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Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

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Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by sickchip on Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:05 am

First topic message reminder :

My personal opinion is that the current spate of tory reforms to the benefit system are cruel, regressive, and worst of all won't save money (the alleged intention).



In a supposedly modern civilised country one would think housing would be considered a human right.......rather than simply an investment / a chance to make a fast buck.

I note there is talk of a yacht for the biggest benefit claimee of them all. I note over £10billion has been spent on the olympics. I note £32billion is being spent on a high speed rail link (london-birmingham) - this will shave, a no doubt absolutely vita,l 32mins off the journey (essential??!!!) and be used by a miniscule % of the UK population.

How about investing this money in affordable social housing instead? Or do government no longer care to invest in those they view as peasants and serfs?

The tories efforts to turn the nation against those unfortunate enough to find themselves unemployed via vile smears, and an insidious propaganda campaign, are reminiscent of Nazi germany's propaganda campaign against the jews.

Iain Duncan Smith is a disgusting human being and has blood on his hands.

Instead of kicking the weakest targets that can't defend themselves....maybe the Bullingdon bullies should try picking on somebody their own size.....like the bankers, or benefit leeching corporations like Tescos.

They currently resemble a 20st thug stamping on a little girls head.

Welfare is essential and if we are to remain a civilised country we owe it to ourselves to provide for those less fortunate; unless we want to see people starving and homeless turning into savages.

The biggest burden on the UK in recent times has not been the unemployed.....welfare is not a burden - it is an essential expense in a civilised nation.

The biggest burden, and the cause of much unemployment, has been the rich greedy bankers who have cost this country, and us taxpayers, untold £billions in order to benefit a few. They have placed the real burden on the UK.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Ivan on Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:58 pm


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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:11 pm

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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:55 pm

Today's Sunday Times is apparently sceptical about there being "more work" around. Revised figures from the ONS are expected to show that the number of people in zero hours contracts has almost doubled from the previously calculated half a million. Elsewhere in the financial section of the paper, Kathryn Cooper remarks that although Britain now has 4.9 million "small businesses" that number incorporates 3.7 million which employ no staff.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by boatlady on Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:12 pm

Can this be a breath of reality infiltrating the press?
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:57 pm

To employ a parliamentary metaphor, I rather suppose that Murdoch has withdrawn the whip from the Cameron faction in the Tory Party.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by boatlady on Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:14 am

Rats? sinking ships?
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:25 pm

When the Church of England cry "foul", even the most brain-washed among the public must realise that something has gone terribly wrong under this Coalition government.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:31 pm

A commentator in today's Sunday Times queries whether many of the recently "self-employed" are merely the unemployed re-positioning themselves in the market, (as City whizz-kids like to say).
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by boatlady on Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:07 am

Could have given him the definitive answer to that over a year ago - just another example of how out-of-touch these people are.

Still, I suppose we should be glad it's starting to be noticed
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Ivan on Thu May 15, 2014 11:09 pm

Stitching-up claimants is all part of the job, says Jobcentre insider
 
Extracts from an article by Ros Wynne Jones:-
 
Last week Iain Duncan Smith met a whistleblower who worked for his Department for Work and Pensions for more than 20 years. Giving the Secretary of State a dossier of evidence, the former Jobcentre Plus adviser told him of a “brutal and bullying” culture of “setting claimants up to fail”. He claimed that managers would change people’s appointments without telling them: "The appointment wouldn’t arrive in time in the post so they would miss it and have to be sanctioned. That’s fraud. The customer fails to attend. Their claim is closed. It’s called ‘off-flow’ – they come off the statistics. Unemployment has dropped.”

Debbie Abrahams, Labour MP for Oldham East and Saddleworth and the member of the DWP Select Committee who set up the meeting, has renewed her call for an inquiry into inappropriate sanctioning. Sanctions can last from a couple of days to three years, and leave claimants destitute.

Abrahams also says that Esther McVey agreed to a sanctions inquiry, but then made a U-turn, adding: “Just what are Iain Duncan Smith and Esther McVey trying to hide? This government has developed a culture in which Jobcentre Plus advisers are expected to sanction claimants using unjust, and potentially fraudulent actions, in order get people off the dole. This creates the illusion the government is bringing down unemployment. The last thing they want is for this uncomfortable truth to be uncovered.”

 
For the whole article:-
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/stitching-up-claimants-part-job-says-3537051
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri May 16, 2014 5:35 pm

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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:30 pm

The Independent on Saturday 5 July commented upon a report from research firm Key Retirement Solutions, finding that Pensioners now have to spend £10,387 a year on basic necessities such as food and fuel. Groceries cost a minimum of £1,563 per person per year according to the survey, with another similar sum going on Housing and fuel bills.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by boatlady on Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:41 pm

I'm going to be poor, again, before I die
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Ivan on Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:40 pm

The Terror of Austerity: How the Coalition's Cuts Are Killing Us

From an article by Louisa Ackermann:-

"Until recently, the idea of people dying of poverty in the UK seemed unfathomable to me. I really thought the days of British people relying on charity in order to eat were left firmly in Victorian times. However, our reliance on emergency packages from food banks is at a record high. It's growing hard to ignore that the coalition's austerity measures are killing people in droves. Take the Atos Work Capability Assessments for example; an estimated 10,000 people receiving a form of disability benefit have died within six weeks of being declared 'fit for work' by Atos.

