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Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

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Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by Stox 16 on Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:53 am

I Have become quite worried by the fact that UK police officers being issued firearms due to the increasingly violent nature of crime they are having to face today, but what is the true the costs of such a measure to our society? is this a road we should be going down at all? if not what should we do instead?
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by Shirina on Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:05 am

I Have become quite worried by the fact that UK police officers being issued firearms due to the increasingly violent nature of crime they are having to face today, but what is the true the costs of such a measure to our society? is this a road we should be going down at all? if not what should we do instead?
I live in a country where the police are ALWAYS armed, and I am glad they are. The cost of having unarmed policemen trying to protect me could very well be my life. Policemen in real-life aren't the superheroes of action movies. I would hate for my life to be determined by the fighting prowess of an ordinary person - a cop - who can be overwhelmed, beaten up, or stabbed like any other ordinary person. And then where would I be?

While it is true that, here in the US, many criminals also have guns. Most of them, however, are not trained. Keeping a steady aim, identifying the target, and firing accurately while adrenalin is pumping through your body, while your surroundings are in chaos, is not something the untrained person can do. Policemen, however, are trained and have a distinct edge over a criminal.

I know Britain does not have a gun culture like the US does; thugs with guns is not anywhere near the epidemic it is here. Thus armed police may not be right for the country. But, all things considered ...
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by bobby on Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:18 am

The vast majority of gun crime here in the UK is perpetrated by gangs, and usualy on an opposong gang member, so in that case who gives a shit if these lowlife scum are busy taking each other out.
When push comes to shove, I also believe that whilst these gangs (mainly Black), continue to use guns our police officers should also have the means to put them down in the quickest/safest possible manner.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by keenobserver1 on Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:23 am

bobby wrote:The vast majority of gun crime here in the UK is perpetrated by gangs, and usualy on an opposong gang member, so in that case who gives a shit if these lowlife scum are busy taking each other out.
When push comes to shove, I also believe that whilst these gangs (mainly Black), continue to use guns our police officers should also have the means to put them down in the quickest/safest possible manner.

There have been a number of incidents in recent years where the gun crime here was not gang related.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:39 pm

Why should anyone take any notice of a Policeman? Just tell 'em to Foxtrot Oscar.
But not if they are armed, by virtue of the task they have been assigned by Society. That's what makes them capable of Law enforcement.

Incidentally, British Police have routinely carried firearms since the IRA bombing campaign reached the mainland, some forty years ago.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by Shirina on Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:45 pm

The vast majority of gun crime here in the UK is perpetrated by gangs, and usualy on an opposong gang member, so in that case who gives a shit if these lowlife scum are busy taking each other out.
If these gangs went to some quiet meadow and waged a Napoleonic battle far away from everyone else, I'd totally agree with you.

Unfortunately, these gangs wage their wars in some of the most densely populated places in the Western world. Civilians are frequently caught in the crossfire. A 10 year-old boy was accidentally shot in the head by a gangland sniper while the boy was walking to school. A young mother of two was killed in her own home when a stray bullet smashed through her window and struck her in the face. An old man was killed while sitting in a lawn chair watching a 4th of July parade with is family - the gun had been fired over a mile away. People get caught up in drive-by shootings simply because a rival gang member happened to be nearby when the firing started.

And there are the frequent cases of mistaken identity. As was the case involving two teen-aged girls gunned down in their car while waiting for a traffic light to change. The gang thought they were someone else. Oops. There are no "take backs" when you kill someone.

When the bullets fly in these gang fights, every bullet that misses goes somewhere ... into homes, into schools, and all too often, into innocent people. As with so many wars, civilians often end up the victims. Gang wars are no different. I sometimes think cops in our country need to be even more heavily armed considering the kind of firepower gangs are bringing to bear on the streets.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:08 pm

Statistically, the most dangerous place is "in bed". More people die there than in any other location.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by keenobserver1 on Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:55 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Statistically, the most dangerous place is "in bed". More people die there than in any other location.

