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Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

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Post by Ivan Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

In my opinion, the UK under our extreme right-wing government is rapidly degenerating into velvet glove fascism.

Like all fascists, Hitler was against trade unions and socialists. Similarly, Michael Gove vilified primary school teachers and dinner ladies, many of whom went on strike for the first time in their lives on 30 November last year, as “militants itching for a fight”. Gove has plans for military cadets in every school (Cameron Youth?) and a return to children sitting in rows reciting lists of kings and queens in history lessons, rather than learning to think. Hitler also realised how important history was to indoctrination when he ordered the mass burning of books. Tories close libraries.

Hitler made sure that he controlled the media. The Tories have cowed the BBC by threats of fragmentation and sharing the licence fee with others, such as Murdoch. The BBC, which was required to be impartial, has become just another mouthpiece for Tory propaganda. As soon as they came to power in 2010, the Tories instructed every minister to repeat over and over again the whopping lie that Labour, not Tory bankers, caused the global credit crisis. We have the repeated lie about everyone in the public sector getting “gold-plated pensions”, when the average is only £5,600 per annum. As Goebbels said: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." Cameron has proved over and over again that he’s a pathological liar.

Hitler divided and ruled the German people by scapegoating Jews and gypsies. The Tories are demonising those who receive benefits, one result of which is that disability hate crimes are increasing. Duncan Smith went on breakfast television on 27 May 2010 and made the chilling remark: "Work makes you free". That's an exact translation of the sign which used to hang over the entrances to concentration camps.

The Tories have plans to force 50,000 disabled youth to work for companies such as Sainsbury's and Tesco's unpaid. Cancer patients are being made to undergo work assessments while being treated with chemotherapy, and wounded soldiers are being sacked. (Osborne is willing to take money from the disabled and cancer patients, but not prepared to veto Hester's bonus from the largely state-owned RBS.)

The police are being trained to shoot people with rubber bullets and will be issued with water cannon, yet the Tories were so keen on helping Arab rebels in North Africa. Two unknown Scottish teenagers made a joke on 'Facebook' about organising riots, and they both received four years in jail. A prominent Tory TV presenter (and personal friend of Cameron) made a tasteless joke about murdering trade unionists on prime time television; nothing was done about it and the BBC continue to pay him £1 million a year of our money.

We don't have any concentration camps in the UK, but the principles are the same - propaganda, indoctrination, and divide and rule by demonising a section of the population. While Hitler gassed Jews, the Tories clearly don't care if benefit claimants starve to death. Even payments from the Social Fund, for those in the most desperate need, will no longer be available from job centres but will be at the 'discretion' of local councils, who will not have to ring-fence the money. All the ingredients of fascism are there, but it's just being handed out to us in a more genteel form than Hitler used - in velvet gloves.



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Post by Adele Carlyon Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:25 am

I didn't mean to sound too critical over the NHS, it's just that Blair opened some of it up to the markets which I thought was disgraceful. I'm happy that I'm a member again, I like Ed, I think he's capable of great things, but he needs to focus on the important things and avoid getting pulled into a constant shit fest with cameron. I just wish he's stop being so scared of supporting the unions. Jeez, it's what the party is supposed to beieve in. There are so many people out there who are working hard, gaining nothing and are natural labour voters...he needs to get them to vote, thats the problem.

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Post by Adele Carlyon Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:27 am

I've met Andy a couple of times at various labour party functions years ago. He's a nice chap and he's a tireless party worker. I take my hat off to him, he's a good egg!
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Post by Mel Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:50 pm

Sickchip, how wrong can you be? where on earth did you dig up that utterly incorrect information? Some Tory blogg no doubt.

Thatcher did to some extent de-regulate the banking sector. To de-regulate is simple, whereas to regulate is impossible without global agreement between banks and governments overseas. Brown attempted to obtain global banking agreement right from the start of his coming to office and not surprisingly failed as the banks are stronger than the goverments and resist regulation like the plague.

