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Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

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Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Ivan on Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

In my opinion, the UK under our extreme right-wing government is rapidly degenerating into velvet glove fascism.

Like all fascists, Hitler was against trade unions and socialists. Similarly, Michael Gove vilified primary school teachers and dinner ladies, many of whom went on strike for the first time in their lives on 30 November last year, as “militants itching for a fight”. Gove has plans for military cadets in every school (Cameron Youth?) and a return to children sitting in rows reciting lists of kings and queens in history lessons, rather than learning to think. Hitler also realised how important history was to indoctrination when he ordered the mass burning of books. Tories close libraries.

Hitler made sure that he controlled the media. The Tories have cowed the BBC by threats of fragmentation and sharing the licence fee with others, such as Murdoch. The BBC, which was required to be impartial, has become just another mouthpiece for Tory propaganda. As soon as they came to power in 2010, the Tories instructed every minister to repeat over and over again the whopping lie that Labour, not Tory bankers, caused the global credit crisis. We have the repeated lie about everyone in the public sector getting “gold-plated pensions”, when the average is only £5,600 per annum. As Goebbels said: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." Cameron has proved over and over again that he’s a pathological liar.

Hitler divided and ruled the German people by scapegoating Jews and gypsies. The Tories are demonising those who receive benefits, one result of which is that disability hate crimes are increasing. Duncan Smith went on breakfast television on 27 May 2010 and made the chilling remark: "Work makes you free". That's an exact translation of the sign which used to hang over the entrances to concentration camps.

The Tories have plans to force 50,000 disabled youth to work for companies such as Sainsbury's and Tesco's unpaid. Cancer patients are being made to undergo work assessments while being treated with chemotherapy, and wounded soldiers are being sacked. (Osborne is willing to take money from the disabled and cancer patients, but not prepared to veto Hester's bonus from the largely state-owned RBS.)

The police are being trained to shoot people with rubber bullets and will be issued with water cannon, yet the Tories were so keen on helping Arab rebels in North Africa. Two unknown Scottish teenagers made a joke on 'Facebook' about organising riots, and they both received four years in jail. A prominent Tory TV presenter (and personal friend of Cameron) made a tasteless joke about murdering trade unionists on prime time television; nothing was done about it and the BBC continue to pay him £1 million a year of our money.

We don't have any concentration camps in the UK, but the principles are the same - propaganda, indoctrination, and divide and rule by demonising a section of the population. While Hitler gassed Jews, the Tories clearly don't care if benefit claimants starve to death. Even payments from the Social Fund, for those in the most desperate need, will no longer be available from job centres but will be at the 'discretion' of local councils, who will not have to ring-fence the money. All the ingredients of fascism are there, but it's just being handed out to us in a more genteel form than Hitler used - in velvet gloves.



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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by boatlady on Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:35 am

Nooooooo!
headbang afraid Mad

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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:18 am

Politicians and commentators are queueing-up to frighten voters with various scare stories, and although Cameron and Osborne seem happy to regard the truth as a flexible commodity, there are several reasons why extending the life of this coalition Parliament appears a non-starter.

First, the Scottish referendum looks likely to be as close to a 50% split as it's possible to get - leaving half of the Scots dis-satisfied, and hardly a firm declaration of the Will of the People if it barely squeaks into a grudging vote for separation.

On the Westminster front, the Tories do not have a Commons majority, so a lot of other MPs would first need to be convinced that kicking the election tin-can further down the road was a good idea.

Boris and Farago would be in concert, accusing the Cameron team of being frit in running away from a planned election.

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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Redflag on Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:12 pm

The Referendum vote will be close OW, but I am hoping for a decisive NO vote of around 2% so that it shuts the mouths of the Yes voters. I do not know if you have heard about Jim Murphy doing a 100 streets in a 100 days Rent a Mob was (from the yes campaign) turning up and shouting him down throwing eggs and some real nasty name calling and trying to stop him talking about why we would be better off voting NO there is a 45 year old man due in court next week to answer charges regarding this.

