roddenberry's view of humanity in the Start Trek series.

As I have seen EVERY episode of all of the series's of Star Trek I remembered those incidences well.

When I said that I thought that there was no place for religion in the "improved" philosophies of humanity, I meant that it seemed that, ( as would actually be my most fervent wish ), the human-race had evolved past such faith-based ways of life. As "Rock" said, it also seemed as if - going by the standards of the crews of the Federation ships - racism and bigotry was also a thing of the past. Mind you I am sure that that was actually just one of the admirable wish-lists that Roddenberry had for these so-called "advanced" humans.

One thing came across strongly was highlighted by the quotation that used to be played before every episode of TNG and that was the maxim that said:

"Space... the Final Frontier. These are the continuing voyages of the starship Enterprise. Her on-going mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life forms and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before".

Although this narrative was changed a few times before it was eventually accepted and preceded every episode, it made clear that the original idea of the Star-Trek stories was to be explorers and not in fact to be carried out in warships. Of course, as we all know, after a little time it was realised that many of the alien races that Picard and his crew would meet would not be of the same mindset and in fact the Enterprise would have to evolve into being a heavily armed ship of war as well as a ship of exploration. Roddenberry, in my mind, had a few terrible problems with the paradoxes that these ideas would create.

BTW..... Shirina, thanks for the info of how to enter signatures but I already know how to do this in either BBcode or in HTML. What I was actually wondering is, as I have already written a small signature in the signature-box provided in my profile area, why is it that this simple signature will not display as it said it would after ticking the radio-button that authorised it to be displayed ?

Have I just not been a member long enough ?

Regards....

Papaumau.


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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Papaumau on Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:03 pm

Rock.....

You asked:

The last five letters of your screen name, “aumau”, have a Polynesian “sound” to me’ which prompted the off-topic question. Could also be an East African sound, particularly since certain aspects of Polynesian and East African cultures are not mutually exclusive.

And I have to say that that question has been asked a number of times during my many years of surfing around t'internet.

Big grin ! Laughing Cool Laughing

I guess that the answer to that question is a two-fold one:

Initially I used to use the name "Papanui" as that name was given to me by a very large Maori wrestling friend of mine when I used to wrestle and take part in heavy field-sports in Highland Games, ( now retired ). It means, in Maori "Big Daddy" as I was and still am rather large too.

( I will publish a picture if anyone is interested ).

The development of the pseudonym came after a great song and a particular favourite of mine called "Surfin Bird" or "The bird's the word" by The Trashmen around 1963. Play it HERE and you will see what I mean Very Happy ( If you listen to it for a while you will hear my pseudonym "Papaumau mau a papaumau mau m mau" being said ). Shocked

Regards....

Papaumau.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by bobby on Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:25 pm

I fully believe there is life somewhere else in the Universe, only what says it has to be like anything we can fathom. Some have quoted the conditions necessary to sustain life, but surely that is life as we perceive it. Just look around us and at the diversity of creatures on our own planet. Where is the similarity between Us and on octopus (and don’t say we don’t purr). The conditions that both species live in couldn’t be more different, the only common denominator is the need for oxygen. As different as an octopus is to us, what’s to say that there isn’t life equally different yet again, we have creatures that can exist in freezing conditions, and some in almost boiling conditions. We have creatures that can regenerate and some can’t. What stops regeneration in most species is scar tissue prevents any new growth. It is reckoned that if we could control scar tissue, we would be on the way to re-grow limbs after amputation, after our DNA is telling our cells, we should have two arms and two legs etc.

I believe there is life out there, but we will never see it. If they ever see us is another matter, and depends on how that life has evolved and the conditions it has evolved in.

Our comprehension of time is governed by our metabolic rate, the slower the rate the speedier time becomes. That is why as we get older time goes by quicker, because our metabolic rate slows down. There are several variables when it comes to life.