Now then sickchip, I can tell you from my own personal banking experience that Brown brought in the FSA to regulate and licence lenders and insurance companies to protect the public who had been ripped off by loan sharks and unscupulous insurance providers. Nothing whatsoever to do with de-regulation, exactly the opposite.
It makes my blood boil that the ignorant ill informed people get the wrong end of the stick, listen to lies and propaganda and are naive enough to actually believe it.

The Global Crisis came about because of global bank to bank lending. The FSA has no power to regulate nor de-regulate British banks let alone banks overseas. Getting all that so very wrong sickchip make the rest of your accusations against Labour look totally suspect. Read you political history properly again.
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Post by Adele Carlyon Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:53 pm

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Post by Phil Hornby Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:57 pm

However unpalatable it may have been to Labour Party fans, the Blair strategy was both necessary and effective to make an alternative party to the Tories electable. The nation simply didn't want Michael Foot -type socialism, to the extent that , even by 1997,it may even have elected another Major Government ( a thought too ghastly to contemplate).

Say what you like about Blair - he was a man who won three elections and thereby kept out the Tory menace and for that - if nothing else - we should be thankful. Look what happened when he departed : suddenly we were back to a weak and unconvincing Party, unable to see off the Tory threat. If the Labour Party wants to be taken seriously it has to fine a route which isn't reliant on hard-left politics and is attractive to sensible people who have a social conscience but are pragmatic in terms of what is possible in a world beset by financial crises.

There isn't a party in which I have total confidence, but, PLEASE, don't wish for anything which will let in Tories by the back door...


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Post by sickchip Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:11 pm

Mel,

When Gordon Brown redrew Britain’s financial regulatory architecture in 1997, he not only wrecked banking regulation but rigged the system for setting interest rates. King would be granted independence, in theory, but asked to set rates by taking a vote from a committee, most of whom were chosen by the Treasury. They went on to pump the British economy with the steroid of cheap debt. Brown loved all this. He changed the inflation target from RPI to CPI; he took a bow for all this ‘prosperity’, which we now know to have been a dent-fuelled illusion. Prosperity was the Teflon coating which covered New Labour. People felt rich because the asset bubble pushed their house price up. People then borrowed against the new value of their house and the phrase ‘equity withdrawal’ was commonplace. The very phrase means that people used their homes as a cash dispenser doling out borrowed money. The UK Treasury became Europe’s leader in debt concealment, with PFI deals and even Brown’s Enron-for-Africa scheme, the International Finance Facility: he’d worked out that if three countries share a pool of debt, it doesn’t show up on any of their national accounts due to a Eurostat loophole.

Gordon Brown loves to say that ‘it started in America’ but, in many ways, London was the source of the contagion. It was the Nevada of the globalized world, the most ineptly-regulated financial centre out there. It was Lehman’s London division that ran up the worst liabilities. It was AIG’s team in London that were its worst offenders. No wonder the Icelandics don’t want to repay their British debt: their maniac bankers were rampaging around London, not Rekjavik. Brown didn’t really care: his government took a 40 per cent cut in every bonus paid. Brown governed in coalition with the banks. Britain was a bankocracy.

....and my main point / source of disappointment in NEW labour, as previously stated, is:

[quote] Labour's cosying up to bankers being an example of them turning their backs on it's traditional voters. It displayed a tacit support of Tory ideology and thinking.
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Post by blueturando Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:49 pm

Sickchip is right.......

I don't mind Labour people slagging off the Tories and let's face it they deserve a kicking right now, but what doesn't sit well with me is the hypocrisy.
Yes Thatcher may have de-regulated the Banks, but then Brown had 13 years to bring in his policies....He didn't, so basically he was saying Thatcher was right in what she did...he kept her policy.

