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"Recession good for reducing child poverty"

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"Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by astradt1 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:31 am

On BBC Breakfast this morning they covered a report from the Institute of Fiscal Studies, commissioned by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation.

During the discussion Sally Copley of Save the Children explained how child poverty is defined and gave figures of take home pay below which poverty is defined.....

WHAT IS THE POVERTY LINE?
Single adult, no children: £165 per week.
Couple, no children: £248 per week.
Lone parent, 1 child: £215 per week.
Lone parent, 2 children: £264 per week.
Lone parent, 3 children: £314 per week.
Couple, 1 child: £297 per week.
Couple, 2 children: £347 per week.
Couple, 3 children: £396 per week.
Source: IFS, based on 2011
[center]

What was interesting was the government spokesman, and I didn't catch his name, comment that the recession was good at reducing child poverty in that as wages fell the median by which the line is drawn also goes down thereby lifting people out of poverty!!!!!!!!! Shocked

He also continued the government line that as people got in to work they would also be lifted out of poverty but he did not say where all these jobs were......... Rolling Eyes
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:52 am

Problems are being generated right now which will create an entire underclass of youngsters who may never find work in Britain. Around a million of the current unemployed are aged between 18 and 24.
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by Phil Hornby on Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:05 am

The peddling of such pessimistic doom and gloom - we really do need to take an entirely different view!

Yes- it could be far worse than described... Crying or Very sad
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by Phil Hornby on Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:31 am

And astradt should be banned from these boards for the use of that airbrushed avatar. It seeks to make Thatcher look much more attractive than in real life...
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by astra on Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:50 am

MR Hornby Sir,

You seem to have a "thing" about our Avtars!!
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:57 pm

We should be safe from Blue Faces, as they are sure to be ©
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by gator on Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:26 pm

The author is arguing semantics. If they don't like the concept that a particular word conveys, then just change the meaning of the word. It happens all the time in leftish circles. My question to this author is "Just how stupid do you have to be to believe crap like that?"
 
Or am I being too subtle?
 
 
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by astradt1 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:16 pm

"Just how stupid do you have to be to believe crap like that?"

Do you mean the ?governments stance about falling wages lifing people out of poverty?

then just change the meaning of the word.


Which word?

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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by astra on Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:01 pm

We should be safe from Blue Faces, as they are sure to be ©




OH NO THEY ARE NOT!!
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by astra on Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:05 pm

In 1998, during the Winter of that year, I witnessed a woman (read prolapse is us What a Face ) with her (?) 4 children waiting for a train. ALL the kids were running round in bare feet! in the snow! and there was no sign of a recession then.

I feel this is another smoke-screen to deflect attention away from the current debate in the Lords on the NHS reforms.
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by gator on Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:04 am

Which word? In this case, the word is "poverty" or more precisely the level at which people are considered to be in or near poverty. The whole point is that some people would rather deal with a problem by changing the parameters of the problem rather than actually solving said problem. Most politicians of all stripes fall into this category.
 
As another example, the word "gay" used to be such a happy little word.
 
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:13 am

Interesting to speculate what our situation would be now if, in 2008, the Banks had been allowed to go bust.
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by atv on Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:15 pm

The real reasons for so called poverty - poor education, broken families and an unwillingness to look for work in those areas of the UK that have work - continue unchanged and this is why so called poverty remains a problem in the UK.

Families supposedly on at least £1,000 a month AFTER housing costs.. thats not poverty!.. these families have an attitude problem and a budgeting problem. Many others have the same budget, though have to pay all their own housing costs. With them, bills are paid, family well fed, but can afford to have this probably because they avoid spending a fortune down at the pub, smoking, gambling, or going out to do the luxury things they cannot afford, it sickens me that families are regarded as being in poverty.

Poverty is also a relative term. My African and Indian friends are speechless when I show them our classification of "poverty".
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:50 pm

What a rich field of anecdote there is about "these people" who live in mansions at public expense, have flat-screen tellies, foreign holidays, new cars, fashionable clothes and no worries.

But they don't seem to have names and addresses.
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by keenobserver1 on Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:48 pm

atv wrote:The real reasons for so called poverty - poor education, broken families and an unwillingness to look for work in those areas of the UK that have work - continue unchanged and this is why so called poverty remains a problem in the UK.

