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Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

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Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by sickchip on Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:05 am

First topic message reminder :

My personal opinion is that the current spate of tory reforms to the benefit system are cruel, regressive, and worst of all won't save money (the alleged intention).



In a supposedly modern civilised country one would think housing would be considered a human right.......rather than simply an investment / a chance to make a fast buck.

I note there is talk of a yacht for the biggest benefit claimee of them all. I note over £10billion has been spent on the olympics. I note £32billion is being spent on a high speed rail link (london-birmingham) - this will shave, a no doubt absolutely vita,l 32mins off the journey (essential??!!!) and be used by a miniscule % of the UK population.

How about investing this money in affordable social housing instead? Or do government no longer care to invest in those they view as peasants and serfs?

The tories efforts to turn the nation against those unfortunate enough to find themselves unemployed via vile smears, and an insidious propaganda campaign, are reminiscent of Nazi germany's propaganda campaign against the jews.

Iain Duncan Smith is a disgusting human being and has blood on his hands.

Instead of kicking the weakest targets that can't defend themselves....maybe the Bullingdon bullies should try picking on somebody their own size.....like the bankers, or benefit leeching corporations like Tescos.

They currently resemble a 20st thug stamping on a little girls head.

Welfare is essential and if we are to remain a civilised country we owe it to ourselves to provide for those less fortunate; unless we want to see people starving and homeless turning into savages.

The biggest burden on the UK in recent times has not been the unemployed.....welfare is not a burden - it is an essential expense in a civilised nation.

The biggest burden, and the cause of much unemployment, has been the rich greedy bankers who have cost this country, and us taxpayers, untold £billions in order to benefit a few. They have placed the real burden on the UK.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:37 pm

Civil commotion will never receive any support from Britain's Press. Protest of any kind is included in their Crime reporting.

Theresa May has instructed that no TENTS are to be allowed onto the Olympic site.

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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by blueturando on Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:38 am

I dont think civil unrest would help at all as a vast majority of the public do not support it and it then allows the government a free hand to wield the stick without question.....It also costs the nation a great deal of money we cannot afford to lose

It is now obvious to all that the economy has stalled, partly due to Osbourne's austerity measures and partly due to eurozone crisis. The coalition know that they have to activate a Plan B if there is one, but I can imagine the reluctance to do so if the face of 'I told you so' calls.

This is where the coalition and to a certain extent Labour have to show their metal. Are either partys really interested in getting the country back on track or are they more interested in playing party politics?

The coalition now has to seriously invest more money in an attempt to get the economy going again...Yes I agree with saving measures being taken, but there also has to be substantial investment in small to medium sized business. There must also be a way somehow to get the energy companies to reduce their ridiculous prices...this is a major reason why the economy is failing to pick up...Maybe some cross party legislation on energy pricing?

Low earners need to be completely taken out of the tax system. The goverment should encourage apprentiships particularly in manufacturing and pay their wages for the first year....it's better than paying out benefits for doing nothing...and VAT back down to 15%...There I said it Surprised

Labour and Ed Millaband need to be shouting from the roof tops to get their message across to the coalition...so far they have been too weak and show no teeth. Yes it's ok to focus on the public sector, that's what Labour does...but don't make your sole policy or concern because a good majority of the public know the public sector was bloated under New Labour and the coalition are playing on that. We want Millaband to show there is an alternative and then it will make the coalition sit up and take notice....so far its all to easy for them with a weak opposition across the table.
Now some of you will say why should they do that, why should Labour spur the coalition in to more positive action? Well that depends on whether you want the country back on its feet or just to take you chances that Labour may get back into power at the next election in a financially worse position that when they left it...you make your choice, you take your chances.


That's the end of the politically party broadcast for Blueturando and I hope I can now count on your votes!! Now is there a baby I can hold for a photo opportunity Smile

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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by sickchip on Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:51 am

Good objective post, blue.....thanks.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Ivanhoe on Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:00 am

blueturando wrote:I dont think civil unrest would help at all as a vast majority of the public do not support it and it then allows the government a free hand to wield the stick without question.....It also costs the nation a great deal of money we cannot afford to lose

It is now obvious to all that the economy has stalled, partly due to Osbourne's austerity measures and partly due to eurozone crisis. The coalition know that they have to activate a Plan B if there is one, but I can imagine the reluctance to do so if the face of 'I told you so' calls.