If this is happening now what is it going to be like if there is a NO vote, this could cause Scotland to be the same as Northern Ireland this referendum has caused nothing but trouble from the start I just hope that Salmond and the SNP party are hapy in what they have achieved.
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Ivan on Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:58 pm

One of the former members of Cutting Edge was a strong supporter of John ‘the Vulcan’ Redwood and would regularly thrust extracts from the headbanger’s blog under our noses. Now it looks as if Redwood has completely lost the plot.

Businesses that speak out for Britain's EU membership will be punished

From an article by Ben Riley-Smith:-

John Redwood has vowed to punish businesses who speak out in favour of Britain remaining in the European Union. Mr Redwood, one the most senior Tory Eurosceptics, said companies who did not stay silent on the country's EU membership would pay a "very dear economic and financial price".

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Chief executives who decide to take a corporate position on the issue could lose their jobs while those campaigning against membership would ensure there were financial consequences, Mr Redwood warned. He demanded firms "keep out" of the debate and "beware" not to "meddle in politics".

Redwood added: "If they don't understand that now they will find those of us organising the 'get out' campaign will then make life difficult for them by making sure that their customers, their employees and their shareholders who disagree with them - and there will be a lot who disagree with them - will be expressing their views very forcefully and will be destablising their corporate governance.”


For the whole article:-
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The 2014 Tory conference has revealed that Theresa May wants to silence anyone she regards as ‘extremists’, and John Redwood is trying to stop pro-EU businessmen from expressing their opinions. I don’t suppose Redwood minds businessmen “meddling in politics” when they donate to the Tories or express public support for them.

The drift into fascism under this government is gathering pace. Frightening stuff. afraid
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by boatlady on Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:17 pm

It really is horrifying - slowly but surely it seems that dissent is becoming criminalised

I really don't know where this can end - it feels like something very new in this generation - I can't remember in my lifetime ever feeling this angry and this afraid of the government and fearful for the future
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:38 pm

A Tory Conference which can cheer proposals to reduce the assistance provided to the poorest section of society will presumably also cheer any and all proposals to shut down any and all opposition from whatever quarter.

We can't say we haven't received formal warning.
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Phil Hornby on Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:21 pm

Luckily we have an opposition to bring such crimes of government to the attention of the wider populace.

Or will that opposition just carry on 'keeping their powder dry'... ? Crying or Very sad
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by bobby on Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:33 pm

Well said Phil
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Redflag on Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:18 am

I hope that PH has got it wrong and the Labour party will  come out now swinging hard punches below the belt ones at the Tories and Ukip.   I did think they would have used this week of the Tory conference to lay into the Tory nasty cuts since Osborne has came out with more and continuing until 2017 for all in the public sector, which allows those in the private sector to be told by their greedy employers to shut the eff up as the public sector are not getting pay increases either.

The Tories really are looking after big business which quite a lot of them are pouring money into the general election fighting chest, let us hope that someone in the Labour party gets their finger out soon.
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Ivan on Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:54 pm


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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Redflag on Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:20 pm

Nice picture Ivan it really suits Ms May & Doris "The PR**K with a BRICK" (excuse my foul language) but after listening to what they had to say at conference (LIES ABUNDANT) nothing new there. They really must think tell a LIE often enough and the plebs will believe it.
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:37 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:Luckily we have an opposition to bring such crimes of government to the attention of the wider populace.

Or will that opposition just carry on 'keeping their powder dry'... ?     Crying or Very sad

Some people think that this guy had the answers.  (Shame about that Iraq dossier)

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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Phil Hornby on Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:13 pm

We don't want any blokes like him, eh...?

Far better to have 10 more years of opposition. Shocked
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by boatlady on Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:41 pm

As it goes - up until Iraq, I rather thought Blair's government were doing OK.
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:53 pm

Blair won a landslide victory over the John Major sleaze-government by moving the previously unelectable Labour government sharply to the Right. Mr Cameron hopes to maintain his position as PM in 2015, coincidentally, by moving his Party sharply to the Right.