Labour did need to change to appeal to the electorate again, but Blair changed Labour into the New Conservative party. Only a few people on here who are the real socialists will openly admit this......the rest will keep turning a blind eye to the reality


Last edited by blueturando on Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Redflag Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:22 pm

Adele Carlyon wrote:I've met Andy a couple of times at various labour party functions years ago. He's a nice chap and he's a tireless party worker. I take my hat off to him, he's a good egg!

Hi AC glad to hear you are back in the party, you will know how involved you can get and how much change you can make from within i have something of the same problem and it has tore me a part for a few weeks and thanks to your earlier post I now know what I have to do.
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Post by Mel Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:11 pm

Sickchip and blue,

Of course blue is going to agree with you sickchip. Both you have made an incorrect anaylisis along with all the other brainwashed, the reason we have this disgusting lot in power today.

blue wrote "so basically he was saying Thatcher was right in what she did...he kept her policy." How many more times do I have to explain Brown had no power to regulate the freedom that Thatcher gave the banking sector. De-regulation is easy, regulation is not if you read my last post properly.
Sickchip even thought the FSA had the power to regulate or de-regulate.

I explained that Brown tried hard to acheive global regulation of the banks and you both ignorantly ignore that and carry on with your own distorted and incorrect views.

I do not wish to be rude but you are like the many who made the error of getting this wrong with help from the media/press and of course Clegg and Camer-con and beleiving it all on a whim. The fact is you do not want to accept what I say because you are bitter at what you THINK is the reality of what happend.

History will prove my point in time. Until then keep voting in the devil in disguise and suffer along with the rest of us non wealthy folk as a concequence.

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Post by sickchip Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:51 pm

Mel,

Even Gordon Brown recognised, and apologised, for his handling of financial regulations.


Gordon Brown has admitted he made a "big mistake" over the handling of financial regulation in the run-up to the banking crisis of 2008.

The former prime minister told a US conference he had not realised the "entanglements" of global institutions.

He said: "We set up the FSA [the City regulator] believing the problem would come from the failure of an individual institution. That was the big mistake.

"We didn't understand just how entangled things were."

Mr Brown said he had to "accept my responsibility" but added he was not the only one who had made mistakes.



The UK Financial Services Authority (FSA) was an independent non-governmental organisation, as well as being a company limited by guarantee. It regulated the financial industry in the UK and it was a quasi-judicial organisation. The board of the FSA was appointed directly by the Treasury.

The FSA’s head office was in Canary Wharf in London and they had another office in Edinburgh. The FSA is renowned for being the brain child of the then Chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown.

The UK FSA bore the same form as any other UK company. It was ‘limited by guarantee’ and carried a registered company number of 01920623. The company was formed and incorporated on the 7th June 1985 but the original name given to it at that time was “The Securities and Investments Board Ltd” (SIB) which was created by the UK Chancellor who is the one and only member of the company. The Chancellor handed to the FSA a list of specific statutory (backed by law) regulatory powers under what was then called the Financial Services Act 1986.


On 28th October 1997 the SIB changed its name to the Financial Services Authority (FSA UK) and boasted statutory powers afforded to it by the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000, which superceded the previous legislation and came into effect on 1 December 2001. As well as regulating all the insurance companies, financial advisers and banks the Financial Services Authority began regulating all mortgage business on 31 October 2004 and general insurance business (excluding travel insurance) intermediaries beginning on 14 January 2005.
The Financial Services and Markets Act imposed a total of 4 objectives on the FSA.

These were Statutory Objectives which means they were legally bound to do these four things which is an important point to note when you are looking at this from the standpoint of a consumer who has lost under the watchful eye and indeed full control of the Financial Services Authority. Statute Law has been created in the form of the Financial Services and Markets Act in order to empower the FSA with sufficient authority to carry out regulation of the industry.
The FSA’s four statutory objectives were as follows:

• Market Confidence: Maintaining confidence in the financial system
• Public Awareness: Promoting public understanding of the financial system;
• Consumer Protection: Securing the appropriate degree of protection for consumers; and
• Reduction of financial crime: Reducing the extent to which it is possible for a business carried on by a regulated person can be involved with financial crime.