This is where the coalition and to a certain extent Labour have to show their metal. Are either partys really interested in getting the country back on track or are they more interested in playing party politics?

The coalition now has to seriously invest more money in an attempt to get the economy going again...Yes I agree with saving measures being taken, but there also has to be substantial investment in small to medium sized business. There must also be a way somehow to get the energy companies to reduce their ridiculous prices...this is a major reason why the economy is failing to pick up...Maybe some cross party legislation on energy pricing?

Low earners need to be completely taken out of the tax system. The goverment should encourage apprentiships particularly in manufacturing and pay their wages for the first year....it's better than paying out benefits for doing nothing...and VAT back down to 15%...There I said it Surprised

Labour and Ed Millaband need to be shouting from the roof tops to get their message across to the coalition...so far they have been too weak and show no teeth. Yes it's ok to focus on the public sector, that's what Labour does...but don't make your sole policy or concern because a good majority of the public know the public sector was bloated under New Labour and the coalition are playing on that. We want Millaband to show there is an alternative and then it will make the coalition sit up and take notice....so far its all to easy for them with a weak opposition across the table.
Now some of you will say why should they do that, why should Labour spur the coalition in to more positive action? Well that depends on whether you want the country back on its feet or just to take you chances that Labour may get back into power at the next election in a financially worse position that when they left it...you make your choice, you take your chances.


That's the end of the politically party broadcast for Blueturando and I hope I can now count on your votes!! Now is there a baby I can hold for a photo opportunity Smile

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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Ivanhoe on Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:04 am

blueturando wrote:I dont think civil unrest would help at all as a vast majority of the public do not support it and it then allows the government a free hand to wield the stick without question.....It also costs the nation a great deal of money we cannot afford to lose

It is now obvious to all that the economy has stalled, partly due to Osbourne's austerity measures and partly due to eurozone crisis. The coalition know that they have to activate a Plan B if there is one, but I can imagine the reluctance to do so if the face of 'I told you so' calls.

This is where the coalition and to a certain extent Labour have to show their metal. Are either partys really interested in getting the country back on track or are they more interested in playing party politics?

The coalition now has to seriously invest more money in an attempt to get the economy going again...Yes I agree with saving measures being taken, but there also has to be substantial investment in small to medium sized business. There must also be a way somehow to get the energy companies to reduce their ridiculous prices...this is a major reason why the economy is failing to pick up...Maybe some cross party legislation on energy pricing?

Low earners need to be completely taken out of the tax system. The goverment should encourage apprentiships particularly in manufacturing and pay their wages for the first year....it's better than paying out benefits for doing nothing...and VAT back down to 15%...There I said it Surprised

Labour and Ed Millaband need to be shouting from the roof tops to get their message across to the coalition...so far they have been too weak and show no teeth. Yes it's ok to focus on the public sector, that's what Labour does...but don't make your sole policy or concern because a good majority of the public know the public sector was bloated under New Labour and the coalition are playing on that. We want Millaband to show there is an alternative and then it will make the coalition sit up and take notice....so far its all to easy for them with a weak opposition across the table.
Now some of you will say why should they do that, why should Labour spur the coalition in to more positive action? Well that depends on whether you want the country back on its feet or just to take you chances that Labour may get back into power at the next election in a financially worse position that when they left it...you make your choice, you take your chances.


That's the end of the politically party broadcast for Blueturando and I hope I can now count on your votes!! Now is there a baby I can hold for a photo opportunity Smile

Bluey, please describe precisely in what areas the public sector was bloated ?
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Ivanhoe on Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:55 am

blueturando wrote:I dont think civil unrest would help at all as a vast majority of the public do not support it and it then allows the government a free hand to wield the stick without question.....It also costs the nation a great deal of money we cannot afford to lose

It is now obvious to all that the economy has stalled, partly due to Osbourne's austerity measures and partly due to eurozone crisis. The coalition know that they have to activate a Plan B if there is one, but I can imagine the reluctance to do so if the face of 'I told you so' calls.

