Welcome to Cutting Edge. Guests can see and read the contents of most of the boards on this forum but need to become members to read all of them. Currently membership is instant, but new accounts may be deleted if not activated within fourteen days.

If you decide to join the forum, please open your welcome message for further details. New members are requested to introduce themselves on the appropriate thread on our welcome board.

Members may post messages and start threads, but it is essential that they read our posting rules and advice before doing so. If you have any immediate questions or queries, please post them on the suggestions board.

After posting at least ten messages, members are able to contact each other and the staff through our personal messaging system.

This forum is administrated by Ivan, moonbeam and Shirina, and moderated by astradt1, boatlady and Mel.

Thank you for visiting Cutting Edge.

Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Page 1 of 24 1, 2, 3 ... 12 ... 24  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Ivan on Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:21 pm

In my opinion, the UK under our extreme right-wing government is rapidly degenerating into velvet glove fascism.

Like all fascists, Hitler was against trade unions and socialists. Similarly, Michael Gove vilified primary school teachers and dinner ladies, many of whom went on strike for the first time in their lives on 30 November last year, as “militants itching for a fight”. Gove has plans for military cadets in every school (Cameron Youth?) and a return to children sitting in rows reciting lists of kings and queens in history lessons, rather than learning to think. Hitler also realised how important history was to indoctrination when he ordered the mass burning of books. Tories close libraries.

Hitler made sure that he controlled the media. The Tories have cowed the BBC by threats of fragmentation and sharing the licence fee with others, such as Murdoch. The BBC, which was required to be impartial, has become just another mouthpiece for Tory propaganda. As soon as they came to power in 2010, the Tories instructed every minister to repeat over and over again the whopping lie that Labour, not Tory bankers, caused the global credit crisis. We have the repeated lie about everyone in the public sector getting “gold-plated pensions”, when the average is only £5,600 per annum. As Goebbels said: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." Cameron has proved over and over again that he’s a pathological liar.

Hitler divided and ruled the German people by scapegoating Jews and gypsies. The Tories are demonising those who receive benefits, one result of which is that disability hate crimes are increasing. Duncan Smith went on breakfast television on 27 May 2010 and made the chilling remark: "Work makes you free". That's an exact translation of the sign which used to hang over the entrances to concentration camps.

The Tories have plans to force 50,000 disabled youth to work for companies such as Sainsbury's and Tesco's unpaid. Cancer patients are being made to undergo work assessments while being treated with chemotherapy, and wounded soldiers are being sacked. (Osborne is willing to take money from the disabled and cancer patients, but not prepared to veto Hester's bonus from the largely state-owned RBS.)

The police are being trained to shoot people with rubber bullets and will be issued with water cannon, yet the Tories were so keen on helping Arab rebels in North Africa. Two unknown Scottish teenagers made a joke on 'Facebook' about organising riots, and they both received four years in jail. A prominent Tory TV presenter (and personal friend of Cameron) made a tasteless joke about murdering trade unionists on prime time television; nothing was done about it and the BBC continue to pay him £1 million a year of our money.

We don't have any concentration camps in the UK, but the principles are the same - propaganda, indoctrination, and divide and rule by demonising a section of the population. While Hitler gassed Jews, the Tories clearly don't care if benefit claimants starve to death. Even payments from the Social Fund, for those in the most desperate need, will no longer be available from job centres but will be at the 'discretion' of local councils, who will not have to ring-fence the money. All the ingredients of fascism are there, but it's just being handed out to us in a more genteel form than Hitler used - in velvet gloves.




Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts: 3881
Join date: 2011-10-07
Location: On this forum or Twitter most of the time

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:30 pm

The most chilling thing of all about the above - which might normally be dismissed as an exaggerated partisan account - is that it sadly appears to be true. The time will come when we rue the day we ever let it all happen, and are grateful for the eventual deliverance of so many of our people from a cruel and vicious hate-fuelled Tory nightmare...

Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts: 2836
Join date: 2011-10-07
Location: Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Redflag on Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:44 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:The most chilling thing of all about the above - which might normally be dismissed as an exaggerated partisan account - is that it sadly appears to be true. The time will come when we rue the day we ever let it all happen, and are grateful for the eventual deliverance of so many of our people from a cruel and vicious hate-fuelled Tory nightmare...