As for UFO’s. A fast moving object could be anything that is on a different orbit to earth and is reflecting the suns light, just as other planets do. The seemingly quick change of direction could be that it has come to the end of its orbit which comes in and out of ours, and is now travelling in another direction. Not everything in space is travelling at the same speed or in the same orbit. Just my Theory. Wait till I get started on the Bible.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Shirina on Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:00 pm

What I was actually wondering is, as I have already written a small signature in the signature-box provided in my profile area, why is it that this simple signature will not display as it said it would after ticking the radio-button that authorised it to be displayed ?
Sorry, Papaumau, I meant to tell you this last night but ended up side-tracked. The global setting to disable signatures is turned on, which means, of course, that no one can have a signature. I don't know if Ivan doesn't want signatures or if it was a default setting that was never changed. I can turn signatures on, but I want to run it past Ivan first - or if Ivan is reading this post, he can decide after reading this.

There were many things in Star Trek that I wasn't particularly fond of as a future for humanity. For instance, there was virtually no popular culture. With only a few exceptions, these "advanced" humans apparently abandoned rock 'n roll and a good paperback novel for Beethoven and Shakespeare. Everything was just too high-brow. It seemed even Klingons were gallivanting around quoting Hamlet, there was no end to violin concerts and poetry recitals, and painting and chess playing were favorite hobbies. Only the poker games, Riker's jazz, and Sisko's fascination with baseball seemed "down to earth." It's also interesting that baseball ceased to exist as a sport - ostensibly because they put away their bats and gloves for copies of Shakespeare's sonnets. For all of their progress, these 23rd Century spacefarers were firmly rooted in 16th and 17th Century culture. It would seem that, in the intervening 300 years between now and then, no new classics or musical scores were added to the list of what they considered to be worthy of their high-brow lifestyles. About the only thing approaching our modern world, culturally speaking, was Picard's interest in Dixon Hill novels.

One thing I found really creepy about Star Trek was the lack of personal memorabilia inside the crew's quarters. You never saw photos of family and friends hanging on the wall or in a frame by the bedside. You never saw trinkets or keepsakes of sentimental value sitting on their shelves. In short, their quarters contained absolutely nothing that said anything about the people who lived there. I mean, really, who wouldn't have a picture of dear old mom and dad somewhere in plain sight? You'd at least think Troi would have a picture of Lwaxana, daughter of the Fifth House, holder of the Sacred Chalice of Rixx, Keeper of the Holy Rings of Betazed, hanging on her wall. And we know they HAVE pictures because Worf commented on a picture of a young Will Riker and his father holding a fish, "That is a fish you are holding!" Apparently these pictures only come to light when a parent is visiting the ship - and then they disappear. Then their quarters return to the appearance of a Howard Johnson's motel room.

And look at their clothing. YUCK! Who would want to traipse around in those horribly unflattering body suits even the men are wearing! Only Troi was allowed to exude a wee bit of sex appeal, but aside from uniforms, even their off-duty clothing was hideous. Everything was in those muted pastel colors, women never wore skirts except in TOS and the early episodes of TNG, and all the fashions seemed ultra-conservative even when the show was trying to make a character appear sexy.

But it doesn't end there. Why is it that their ships are super high-tech, but when Picard or Sisko goes home, it looks as if they traveled 400 years back in time. Picard's little family chateau in France didn't have a single piece of technology in it ... anywhere! And remember that Cajun restaurant that Sisko's father owned - it wouldn't have looked out of place in the 1800's. Surely there would be no need to wash dishes in the 23rd Century?
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by ROB on Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:18 am


Papaumau,

I’m skeered of you! I’ve seen the Highland Games on TV. On The Travel Channel, a National Football League linebacker had a series called Dhani Jones Tackles the World. One episode found this top echelon athlete humbled by Highlander Games behemoths heaving telephone poles hundreds of yards and boulders backwards up and over beams eighty or ninety feet in the air.

You also wrestled Maoris? Whoa!