Families supposedly on at least £1,000 a month AFTER housing costs.. thats not poverty!.. these families have an attitude problem and a budgeting problem. Many others have the same budget, though have to pay all their own housing costs. With them, bills are paid, family well fed, but can afford to have this probably because they avoid spending a fortune down at the pub, smoking, gambling, or going out to do the luxury things they cannot afford, it sickens me that families are regarded as being in poverty.

Poverty is also a relative term. My African and Indian friends are speechless when I show them our classification of "poverty".

ATV - there are three definitions for poverty that are in use today -

Absoloute Poverty - The lack of sufficent resources to keep the body and soul together.

Relative Poverty - income or resources in relation to the average. It is concerned with the absence of the material needs to participate fully in accepted daily life.

Social Exclusion Poverty - a shorthand label for what can happen when individuals or areas suffer from a combination of linked problems such as unemployment, poor skills, low incomes, poor housing, high crime environments, bad health and family breakdown"."

Absoloute Poverty is non-existant in the UK, and is generally found in third world countries where the measure is usually recorded as the individual having $1-$2 per day to live on.

Relative Poverty does exist in the UK, and is measured against the average income. It is an impossibillity to eradicate relative poverty due to the way it is measured unless everyone in the UK is paid the exact same amount!

Social Exclusion Poverty does exist in the UK, and could be eradicated but it would require massive investment from the government and the private sector and a willingness from individuals and communities to adapt to change.
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by Ivan on Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:25 pm

atv wrote:
Poverty is also a relative term. My African and Indian friends are speechless when I show them our classification of "poverty".
Your friends abroad aren't paying nearly £2,000 a year in Council Tax and don't have six-figure mortgages. They don't pay the highest train fares in the world like we do (some of which have increased by 10% today, not 5.9%, exposing yet another Osborne lie). I doubt if their utility bills compare with ours, and their food probably costs less.

Thanks to keenobserver1 for clarifying the issue. I believe the official definition of poverty in the UK is living on 60% or less of the average family income, and that would include someone working full-time on the minimum wage.

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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by blueturando on Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:26 pm

These friends abroad are probably more concerned with finding their next meal rather than worrying about such things as Mortgages or train journeys.

Poverty is relative for sure....These African and Indian friends probably do not have access to free healthcare or Education either

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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by blueturando on Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:30 pm

Scraping around for food or a roof over your head in many of the shanty towns and favelas around the world is a bit different to not being able to afford your fags or Sky Tv package for a few weeks or until you get you next giro

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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:52 pm

" until you get you next giro"

Giro? That's given your age away!
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by blueturando on Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:07 pm

Lol......Yes I guess it has

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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by Shirina on Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:34 pm

Scraping around for food or a roof over your head in many of the shanty towns and favelas around the world is a bit different to not being able to afford your fags or Sky Tv package for a few weeks or until you get you next giro
Comparing poverty between First and Third World nations is like comparing apples and oranges. There is a certain level of income required to live effectively in each particular nation. The richer or more technologically advanced your nation is, the more money you need to make in order to live in it. For instance, in a modern Western nation, shanty towns are practically non-existent because there are laws against vagrancy, laws concerning begging, beautification laws, zoning laws, and laws regarding access to public land. An quasi-permanent structure built on land which the inhabitant does not own will be quickly bulldozed. These laws presuppose that everyone earns enough money to either rent or own a permanent place of residence. If you cannot afford to do so, you are completely homeless. There is nowhere to really set up a shelter and expect to live there. It is also expected that you can purchase your food at a grocery store (as most people do not own enough land to feed themselves through farming). Buying food at a store requires paying higher prices due to things like packaging, advertising, and various taxes that cause the overall value of the food to be much higher than it should be due to the costs associated with shipping, packaging, marketing, and regulating the food.

It is also a given that a technological society requires a person to spend some of their money on technology. In America, for instance, life is incredibly difficult if one does not own a car - especially in rural areas - as our public transportation is limited to only larger cities. Yet cars are expensive to buy and expensive to maintain - and auto insurance (required in most states) isn't cheap, either. On top of that, health insurance in the US is extremely expensive, as well, yet it is needed to maintain good health. Having a computer with internet access, a cell phone (or land line), and a permanent mailing address is absolutely essential to finding a job. Climate control is essential in temperate zones, as well, and most Industrialized nations exist in a temperate zone. That means the climate can vary widely from hot summers to freezing winters, requiring energy expenditures on heating, at the very least, and electricity to power the technology needed to live in a modern world.