Your correct P.H Ivan is right on the button with that post, In one point I will differ I don't think the UK could last until 2015 next GE if we do it will be a UK that nobody will recognize and the next Gov't could find it that hard to get it back to the UK we know and love. No

Redflag

Posts: 3226
Join date: 2011-12-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Stox 16 on Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:48 am

Ivan wrote:In my opinion, the UK under our extreme right-wing government is rapidly degenerating into velvet glove fascism.

Like all fascists, Hitler was against trade unions and socialists. Similarly, Michael Gove vilified primary school teachers and dinner ladies, many of whom went on strike for the first time in their lives on 30 November last year, as “militants itching for a fight”. Gove has plans for military cadets in every school (Cameron Youth?) and a return to children sitting in rows reciting lists of kings and queens in history lessons, rather than learning to think. Hitler also realised how important history was to indoctrination when he ordered the mass burning of books. Tories close libraries.

Hitler made sure that he controlled the media. The Tories have cowed the BBC by threats of fragmentation and sharing the licence fee with others, such as Murdoch. The BBC, which was required to be impartial, has become just another mouthpiece for Tory propaganda. As soon as they came to power in 2010, the Tories instructed every minister to repeat over and over again the whopping lie that Labour, not Tory bankers, caused the global credit crisis. We have the repeated lie about everyone in the public sector getting “gold-plated pensions”, when the average is only £5,600 per annum. As Goebbels said: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." Cameron has proved over and over again that he’s a pathological liar.

Hitler divided and ruled the German people by scapegoating Jews and gypsies. The Tories are demonising those who receive benefits, one result of which is that disability hate crimes are increasing. Duncan Smith went on breakfast television on 27 May 2010 and made the chilling remark: "Work makes you free". That's an exact translation of the sign which used to hang over the entrances to concentration camps.

The Tories have plans to force 50,000 disabled youth to work for companies such as Sainsbury's and Tesco's unpaid. Cancer patients are being made to undergo work assessments while being treated with chemotherapy, and wounded soldiers are being sacked. (Osborne is willing to take money from the disabled and cancer patients, but not prepared to veto Hester's bonus from the largely state-owned RBS.)

The police are being trained to shoot people with rubber bullets and will be issued with water cannon, yet the Tories were so keen on helping Arab rebels in North Africa. Two unknown Scottish teenagers made a joke on 'Facebook' about organising riots, and they both received four years in jail. A prominent Tory TV presenter (and personal friend of Cameron) made a tasteless joke about murdering trade unionists on prime time television; nothing was done about it and the BBC continue to pay him £1 million a year of our money.

We don't have any concentration camps in the UK, but the principles are the same - propaganda, indoctrination, and divide and rule by demonising a section of the population. While Hitler gassed Jews, the Tories clearly don't care if benefit claimants starve to death. Even payments from the Social Fund, for those in the most desperate need, will no longer be available from job centres but will be at the 'discretion' of local councils, who will not have to ring-fence the money. All the ingredients of fascism are there, but it's just being handed out to us in a more genteel form than Hitler used - in velvet gloves.




Just like PH.. i too find this quite chilling but a very good reminder of how far the right wing can go. I also believe the left wing or left of center has been under full attack on our views for the last 35 years. with little or no let up by the right wing and friends within the media sending out right wing propaganda. we have just two left of center newspapers with I guess just the BBC putting over left of center arguments. Today so many children grow up with right wing films and newspapers and mags all pumping out the values of greed and self first. I even hear this in pubs today. today many on the left keep there heads down when in the company of so much right wing propaganda. you even find odd young people supporting left wing view without knowing they are doing so. both my children have been asked to look at both sides of the argument. no matter if its left or right. however, i do not hide my own views from them. but this is a most interesting subject I must say Ivan. but the real question is missing. that is how do we change peoples views of the left of center?

Stox 16

Posts: 1056
Join date: 2011-12-18
Age: 55
Location: Suffolk in the UK

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Ivan on Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:26 am

the BBC putting over left of centre arguments.
Not these days, it's been gagged by the Tories. Not even a mention on the Radio 4 news at 6pm yesterday of the welfare protests which closed roads around Oxford Circus in London, with disabled people demonstrating in wheelchairs. Yet only a few weeks ago we had to suffer endless bulletins full of rubbish about the Duke of Edinburgh walking 200 yards to church and sitting in the front of the car when he left hospital. The only balanced television news is on Channel 4 these days.

Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts: 3881
Join date: 2011-10-07
Location: On this forum or Twitter most of the time

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by witchfinder on Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:10 am

Reading the opening post by Ivan, I must admit that I do have reservations about political interference in our beloved BBC, let me explain.

There is a news story which has prominence on the BBC News website, it reads like this "NHS IN PERIL IF SHAKE-UP FAILS", and upon reading the article we find that this is the view of 50 General Practicioners ( The Royal College of General Practicioners has 42,000 members ).

Perhaps I am been paranoid, maybe my suspicions are unfounded, but I cannot help but think that the opinions of 50 out of 42,000 dosent seem like a representative opinion of a whole profession, and I wonder why someone thought this was news worthy.

witchfinder
Forum Founder

Posts: 649
Join date: 2011-10-07
Location: North York Moors

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by bobby on Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:12 am

You mustn't say how the bulk of the media is pro Fascism, Bluey will accuse you of being Paranoid as he did me.

bobby

Posts: 1760
Join date: 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by bobby on Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:15 am

witchy. Just as Herr Cameron is pushing through his NHS reforms based on the suport of 1 Doctor in Doncaster.

bobby

Posts: 1760
Join date: 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:01 pm

"Velvet Glove"? Where can we see this ephemeral object? The Tory Party are closet Fascisti to a man (or woman), and are frightened of the common people to the extent that they believe only firm control can prevent everyone from becoming (sob!) POOR.

oftenwrong
Sage

Posts: 8979
Join date: 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by blueturando on Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:53 am

You mustn't say how the bulk of the media is pro Fascism, Bluey will accuse you of being Paranoid as he did me

Sometimes I think some of you lot have been smoking the funny stuff, but I have just come to the conlcusion that you are all wannbee Woolfie Smiths.

IVAN....Your opening post is quite laughable if it wasn't a blatent disrespect for the millions who gave their lives to fight Hilter and his National Socialist German Workers' Party.....Yes you read is correctly, its all in the name
All that you stand for is Fascist.....The socialist ideal of total government control over the population, nationalised industry, the nanny state, not improving the quality of peoples lives, but bringing everyone down to a lower level. It's you lot who are quite scary....all fascists in the making!!!!

blueturando
Banned

Posts: 1203
Join date: 2011-11-21
Age: 47
Location: Jersey CI

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by blueturando on Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:02 am

Below is a little lesson in history for you. I hope you're pleased that in reality it's you are very much closer to the Nazi's than anything the tories stand for

In the spring of 1920 Hitler engineered the change of name to the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei - NSDAP), usually known as the Nazi party (or, less commonly, the National Socialist party). The name "Nazi" comes from the German pronunciation of the first two syllables of "Nati"onalsozialistiche (in contrast to Sozi, a term used for the Social Democrats). In the same period, under his influence the party adopted a modified swastika

blueturando
Banned

Posts: 1203
Join date: 2011-11-21
Age: 47
Location: Jersey CI

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by witchfinder on Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:52 am

blueturando

I remember clearly in the 1980s Shirley Williams resigning from the Labour Party to form the SDP, which by the way stands for the Social Democratic Party, which was then a new moderate left of centre alternative to what was seen by many as an increasingly millitant Labour Party.

I remember what Shirley Williams said "we fought facism of the right in the 1940s, and I will fight facism of the left in the 1980s".

Some people liken the political spectrum ( compare it ) to a circle, with the centreist beliefs at the front, and the far left and far right at the back of the circle - in other words communism is not a lot different to nationalism.

To compare todays British Labour Party with the likes of the German Nazi Party of the 1930s is, to put it mildly, a bit far fetched, and more than a touch unfair, and with respect is also a little bit insulting.