This is where the coalition and to a certain extent Labour have to show their metal. Are either partys really interested in getting the country back on track or are they more interested in playing party politics?

The coalition now has to seriously invest more money in an attempt to get the economy going again...Yes I agree with saving measures being taken, but there also has to be substantial investment in small to medium sized business. There must also be a way somehow to get the energy companies to reduce their ridiculous prices...this is a major reason why the economy is failing to pick up...Maybe some cross party legislation on energy pricing?

Low earners need to be completely taken out of the tax system. The goverment should encourage apprentiships particularly in manufacturing and pay their wages for the first year....it's better than paying out benefits for doing nothing...and VAT back down to 15%...There I said it Surprised

Labour and Ed Millaband need to be shouting from the roof tops to get their message across to the coalition...so far they have been too weak and show no teeth. Yes it's ok to focus on the public sector, that's what Labour does...but don't make your sole policy or concern because a good majority of the public know the public sector was bloated under New Labour and the coalition are playing on that. We want Millaband to show there is an alternative and then it will make the coalition sit up and take notice....so far its all to easy for them with a weak opposition across the table.
Now some of you will say why should they do that, why should Labour spur the coalition in to more positive action? Well that depends on whether you want the country back on its feet or just to take you chances that Labour may get back into power at the next election in a financially worse position that when they left it...you make your choice, you take your chances.


That's the end of the politically party broadcast for Blueturando and I hope I can now count on your votes!! Now is there a baby I can hold for a photo opportunity Smile

Bluey, Even before you answer my previous question I have this to say. I believe in the State nationalising the NHS. The Railways. All of our vital services that we all use, including Community Care, and I believe in free residential care for the elderly. I also believe in universial non means tested welfare benefits, plus a much higher basic State pension linked to British prosperity or inflation whichever the higher for our elderly people.

Naturally these moves would probably mean taxing the high earners and middle classes more, but as I also believe in the abolition of the unjust council tax in favour of a local income tax based on ability to pay, taxes would be fairer and evened out.

You see bluey, I believe the vital role of the State which we all pay into when working, should deliver back to us in well funded services..

What the right of the Tory party have achieved since the 80's is to localise us further and further away from the vital role of the State through initially Poll Tax, which is now local council tax, whilst privatising for profit, all our vital services.

Our railways are the most expensive to travel on in Europe, and why ?, because they were privatised by John Major in 1992-3, therby losing State subsidy to keep fairs low, just as the nationalised railways of Europe have done.

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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by bobby on Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:57 am

Bluey, you seem to be flying in the face of the Tory led coalition, send me your home address via a personal message, and I will get an application for the Labour Party out to you.
I hope Herr Cameron doesn't read you post, as i'm sure it will put him into a(Yet another ) rage, and cause him to want to throw a bread roll at you. That said bluey you will be quite safe, as he never does anything he says so he will eat the bread roll, and get even fatter than he has already become.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Redflag on Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:31 pm

blueturando wrote:I dont think civil unrest would help at all as a vast majority of the public do not support it and it then allows the government a free hand to wield the stick without question.....It also costs the nation a great deal of money we cannot afford to lose

It is now obvious to all that the economy has stalled, partly due to Osbourne's austerity measures and partly due to eurozone crisis. The coalition know that they have to activate a Plan B if there is one, but I can imagine the reluctance to do so if the face of 'I told you so' calls.

This is where the coalition and to a certain extent Labour have to show their metal. Are either partys really interested in getting the country back on track or are they more interested in playing party politics?

The coalition now has to seriously invest more money in an attempt to get the economy going again...Yes I agree with saving measures being taken, but there also has to be substantial investment in small to medium sized business. There must also be a way somehow to get the energy companies to reduce their ridiculous prices...this is a major reason why the economy is failing to pick up...Maybe some cross party legislation on energy pricing?