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Post by oftenwrong Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:30 pm

Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned.

William Congreve (24 January 1670 – 19 January 1729)
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Post by Mel Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:45 pm

sickchip. I extract this part of your copied piece.

On 28th October 1997 the SIB changed its name to the Financial Services Authority (FSA UK) and boasted statutory powers afforded to it by the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000, which superceded the previous legislation and came into effect on 1 December 2001. As well as regulating all the insurance companies, financial advisers and banks the Financial Services Authority began regulating all mortgage business on 31 October 2004 and general insurance business (excluding travel insurance) intermediaries beginning on 14 January 2005.
The Financial Services and Markets Act imposed a total of 4 objectives on the FSA.

You have by producing this confirm what I had said. The FSA regulated by way of licence mortgage, insurance and lending activity. They were not able nor were they staffed enough to oversee every UK City banks dealings. That is what Brown was saying in fact. All that was and is a far cry from curbing bank to bank lending to eachother both here and overseas by global agreement.
When Lehman's was allowed to go bust by a stubborn George Bush, not only did the world markets feel the full force of market fear, but the banks lending to eachother suddenly dried up creating a credit crunch worl wide.

Blame Brown for that if you will.


Last edited by Mel on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Ivan Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:01 pm

An extract from the blog of a Twitter member who goes by the name of Farm Donkey:-

"Culturally we are unwilling or unable to oppose this tyranny. Not because we think it’s fair, and not because we are happy about it. But because we have a proud sense of responsibility and a strong moral compass. Teachers will say they don’t want to harm the prospects of their students, doctors will say any action they take will hurt patients. Private sector employees will not want to harm the companies they work for, and the media will tell us industrial action won’t work because this is the only way out of our economic mess. In response to that I would argue how quickly alternative ideas are generated when the wealth of the elite is threatened, as has been the case in the past...... If we do not do something, that is if we allow this pattern to continue, how many more rights will we lose? How much more will our real wages fall as corporate profits continue to rise? How long will we accept being second class citizens in a society that profits from our toil, before we demand the right to guaranteed reasonable living standards and the opportunity to affect our own futures? How long before we demand to be free and equal members of a democratic society again?"

For the full article:-
http://farmdonkey.blogspot.co.uk/

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Post by tlttf Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:00 pm

At last an open and honest report Ivan, very true, unfortunately if you believe Labour will achieve that your mistaken, Labour, Tory and Libdems all claim the centre ground at the ballot box, in reality they only look after themselves and the working man/woman are left the dregs. As long as politicians continue to dumb down education then the population begin to see it as a right not to work whilst the rich and political class abuse the system to suit themselves. I can't think of any modern day politician that went through the state school system.

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Post by Ivan Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:14 pm

I can't think of any modern day politician that went through the state school system..
Instead of thinking, try doing some research. You need look no further than Ed Miliband, who went to Haverstock Comprehensive School in North London.

About a third of all MPs went to fee-paying schools; in other words, two-thirds didn't, and Alan Johnson, David Davis and Vince Cable are three who come to mind. The proportion of Tory MPs who went to private schools is much higher than the percentage of Labour MPs.

Only about 7% of the general public have been to private schools.
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Post by tlttf Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:31 pm

Thanks for that Ivan, his brother also went there, your right I should have checked, nothing to do with his father of course, he did then go to Oxford and started his work as an advisor for Gordon Brown before being given a safe seat to contest.

No danger of him worrying about a job then?