When it comes to politics, one thing has always impressed me about the British people, and that is that they have never embraced politics of the extreme, whether it be the Communist Party during the great depression, or the British Union of Facists, they have all been rejected.


witchfinder
Forum Founder

Posts: 649
Join date: 2011-10-07
Location: North York Moors

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by blueturando on Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:40 pm

To compare todays British Labour Party with the likes of the German Nazi Party of the 1930s is, to put it mildly, a bit far fetched, and more than a touch unfair, and with respect is also a little bit insulting

Then Witchfinder, you can understand how I would find Ivan's original post insulting too

blueturando
Banned

Posts: 1203
Join date: 2011-11-21
Age: 47
Location: Jersey CI

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:01 pm

A Fascist Speaks Out...
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.](wn.com)
" Mein Gott- I am cut to zer qvick ! - how dare zey say I am as bad as zat dumkopf Dawid Cameron ...!!!

Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts: 2836
Join date: 2011-10-07
Location: Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by trevorw2539 on Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:19 pm

Hitler had control of Germany and brooked no resistance. We can at least change our government.

trevorw2539

Posts: 1256
Join date: 2011-11-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Redflag on Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:47 pm

trevorw2539 wrote:Hitler had control of Germany and brooked no resistance. We can at least change our government.

Thank you trevorw2539 I just wonder when the UK are going to "WAKE UP" to the fact that the NASTY PARTY is back in power.

Redflag

Posts: 3226
Join date: 2011-12-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Ivan on Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:52 pm

We can at least change our government.
trevorw2539. LOL. We didn’t even choose this government! Over 6 million people who voted for the Lib Dems thought they were voting for a left-wing party.

Will we be able to change this government? First, it's locked itself into a five-year fixed-term parliament, without having any mandate to do so. Just like Cameron, Hitler sneaked into power even though his party didn't have a majority. Then there is the gerrymandering (the subject of another thread on this board), and there are also moves to reduce the finances of the only opposition party by altering the way in which trade union contributions are collected. Tax avoidance by the likes of Lord Ashcroft is being ignored as long as the avoiders make generous donations to the Tories, who will have far more income than any other party. And just as you can’t be elected President of the USA without having pots of money to mount an effective campaign, so it could become increasingly difficult to mount an electoral challenge to this government.

In the spring of 1920 Hitler engineered the change of name to the National Socialist German Workers' Party
blueturando. There are parties and governments all around the world which misuse words like 'people’s' and 'democracy' – just as Hitler misused the word 'socialist'. It’s strange that you didn’t mention how socialists and trade unionists were the first people Hitler locked up - doesn’t that drive a coach and horses through your rather weak argument? I also notice that you haven’t tried to rebut any of the specific points in my opening posting.

Hitler could not have survived in power without the help of big business in Germany. In the same way, the Tories are reliant on large companies for more than half their income. Repaying some of their donors is one part (the other being ideological dogma) of what the privatisation by stealth of the NHS is all about, something of which you disapprove.

It makes me laugh when Tories complain of “total government”. Thatcher was the most centralising Prime Minister in centuries, closing down councils that disagreed with her while emasculating the rest of them, and even imposing a national curriculum on schools. It was Thatcher who once arranged a raid on the BBC, banned the BBC from broadcasting Gerry Adams’ voice and stopped the free movement of people around the country just in case they were flying pickets. To cap it all, Thatcher was a personal friend of one of South America’s most notorious fascists – General Augusto Pinochet. Next you’ll be telling me that he was a socialist too, just like Hitler.

It was Labour who made homosexuality and abortion legal, and more recently same-sex marriages. It was the Tories who brought in Section 28, and one of whom, the crackpot Nadine Dorries, who is now trying to impose her Catholic dogma about abortion on the rest of society. It’s the Tories who want to do a spot of social engineering and reward marriage through the taxation system.

I have every respect for the people who died fighting fascism in the Second World War. They didn’t deserve to make such a sacrifice only for this country to slide into a form of velvet glove fascism, which is being so subtly orchestrated that people such as you aren’t even going to notice until it’s too late.

Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts: 3881
Join date: 2011-10-07
Location: On this forum or Twitter most of the time

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:25 pm

QUOTE a form of velvet glove fascism, which is being so subtly orchestrated that people such as you aren’t even going to notice until it’s too late

Indeed. It might be helpful if Ed Milliband's colleagues would make more frequent reference to the creeping fascism inherent in some policies of the Coalition Government.

‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ (or words to that effect)

oftenwrong
Sage

Posts: 8979
Join date: 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Redflag on Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:34 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:The most chilling thing of all about the above - which might normally be dismissed as an exaggerated partisan account - is that it sadly appears to be true. The time will come when we rue the day we ever let it all happen, and are grateful for the eventual deliverance of so many of our people from a cruel and vicious hate-fuelled Tory nightmare...