Low earners need to be completely taken out of the tax system. The goverment should encourage apprentiships particularly in manufacturing and pay their wages for the first year....it's better than paying out benefits for doing nothing...and VAT back down to 15%...There I said it Surprised

Labour and Ed Millaband need to be shouting from the roof tops to get their message across to the coalition...so far they have been too weak and show no teeth. Yes it's ok to focus on the public sector, that's what Labour does...but don't make your sole policy or concern because a good majority of the public know the public sector was bloated under New Labour and the coalition are playing on that. We want Millaband to show there is an alternative and then it will make the coalition sit up and take notice....so far its all to easy for them with a weak opposition across the table.
Now some of you will say why should they do that, why should Labour spur the coalition in to more positive action? Well that depends on whether you want the country back on its feet or just to take you chances that Labour may get back into power at the next election in a financially worse position that when they left it...you make your choice, you take your chances.


That's the end of the politically party broadcast for Blueturando and I hope I can now count on your votes!! Now is there a baby I can hold for a photo opportunity Smile


I would not bet on that one blue, People will only take so much and then they snap as too Labour spurring this Tory led Gov't to do the right thing by everybody not a hope in Hell you can not get through too some one after they have been through the Tory party machine take a good look at Vince Cable and Danny Alexander two ready to join the Tories, Sorry Blue the last part of your post went into one ear and out the other.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by blueturando on Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:50 pm

Oh well......I tried!!! Just thought there was chance that we could 'All be in it together'? Now where have I heard that before?

In my humble opinion probably around 90% or the country does not want a return to the ultra left or a lunge to the ultra right...we have some a long way in this country of the last 50 years or so and neither vantage point would work in the modern, global society. Most people are happy with somewhere in the middle.....including myself.

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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Ivanhoe on Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:11 pm

blueturando wrote:Oh well......I tried!!! Just thought there was chance that we could 'All be in it together'? Now where have I heard that before?

In my humble opinion probably around 90% or the country does not want a return to the ultra left or a lunge to the ultra right...we have some a long way in this country of the last 50 years or so and neither vantage point would work in the modern, global society. Most people are happy with somewhere in the middle.....including myself.

bluey, Whilst im still awaiting your responses to two postings, I have to say that we British are our own worst enemies, we want our services, but we are'nt prepared to pay for them. We are like bloody school children, we want our cake and eat it.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:14 pm

"We are like bloody school children, we want our cake and eat it."

Not unlike some Countries in the Eurozone, evidently.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by bobby on Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:19 pm

Bluey said:
"In my humble opinion probably around 90% or the country does not want a return to the ultra left or a lunge to the ultra right...we have some a long way in this country of the last 50 years or so and neither vantage point would work in the modern, global society. Most people are happy with somewhere in the middle.....including myself."
You are absolutely correct bluey.If we have learnt anything, its that extreme right wing politics such as , Hitler, Mussolini and Thatcher, just do nor work, nor do extreme left as Stalin, Chairman Mao or Foot.
Tony Blair tried to steer us down the middle road and succeeded for most of his premiership. I personally thank Blair for the ten years of growth, lower unemployment, much shorter waiting times for treatment, lower crime, Pension increases Year on year, Free bus travel for pensioners, The cold weather payment, more doctors, more nurses, more coppers, more teachers and teaching assistants, the Social Chapter giving employment rights to employees, we had stability and we had an happier population. He like all, made a mistake or two, but lets be honest, Herr Cameron has dropped more boo boo’s in 18 months than Tony Blair could in a lifetime. Blair had his time and left, he wasn’t pushed he left. I cant remember the last premier or party leader that left and wasn’t knifed in the back since Callaghan in 1979, I dont think the inefectual Currey Phucker Major counts cos he got beaten in the GE, but was destined for the chop from the party unfaithfull.
I feel that the Labour Leader we now have is the right man for the top job, I don’t want him to be confrontational like Her Cameron, but to show us he is the better Man, the better politician and the better Prime Minister. He has up to now been realistic and honest with what he may or may not be able to do. He may not shout at the top of his voice as does Herr Cameron, what Edd Miliband shows is statesmanship and a grown up attitude to politics. I don’t know if he will survive till the next GE, but what is a certainty after 2015, Herr Cameron and Chopper Clegg with his party, definitely won’t.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Ivanhoe on Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:41 pm

oftenwrong wrote:"We are like bloody school children, we want our cake and eat it."

Not unlike some Countries in the Eurozone, evidently.