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Post by oftenwrong Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:38 pm

Reward for loyalty is not confined to a single Party, nor particularly obvious within that one.
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Post by tlttf Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:45 pm

Which brings us nicely back to the "political class" OW, of any party. The modern politician has never worked in the "real world", never had to worry about going without, and never suffered any hardship at all. To allow people like that to set policies for the rest is as close to self flagellation that I want to go. Exclamation

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Post by Stox 16 Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:33 am

sickchip wrote:Redflag,

Brown failed to regulate the banks, went along with continued further deregulation, and exacerbated the problems by setting up the wholly inadequate, and farcical, FSA.

The real point about this though is Labour's cosying up to bankers being an example of them turning their backs on it's traditional voters. It displayed a tacit support of Tory ideology and thinking.

Sick chip

if Maggot had not de-regulated the banks in 1983 Brown would of had no need to re-regulated would he. The damage was well done before the FSA was even born. The fact is many pointed out that Maggots de-regulation in 1983 could only end in the crash. But after 20 years of my life saying this would happen it only took 30 years of being called mad for saying it. I can remember when Brown talked about the FSA in the first place. he was attacked morning, noon and night over even staying that banking need re-regulation. in fact the banks paid millions of pounds watering down what was left of the FSA with the Tory party working ever-time slowing in down in committee. . by the time it come into Law I do not think there was much left of it myself.

but know one has asked the Tory party why they talked the FSA bill into nothing or why they was against any banking re-regulation in the first place? no lets stick brown one and not the Tory party who tried to stop it
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Post by tlttf Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:55 am

Lets be honest Stox, when Tony and Gordon came into power they had such a majority that they could (and did) do pretty much what they pleased. They chose to water down regulation and suck up to the banks (Sir Fred Goodwin springs to mind). How any body can still sit around saying it's all Thatchers fault amazes me when Labour held an overwhelming majority while in control. Now if you were to be honest and accept that the lot of them are either incompetent or corrupt then you'll find me agreeing with you all the way, to simply blame one side is a very one sided and incorrect view, come on be honest. Now it's all coming out in the form of Barclays and others corrupting the interest rates to make £billions I suppose that's Thatchers fault as well. If so and if everything is her fault after all these years then the incompetence of a labour government shines through.

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Post by Mel Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:07 am

Thatcher deregulated banks to derive tax revenues lost by decimating industry. Major was left with no industrial base and had to rely upon invisible earnings for tax revenue instead of from a sound manufacturing base such as the Germans still have, just as Blair and Brown had to.

Global agreement with governments ans banks to agree to regulation was never going to happen. Browh tried for ten yrs to get this agreement, however the global banking industry were too powerful for global governments to obtain ant agreement.

Thank you Thatcher and Reagan together you ruined our economy and indeed the EU economy as a whole as we no see the outcome.
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Post by oftenwrong Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:06 am

The events of 2008 and subsequent near-chaos proved, if proof were needed, that Global Capitalism is more powerful than any National government.

What can be done about that? Money has always been printed by nations up to now, but is that still the best way to do it?
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Post by BobEllard Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:42 pm

Ivan wrote:An extract from the blog of a Twitter member who goes by the name of Farm Donkey:-

"Culturally we are unwilling or unable to oppose this tyranny. Not because we think it’s fair, and not because we are happy about it. But because we have a proud sense of responsibility and a strong moral compass. Teachers will say they don’t want to harm the prospects of their students, doctors will say any action they take will hurt patients. Private sector employees will not want to harm the companies they work for, and the media will tell us industrial action won’t work because this is the only way out of our economic mess. In response to that I would argue how quickly alternative ideas are generated when the wealth of the elite is threatened, as has been the case in the past...... If we do not do something, that is if we allow this pattern to continue, how many more rights will we lose? How much more will our real wages fall as corporate profits continue to rise? How long will we accept being second class citizens in a society that profits from our toil, before we demand the right to guaranteed reasonable living standards and the opportunity to affect our own futures? How long before we demand to be free and equal members of a democratic society again?"

For the full article:-
http://farmdonkey.blogspot.co.uk/


I was just about to post this very same article on here - I think it covers it very well.