Is it any wonder that the average young British elector thinks that politicians are "all the same"?
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by bobby on Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:17 pm

often wrong said: Blair won a landslide victory over the John Major sleaze-government by moving the previously unelectable Labour government sharply to the Right. Mr Cameron hopes to maintain his position as PM in 2015, coincidentally, by moving his Party sharply to the Right.
Only really relevant if they both start at the same point on the political spectrum .
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:31 pm

If asked to define the current "political spectrum" I would say that the Tories, Lib-Dems, Labour and UKIP are jostling each other for position right in the rather crowded middle of the bullseye.



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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Redflag on Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:09 am

boatlady wrote:As it goes - up until Iraq, I rather thought Blair's government were doing OK.

I must agree with boatlady on this one, people are great at pointing out the negatives of Tony Blairs gov't but none will point out the positives he brought to the UK, you all seem to forget that after 18 years of Tory neglect our NHS was on its last legs the waiting time for an operation was 18 MONTHS people where dying waiting for operations this is when Tony brought in the private health sector to stop people on the waiting list from dying, I would like to know just how many lives Tony saved by doing this. Wages where paid in BUTTONS and working conditions were not much better, myself I worked for a company doing 40 hours per week and was paid £70.00 per week before tax & NI I will leave you all to work out my hourly rate under a Thatcher Tory gov't. But it did not stop there Education was another that the Tories neglected and not just the teachers school buildings where left to go to wreck and ruin by the Tories.

So all those that are knocking Tony thnk on about the good he did as well as the Irac war which I will agee was a bad mistake but then again I think its is time we stopped been the USA poodle more so now that the TTIP treaty is in the pipe line between the EU & the USA.

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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Phil Hornby on Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:50 pm

"..So all those that are knocking Tony thnk on about the good he did...".

Oh yes.

In fact : yes, yes, yes, yes. What wouldn't Labour do for a proven election winner like that now...?
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Ivan on Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:29 pm

This is what 'offends' the Tories (especially those of their supporters who read 'The Daily Mail'), and which they will repeal if they get the chance:-

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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:41 pm

Nastiness thrives in Tory Britain but voters won’t put up with it any more

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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by boatlady on Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:40 pm

Just read that OW - I do hope he's right
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Ivan on Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:31 am

I’m unfortunate enough to have this clown, famous only for telling people to hoard petrol at home in jerry cans, as my local MP.   Evil or Very Mad

Hospitals and fire services to be run 'outside the public sector'

From an article by James Kirkup:-

Francis Maude, the cabinet office minister, says that as government spending falls, almost every duty of the state could be delivered by mutuals and other private companies. Hospitals and fire services will be run “outside the public sector” as the Conservatives dramatically shrink the state and cut costs.

He also warned that public sector jobs and wages would have to fall sharply to ensure the government lives within its means. George Osborne has set out plans to reduce public spending to its lowest level since the 1930s, something which senior Conservatives believe will require fundamental changes in the role and responsibilities of the state.

Maude, who is drawing up plans for £20 billion of Whitehall savings by 2020, said that with the exception of defence and policing, every function of the state could potentially be done outside the public sector. He suggested that even emergency services such as fire and rescue could be provided by companies outside the public sector.


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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." (Benito Mussolini)
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Ivan on Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:14 pm

Warning signs of fascism

This list was created by Laurence W. Britt and published in the magazine ‘Free Inquiry’ in 2003. He took these characteristics from Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Franco’s Spain, Salazar’s Portugal, Papadopoulos’s Greece, Pinochet’s Chile, and Suharto’s Indonesia.

- Rampant cronyism and corruption
- Power of corporations protected
- Power of labour suppressed or eliminated
- Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause
- Disdain for the importance of human rights
- A controlled mass media
- Obsession with national security
- Rampant sexism
- Obsession with crime and punishment
- Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism
- Supremacy of the military/avid militarism
- Religion and ruling elite tied together
- Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts
- Fraudulent elections

Much of that list sounds frighteningly familiar.... afraid
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:37 pm

QUOTE: "Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Franco’s Spain, Salazar’s Portugal, Papadopoulos’s Greece, Pinochet’s Chile, and Suharto’s Indonesia."