Err, no. The EU populas have been paying much higher income tax rates for decades, which is why their vital services are very well funded.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:36 pm

The Greek and Italian tax authorities have concealed that well.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Redflag on Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:19 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Only by accident, not by design.
The intention is to show hoi polloi like us just who is in charge around here.

And too keep us in our place to boot.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by blueturando on Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:32 am

Bluey, Even before you answer my previous question I have this to say. I believe in the State nationalising the NHS. The Railways. All of our vital services that we all use, including Community Care, and I believe in free residential care for the elderly. I also believe in universial non means tested welfare benefits, plus a much higher basic State pension linked to British prosperity or inflation whichever the higher for our elderly people.

Sorry that I haven't come back on all you posts to me Ivanhoe. Being the only regular Tory to post on here it's hard for me to answer all the posts directed my way, but I really do appreciate you and other forum members questioning me on anything I have posted.
So in answer to your post above.....I agree on some points and not on others. Yes I believe also the NHS should be totally nationalised. This goes against the thinking a quite a few in my party and also quite a few in Labour too, but I have come to the conclusion that the NHS is an institution that cannot be messed with....Yes it has to be more financially responsible for itself and to stop paying over the odds for medical supplies, drugs and even light bulbs....but major reform and more privatisation is doesn't need.

I am not sure on the railways as I don't have much experience of trains living on Jersey....Ferries yes, trains no.

Where I think you are living in cloud cukoo land is non means tested benefits....please tell why you think this is good. Do you want to increase the situation where a career on benefits in more beneficial to getting back into work? Is this fair to working familes who would earn less than benefit claimants and cannot afford to move to areas where such claimants are receiving huge sums in housing benefits.
I got the impression that the last Labour administration was happy just to leave many people on PERMANANT benefits rather than deal with the issues of being able to work, uneducated so they had trouble finding work, or to crack down on people scamming the system. It seems like you Ivanhoe and Labour have forgotten the Working class...the people you are supposed to represent. Labour was very happy to appease the rich before the 2008 crash and also happy to appease the unemployable......the rest of us rarely got a look in. All I would say is be very carefull or you could lose many of the working class voters for a very long time.
I would also agree with you on free residential care for the elderly, but my concern is where we are going to find the money for an aging population that is growing very quickly...There is only so much of the cake to go round and everyone would like a larger slice.

I agree that the government should tax the seriously wealthy more (very un Tory like I know) and I also would like an explanation on why the inland revenue wrote off 25 billion of un paid taxes in November from some of our largest and most wealthy companies

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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by blueturando on Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:39 am

Bobby....I agree with you, I thought Blair was a very good PM and did many good things for the country......up until the iraq war that is. It's a shame that the war will probably be his legacy, because he was much better than that. He made Labour modern again and a party that could compete on the world stage and in a global economy....My fear for you is that Millaband would like to take the party backwards again the union led days. If he does and you manage to get back in power, the rest of the world will run away into the future with the UK lagging behind strangled with bureaucracy, held to ransom by the unions and uncompetetive

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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Redflag on Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:20 pm

blueturando wrote:Bobby....I agree with you, I thought Blair was a very good PM and did many good things for the country......up until the iraq war that is. It's a shame that the war will probably be his legacy, because he was much better than that. He made Labour modern again and a party that could compete on the world stage and in a global economy....My fear for you is that Millaband would like to take the party backwards again the union led days. If he does and you manage to get back in power, the rest of the world will run away into the future with the UK lagging behind strangled with bureaucracy, held to ransom by the unions and uncompetetive

How can Miliband be taking the party backwards I know it was the Union that put him in, but it is the Unions that are his hardest and loudest CRITIC he has been Booed by union members and castigated by Union leaders and the EU are not that keen on this Tory led Gov't and plus you can not look into the minds of World leaders do you know what they think of Scam...er...on really think of him and his Gov't at the moment top Economists are saying his Austerity alone is not going too work on his own ?
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:36 pm

Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money? Reforms usually COST money to implement. Shame that nobody explained that to the Tory-led Coalition.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Ivanhoe on Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:44 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money? Reforms usually COST money to implement. Shame that nobody explained that to the Tory-led Coalition.