We don't have Fascism yet thank the deity of your choice, but I do believe the seeds of it are present in the current politics. The attitude of the government and much of the media to the weak in society is worrying (I'm being understated), but there is a strong and growing grassroots opposition movement and I would urge anyone and everyone to get active in that, in order to stop this developing any further.

Things that have happened include.

A submission has been made to the Leveson enquiry about the bullying and incitement of hatred of vulnerable people by the press.

There is a case in progress at the moment where a judge is deciding whether to grant a judical review of the Work Capability Assessment

The British Medical Association has come out against the Work Capability Assessment

Oxfam have started campaigning vocally about poverty in Britain

John McDonnell MP has recently set up an Early Day Motion against ATOS and the Work Capability Assessment

There is Pats petition on the government Epeitions website against discrimination by the Government against sick and disabled people.


Those are just a few examples of the many things that are happening. Please all - get involved.
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Post by oftenwrong Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:37 pm

An unidentified civil servant in the DWP has suggested that in order to reduce the number of claimants in receipt of benefits, these should be channelled through Royal Bank, NatWest and Ulster Bank.
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Post by BobEllard Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:43 pm

oftenwrong wrote:An unidentified civil servant in the DWP has suggested that in order to reduce the number of claimants in receipt of benefits, these should be channelled through Royal Bank, NatWest and Ulster Bank.

Very Happy
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Post by Phil Hornby Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:31 am

The search for the 'God Particle' - undertaken via the Large Hadron Collider- must have been as tricky as finding a Tory MP who isn't a corrupt and seedy opportunist, more interested in their own pockets and power than the good of the Common Man... Shocked
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Post by oftenwrong Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:07 pm

Which maintains the old argument about which is the greater Lie - Scientific Truth or Political Truth.
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Post by astra Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:09 pm

http://www.housing.org.uk/policy/welfare_reform/bedroom_tax.aspx


I had heard about this proposed "Bedroom Tax", and now families in my area are getting letters to say that for each "extra" bedroom £12.50 will be deducted from benefits recieved. The most appropriate amount for people around me, is that £50.00 per fortnight will be taken from all benefits.

Some are being physically sick!

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north-east-news/evening-chronicle-news/2012/06/27/newcastle-mum-of-five-s-anguish-over-bedroom-tax-72703-31270942/

If you look at the comments at the bottom of the page, some people are as bad (mindless, illconsidered, sanctimonious and any other word which describes them!) as the politicos who thought this up!

If the Tories REALLY want to do something to HELP people trying to heat houses that are now much larger than needed, now that offspring have flown the nest (an ever decreasing phenomenon!) then it is up to them to provide the wherewithall for more social housing to be built.

Housing in this country has never been run on the models used on the continent of europe!
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Post by Mel Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:19 pm

(mindless, illconsidered, sanctimonious and any other word which describes them!)

Absolute shyte bags astra. The lot want stringing up as it is outrageous!!!!!
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Post by BobEllard Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:36 pm

Just when you think they can't get any worse - it does


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Post by astra Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:33 pm

http://latestnews.virginmedia.com/news/uk/2012/07/06/holland__barrett_drops_work_scheme


From virginmedia.com - I think this story is mentioned in dispatches earlier on in this thread.

It is grayling's (is that not the name of a tasteless fish?) comment that so expectedly unhinges me!

Employment minister Chris Grayling said: "It is a disgrace that anyone should seek to target a company that is trying to help young unemployed people in this way.

"The people involved in these protests have absolutely no idea of the damage they're doing to the job prospects of the next generation. I'm determined to stand up firmly against these protesters; what they're doing is totally unacceptable."


Nae Nae Laddie, it is thou an' those like yer that are unacceptable! Twisted Evil



What is needed is an apprenticeship, that presents a youngster with a living wage, a good base knowledge in the chosen work, and an accepted approval/qualification at the end of said apprentice time!