I remember “Bird’s the Word” from way back. We used to harmonize this version on the way home:

Papa Ooh Mau Mau

Papanui is a Maori name? Did you know that Maori are Polynesian, and New Zealand are the most southerly of the Polynesian Islands? Is it true that, as you’ve been given a Maori name, you are an honorary Maori?

Anyway, Polynesian culture is fascinating, particularly the navigational skills, centered around the sailing songs passed on for nearly two thousand years, enabling Melanesians, Polynesians, and Micronesians to hit tiny islands in the unimaginable expanse of the Pacific Ocean from thousands of miles away.

Rock
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by ROB on Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:13 am


Papaumau,

Interesting videos about a Micronesian/Polynesian navigator.

Remembering Papa Mau Piailug - Life In A Day Version

'Papa Mau' Highilghted In Hawaii Film Festival
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by bobby on Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:22 am

Anyway, Polynesian culture is fascinating, particularly the navigational skills, centered around the sailing songs passed on for nearly two thousand years, enabling Melanesians, Polynesians, and Micronesians to hit tiny islands in the unimaginable expanse of the Pacific Ocean from thousands of miles away.

I guess though, we never heard anything from those that missed the islands and sailed on to oblivion. Very Happy
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by jackthelad on Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:46 am

bobby wrote:Anyway, Polynesian culture is fascinating, particularly the navigational skills, centered around the sailing songs passed on for nearly two thousand years, enabling Melanesians, Polynesians, and Micronesians to hit tiny islands in the unimaginable expanse of the Pacific Ocean from thousands of miles away.

I guess though, we never heard anything from those that missed the islands and sailed on to oblivion. Very Happy

Bobby, those that missed could be the present day native north American's, the ones we call the Red Indian, rowing all that way in the hot sun would make them a little red.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by bobby on Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:59 pm

Bobby, those that missed could be the present day native north American's, the ones we call the Red Indian, rowing all that way in the hot sun would make them a little red.

Jack, Spot on Mate.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:56 pm

Papaumau wrote:Rock.....

You asked:

The last five letters of your screen name, “aumau”, have a Polynesian “sound” to me’ which prompted the off-topic question. Could also be an East African sound, particularly since certain aspects of Polynesian and East African cultures are not mutually exclusive.

And I have to say that that question has been asked a number of times during my many years of surfing around t'internet.

Big grin ! Laughing Cool Laughing

I guess that the answer to that question is a two-fold one:

Initially I used to use the name "Papanui" as that name was given to me by a very large Maori wrestling friend of mine when I used to wrestle and take part in heavy field-sports in Highland Games, ( now retired ). It means, in Maori "Big Daddy" as I was and still am rather large too.

( I will publish a picture if anyone is interested ).

The development of the pseudonym came after a great song and a particular favourite of mine called "Surfin Bird" or "The bird's the word" by The Trashmen around 1963. Play it HERE and you will see what I mean Very Happy ( If you listen to it for a while you will hear my pseudonym "Papaumau mau a papaumau mau m mau" being said ). Shocked

Regards....

Papaumau.

You should know, but when I saw the name you've chosen it put me in mind of The Beach Boys .....

The last time we were up here We did a song by another group of guys We like very much A real friendly group of guys Called the Rivingtons Their song is called "Papa-Oom-Mow-Mow"
A papa-oom-mow-mow A papa-oom-mow-mow A papa-oom-mow-mow A papa-oom-mow-mow
Funniest sound I ever heard (A papa-oom-mow-mow a papa-oom-mow-mow) But I can't understand a single word (A papa-oom-mow-mow a papa-oom-mow-mow) Well if he's serious or if he's playin' Woo my my it's all he's sayin



Read more: BEACH BOYS - PAPA OOM MOW MOW LYRICS http://www.metrolyrics.com/papa-oom-mow-mow-lyrics-beach-boys.html#ixzz1lc78hG3u
Copied from MetroLyrics.com
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Papaumau on Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:16 pm

Shirina....

Thanks for that, I will wait to see what the boss-man says !