Again I say that this deficit cutting has nothing to do with saving money, but everything to do with right wing Tory ideoligy.

Cameron is finishing off what Thatcher started, he is removing the role of the State in favour of privatisation and charities, and that is the bottom line.

The right of the Tory party in Government believe in low income tax and small Government, even though will still pay our taxes and NI contrbutions into Government cofferrs, but for what I ask myself ?. To help out the rest of the world. To show that Britain is still giving and great, that's for what.

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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Mel on Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:50 pm

Cameron was fully aware of the fact that having struggled to get his
evil party into power by blaming Brown for the effects of the Global crisis, he realised that at least he could implement Thatcher style Tory ideology, whilst pretending to mend the effects brought upon us by the Global crisis as a smoke screen.

I sincerely believe he and his cronies realised from the start that their term in office would be short lived. For one, the very reason that their efforts would be directed to creating cheap labour by virtue of the creation of mass unemployment. The very convenient climate for switching more wealth to the rich from the poor masses.

The problem is, the Lib Dem’s are going along with the Tory tide just as a means of being in office, albeit downtrodden. Clegg has changed colours from saffron to blue it is plain to see.

I have always thought Cameron to be an arrogant uncaring man and a dangerous one at that. He has proven this with his attempt to become the “iron” man by his nonsense attitude towards other EU country members, his attempt to portray himself as the strong man of Europe, and his dogmatic attitude towards Iran and now the Falklands once again. Dangerous to Britain by his massive ego and attempt to gain public respect whilst tearing the guts out of the poor and yet leaving the rich untouched and in an even stronger position than they were before the Global crisis.

Nothing and no one including the Lords will deter the likes of the crest fallen merciless Duncan Smith and the useless wallpaper merchant boy in short trousers Gideon Osborne from their desire to carry on regardless with their wicked reforms and cuts of disaster for the majority of folk.

Welfare reforms are not intended to save money. They are simply to be implemented to reverse Labour policies that they know will never be able to be reversed. Just as Thatcher's dirty work could never be reversesd all those years ago.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Mel on Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:56 pm

Having said that, if we wish to rid ourselves of Camercon and Co, then Ed must go and his brother replace him ASAP IMO.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Ivanhoe on Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:00 pm

Mel wrote:Cameron was fully aware of the fact that having struggled to get his
evil party into power by blaming Brown for the effects of the Global crisis, he realised that at least he could implement Thatcher style Tory ideology, whilst pretending to mend the effects brought upon us by the Global crisis as a smoke screen.

I sincerely believe he and his cronies realised from the start that their term in office would be short lived. For one, the very reason that their efforts would be directed to creating cheap labour by virtue of the creation of mass unemployment. The very convenient climate for switching more wealth to the rich from the poor masses.

The problem is, the Lib Dem’s are going along with the Tory tide just as a means of being in office, albeit downtrodden. Clegg has changed colours from saffron to blue it is plain to see.

I have always thought Cameron to be an arrogant uncaring man and a dangerous one at that. He has proven this with his attempt to become the “iron” man by his nonsense attitude towards other EU country members, his attempt to portray himself as the strong man of Europe, and his dogmatic attitude towards Iran and now the Falklands once again. Dangerous to Britain by his massive ego and attempt to gain public respect whilst tearing the guts out of the poor and yet leaving the rich untouched and in an even stronger position than they were before the Global crisis.

Nothing and no one including the Lords will deter the likes of the crest fallen merciless Duncan Smith and the useless wallpaper merchant boy in short trousers Gideon Osborne from their desire to carry on regardless with their wicked reforms and cuts of disaster for the majority of folk.

Welfare reforms are not intended to save money. They are simply to be implemented to reverse Labour policies that they know will never be able to be reversed. Just as Thatcher's dirty work could never be reversesd all those years ago.

Brilliant.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Redflag on Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:16 pm

Mel wrote:Having said that, if we wish to rid ourselves of Camercon and Co, then Ed must go and his brother replace him ASAP IMO.