EDIT, an NVQ form as it stands, is a form of approval only



"
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Post by blueturando Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:19 pm

I had heard about this proposed "Bedroom Tax", and now families in my area are getting letters to say that for each "extra" bedroom £12.50 will be deducted from benefits recieved. The most appropriate amount for people around me, is that £50.00 per fortnight will be taken from all benefits.

Some are being physically sick!

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north-east-news/evening-chronicle-news/2012/06/27/newcastle-mum-of-five-s-anguish-over-bedroom-tax-72703-31270942/

If you look at the comments at the bottom of the page, some people are as bad (mindless, illconsidered, sanctimonious and any other word which describes them!) as the politicos who thought this up!

It seems ASTRA that you're underestimating the mood and the feeling of the majority of people in this country. When 'some' people stop thinking the welfare system is a lifestyle choice, a career option or a way to gain more than people who work and pay their taxes....then the mood may change. This is the comment that sums it up for me


Seems a fair enough ruling to me.

A single person living on their own does not need a 4 bedroom house. State support should offer no more than the absolute basic need. Why should I and other tax payers fund her lifestyle?

She should be grateful that a one bedroom property is funded for her! If she doesn't like it she has a few options; rent a 4 bedroom property privately at her own expense, buy a 4 bed property, or a more realistic option in her case - charge her son rent for the extra bedroom she wishes to keep on hold for him.

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Post by astra Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:29 pm

Right Bloo,
And you and your followers miss the point. put yourself in the place of someone who GENUINELY needs that help. you don't. Tony Robinson tried it this week and did not like it, neither did portillo many years ago! Hit the crooks and liars I have NO problem with that, but this one suit fits all is bad karma.

but then, what fool gave the "single person" a 4 bed house in the first place???

It has always been par for the course, that you pay your parents board money per week, but up to now, no Government has seen fit to dip their sticky fingers into that envelope!

IF, just IF this bunch of unlikeable people had said that "From march 2013, people under 25 will not get their benefits, that would leave a cushion for those presently recieving to move aside! Torys have NEVER believed in cushions, the chaise longue atop a charging bulldozer is their chosen comfort.


When my daughter left home Sad we went to the council and asked them for a smaller house. This in 1988! We were told, "OH youll need room for when visitors come!"

When at school, I laughed aloud when told that a "Window tax" was applied through the country, and this was explained to us as an act of despair - last resort. We are NOT at last resort and I hope this bunch of fools recieve all the humiliating press that they deserve.

YES, I am still in the same 5 bed house but I bought it!

The next slip of Kid Skin Parchment taken from the dusty big oak box in the corner will be about people like me with a few spare rooms, using up space. (I have NO doubt that a coedecile will be added so that the old couple in central london in that 750 room pile will not be affected.)


Last edited by astra on Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:47 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr)
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Post by blueturando Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:07 pm

but what fool gave the "single person" a 4 bed house in the first place???

I would imagine she had the house from when she was still married and her children were younger. It seems ex husband has custody of her daughter and her son is at Uni now.

I guess the Tories are dealing head on with the current situation...a situation that has become a bloated and very expensive system. The key to it all would be to have a major overhaul of the system and to get back to having a welfare system to do what it was designed to do in the first place. Secondly, and this is where I agree with you and most other people, is that the Government MUST undertake a new council house building program to replenish the housing stock lost in the 80's.
Councils must also be made to refurbish and fill empty properties, with those privately owned properties left empty and crumbling for more than 12 months compulsory purchased at 75% of market rate. We could start by using the £290 million the BOE fined Barclays over the Libor scandal

Blueturando for Housing Minister Smile

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Post by Mel Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:11 pm

How can anyone with an ounce of compassion side with these Tory tyrants evil measures?
Seems according to blue the "majority" have little or none.

Thanks to the Witches doctrine, we have the dog eat dog and "to hell with you co's i'm alright Jack" attitude in the UK.