All I can say PH its going to be a rude awaking for the people that voted the NASTY PARTY into power and loads of regrets and red faces.

Redflag

Posts: 3226
Join date: 2011-12-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:10 pm

It is profoundly to be hoped that people who voted Tory in the last Election, did so out of conviction. How awful it would be if the whole thing was a mild oversight.

oftenwrong
Sage

Posts: 8979
Join date: 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Fred Worms on Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:25 pm

oftenwrong wrote:It is profoundly to be hoped that people who voted Tory in the last Election, did so out of conviction.  How awful it would be if the whole thing was a mild oversight.

After watching Panorama I would be ashamed to support any party with allegiance to Lord Ashcroft.I would check my wrist for my watch if he shook my hand. How on earth has he got away with it?

Fred Worms
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:42 pm

When the Tories sought power at the General Election of 2010, Cameron and his acolytes assured us that they would be the answer to Britain's problems. There were no caveats about any terrible obstacles to success which they might 'inherit', and therefore one is justified in asking why this excuse for failure should have been trotted out so frequently since they took the power they sought so desperately.

Surely we are not now looking at a shoddy opportunistic party which was prepared to say simply anything to become a government - and now they have the reins are clutching at any tale ( poor weather, Royal Weddings, Europe, the price of fish in Uzbekistan etc etc ) to conceal the fact that they cannot deliver what they promised... Evil or Very Mad

Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts: 2836
Join date: 2011-10-07
Location: Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by astra on Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:08 pm

Does anyone have any ideas as to the tax and legislation changes that will take effect on April 1st? (NO fools day excursions please Evil or Very Mad Mad )


I have a bad feeling in my gut that a "stealth Tax/Law" is creeping up on us as surely as an inward bound hellfire missile!

astra
Deceased

Posts: 1867
Join date: 2011-10-07
Location: North East England.

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by blueturando on Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:14 pm

After watching Panorama I would be ashamed to support any party with allegiance to Lord Ashcroft.I would check my wrist for my watch if he shook my hand. How on earth has he got away with it?.

What are you talking about??? The right wing BBC would never do this!!!!!

The sarcasm comes free with every post

blueturando
Banned

Posts: 1203
Join date: 2011-11-21
Age: 47
Location: Jersey CI

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by blueturando on Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:20 pm

blueturando. There are parties and governments all around the world which misuse words like 'people’s' and 'democracy' – just as Hitler misused the word 'socialist'. It’s strange that you didn’t mention how socialists and trade unionists were the first people Hitler locked up - doesn’t that drive a coach and horses through your rather weak argument? I also notice that you haven’t tried to rebut any of the specific points in my opening posting

No offense Ivan because I usually take great care in reading and trying to answer you posts, but on this occasion your post is not political but ridiculously offensive and nonsensical.
I could do the same and say things about Adolf Brown and the war criminal Blair....and how the only violent people in Britain are the militant left but to be honest I am better than that and I would prefer to answer serious politcal issues, not miguided fantasy posts


Last edited by blueturando on Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:26 am; edited 1 time in total

blueturando
Banned

Posts: 1203
Join date: 2011-11-21
Age: 47
Location: Jersey CI

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by sickchip on Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:18 am

I'm afraid you might all be very wrong!

I think you all need to understand that this is a three party coalition - con/lab/lib. The feigned tension/opposition between laboour and tory parties is all part of an elaborate drama played out to hoodwink the public into believing we are still a democracy. The main agenda of this 3-party coalition is to drive the masses down economically (reduce standards of living) in order for the minority to compete, and profit, in a global economy. Thatcher started it, new (not really) labour exacerbated it, and now bullingdon tories are hammering the final nails into a coffin containing social mobility, workers rights, etc. Labour are working hand in hand with the tories......don't be fooled by the scripted dramas between them.

Lowering living standards is by no means a solely british agenda.....it is the agenda of all western economies.

sickchip

Posts: 858
Join date: 2011-10-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by blueturando on Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:28 am

Sickchip.....Your post is probably closest to the truth on this whole forum

blueturando
Banned

Posts: 1203
Join date: 2011-11-21
Age: 47
Location: Jersey CI

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:46 am

Conspiracy or Cock-up?