The majority of examples listed originated in the 1930s through to 1940s, so it may be hoped that we have learned and moved on. In any case British electors have usually shied away from extremist politics at the ballot box. Apathy is the only route by which fascists might actually find their way into a modern British government.
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Redflag on Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:54 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Nastiness thrives in Tory Britain but voters won’t put up with it any more

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The people of the UK know nothing about NASTINESS if the Tories get voted back into power in May 2015 then they will learn a very hard lesson OW, I tend to think it will be really be "EFFING NASTY" the last 5years will be nothing compared with what is to come it will cause the people of the UK to rise up and form a REVELUTION against the gov't.
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by boatlady on Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:31 pm

Warning signs of fascism


We're nearly there
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Redflag on Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:32 pm

If there is a Tory/Ukip coalition boatlady it will be a definite Fascism movement in the UK.
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by boatlady on Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:56 pm

The right wing seem to be doing well worldwide
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:34 pm

Greece looks as though it may prove an exception to that, boatlady.  If they vote to default on their £187 billion debt to the EU ....... ???

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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by boatlady on Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:40 pm

Hadn't really registered that - could be a breath of fresh air
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Redflag on Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:50 pm

I think it will be a breath of fresh air boatlady if Greece vote for the left wing socialist party now that will put the cat among the pidgeons.
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by JohnDTraynor on Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:49 pm

The extent to which any capitalist government will tend toward fascism is a balance between what the government thinks is needed to retain the control that capitalism desires and what the government can get away with. Given that elections can remove any government, much of its energy and that of its co-conspirators is spent on continuous propaganda to present its financial gangsterism as beneficial while relentlessly thrusting images of other (spurious) enemies into the publics' faces.

The description of a capitalist government as fascist is not strictly true as there are still elections, but any policies, changes to the law, restrictions of freedom, divergence of public funds and overseas military activity will all have the same intent for a capitalist government as they would for a fascist one: The preservation and enhancement of exploitation for the financial benefit of a few.
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Redflag on Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:30 pm

Hi John welcome to cutting edge

Good post I have seen what you are talking about could that be last Mondays "DODGY DOSSIER" was the Tories saying to the voting UK public look at what the Labour party woulkd do if you put them into power in May 2015. But they expect the voters of the UK to forget what they have done to the people of the UK in the past 5 years, making the low paid sick disabled and vulnerable people of the UK pay down the deficit that the B(W)ankers and hedge fund managers caused whille making sure they get off Scot free.
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by astradt1 on Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:42 pm

Two stories which seem to have slipped out today........

Remember the 'today's a good day to bury bad news' comment which had the Tories jumping up and down when they were last in opposition?.......

Conservatives to 'effectively end the right to strike' in the public sector, union leader says.

Public sector workers in key sectors such as health, education and transport will only be able to strike if a ballot is supported by 40 per cent of eligible union members, under plans unveiled by the Conservative Party.

Unions have hit back at the proposals, which would make it much more difficult for strikes to be called. Currently a strike is valid if it achieves a simple majority.

Further plans include ending a ban in using agency workers to cover strikers, imposing a three-month time limit after a ballot for strike action to take place and curbing picketing.

The measures proposed will form part of the party’s manifesto, to be implemented should they win this May's general election.
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To some this would seem reasonable given that health workers tend either currently have No Strike rules or just tend to put their patients first........BUT.......Then this story also appeared......


Government says health workers should not be paid extra for weekend shifts

Under current arrangements consultants only have to work Monday to Friday apart from in emergency care. Those who do weekend shifts are paid a 33 per cent bonus for every shift worked on top of their base salary. Nurses who work at weekend are paid up to double time on Sundays and 50 per cent extra for evening and Saturday work.

But ministers are warning that the “unacceptable” and “unsustainable” system cannot be maintained under Government proposals to provide full hospital services seven days a week.