Would you be counted twice if you were a gang member that was shot whilst in bed?
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by ROB on Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:57 pm

bobby wrote:
The vast majority of gun crime here in the UK is perpetrated by gangs, and usualy on an opposong gang member, so in that case who gives a s**t if these lowlife scum are busy taking each other out.

“Treetop”, leader of the Slausons, was gunned down by gang bangers in a South Los Angeles drive-by shooting in 1960.

Victim: Black gang banger. Perpetrators: Black gang bangers.

Police response: Negligible.

Media attention (Los Angeles Times, Los Angeles Post, Los Angeles Herald, Los Angeles Examiner, KCBS Channel 2, KRCA Channel 4, KTLA Channel 5, KABC Channel 7, KHJ Channel 9, KTTV Channel 9, KCOP Channel 13): Nonexistent, except for obituaries.

I knew about it by 8:00 AM the morning after, via the grapevine.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Robert Hooks, high school student and athlete, a star sprinter with Olympic potential, was gunned down by gang bangers in a South Los Angeles drive-by shooting in 1974 while he and his brother were finishing a workout at the Locke High School track.

Victim: Black high school student. Perpetrators: Black gang bangers.

Police response: Negligible.

Media attention (Los Angeles Times, Los Angeles Herald-Examiner, KCBS Channel 2, KNBC Channel 4, KTLA Channel 5, KABC Channel 7, KHJ Channel 9, KTTV Channel 9, KCOP Channel 13): Nonexistent, except for obituaries.

I knew about it by 6:00 PM the next evening, via the grapevine.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

(By 1988, gang violence reached Westwood, the Los Angeles neighborhood in which the University of California at Los Angeles, UCLA, had long been insulated from South Los Angeles gang banger violence when a UCLA student was gunned down by gang bangers in Westwood.)

A University of California at Los Angeles student was gunned down by gang bangers in a Westwood, Los Angeles drive-by shooting in 1988 while she and her friends were enjoying a night out.

Victim: Asian university student. Perpetrators: Black gang bangers.

Police response: Intense.

Media attention (Los Angeles Times, Los Angeles Herald-Examiner, KCBS Channel 2, KNBC Channel 4, KTLA Channel 5, KABC Channel 7, KCAL Channel 9, KTTV Channel 9, KCOP Channel 13): Extensive, comprehensive, page one headlines, lead stories, follow-ups.

I knew about it by 7:00 AM the next morning, via print and broadcast media.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

It has taken almost twenty-four years for a succession of tough Los Angeles Police Department Chiefs of Police, interrupted by one lackluster fellow, to restore some semblance of order to Los Angeles.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by Stox 16 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:01 am

bobby wrote:The vast majority of gun crime here in the UK is perpetrated by gangs, and usualy on an opposong gang member, so in that case who gives a shit if these lowlife scum are busy taking each other out.
When push comes to shove, I also believe that whilst these gangs (mainly Black), continue to use guns our police officers should also have the means to put them down in the quickest/safest possible manner.

Well I Guess I am in a group of one. as i have never been totally happy with UK police force carrying Guns. I fully understand your point bobby about gangs. well then its OK to draw arms. but every day policemen? not that happy or sure on that at all. as thank god we are not like the US on this issue.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by ROB on Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:56 pm

Stox 16 wrote:
Well I Guess I am in a group of one. as i have never been totally happy with UK police force carrying Guns.

Why? Do you advocate peace officers being murdered by criminals due to not having sufficient firepower at their disposal when they need it?

Stox 16 wrote:
about gangs. well then its OK to draw arms. but every day policemen? not that happy or sure on that at all. as thank god we are not like the US on this issue.