We should now be known as the DK, the Divided Kingdom. Sad
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Post by astra Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:18 pm

Sorry, but 75% is too much. Make it 45% and that will make landlords pay attention to detail!

You know as well as I that Tory dogma is allergic to Council owned social housing. They see this as ground (sic) for the private landlord and developers to play in!

I believe, never having been and only picked up snipets, that council housing is not seen in Mediterranean Europe. Houses seldom owned by the people living in them and paying to an army of landlords.

The tennant pays his due rent on time - no choice in that or yer oot laddie!

The landlord has a sloshing trough of CASH to squirrel away

Same landlord thinks that paying taxes is only for the little people and people like him do not need to pay tax.
'appens in Greece, this lot want it to happen here now!
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Post by BobEllard Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:29 pm

Mel wrote:
Thanks to the Witches doctrine, we have the dog eat dog and "to hell with you co's i'm alright Jack" attitude in the UK.

"Dog eat dog" is ok as long as you don't mind being a dog.

But we as a species should be able to do better than that, we're supposed to have qualities like morality and compassion.

As for "I'm alright Jack" - thats OK I suppose as long as people are alright.

But anyone can fall ill, anyone can have a breakdown, anyone can loose the ability to earn.

And it can happen in the blink of an eyelid.

I don't wish that on anyone, but it can happen.

And that is when you, me, anyone, can suddenly find themselves in need of a safety net.

So to my mind it isn't a case of taxpayers and benefit claimants. People paying tax now can become benefit claimants, and people claiming benefits can get well and go on to earn and pay tax. As a great many do.

The vast majority of people claiming benefits (for all reasons) would rather be in a job and earning their own way and paying their own keep.

The reason that they claim benefits is because they have to.

It isn't them and us,. it is, to coin a phrase, that "We're all in this together", thats the way it should be.
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Post by astra Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:41 pm

Hello Bob,


I just wish this collective bunch of sods called a gubmint would put the same amount of energy into collecting unpaid taxes, whether legally unpaid or illegally unpaid!

The sods in Town Halls can sort out this mess of Benefits - if they WANTED (That is, had the DESIRE to) but this is a nice smoke screen for a uselees bunch of mountbanks. Thinking of medical things, what will they be tunnelling and squirrelling at in the NHS, as this seems to be the mother of all diversions!

is it me?
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Post by blueturando Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:41 pm

Thanks to the Witches doctrine, we have the dog eat dog and "to hell with you co's i'm alright Jack" attitude in the UK.

I agree Mel...This does seem to be how people are these days...and that goes for people who say F*CK the tax payer, I will get as much as I possibly can in state hand outs for as long as I can...or a women who wants the tax payer to fund a 4 bed house just for her, when there are plenty of families who could make much better use of this....Perhaps she's thinking 'Im alright Jack'?

You can come back and flip this onto the Bankers greed and company tax avoidance and I would agree with everything you say...they have the same attitude.

So how can we change our culture when personal greed is at the top of most peoples wish list at all levels of society

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Post by astra Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:58 pm

Blue

When, if ever were you in the council offices trying to sort out a difficulty?

Very good family friend moved into an old folks property, last DECEMBER (2011), he turned on the water, had a leaking water pipe and the roof fell in. - STILL AWAITING A DECISION ON THE REPAIR!!
How the hell do you think a council "operative" would react if you said I want a smaller house? Some councils may bite yer hand off, but in the main it is "do you like where you are?" so why change?


Any individual's "
personal greed!
pails to insignificance when compared to the company goings on.

AND, AND, iffin the Torys had put this in their manifesto, do you really think they would be in No 10 now?
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Post by Mel Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:07 pm

blue. Quote---"So how can we change our culture when personal greed is at the top of most peoples wish list at all levels of society"

Not a lot of chance of change now blue, unless of course we have some sort of catastrophe that pulls people together as they did during and for a time after WW11. Until that bitch forced things to change and condoned greed when we were a nation of love thy neighbour in so many respects.
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