Can not agree with you on this Mel as a Labour party member and able too vote on who is leader, I did not vote for any of them because I found they had too much HYPE behind them and did vote for other people, as for David taking Eds place that would give the Tories the next election a plate plus giving the Tory party more ammunition when in PMQs and at other times so Im sorry but you and others are talking the Labour party into the wilderness and hope nobody listens to this and Im sorry for being so blunt and hope I have not been rude.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by bobby on Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:48 pm

Hello Mel. Its so good to see your return, and I hope everything s getting back to as near normal as possible.Your pressence has been sorely missed by me and I'm sure others. Welcome back my Friend.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Redflag on Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:26 pm

Mel wrote:Cameron was fully aware of the fact that having struggled to get his
evil party into power by blaming Brown for the effects of the Global crisis, he realised that at least he could implement Thatcher style Tory ideology, whilst pretending to mend the effects brought upon us by the Global crisis as a smoke screen.

I sincerely believe he and his cronies realised from the start that their term in office would be short lived. For one, the very reason that their efforts would be directed to creating cheap labour by virtue of the creation of mass unemployment. The very convenient climate for switching more wealth to the rich from the poor masses.

The problem is, the Lib Dem’s are going along with the Tory tide just as a means of being in office, albeit downtrodden. Clegg has changed colours from saffron to blue it is plain to see.

I have always thought Cameron to be an arrogant uncaring man and a dangerous one at that. He has proven this with his attempt to become the “iron” man by his nonsense attitude towards other EU country members, his attempt to portray himself as the strong man of Europe, and his dogmatic attitude towards Iran and now the Falklands once again. Dangerous to Britain by his massive ego and attempt to gain public respect whilst tearing the guts out of the poor and yet leaving the rich untouched and in an even stronger position than they were before the Global crisis.

Nothing and no one including the Lords will deter the likes of the crest fallen merciless Duncan Smith and the useless wallpaper merchant boy in short trousers Gideon Osborne from their desire to carry on regardless with their wicked reforms and cuts of disaster for the majority of folk.

Welfare reforms are not intended to save money. They are simply to be implemented to reverse Labour policies that they know will never be able to be reversed. Just as Thatcher's dirty work could never be reversesd all those years ago.

On everything you have said I agree Mel you have covered every point and proved it also, there are plenty of people that will second everything you have said too Any ideas on how Scam..er..on will be brought down before the next election or is there anything in the pipeline that will have the UK say enough is enough?
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Mel on Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:43 pm

Hello bobby boy, thank you for your kind words my good friend.
As usual you are the true gentleman.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Mel on Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:44 pm

Thank you Ivanhoe sir.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Ivan on Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:55 pm

Good to see you here again, Mel.

BBC Question Time last night had the usual mix - 3 Tory supporters (one ostensibly a Lib Dem, but same difference), 1 Labour, and best of all was the comedian Mark Steel. Steel's first contribution was so good that Dimbleby didn't ask him to speak again for half an hour. In the meantime, we had to listen to the repulsive Melanie Phillips supporting the benefit cuts and defending the poor downtrodden bankers.

I read this morning that the Tories have got history teaching in their sight now. Just as the Nazis burned all the old history books and used the teaching of the subject for their vile propaganda, so Gove wants children to sit in rows and recite lists of kings and queens. I've written more about this on our History Channel if anyone is interested.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Mel on Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:00 pm

Red. No offence taken re your "blunt" reply.

I can see your point to some extent and admire your loyalty to Ed.
I like the fellow, however, he is deemed to be weak it seems by the masses and I see the opposite to what you see if David were to take over as leader of the party. I am not saying anything other than the majority of public opinion and that is what is important. To insure we get Camercon OUT!!, We IMO must have a stronger leader that comes across to the public as being so and not just to loyal members of the party.

I recon Cameron would fear David at the dispatch box on PM's questions.
This is where the damage is being done at PM's Questions. Cameron comes over as strong, which clouds the publics view of his arrogance, his cruel nature and his deceit. Thatcher got away with that attitude and Camercon is following in her wake and the public are being hoodwinked to a great extent unfortunately.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Mel on Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:02 pm

Thanks Ivan, tis good to be back, although worse for wear------sad?
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Mel on Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:11 pm

Red. I can see nothing in the "pipeline" that will deter these bastuards from implementing what they wish, except for perhaps a general strike.