How is the US on this issue? Do you know, or are you speculating from afar? Would you like to know from first person testimony? If so, I'll answer any questions you have to the best of my ability.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by jackthelad on Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:51 pm

British police officers have no wish to be armed with guns, but we do have armed support officers when needed, (highly trained with the weapons on hand).
They are seldom needed though, i suppose they are something like the American swat teams.
My son-in-law was a police officer for thirty years, (retired now) he doesn't think they should be armed, but lately we have had a lot of blacks and eastern europeans carrying guns. Immigrants have had a lot to do with the rise in gun crimes and the use of knives, so a rethink could be in order, or the return of the death penalty. There doesn't seem to be a big enough dererent at the moment, more police are being equipt with tazers, and there as been more cock up's in the use of them. More and better training is required in the use of tazers and should only be used when life is threatened.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by ROB on Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:21 pm

jackthelad wrote:
British police officers have no wish to be armed with guns, but we do have armed support officers when needed, (highly trained with the weapons on hand).

So when a "regular" police officer comes face to face with a business end of a gun and he needs firepower right now, what does he do?

jackthelad wrote:
They are seldom needed though

Unfortunately, "seldom" is not "never", and it only takes one bullet, fired one time, from one gun, during one incident, to end one police officer's life.

jackthelad wrote:
i suppose they are something like the American swat teams.

Not exactly. In my city, regular cops are armed, and are highly trained in weaponry. SWAT officers are even more highly trained, and offer enough firepower and resources to close down and lock tight an entire neighborhood.

I've seen it done once, around my daughter's school, and several hundred elementary school children's safety was ensured by SWAT's actions.

jackthelad wrote:
... lately we have had a lot of blacks and eastern europeans carrying guns. Immigrants have had a lot to do with the rise in gun crimes and the use of knives, so a rethink could be in order, or the return of the death penalty.

I believe y'all need a rethink on both things. Death penalty, administered to person's guilty of murder, deters that murderer from murdering anyone else for all time. Peace officers may go thirty years without needing firepower, but when they need it, they usually need it now.

It's like lap and shoulder belts in cars, which I've needed only once in my life, and had I not been strapped in, I would never have needed them again, because dead folks don't need lap and shoulder belts.

jackthelad wrote:
... should only be used when life is threatened.

That's when they're used here.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by astradt1 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:43 pm

Perhaps two questions that should be asked are.....
How many British Police officers have been shot in the line of duty in the past 10 years?

How many American (USV) have been shot in the past year?

Then compare the numbers........
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by jackthelad on Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:49 pm

jackthelad wrote:

... should only be used when life is threatened.

Rock say's
That's when they're used here.

I am not discussing what they do in America but here in the UK.
Here a man was shot dead by police marksmen for carrying a table leg, never known any one to be shot dead by a table leg, and it was a bit clumsy to be used as a club. You can't comepare American police with British police, we have never had anything like the wild west, or gangsters like Al Capone. If our crooks carry a weapon it would be a sawn of shot gun not a machine gun.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by ROB on Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:16 pm

astradt1 wrote:
How many British Police officers have been shot in the line of duty in the past 10 years?

I don't know. If the number is one or more, that one or more needed, something she/he/they didn't have to prevent being shot: Immediate firepower, right here, and right now.

astradt1 wrote:
How many American (USV) have been shot in the past year?

I don't know. If you want to know, that information is most likely available on a Department Of Justice website, perhaps the FBI website.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by jackthelad on Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:31 pm

Armed police only encourages armed crooks, as a rule the only thing the British people pack is a suit case for holidays, Americans seem to pack a gun, something in their constitution gives them the right to carry arms. the only arms we are allowed to carry are the ones we were born with. For us to own a gun we must have a bloody good reason, and a permit is not given easily. Guns used by the crooks and gangs are got illegally, don't forget, America smuggled arms to the IRA, not a friendly thing to do at the time, now America is under attack from terrorist they might think twice about letting it happen now.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:35 pm

The principal danger to Police and Public is the nutter who really doesn't care what consequences may follow from his actions.