When people steal from the state through benefit fraud, there's public outcry. But when the state steals from the people by failing to provide even a basic standard of living, whilst corruption and tax evasion run unchecked, we're told it's all part of a necessary strategy for economic recovery. It's outlandishly offensive for millionaire Iain Duncan Smith to advise those struggling to land a job to 'get on a bus' away from their homes until they've found a job elsewhere. You certainly don't need me to tell you that it's criminal that Vodafone have been let off paying an estimated £6 billion in tax.

If huge wealthy corporations aren't paying their tax, whilst schools and hospitals and ordinary people collapse, the onus should be on those corporations who owe the state money to make their fair contribution. It just goes to show that austerity is so much more about ideology - the dehumanisation of the poor and the literal destruction of state infrastructure - than it ever was about economy
."

For the whole article:-
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/louisa-ackermann/the-terror-of-austerity-_b_5699092.html
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Welfare reform: fixing 'broken Britain', or abusing Human Rights?

Post by Bernadette on Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:22 pm

As Iain Duncan Smith was being lauded at the Conservative Party Conference for ending ‘a culture of dependency’ through welfare reform, one wondered how many people present knew or cared about one significant but unmentioned fact.

Just a few months ago, Professor Gabor Gombos stated that the United Kingdom has the distinction of being the first country to be investigated by the United Nations Committee for the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, regarding ‘grave and systemic violations’ of the human rights of its sick and disabled citizens.

You can watch a video of Professor Gombos talking about this  here, starting one hour and four minutes into the video. He explains, "The enquiry procedure is basically about grave and systemic violations of human rights in a country. Where the issue has been raised and the government did not really make effective actions to fix the situation (it is a very high threshold thing – the violations should really be grave and systemic, it cannot be based on gossip) it should be established."

Perhaps many people at the party conferences, particularly those celebrating the ‘achievements’ of welfare reform, were unaware of this, as it was mainly reported in specialist media such as the Disability News Service and has been dismissed out of hand by government ministers. But many at the sharp end of welfare reform, and who are aware, welcome the inquiry. They now see a system which often seems to have been designed to cause maximum distress and hardship, effectively punishing people for being unwell.

People like welfare rights adviser Nick Dilworth who was recently the subject of a feature in the Guardian) see the terrible human cost of  the chaos and delays now endemic in the system of support for sick and disabled people, a system that has been ‘reformed’ to disastrous effect, and which people are expected to navigate, often at the lowest point in their lives.

“I don’t think the public knows how bad it is. In the past we’ve nearly always been able to find a solution [to people’s problems]. Now you come across situations where there is no answer and you can’t do anything.

“You get grown men crying. What you see are broken lives. It means we are seeing people for whom all you can do is give short-term answers like food-bank vouchers.’

Nick has also gained a reputation for his rigorous analysis of statistics issued by the Department for Work and Pensions. Through his blog he challenges the rhetoric that has surrounded welfare reform, and its underlying assumptions. He completely rejects, for instance, Iain Duncan Smith’s claim that people were ‘parked on sickness benefits’, pointing out that whilst the numbers may have remained fairly constant, these were not the same people, there was a continuous ‘churn rate’ as people moved on and off benefits as their circumstances changed.

Nick is part of New Approach,  a group which is calling for the abolition of the notorious Work Capability Assessment and a far more supportive approach to helping sick and disabled people find employment if they are well enough.

New Approach warmly welcomes the UN investigation into the United Kingdom’s treatment of people with disabilities. Jane Bence, who herself has uncontrolled epilepsy, says, "The UN Investigation offers us all hope, hope which wasn't there before and hope which none of the main political parties are offering us. A 'new approach' and thought is needed towards Social Security and this investigation could bring that closer."

So, whilst Ministers and their supporters congratulate themselves on fixing ‘broken Britain’, (a concept they themselves invented), the United Nations seems to be heeding the distress of sick and disabled people whose lives are being made unbearable. The government may claim that welfare reform is a success, but history, and the United Nations, may tell a different story.

This blog first appeared on www.ekklesia.co.uk Bernadette Meaden
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:24 pm

There must be some surprise at how willing the Tory Party seems to be to shoot itself in the foot. Having alienated almost all sections of society (apart from the filthy rich), how can they still harbour any expectations of achieving a majority of seats from a General Election?
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Ivan on Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:02 pm

"We cannot have people loafing about, doing nothing and expecting the state to finance their lifestyles.'' (Lord Freud)


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0E5I3_IQAAswDL.jpg

Anyone who attends the House of Lords is paid £300 by the state on each occasion, regardless of how long they stay or how much "loafing about" they do. Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by boatlady on Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:42 pm

It's just getting harder and harder for them to hide their true nature, isn't it?