Rock....

WOW what a coincidence that is ! I had no idea that the name Papa Mau was so important in Polynesian culture.

My Maori pal used to follow me and a few other heavyweights as we went round the Highland games circuits. I believe he had been in Britain for many years since he left New-Zealand.

Thanks for the links, they were very enlightening !

Talking about the Song that the Beachboys did: I think that they stole that from The Rivingtons, who stole it from the Trashmen. I stole it from The Trashmen Twisted Evil

Anyway, here is a picture of me during those halcyon days !


I was actually three stone lighter there as my doctor told me to get some of the beef off.

Regards.....

Papaumau
( Just call me Papa for easy typing ).
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by moonbeam on Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:24 pm

Nice pic, Papa. Smile

What happened to the alien discussion though? I have an open mind, myself. The universe is simply too large to believe we're the only life form.

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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by ROB on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:02 pm


Papa,

If you can still run a four nine, I know of a coupla National Football League teams that would love to pay you serious money to get after some opposing quarterbacks!

It is an incredible pair of coincidences, your Maori connection and name and the Papa Mau almost identical name to which you gravitated. I first read about Papa Mau in a 1977 National Geographic Magazine story about a group of native Hawaiians seeking to re-establish their Polynesian roots by making the double-hulled canoe voyage from Maui to Tahiti using only the sailing songs and navigational skills passed down for maybe two thousand plus years. There was no one left in Hawaii who knew the songs and possessed the skills, so they reached out to their Micronesian brother, Papa Mau, who successfully piloted the massive double-hulled canoe constructed by the Hawaiians from Lahaina, Maui to Papeete, Tahiti, French Polynesia.

The voyage track was recorded and reproduced in the article; when compared to the course set by the then-latest (1976) navigational devices, Papa's course intertwined with the modern course in such a way that I was moved to literally jump and shout. The Polynesian / Micronesian / Melanesian navigators were awesome!

The question has been posed: What happened to those who missed? Perhaps some did reach North and South America, although no solid evidence of this possibility has been discovered insofar as I know. Easter Island was populated by Polynesians who for some reason became isolated there. More likely in my opinion is that the rigorous training required to become a navigator, which included memorizing the sailing songs verbatim, and knowing even the taste of the water at certain points in the Pacific, minimized misses.

Odysseus a great navigator? That vast Aegean Sea is a monster that eats ships! And heaven forbid if he had gotten lost in the trackless Mediterranean! The Vikings great navigators? That's one hell of an accomplishment jumpimg from Sandanavia and the northern islands of Scotland al the way to Iceland, and then Greenland, and then Newfoudland!

Meanwhile, those fair to middling Pacific navigators, functioning sans North Star and compass, didn't do much. All they did was complete the five thousand miles voyage from Tahiti to Hawaii by going east, making a hard left turn at some tiny island, and hitting Maui like Annie Oakley hitting a bulls-eye.


This is a file from the Wikimedia Commons.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Pacific_Ocean_satellite_image_location_map.jpg

Back to UFOs and aliens, I've not given my opinion, which I'll now do. UFOs are fact, so the opinion part is in regards to aliens. I have a suspicion that the universal speed limit cannot be exceeded in three dimensional space. But who said that all of creation is three dimensional space with an added time dimension? If we as three dimensional beings observed from above a gang of two dimensional beings trying to break into a safe which consisted of a impenetrable two dimensional rectangle, we might be tempted to holler down to them, "Just jump over the line!" to which they might reply, "What's 'jump over?'"

Suppose four dimensional beings are shouting "down" to us and we're failing to understand?

Rock
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Papaumau on Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:38 am

moonbeam wrote:Nice pic, Papa. Smile

What happened to the alien discussion though? I have an open mind, myself. The universe is simply too large to believe we're the only life form.


Thanks Moonbeam ! ( I have never been a shy one, as anyone who has been used to doing public performances are usually inclined to NOT be shy. I have actually been called a narcissist by some before ). Cool

Sorry about contributing to the slide off-topic but I am afraid that that is something that happens all the time on forums.