People whose profession is crime know that if you kill a copper, you're as good as dead yourself.
In their own protection, the Police Force will never rest until they have achieved resolution of a colleague's murder.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by ROB on Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:42 pm

jackthelad wrote:
... should only be used when life is threatened.
RockOnBrother wrote:
That's when they're used here.
jackthelad wrote:
I am not discussing what they do in America but here in the UK.

I know. In response, I am telling you that they do the same thing here.

jackthelad wrote:
Here a man was shot dead by police marksmen for carrying a table leg, never known any one to be shot dead by a table leg, and it was a bit clumsy to be used as a club.

Was the marksman adhering to the rules governing the use of deadly force?

jackthelad wrote:
You can't comepare American police with British police

Yes I can, and yes I do. Both British and American police are peace officers sworn to protect citizens. In many countries, this is not true, so I don't compare, I contrast. For instance, I contrast both British and American police with the thugs that run rampant in Saudi Arabia that call themselves police officers.

jackthelad wrote:
we have never had anything like the wild west

You've had police officers murdered; we've had policy officers murdered. Same same.

jackthelad wrote:
or gangsters like Al Capone.

I dunno. I watch real TV, including The History Chanel, History International (H2), BBC, dramatizations of real life British crime stories on PBS, and I've seen some pretty serious gangsters, folks I wouldn't cross if you paid me.

jackthelad wrote:
If our crooks carry a weapon it would be a sawn of shot gun not a machine gun.

If you've ever seen a sawed off double barreled 12 gauge up close, like I did right after the fellow realized I wasn't the guy he was looking for, you'd know that "!2 gauge or Tommy gun, Tommy gun or 12 gauge, does it really matter?"
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by ROB on Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:03 pm

jackthelad wrote:
Armed police only encourages armed crooks

No they do not.

jackthelad wrote:
... as a rule the only thing the British people pack is a suit case for holidays, Americans seem to pack a gun...

It doesn't seem that way to me, given TSA's vigilance.

jackthelad wrote:
... something in their constitution gives them the right to carry arms...

Amendment 2.

jackthelad wrote:
For us to own a gun we must have a bloody good reason, and a permit is not given easily.

The only good reason your criminals need is "I want to", and the only permit your criminals need is their statements to themselves, "I permit me to carry a loaded gun."

jackthelad wrote:
Guns used by the crooks and gangs are got illegally...

Legal or illegal, illegal or legal, does it really matter?

jackthelad wrote:
... don't forget, America smuggled arms to the IRA...

No, America did not.

jackthelad wrote:
... now America is under attack from terrorist they might think twice about letting it happen now.

Now the UK is also under attack by terrorists, the same terrorists, and they might think twice about thinking that it's just America all qaida beasts seek to destroy.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by astradt1 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:58 pm

Britain has faced the threat of terrorism for more years than we wish to remember, from one source or another and still we do not regularly arm our police officers.
The USA has only recently had to deal with terrorism and that was even though their police were armed.......

With regard to previous question on the number of officer kiled in the line of duty....

UK.... 70 since 1900...from all causes...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Police_Service#Officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty

USA 653 since 2001 from Gunfire only....
http://www.odmp.org/search?name=&agency=&state=&from=2001&to=2012&cause=Gunfire


I wonder if this has anything to do with the right to own a gun?
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by ROB on Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:20 pm

astradt1 wrote:
Britain has faced the threat of terrorism for more years than we wish to remember, from one source or another

I recognize and appreciate that fact.

astradt1 wrote:
… and still we do not regularly arm our police officers.

These two facts are irrelevant to each other.

astradt1 wrote:
The USA has only recently had to deal with terrorism and that was even though their police were armed.......

For exactly the same reasons, these two facts are irrelevant to each other.

astradt1 wrote:
With regard to previous question on the number of officer kiled in the line of duty....

UK.... 70 since 1900...from all causes...

Insofar as each of the seventy who were killed by gunfire, each of these officers needed firepower right then, right there. The fat that each is a statistic testifies to that unmet need.

astradt1 wrote:
USA 653 since 2001 from Gunfire only....