Choose one.

oftenwrong
Sage

Posts: 8979
Join date: 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by witchfinder on Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:57 am

The Liberal / social democratic / left of centre ideology is often refered to as "progressive", and I happen to believe that its because people of this political persuasion are forward thinkers.

Martin Luther King - Gandhi - J F Kennedy - Tony Blair - Bill Clinton

Take for example the subject of gay people (homosexuals), during the Thatcher years several political attacks were made upon gay people including the highly offensive clause 28, for which the current Conservative leadership has appologized for.

Then came the Blair years, decades of campaigning for eqality in matters of wills, pensions, property, benefits and finances in relation to gay couples were over, the laws were changed much to the annoyance of many Conservatives.

The age of consent was equalized between hetrosexuals and homosexuals, civil partnerships were introduced, and again much to the annoyance and anger of many Conservatives.

Backwards - Forwards - your choice ? Conservative or Progressive - the future or the past - change the world or no change. ?

It has always been the Conservatives in my lifetime that have scoffed at trying to make things better, from equal pay for women, the minimum wage, racial equality, human rights or eqality for gay people, it always seems to be the left side of politics that push these things into the future, and the Conservatives try to stop change.

It isent so much that that the Conservatives are seen as Nazis ( I think that is harsh and unfair ) its simply that the Conservative way of thinking is often rather nasty, unfair and without compassion.



witchfinder
Forum Founder

Posts: 649
Join date: 2011-10-07
Location: North York Moors

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by bobby on Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:11 am

"its simply that the Conservative way of thinking is often rather nasty, unfair and without compassion".


Just like the Nazis then.

bobby

Posts: 1760
Join date: 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Fred Worms on Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:48 pm

bobby wrote:"its simply that the Conservative way of thinking is often rather nasty, unfair and without compassion".


Just like the Nazis then.

I would go along with that(not the Nazi bit though!). Margaret Thatcher who is revered by Tories and reviled by everyone else did indeed introduce the "I'm alright Jack society" . Regan and Thatcher were also guilty of freeing the shackles on the banks to enable them to go into investment backing and the risks that went with it(and the bonus culture which gives rewards for high risk strategies not based on future performance). We are now in a position where the top 0.1 % have all the wealth and use that to make more money rather than spend it on goods. In the past those creating the wealth ensured that the workforce received an approriate share of any profits as they would then go out and buy white goods etc.New labour were no less guilty(they out Toried the Tories in 1997) and encouraged banks in their risk taking. There will be no change-it is too late-as US Bankers will never allow regulation and like it or not they have the power.

Fred Worms
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by trevorw2539 on Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:06 pm

[quote="Ivan"]
We can at least change our government.
trevorw2539. LOL. We didn’t even choose this government! Over 6 million people who voted for the Lib Dems thought they were voting for a left-wing party.

Then change the system. First past the post, proportional representation, non-proportional, ranked voting etc. All have advantages and disadvantages, depending on your point of view. A multiplicity of parties represented in a parliament often ends in stalemate when controversial policies are necessary, and often in new elections. Look at the problems in Europe at the moment. Firm government is needed, whatever party is in power, and whatever the policies they believe to be right. As it happens, I believe the Lib.Dems. are putting a break on even more radical Tory policies. But that is only my opinion.
As for the length of a Parliament. What do you suggest? 12 months, 2 years, 3 years. Or do we throw out a Parliament because they are unpopular with the public.
We have the option of a 'vote of no confidence' in Parliament.

Of course we have the option of a dictatorship or military rule - or perhaps not

trevorw2539

Posts: 1256
Join date: 2011-11-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Redflag on Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:19 pm

Ivan wrote:
the BBC putting over left of centre arguments.
Not these days, it's been gagged by the Tories. Not even a mention on the Radio 4 news at 6pm yesterday of the welfare protests which closed roads around Oxford Circus in London, with disabled people demonstrating in wheelchairs. Yet only a few weeks ago we had to suffer endless bulletins full of rubbish about the Duke of Edinburgh walking 200 yards to church and sitting in the front of the car when he left hospital. The only balanced television news is on Channel 4 these days.

You seem too be right on the button of late Ivan and thank you for pointing these problems out, on two of them Im with you 110% the fact that the BBC is being gagged and on channel 4 you get a balanced and true facts news I have noticed that BBC QT is very much loaded for the betterment of Tory and Yellow Tory.