I guess that the basic premise that "the universe is just too large" for there not to have been life in other solar systems has to be true as it is just about mathematically certain that the conditions that came about on earth that provided support for so many varied kinds of life MUST have happened in some form in other galaxies of our own universe. As has also already been said here, it is highly possible that aliens from parallel universes have found a way to cross over the barrier between their universe and ours if it is not possible for them to cover the enormous distances that would have to be covered to travel to us within this universe.

It's a very big subject and one that has been discussed at length by scientists and laymen alike for hundreds of years and in those hundreds or years we have become no nearer to even beginning to prove that what we see and interpret as alien craft are actually that.

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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by moonbeam on Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:41 pm

Papa, I work with a guy whose picture could *easily* be found in the dictionary under "narcissist". Shocked I finally had to delete him off my facebook before I got out of hand with the snark. I doubt you could be possibly be as annoying as that.



Do you ever wonder if we are some other life form's "aliens"? If somewhere in that other universe, they're saying the same things we are?

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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Shirina on Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:12 pm

Do you ever wonder if we are some other life form's "aliens"? If somewhere in that other universe, they're saying the same things we are?
I've often considered this as a possible explanation for ghosts.

Scientists are now seriously considering the possibility of alternate realities - duplicate earths with identical copies of ourselves, but in a world that is slightly different. It may be a monumental difference like Hitler winning WWII, or a tiny difference like you having a glass of orange juice on May 23rd, 2001 instead of a cup of coffee.

I've postulated that what people see as "ghosts" may actually be those "duplicate" people bleeding over into our reality. If you add to that the possibility of a small temporal shift, it would make sense. For instance, if a woman sees the ghost of her grandfather rocking back and forth in his favorite chair, is she seeing a spirit? Or is she seeing her grandfather in another reality? Since both realities are duplicates, the grandfather's chair would be in the exact same place as the chair in the woman's reality. Thus, when the grandfather sits in it and begins rocking, his body would be aligned perfectly with the chair in the woman's reality and the chair would appear to rock. If the woman was alive in the grandfather's reality, him seeing her would not be a shock, but to the woman, seeing her dead grandfather would be treated as seeing a ghost. This would work the same way in the alternate reality. If the woman had died in the grandfather's reality, him seeing the woman in our reality would be interpreted as a ghost.

There does seem to be a temporal shift, however, as ghosts are often seen wearing clothing of another era. It would seem SOME alternate realities are not in precise alignment with ours. There have been reports of ghost sightings where apparitions were manipulating items that were not there. A good example is the ghost of a woman in a theater whose legs always seemed to be buried in the floor up to her shins. No one could figure out why until it was learned that the original floor had been raised about half a foot some years before. The woman was obviously walking on the old floor, not the raised floor. In her reality, either the floor had never been raised, or the witnesses were seeing the "ghost" of a woman existing in a reality decades behind our own.

Or ... another equally plausible theory is that the differences in clothing could be a result of another reality not advancing technologically as quickly as our own for whatever reason, or perhaps the fashion choices of their society did not mirror our own. Thus it would be possible that a woman living in an alternate 2012 could be wearing clothing from our 19th Century.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:14 pm

"Do you ever wonder if we are some other life form's "aliens"?"

The Human Race is "alien" to itself. How else do you account for all those Wars in history?
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by moonbeam on Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:25 pm

I've never seen or felt any kind of unexplainable phenomena, be it aliens, UFO's or ghosts. Not sure how I'd feel about it if I did.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Papaumau on Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:47 am

I have never seen a ghost or a UFO, or even an alien, ( if I don't consider the English to be alien of course ), but I would REALLY love to see one: A ghost or a UFO I mean ! Very Happy

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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by bobby on Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:10 pm

Scientists are now seriously considering the possibility of alternate realities - duplicate earths with identical copies of ourselves, but in a world that is slightly different. It may be a monumental difference like Hitler winning WWII, or a tiny difference like you having a glass of orange juice on May 23rd, 2001 instead of a cup of coffee.