Insofar as each of the six hundred fifty-three who were killed by gunfire, each of these officers needed unavailable firepower right then, right there. The fat that each is a statistic testifies to that unmet need.

astradt1 wrote:
I wonder if this has anything to do with the right to own a gun?

I doubt it. Most criminals use stolen guns.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by astradt1 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:42 pm

astradt1 wrote:
With regard to previous question on the number of officer kiled in the line of duty....

UK.... 70 since 1900...from all causes...

Rob reply

Insofar as each of the seventy who were killed by gunfire, each of these officers needed firepower right then, right there. The fat that each is a statistic testifies to that unmet need.

Of the 70 since 1900 only 15 were shot...........

Rob
Insofar as each of the six hundred fifty-three who were killed by gunfire, each of these officers needed unavailable firepower right then, right there. The fat that each is a statistic testifies to that unmet need.

Are you suggesting that they needed automatic machine guns?
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by ROB on Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:46 pm

astradt1 wrote:

astradt1 wrote:
   With regard to previous question on the number of officer kiled in the line of duty....

   UK.... 70 since 1900...from all causes...
RockOnBrother wrote:
Insofar as each of the seventy who were killed by gunfire, each of these officers needed firepower right then, right there. The fact that each is a statistic testifies to that unmet need.
astradt1 wrote:
Of the 70 since 1900 only 15 were shot...........

Insofar as each of the fifteen who were killed by gunfire, each of these officers needed firepower right then, right there. The fact that each is a statistic testifies to that unmet need.

RockOnBrother wrote:
Insofar as each of the six hundred fifty-three who were killed by gunfire, each of these officers needed unavailable firepower right then, right there. The fact that each is a statistic testifies to that unmet need.
astradt1 wrote:
Are you suggesting that they needed automatic machine guns?

I am stating that each of these officers needed unavailable firepower right then, right there.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by jackthelad on Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:31 am

astradt1 wrote:

Are you suggesting that they needed automatic machine guns?

Rock wrote
I am stating that each of these officers needed unavailable firepower right then, right there.

I thought all American police were armed with a side arm, (pistol) what is it they need now, rocket launchers. I think the only solution to Americas gun problem is to convert all their police offices into Robocops. I think i watch too much telly.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by ROB on Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:10 pm

jackthelad wrote:
I thought all American police were armed with a side arm, (pistol) what is it they need now, rocket launchers.

First question: Pretty much. .38 caliber revolvers used to be the norm, now I believe it's 9 mm semi-automatics.

Second question: SWAT, Special Weapons And Tactocs, has AR-15s (M-16s), MP-4 varients of M-16s, and a whole lot of other stuff. During the neighborhod lockdown I witnessed, SWAT surveyed each street with an armored personnel carrier's detection gear, looking for a criminal that tried to car-jack a parent's car right outside of an elementary school.

In North Hollywood, late 1997, LAPD could have used a rocket launcher and a few Hellfire "fire and forget" tank busters against the now infamous North Hollywood banl robbers.

jackthelad wrote:
I think the only solution to Americas gun problem is to convert all their police offices into Robocops. I think i watch too much telly.

Mmmm... could be, could be...
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Video coverage of North Hollywood shootout 1997:

1997 North Hollywood Shootout pt.1

1997 North Hollywood Shootout pt.2

1997 North Hollywood Shootout pt.3

1997 North Hollywood Shootout pt.4

Jack,

Look at and listen to the firepower and body protection the bank robbers had. 9 mm autimatic pistols don't cut it against that. Eleven hudred rounds fired by the robbes, six hundred fifty rounds returned by police and SWT, ten officers woundeed, seven civilians wounded, two bank robbers dead.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by Stox 16 on Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:44 am

jackthelad wrote:Armed police only encourages armed crooks, as a rule the only thing the British people pack is a suit case for holidays, Americans seem to pack a gun, something in their constitution gives them the right to carry arms. the only arms we are allowed to carry are the ones we were born with. For us to own a gun we must have a bloody good reason, and a permit is not given easily. Guns used by the crooks and gangs are got illegally, don't forget, America smuggled arms to the IRA, not a friendly thing to do at the time, now America is under attack from terrorist they might think twice about letting it happen now.