The comments of Freud about disabled people were not only abominable but didn't even show any evidence of having applied thought to any of the issues around disability - the debate about paying disabled people a lower rate was in the '70's and we decided then that this would be exploitative and open to gross abuse - you'd think he'd at least look at SOME research, history or other evidence before making a public statement
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:25 pm

Almost makes you feel sorry for the Tories, doesn't it?

Criticised for routinely telling fibs, and also for revealing their true thoughts when they lose concentration.

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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by boatlady on Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:56 pm

NOTHING could make me sorry for the Tories
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Ivan on Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:52 pm

Reminder: Lord Freud (recommended by the Tories for a peerage in 2009, five months after he joined their party) was caught out at the Tory conference suggesting some disabled workers are “not worth” the national minimum wage and should be paid just £2 an hour.

Lord Freud was a Tory time-bomb just waiting to explode

From an article by Chris Blackhurst:-

If you read about Freud's time spent working in the City, then his latest comments come as little surprise.

Asked whether his wealth meant that he could not understand life on benefits, he replied: "You don’t have to be the corpse to be at the funeral". Another was when he suggested more people were using food banks because there were more food banks. The other was his suggestion that the children of families affected by the 'bedroom tax' could use a sofa bed when visiting a separated parent.

None of which would raise a single eyebrow in the City. Most City folk would regard what he said as eminently sensible – except they would choose to end benefits, scrap food banks and would struggle to get their heads round anyone not having a spare room.


For the whole article:-
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/lord-freud-was-a-ticking-tory-timebomb-just-waiting-to-explode-9799824.html
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by stuart torr on Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:30 pm

I wish he would swap places with me for a month or two, deciding what to have for dinner two nights on the trot, home made chilli that lasts four meals so it's with rice the first night and jacket spud the second, then a tin of soup the next night, asda's own pizza the next, then burgers and sausages with egg and chips the next, cheese salad rolls the next with crisps, then maybe a pork chop with roast spuds and veg, there you go my menu for the week.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by boatlady on Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:08 pm

Getting a varied diet on a limited income is a challenge
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by stuart torr on Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:25 pm

A big challenge i'm afraid boatlady.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by boatlady on Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:18 pm

Jack Munroe seemed to have some ideas - haven't tried any of her recipes but they seem cheap and tasty
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by stuart torr on Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:45 pm

I do vary my diet boatlady, but that was this weeks menu as I only have one meal a day at night after my night time medication.
But I see it as fun trying to vary it then sometimes I just get plain bored.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:41 pm

The widely-publicised "full employment" we are currently enjoying does not seem to have increased the receipts at Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs of PAYE tax, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/index.html
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Ivan on Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:00 pm

oftenwrong. I think Ha-Joon Chang has explained why:-

"Many of the newly created jobs are of very poor quality. The ranks of workers in 'time-related underemployment' - doing fewer hours than they wish due to a lack of availability of work - have swollen dramatically. Between 1999 and 2006, only about 1.9% of workers were in such a position; by 2012-13 the figure was 8%.

Then there is the extraordinary increase in self-employment. Its share of total employment, whose historical norm (1984-2007) was 12.6%, now stands at an unprecedented 15%. With no evidence of a sudden burst of entrepreneurial energy among Britons, we may conclude that many are in self-employment out of necessity or even desperation.
"

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/19/britain-political-class-tories-economic-fairytale
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:31 pm

Indeed. The Tories have always been sensitive about the measure of employment. In the 1980s, unemployment figures were deliberately massaged down by re-categorising large numbers as disabled. Made possible by the riches then gushing from North Sea Oil. Now the machinery has had to be thrown into reverse.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by ghost whistler on Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:08 pm

boatlady wrote:Jack Munroe seemed to have some ideas - haven't tried any of her recipes but they seem cheap and tasty
Haven't seen her for a while; too busy working for Sainsburys?

Lord Fraud is a filthy disgrace.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by stuart torr on Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:23 pm

Lord Fraud is absolutely disgusting, we have a thread on him on the other site that I go on, lots of remarks about him I assure you.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by boatlady on Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:28 pm

Think Jack's still got a blog going - but has maybe moved on in her life - still see her on Twitter from time to time
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by stuart torr on Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:40 pm

A few have moved on here and there have they not boatlady, but never mind the main ones are still here, if we can get a few more to join in now and again it would be nice.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by Ivan on Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:29 pm

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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by boatlady on Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:14 pm

Well, who'd'a thunk it?
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:15 pm

Crafty Gideon designed a Bill to entrap Labour. There are parts of it which they would obviously oppose, but others which are not miles away from acceptability.

By tomorrow we should know whether his cunning produced a split.

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"the full force of government machinery"

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:00 am

"Businesses that employ illegal workers will be hit with "the full force of government machinery", immigration minister James Brokenshire has warned."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33844047

Blood-curdling threats of draconian action against law-breakers, from the (unelected) government, were routine in Spain under the Fascist Dictator Franco. Fascinating to watch how eager some of our elected politicians are to adopt similar language here.
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Re: Will the cruel Tory welfare reforms save any money?

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