Over the years we have heard about other dimensions. But the more I think about it, the less I can believe it. For instance, would there have been a Hitler at all. If both dimensions started the same, they would become different as soon as one person died whereas their other self remained alive. Take this hypothesis back millions of years, the population would be made up of totally different people, with different inventions and different beliefs etc, that is assuming Humans survived on both dimensions. I can not believe in the theory but I guess it keeps some scientists in work.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:32 pm

and if we didn't have bollox, we'd have to talk something else.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by jackthelad on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:10 pm

I think people see too much StarTrek, and read too much science fiction. They were showing a piece of rock from Mars on the TV tonight, but only in one dimention, i though i would just mention it. I am waiting to see if i have won on the lottery tonight to see if i can afford a trip out on one of Richard Bransons space rocket. It's either that or winning X Factor.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Phil Hornby on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:19 pm

Quote : "I think people see too much StarTrek, and read too much science fiction..."

So that would be about 30 seconds of each , then... Very Happy
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Shirina on Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:06 am

If both dimensions started the same, they would become different as soon as one person died whereas their other self remained alive. Take this hypothesis back millions of years
The theory doesn't work that way.

What they're saying is that there is a universe for each different choice that could have been made, but wasn't. Thus there would be a dimension where history played out exactly as ours did ... up until Hitler's time. Perhaps in that reality, Hitler died at birth ... and at that point, that dimension's earth veers off from our own timeline and becomes something different.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Papaumau on Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:40 pm

Yes Shirina, and if they are right about there being infinite numbers of alternate universes running parallel with our own, only separated by a thin veil of a dimensional-shift to the left and the right of our universe, then there will be many such universes that will be almost identical to our own while as they move sideways further and further apart the differences in each of these universes will get wider and wider and more and more until they are nothing like the one that we live in.

In other words, if the idea of parallel universes is going to be accepted at all as possible then the idea of infinite numbers of these universes existing must also be accepted.

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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by ROB on Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:14 pm


It is difficult for me to wrap my mind around the ramifications of possible parallel universes. This has nothing to do with the physics; it has everything to do with how many choices each person makes that change her/his life.

Some life-changing choices are dramatic at the point of choice and dramatic in the consequent different life path, but some are miniscule and seemingly insignificant but with even more drastic life path consequences.

I know of one that shifted my life completely. I chose to say “Yes” to an
if-then, seemingly theoretical question on Friday, and three days later my life path veered totally off the direction I though I had chosen it to be and taken an entirely different direction that has resulted in everything my life has become.

I’m one of six plus billion persons; conceiving of the vast array of world directions possible as a consequence of six billion plus choice being made an almost infinite number of times per lifetime times six billion plus persons makes my head hurt. Add to that the fact that six billion plus is just the number of persons alive today; I’ve not an inkling of how many lives have actually been lived by humans.

Infinite? How many paths is that?
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Papaumau on Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:06 pm

Yes Rock, while it IS almost impossible to perceive even the idea of "infinite" universes I believe that because the word "infinite" is simply not a finite number it has to have the capacity to hold every tiny difference there might be when each one of us takes one path or another at any seemingly unimportant junction in our lives. As you say, it does not need for any of these decisions - or not - to be earth-shattering ones to change the time-line in any one of those universes; all it takes is that any person makes the slightest change-of-mind decision for a new time-line to be formed and a new branch into a new parallel universe to be created.

Unlike yourself, I don't even try to imagine what the word "infinite" means as the numbers that are in that word are just too hard to contemplate or even start to evaluate. They just are !

Then again, the parallel universe theory might just be a a load of bunk and if it is we then only have one life to live whereby we are forced to follow the path that fate chooses for us.