Well I am with you Jackthelad. too me we arm the police and the crooks will only be armed more with people who are in the way being shot dead by mistake.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by Stox 16 on Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:50 am

RockOnBrother wrote:
jackthelad wrote:
I thought all American police were armed with a side arm, (pistol) what is it they need now, rocket launchers.

First question: Pretty much. .38 caliber revolvers used to be the norm, now I believe it's 9 mm semi-automatics.

Second question: SWAT, Special Weapons And Tactocs, has AR-15s (M-16s), MP-4 varients of M-16s, and a whole lot of other stuff. During the neighborhod lockdown I witnessed, SWAT surveyed each street with an armored personnel carrier's detection gear, looking for a criminal that tried to car-jack a parent's car right outside of an elementary school.

In North Hollywood, late 1997, LAPD could have used a rocket launcher and a few Hellfire "fire and forget" tank busters against the now infamous North Hollywood banl robbers.

jackthelad wrote:
I think the only solution to Americas gun problem is to convert all their police offices into Robocops. I think i watch too much telly.

Mmmm... could be, could be...
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Video coverage of North Hollywood shootout 1997:

1997 North Hollywood Shootout pt.1

1997 North Hollywood Shootout pt.2

1997 North Hollywood Shootout pt.3

1997 North Hollywood Shootout pt.4

Jack,

Look at and listen to the firepower and body protection the bank robbers had. 9 mm autimatic pistols don't cut it against that. Eleven hudred rounds fired by the robbes, six hundred fifty rounds returned by police and SWT, ten officers woundeed, seven civilians wounded, two bank robbers dead.

Rock
I visited a friend in New Mexico and show all his guns he kept at home. I just thought how utterly mad all of this was. to end up with 10 officers wounded, 7 civilians wounded, and two dead bank robbers dead. well that just leaves me very cold indeed.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by ROB on Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:02 am


Stox,

New Mexico is a gorgeous state. You ought to see Las Cruces at dawn and dusk from the scenic view turnout area few miles west on Interstate 10, right after the stretch where mean elevation rises to over four thousand feet. Wow.

New Mexico is also a bit wild. A nature-wise fellow that lived in a cabin up in the New Mexico mountains (an extension of the Rockies) went missing, a fact that became known only when he didn't show up in town for his regular provisioning visit. The sheriff and deputies went up to his cabin and he wasn't there. A search of the area revealed his mostly eaten body, with evidence that he had been ambushed, killed and eaten by a cougar/mountain lion/puma, take your pick, they're all the same.

Your friend seems ready for cougars, bears, and all other beasts, including human beasts in body armor welding AK-47s.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by siddyg on Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:41 pm

I dont think your average punter has anything to worry about from UK police with firearms. ( The PSNI already have them  as standard)
 
There are plenty of armed police officers in the UK and in the last 10 years no innocent people shot - Bar the unfortunate Menezes chap.
 
Uk police officers are probably the least aggressive in the World, unlike many other countries UK police officers are subject to constant negative media, and led by spineless politicians who are always happy to treat them as a sacrificial lamb.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by Shirina on Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:59 pm

Are you suggesting that they needed automatic machine guns?
There was a case some time ago that was taped and is available to view (probably on YouTube). Two bank robbers had manufactured their own body armor, and armed with illegally obtained assault rifles, held off an entire precinct of police officers. The officers' standard issue sidearms were ineffective against the robbers' armor - 9mm bullets were bouncing off. Several officers were wounded as these criminals sprayed bullets into the police cruisers serving as cover. Two men ... just two ... were outgunning and overpowering dozens of policemen. This all happened in just a few minutes - and the situation was not resolved until SWAT, armed with M16A1 assault rifles and at least two snipers with high-powered, high velocity rifles arrived on the scene. One of the robbers was finally shot dead and the other surrendered. They came within inches of escaping.