In evidence to pay review bodies, that have been asked to arbitrate, ministers have warned that patient safety is being put at risk as the prohibitive cost of weekend staffing means most hospitals only operate a skeleton service. The evidence adds that the current contracts are no longer “fit for purpose” in the 21st century.

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Notice what it says about the current system being 'affordable'

I wonder which idea came first???????? scratch
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by boatlady on Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:54 pm

Seems a bit like an attack on civil liberties to me - and an outright assault on nurses' pay
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:50 pm

Just Cameron and Osborne nailing their colours to the mast. They have to try and stop traditional Tory support leaking away into Nigel's dreamscape.
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Redflag on Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:58 am

But what he has really done is put the backs up of those people that are in unions OW, Thatcher started this & Scamaeron & Osborne have decided to finish it.    If the Tories put that in there Manifesto no one in the |Unions both those in the private & public sector will be voting Tory.
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Ivan on Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:22 pm

JohnDTraynor wrote:-
The extent to which any capitalist government will tend toward fascism is a balance between what the government thinks is needed to retain the control that capitalism desires and what the government can get away with. Given that elections can remove any government, much of its energy and that of its co-conspirators is spent on continuous propaganda to present its financial gangsterism as beneficial while relentlessly thrusting images of other (spurious) enemies into the publics' faces.

The description of a capitalist government as fascist is not strictly true as there are still elections, but any policies, changes to the law, restrictions of freedom, divergence of public funds and overseas military activity will all have the same intent for a capitalist government as they would for a fascist one: The preservation and enhancement of exploitation for the financial benefit of a few.
Excellent post, full of concise insights.  thumbsup  thumbsup

Yes, we do still have elections, but the Tories are doing their best to remove as much of the state as they can from democratic accountability by handing it over to their corporate cronies. Francis Maude has made it clear that the Tories want almost every duty of the state to be outside the public sector:-

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The Tories have also tried to reduce the number of elected MPs (meaning fewer backbenchers to hold the administration to account), whilst increasing the number of unelected donors and cronies in the House of Lords. The switch to individual registration could well reduce the number of people voting, and Cameron has increased the amount a party can spend on electioneering, when the only party in a position to benefit from it is his own. And then there is the new gagging law.

If we accept Mussolini’s definition of fascism – the merger of state and corporate power – I would say that we’re well on the way towards it. We can also see that from some of the warning signs listed by Laurence W. Britt in an earlier post on this thread - rampant cronyism and corruption, power of corporations protected, identification of enemies/scapegoats, disdain for the importance of human rights, a controlled mass media, power of labour suppressed or eliminated.

With regard to that last point, we’ve had the Beecroft Report and the promise of ‘no fault dismissals’, which has been reiterated by Grant Shapps:-

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Now we have the threat of legislation to make it harder (some would say as good as impossible) for public sector workers to go on strike:-

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The Tories had no problem with democratic legitimacy when only 14.9% of people bothered to vote in the PCC elections in November 2012, but then that’s typical of their arrogance and hypocrisy:-

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Somebody posted on Twitter a couple of years ago that this government is like carbon monoxide poisoning; most people won’t realise what’s happening to them until it’s too late. And then there’s this advice to would-be fascists: “The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed.” That came from ‘Mein Kampf’ and was of course written by Adolf Hitler.
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:29 pm

Another Tory administration will certainly continue the unpleasant things which the Nation has suffered during the past four years, but they themselves are by no means certain of a continuance.

Provided every elector recognises the damage which has been done already, there will not be an opportunity to continue the onslaught. Vote Labour, because there is no sensible alternative.

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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

Post by Redflag on Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:03 pm

According to the Tories OW they only have cut by 40%, so that leaves another 60% to be cut and I need not tell you who will take that hit. Anybody that wants a open honest fair gov't for all should vote for Ed Miliband & the Labour party because if they vote Ukip you will get a Tory/Ukip coalition gov't (SHUDDER) if people in Scotland vote SNP they will get another Indepence referendum & a Tory gov't in Westminister.
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Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

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