Personally, I don't believe in fate as I think that we make our futures by the choices we make every passing second of the day. Then again, before anyone else says it......It could be postulated that no matter what choices we make, those choices are fated to happen and that only serves to tell us that we actually don't have any choices at all.

Now I am getting a sore head so I will stop before I am forced to go and have a lie down. Mad

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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by trevorw2539 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:15 pm

blueturando wrote:I have seen a UFO back in 1984....Something that was very unexplainable, but I didn't bother to report it ect.

It is a stasticial improbability that is isn't some form of life on other planets....just do the Math, but if you believe in what the Bible preaches then you can only assume there is life on Earth

Depends what you call 'life'. The Bible teaches that there is a realm of celestial beings - angels/devils, and some say that the 'giants' of the OT were aliens. The Bible also indicates that we can talk with the 'dead' (witch of Endor and Samuel) though it warns against it. Elijah went to heaven in a 'chariot of fire'. I'm not debating the authenticity of the Bible. I have simply quoted what the Bible says.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by jackthelad on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Trevor says,
Elijah went to heaven in a 'chariot of fire'


Don't you think it's possible that he stood on a land mine.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:23 pm

Or perhaps hoist on his own petard.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by jackthelad on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:36 pm

They do say Joshua blew down the walls of Jericho, all i can say to that is, that they must have been crap builders. Should have taken building lessons from the Egyptians, their pyramids are still standing.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Shirina on Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:03 pm

Joshua did have the Ark of the Covenant with him, though, and who the hell knows what that thing was capable of.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:15 pm

Harrison Ford may be able to provide an answer.
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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Papaumau on Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:22 pm

Trevorw2539 said:

Depends what you call 'life'. The Bible teaches that there is a realm of celestial beings - angels/devils, and some say that the 'giants' of the OT were aliens. The Bible also indicates that we can talk with the 'dead' (witch of Endor and Samuel) though it warns against it. Elijah went to heaven in a 'chariot of fire'. I'm not debating the authenticity of the Bible. I have simply quoted what the Bible says.

Well, I am happy to "debate the authenticity of the Bible" as I believe that as those religious tomes - ALL of them - were written by flawed human scribes who's only reason for living was to enslave us all in the words that are written therein, I must take a stance against the veracity of what is written in them.

The massive debate that has been going on for thousands of years about the truth - or not - written in those books means that a heck of a lot of people just like me want some irrevocable proof that any of the words in those works are based on any amount of truth.

As I look though the Bible, for example, ( and I have done at length, while I was a Christian ), I see how it contradicts it'self all over the place and while it offers a plan for a Christian life in one part it deliberately makes it'self into nonsense by saying something different a few pages over.

The debate about evolution against creationism is one that has caused great strife between the people of faith and the people of science for many years and even although there is masses of proof that life began on earth via the Primordial Soup theory, and continued via evolution and the included Natural Selection of Darwin, the religious ones still seem unable to see that the Adam and Eve idea is just not workable for many reasons. ( I won't argue them here unless I am asked to ).

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Re: Do you believe there are UFOs and aliens?

Post by Thinking...do be patient on Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:12 pm

This topic should be based on objective scientific observation that reaches testable conclusions, no evidence has been produced that's testable as proof of aliens or UFO'S (alien spacecraft).
UFO's and aliens are actually quite different and should not be lumped together IMHO.
UFO's for example certainly exist in the sense that an object can be observed that hasn't been identified by the viewer like a new type of aircraft or a rare atmospheric phenomenon. Something that is unidentified is not necessarily an alien spacecraft.
So I have to say that I have not been convinced on real scientific evidence of any alien spacecraft or beings observed on Earth.

Does life exist in the universe? I think after some study that it could be possible and that's why scientists are still looking with telescopes and in particular our own solar system with possibilities of some form of life on Mars, The moon Enceladus, which orbits Saturn and Europa a moon that orbits Jupiter for example.

As to alien life that is sentient nobody really has an answer until we find it, or it finds us.

Live long and prosper!
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