Few, if any, of the expenditures above are really needed if you're living in an impoverished nation, most of which exist in the tropics. Roads are few and far between, no one expects to get in touch with you through email, you don't apply for jobs by sending resumes via fax, there are no grocery stores nor is there much advertising that consumers have to pay for. On and on.

So comparing the two really doesn't say anything about the relative costs associated with existing in these two types of societies.
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by astra on Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:00 pm

These African and Indian friends probably do not have access to free healthcare or Education either



Happy New Year Bloo!


SO!, you get free healthcare and yer kids get free edjimikayshun!! Tell me, Where is this eutopia?? It ain't here in UK! Most of us on here have been paying all our lives, and are getting some cash back!! Albeit grudgingly from this gubmint and it's supporters!
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:32 pm

Stop me if you've heard this before - There is no such thing as a Free Lunch.

If you're lucky and live long enough, you may get something back from the taxes and Insurance premiums you have paid throughout a lifetime of working. Only because no government has yet thought of a way to popularise culling of the elderly.
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by keenobserver1 on Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:43 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Stop me if you've heard this before - There is no such thing as a Free Lunch.

If you're lucky and live long enough, you may get something back from the taxes and Insurance premiums you have paid throughout a lifetime of working. Only because no government has yet thought of a way to popularise culling of the elderly.

There could be a future for you in politics, if you sell it right it would be vote winner, every family out there must have at least one they can do with out. :affraid:
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by sickchip on Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:24 pm

Sometime in the future.....

Well I guess if THEY say it's alright to eat the grandparents and save our foodstamps, than it must be. All washed down with value coke! Right off to bed now I have to be up early to earn my state allowance.
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by Stox 16 on Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:19 am

astradt1 wrote:On BBC Breakfast this morning they covered a report from the Institute of Fiscal Studies, commissioned by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation.

During the discussion Sally Copley of Save the Children explained how child poverty is defined and gave figures of take home pay below which poverty is defined.....

WHAT IS THE POVERTY LINE?
Single adult, no children: £165 per week.
Couple, no children: £248 per week.
Lone parent, 1 child: £215 per week.
Lone parent, 2 children: £264 per week.
Lone parent, 3 children: £314 per week.
Couple, 1 child: £297 per week.
Couple, 2 children: £347 per week.
Couple, 3 children: £396 per week.
Source: IFS, based on 2011
[center]

What was interesting was the government spokesman, and I didn't catch his name, comment that the recession was good at reducing child poverty in that as wages fell the median by which the line is drawn also goes down thereby lifting people out of poverty!!!!!!!!! Shocked

He also continued the government line that as people got in to work they would also be lifted out of poverty but he did not say where all these jobs were......... Rolling Eyes

all parties have failed with this question of child poverty. Its high time that all parties agree this should be a thing of the past. Yet this government to say that any recession is good at reducing child poverty is quite clearly mad in my view. as no child should have to face this in the UK, my view, its quite shameful that this is even a political queston in some peoples minds. when its never been like that with me. children's welfare and wellbeing should worry everyone no matter who they are or what the economic situation is. as children do not ask to be born do they.
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:12 am

Every administration knows that caring for orphans and suchlike can be a very expensive duty. Providing support for e.g. single-parent families is cheaper by several degrees, so why is it so unpopular?

I blame the teachers for our general failure to recognise simple housekeeping economics.
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Re: "Recession good for reducing child poverty"

Post by Stox 16 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:51 am

oftenwrong wrote:Every administration knows that caring for orphans and suchlike can be a very expensive duty. Providing support for e.g. single-parent families is cheaper by several degrees, so why is it so unpopular?

I blame the teachers for our general failure to recognise simple housekeeping economics.

You know I have never fully understood the Tory views on this either ofternwrong. as it stands to reason that one single parent famiiles is cheaper than any other system they could dream up. I think it made unpopular by the nasty right wing rags like the Daily Mail.
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