So in answer, yes, the police do need automatic machine guns. These men had fully automatic AK-47s, illegal in the States; you cannot walk into Bob's Gun Shop and purchase one. Gun laws or not, these criminals would have gotten their hands on these weapons in either case. This incident changed the philosophy on how heavily armed the police ought to be.

But don't take my word for it. Watch it here:


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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by ROB on Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:53 pm

Shirina wrote:
So in answer, yes, the police do need automatic machine guns. These men had fully automatic AK-47s, illegal in the States; you cannot walk into Bob's Gun Shop and purchase one. Gun laws or not, these criminals would have gotten their hands on these weapons in either case. This incident changed the philosophy on how heavily armed the police ought to be.

But don't take my word for it. Watch it here:

[Video: North Hollywood Shootout 1997]

(More on 1997 North Hollywood shootout from page 1)

In North Hollywood, late 1997, LAPD could have used a rocket launcher and a few Hellfire "fire and forget" tank busters against the now infamous North Hollywood banl robbers.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

More video coverage of North Hollywood Shootout 1997:

1997 North Hollywood Shootout pt.1

1997 North Hollywood Shootout pt.2

1997 North Hollywood Shootout pt.3

1997 North Hollywood Shootout pt.4

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Eleven hudred rounds fired by the robbes, six hundred fifty rounds returned by police and SWT, ten officers woundeed, seven civilians wounded, two bank robbers dead.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by Stox 16 on Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:22 am

RockOnBrother wrote:

Stox,

New Mexico is a gorgeous state. You ought to see Las Cruces at dawn and dusk from the scenic view turnout area few miles west on Interstate 10, right after the stretch where mean elevation rises to over four thousand feet. Wow.

New Mexico is also a bit wild. A nature-wise fellow that lived in a cabin up in the New Mexico mountains (an extension of the Rockies) went missing, a fact that became known only when he didn't show up in town for his regular provisioning visit. The sheriff and deputies went up to his cabin and he wasn't there. A search of the area revealed his mostly eaten body, with evidence that he had been ambushed, killed and eaten by a cougar/mountain lion/puma, take your pick, they're all the same.

Your friend seems ready for cougars, bears, and all other beasts, including human beasts in body armor welding AK-47s.

yes Rock, I fully agree New Mexico is a gorgeous state. we met when we was young soldiers but different armies and we just got on very well. I can understand having a rife but not a AK-47. but next time I am out there I will take a trip up interstate 10 and take a good look. I bet its just gorgeous.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by ROB on Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:29 am


Stox,

Take a look-see. Photos do not do it justice.



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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by Ivan on Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:37 am

Just a reminder that the subject of this thread is: "Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?"
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:50 pm

"Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?"

Only if they shoot people for going 'off-thread'... Smile
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:23 pm

Guess I'll stay "on the Piste", then.
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by Stox 16 on Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:15 am

RockOnBrother wrote:
Stox,

Take a look-see. Photos do not do it justice.




just amazing Rock. thanks
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by Hogun13 on Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:56 am

Stox 16 wrote:I Have become quite worried by the fact that UK police officers being issued firearms due to the increasingly violent nature of crime they are having to face today, but what is the true the costs of such a measure to our society? is this a road we should be going down at all? if not what should we do instead?

Bit late to the party here. I have no problem with the police being issued with firearms, they are facing more and more violent crime, most of it gun crime. If you know the right, pubs or people, you can get you hands on a gun, for around £200.....
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:39 pm

" If you know the right, pubs or people, you can get you hands on a gun, for around £200....."

....and thereby presumably set yourself up to be be blackmailed as a result.

Honour among thieves?
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Re: Does it worry you that police officers in the UK are increasingly carrying firearms?

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