This is unlikely to come about as those other than the public sector workers are frightened of their own shadows. As long as they have a job in the private sector, they will put up with anything it seems.

We need a government who helps productive companies, instead of one that supports massive profits made at our expense from non productive Tory supporting greedy bandwagon jumping, multi millionare shareholders and directors. And I refer not only to bankers in this case.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Mel on Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:17 pm

By the way folks, my dear hairy 13 stone friend and companion opposite, passed away in his sleep a month ago . Sadly miss my lovely boy of 10yrs.

An Estrella, Portuguese Mountain dog. Bred to kill wolves. I wish Camercon had made a visit earlier. Ha ha!!!!


Last edited by Mel on Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by blueturando on Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:40 pm

First of all, Mel its good to see you back posting and I hope all is well.

BBC Question Time last night had the usual mix - 3 Tory supporters (one ostensibly a Lib Dem, but same difference), 1 Labour, and best of all was the comedian Mark Steel. Steel's first contribution was so good that Dimbleby didn't ask him to speak again for half an hour. In the meantime, we had to listen to the repulsive Melanie Phillips supporting the benefit cuts and defending the poor downtrodden bankers.

Ivan...No offence mate, but were you watching the same programme? Melanie Phillips certainly did not defend the bankers, especially the bonus award to the RBS boss. In fact all the panelists came out against it. She did however put over a very strong case (as did some of the audience members) for the benefits to be pegged at max of £26k....What has happened to Labour?? You seemed to have ditched the working class in favour of the non-working class. Are you happy to just let more and more working class defect over to us just because people are more aspirational these days

I agree with you on Mark Steel though....after his first rant he was ignored by Dimbleby for most of the show, which was shame as I wanted an answer from the Coalition panelists on why the inland revenue wrote off 25 billion in unpaid company tax last November.

The Labour chap was typically weak and non commital on anything really. I wanted him to answer why the RBC boss had been offered a contract in 2009 that allowed for such bonuses to be awarded....of course he failed to answer that one

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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Mel on Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:42 pm

Ivan. Re last nights Question Time.

Of course Dimbleby tries to be seen to be impartial. However, he has to tow the line with his masters who have had their Knuckles rapped for telling the truth about this horror of a government in recent past.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by astradt1 on Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:43 pm

Why is the maximum amount of housing benefit being able to be claimed set at £17,400 why was this part not reduced to say £10,000 per year and the bit's which the claimant can spend as they choose/need increased by £5,000?
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by blueturando on Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:46 pm

IVAN......ps......2 Tories, 2 Labour and 1 Lib Dem to be more accurate

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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Mel on Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:48 pm

Thank you blue.

Where you fail to see the reality with respect, is that the private sector working man has been brainwashed by the Tories to hate people on benefits and those in the public sector. Tories have cleverly separated them from eachother and have used the media/press (as usual) to use a few bad examples of benefit cheats and others to fuel their propaganda programme.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Ivan on Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:52 pm

Ivan...No offence mate, but were you watching the same programme? Melanie Phillips certainly did not defend the bankers
blue. Then I suggest you re-watch the programme using the link below. At 26:38 you will see and hear Melanie Phillips say: "I'm concerned about the lynch mob mentality that has grown up about bankers. They are being made scapegoats."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01bd4wg/Question_Time_26_01_2012/
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Mel on Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:56 pm

Having seen the "Thatcher film" the only detrimental point made against the Witch was her cabinet were against her argument that "the poor should be taxed the same as the rich".

Of course they were not concerned about the poor, only the damage of public opinion. Typical.

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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Redflag on Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:11 pm

Mel wrote:Thank you blue.

Where you fail to see the reality with respect, is that the private sector working man has been brainwashed by the Tories to hate people on benefits and those in the public sector. Tories have cleverly separated them from eachother and have used the media/press (as usual) to use a few bad examples of benefit cheats and others to fuel their propaganda programme.

You are sooooo right Mel and I wonder at the publics naivete at what Scam..er..on is doing MANIPULATE the people but he will slip up and of course the figures on growth and unemployment and all the private sector business that are going down the plug hole there has two since Wednesday.
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