Redflag

Posts: 3226
Join date: 2011-12-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Ivan on Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:07 pm

Hello trevor. Hitler crept into power with proportional representation, and anyway, even a different voting system wouldn’t have prevented Clegg’s sell-out of virtually all Lib Dem policies. The concept of ‘firm government’ frightens me and smacks of dictatorship; competent and consensual government (for example, where changes are not introduced to the NHS without a mandate), led not just by millionaires and Eton toffs, would be an improvement. I don’t see much evidence of the Lib Dems “putting a brake” on the most vicious and right-wing government that I can remember.

The old arrangement was that a general election had to be called no later than five years after Parliament first meets following the previous poll, but it could be called earlier. A vote of no confidence in the government would have triggered an early election. Now, despite Cameron continually bleating that we should have an early election when Labour was in power, the hypocrite has introduced fixed five-year terms (without a mandate to do so), which means that even with a vote of no confidence we would not be guaranteed an election.

Redflag. Thanks for that. The BBC slightly redeemed itself last night with an excellent ‘Panorama’ programme revealing some of Lord Ashcroft’s activities:-
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I can only assume that the programme must have been scheduled some time ago and slipped through the censor’s net!

Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts: 3881
Join date: 2011-10-07
Location: On this forum or Twitter most of the time

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Redflag on Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:16 pm

Ivan wrote:Hello trevor. Hitler crept into power with proportional representation, and anyway, even a different voting system wouldn’t have prevented Clegg’s sell-out of virtually all Lib Dem policies. The concept of ‘firm government’ frightens me and smacks of dictatorship; competent and consensual government (for example, where changes are not introduced to the NHS without a mandate), led not just by millionaires and Eton toffs, would be an improvement. I don’t see much evidence of the Lib Dems “putting a brake” on the most vicious and right-wing government that I can remember.

The old arrangement was that a general election had to be called no later than five years after Parliament first meets following the previous poll, but it could be called earlier. A vote of no confidence in the government would have triggered an early election. Now, despite Cameron continually bleating that we should have an early election when Labour was in power, the hypocrite has introduced fixed five-year terms (without a mandate to do so), which means that even with a vote of no confidence we would not be guaranteed an election.

Redflag. Thanks for that. The BBC slightly redeemed itself last night with an excellent ‘Panorama’ programme revealing some of Lord Ashcroft’s activities:-
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I can only assume that the programme must have been scheduled some time ago and slipped through the censor’s net!

Thats fine Ivan I did see the panorama programme last night and came off especially to watch it, but have noticed that QT on a Thursday night is always 1 Tory MP and a Yellow Tory and one Labour MP and thats why Ed Miliband MUST get his finger out along with the shadow cabinet.

Redflag

Posts: 3226
Join date: 2011-12-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by trevorw2539 on Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:18 pm

Ivan. I agree with what you say. My point was that whatever system you have there are good and bad points, again depending upon your stance. There is no perfect system. Even the 5 year fixed term can be a poison chalice. To be forced to call an election at a time of low popularity in the polls could be disastrous. Whoever wins the next election will have the same conditions. I suspect that Borgia Campbell will find himself drinking out of his own chalice.

trevorw2539

Posts: 1256
Join date: 2011-11-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Redflag on Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:29 pm

bobby wrote:"its simply that the Conservative way of thinking is often rather nasty, unfair and without compassion".


Just like the Nazis then.

As far as I can see bobby NO DIFFERENCE there at all.

Redflag

Posts: 3226
Join date: 2011-12-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by bobby on Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:36 pm

I see Herr Cameron no longer thinks Edd Miliband is a hypocrite, he did at one time call him that, but withdrew it this lunchtime on PMQ's.
Herr Cameron has finaly got something right.

bobby

Posts: 1760
Join date: 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Phil Hornby on Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:47 pm

I think we must take seriously any charge of hypocrisy which Cameron asserts. He is, after all, pre-eminent in his expertise on the subject...

Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts: 2836
Join date: 2011-10-07
Location: Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by bobby on Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:16 pm

Ach Zo Ze retraction must haf bin anozer lie.

bobby

Posts: 1760
Join date: 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 24 1, 2, 3 ... 12 ... 24  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum