Welcome to Cutting Edge. Guests can see and read the contents of most of the boards on this forum but need to become members to read all of them. Currently membership is instant, but new accounts may be deleted if not activated within fourteen days.

If you decide to join the forum, please open your welcome message for further details. New members are requested to introduce themselves on the appropriate thread on our welcome board.

Members may post messages and start threads, but it is essential that they read our posting rules and advice before doing so. If you have any immediate questions or queries, please post them on the suggestions board.

After posting at least ten messages, members are able to contact each other and the staff through our personal messaging system.

This forum is administrated by Ivan and moonbeam and moderated by boatlady and astradt1.

Thank you for visiting Cutting Edge.

Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Page 11 of 14 Previous  1 ... 7 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Ivan on Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:37 pm

First topic message reminder :

Bertrand Russell once said that “the immense majority of intellectually eminent men disbelieve in Christian religion”, and research appears to support that remark. Michael Shermer, in ‘How We Believe: The Search For God In An Age Of Science’, describes a large survey of randomly chosen Americans that he and his colleague Frank Sulloway carried out. Among their many results was the discovery that religiosity is negatively correlated with education (more highly educated people are less likely to be religious). Paul Bell, writing in ‘Mensa Magazine’ in 2002 told us: “Of 43 studies carried out since 1927 on the relationship between religious belief and one’s intelligence and/or educational level, all but four found an inverse connection. That is, the higher one’s intelligence or education level, the less one is likely to be religious or hold ‘beliefs’ of any kind.”

Satoshi Kanazawa, an evolutionary psychologist at the London School of Economics and Political Science, suggests that more intelligent people are more likely to adopt evolutionarily novel preferences and values. He said: "Humans are evolutionarily designed to be paranoid, and they believe in God because they are paranoid. This innate bias toward paranoia served humans well when self-preservation and protection of their families and clans depended on extreme vigilance to all potential dangers. So, more intelligent children are more likely to grow up to go against their natural evolutionary tendency to believe in God, and they become atheists.”

Data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (NLSAH) supports Kanazawa's hypothesis. Young adults who identify themselves as 'not at all religious' have an average IQ of 103 during adolescence, while those who identify themselves as 'very religious' have an average IQ of 97 during adolescence.

Shermer says that religiosity is also negatively correlated with interest in science and strongly with political liberalism. And the NLSAH data suggests that young adults who subjectively identify themselves as 'very liberal' have an average IQ of 106 during adolescence, while those who identify themselves as 'very conservative' have an average IQ of 95 during adolescence.

Does this mean that people with left-wing views are more intelligent than those on the right? I’ve long thought that those with the independence of mind to be unaffected by the constant brainwashing attempts of the right-wing media must have a critical faculty which those who succumb to Tory and Republican propaganda clearly lack. It also appears to be the conclusion of experts at Brock University in Ontario, Canada, who studied research comparing childhood intelligence with political views in adulthood in 15,000 people. They found that intelligence, rather than education, wealth or social status, decides whether people are narrow-minded or bigoted in later life. Their report has been published in a journal called ‘Psychological Science’ and states: “Those with lower cognitive abilities may gravitate towards socially conservative right-wing ideologies that maintain the status quo. That is because it provides a sense of order". The authors found a strong link between low intelligence both as a child and an adult, and right-wing politics.

Sources used, and for further details:-

Richard Dawkins, ‘The God Delusion’, Bantam Press, 2006, p.102-3

http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/48586-intelligent-people-more-likely-to-be-left-wing-atheists

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2012/02/04/labour-supporters-are-cleverer-than-tories-canadian-study-claims-115875-23734718/


avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 7100
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down


Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:53 pm

Again ......

One wonders which group Polyglide is claiming has lied? Are you claiming that ordinary god fearing Americans lied and pretended to be religious in order to somehow discredit their religion? Over decades at that.

Or perhaps you think the members of The National Academy of Sciences lied? Again and again over decades of research?

Or perhaps the PEW researchers falsified the data for either group, again and again for decades? Polyglide will have to explain what possible motives the National Academy of Sciences would have for lying? Or why conversely they haven't protested at being misrepresented by the Pew researchers, again over decades of research?

Then perhaps Polyglide can explain why multiple similar studies by UK universities showed similar results?

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:16 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
How you cannot understand the example I gave above is beyond me.

It could be any section of society with opposing views that you use,

As always, the word "correlation" is important it hasn't been shown that higher intelligence causes someone to be less religious.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:24 pm

All we can see from your post is that you don't even now grasp what the research is showing. One more time....In the large test groups researched the results were consistent over many decades of research,  and showed unequivocally that as education and intelligence in any group increased belief in God decreased. 

This makes no claim about any individual,  do try and grasp that.
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:02 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I have read several accounts of the different research that has taken place and over a proplonged period, however, most of it has been in America and the Western world and has been limited in several respects, there is also the matter of intelligence, who actually decides? An IQ can be obtained by a good memory and have little else going for it etc;

I would probably go along with the fact that the more ignorant one is the less religious one would be but ignorance has nothing to do with intelligence although I feel that many so called intelligent people are so full of themselves they have little time for religion or anything else.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:49 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                I have read several accounts of the different research that has taken place and over a proplonged period,

No you haven't, don't lie? All the research has been presented by others, and you have not offered a single piece of research, just made vague claims or insinuations that contrary research exists, then after enough time has gone you resort to claiming people have ignored this "evidence" which of course you've never presented.

Polyglide wrote:however, most of it has been in America and the Western world and has been limited in several respects,  

No it hasn't, on both counts. I'd offer more but want you to see how tedious it is when someone insists on offering unevidenced claims all the time. Besides Hitchen's razor applies, again.

Polyglide wrote:there is also the matter of intelligence, who actually decides? An IQ can be obtained by a good memory and have little else going for it etc;

Rubbish, it has little to do with memory and is heavily biased towards problem solving, so you've clearly never done an IQ test. I suggest you research it a little as you are completely wrong. LINK HERE

Polyglide wrote: I would probably go along with the fact that the more ignorant one is the less religious one would be

I'm sure you would, but decades of research of very large test groups from varied demographics shows the opposite, and your petulant and unevidenced opinion is utterly worthless, even if it weren't directly contradicted by all the evidence.  

Polyglide wrote:but ignorance has nothing to do with intelligence

In what sense? Of course they are related, the less intelligent a person is the less ability they will have to learn and educate themselves. Education and intelligence are not specifically the same thing if that is what you mean, but then the research doesn't claim otherwise so this is yet another straw man you've created. The research does however show multiple studies that indicate quite unequivocally and consistently that as education and or intelligence increases, then belief in God decreases in nearly all the test groups studied over many decades of research.

Polyglide wrote:although I feel that many so called intelligent people are so full of themselves they have little time for religion or anything else.

That is a rather stupid generalisation, that is entirely subjective, and of course you don't even attempt to evidence it. It is also rather ironic for anyone to show this level of hubris based on nothing more than their own opinion whilst attempting to derogate others without any evidence as "full of themselves". Hardly a shock to anyone who's read any of your posts that you would insult an entire demographic simply for not sharing your beliefs, rather than address the facts presented.

Not that any of that matters, as the personal attitude of intelligent people is irrelevant to this research, what is relevant is that multiple studies have shown repeatedly over decades of research, and amongst large test groups from multiple demographics that belief in God decreases in these groups as education and or intelligence increases. That aside your claim is rather petulant, and entirely subjective, and doesn't really require a response. However it has been obvious from the start that you are determined not to discuss this topic honestly, and prefer to sulk because the evidence is showing results you personally don't like. All in all not very impressive, and if you can't engage honestly with this topic without resorting to insult and derision then perhaps you'd best let it alone, as you're not really helping your own cause.


Last edited by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:00 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
Got to go, will explain all your mistakes at a later date.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:09 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                 Got to go, will explain all your mistakes at a later date.
   

You'd have to understand the evidence presented first, and grasp the difference between evidence and bare subjective claims, and your posts have shown repeatedly that you grasp neither. Any more than you are able to honestly address what the research is showing, preferring instead to make unevidenced and subjective insinuations, and make asinine and petulant derogations. You don't even grasp where intelligence and education differ, and your claims about what a IQ donates show quite clearly you have no clue what an IQ is or what it shows. I'd suggest you address those shortcomings first, before I point out for the umpteenth time the research is not mine, that I have based no personal claims on it, so any mistakes would not be mine, and that this is the main mistake you seem determined to repeat, and are unable (or unwilling?) to grasp.

Address the research evidence honestly and objectively, and we might have the start of a discussion, but so far all we have is others posting evidence, and you sulking, lying and distorting it because it doesn't show what you'd like it to.
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:37 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I perhaps gave the wrong impression when I said over a long period, I meant that the studies had been over a long period.

The validity of the IQ test is being disputed on several levels by scientists.

IQ tests are meaningless and too simplistic according to the latest scientists.

Yes I have taken an IQ test and there were many with a higher IQ that ultimately turned out to be useless in the real world having no common sense, a far more desirable quality.

So are atheists more intelligent? it depends on how one views intelligence and as stated above the present means of determining intelligence is under dispute by the latest scientific evidence.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:05 pm

As I said, it's perfectly clear you don't understand the research, or what IQ tests show. We're all well aware of how highly you rate your own "common sense" however your posts tell a very different story. 

Your post still doesn't address the research posted at all.

Polyglide wrote:IQ tests are meaningless and too simplistic according to the latest scientists.

No they're not, this is a lie.

Polyglide wrote:The validity of the IQ test is being disputed on several levels by scientists.

No they're not, this is also a lie.
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:23 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
You believe the scientists then read;

www.dailymail.co.uk./sciencetech/article-2250681
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:59 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                You believe the scientists then read;

                 www.dailymail.co.uk./sciencetech/article-2250681
           

Could you show where in the PEW research that I linked IQ is even mentioned? Or where any of the research studies claim that intelligence quotient is the only factor that measures intelligence? You do love a straw man argument fair play.

A far more balanced report of that research HERE. The Daily Heil should never be used as a sole source, as they lack journalistic integrity, let alone objectivity. Now back to topic at hand.

"The difference in religiosity between the American public and American scientists is profound,  persistent, and well documented.  The more accomplished the scientist, the greater the likelihood that he or she is a nonbeliever.

Pew research shows:

In America 33% of scientists overall admitted belief in a personal deity, with 41% claiming to be atheists.  The rest either didn't answer, didn't know, or believed in some form of higher power.  Contrast that against the 83% of the general population who claim to believe in God. With atheism at just 4%. In other words scientists are ten times more likely to be atheistic than non-scientists in one of the most religious countries in the developed world, but the research doesn't stop there.

This disparity which has persisted for over 80 years of polling increases drastically when it examines scientists working at elite research universities.  With 62% being atheistic and one only 23% believing in God. A degree of non-belief 15 times higher than the general public.

Sitting at the top tier of American science are the members of the National Academy of Sciences, where only the most accomplished scientists are elected as members. Here non-belief is 93% who claim to be atheists. This then is almost the exact opposite of the data for the general population.

I don't really think we need speculate too long on the level of intelligence required to be elected to the National Academy of Sciences compared to the average across the population."  

Not one mention of IQ used in that research Polyglide, care to address this? I'm guessing not. Rolling Eyes
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:33 am

Worth mentioning as well Polyglide's shamefully dishonest and blatant selection bias here. Multiple research studies of very large test groups spanning decades are summarily dismissed by him without a shred of evidence because he doesn't care for the results,  but one tabloid article about one piece of research is taken as unassailable because it feeds his prejudice against IQ tests. I'm guessing the IQ test he claims to have taken gave a dissapointing result to produce this level of angry bias.  

The fact that IQ tests weren't mentioned in the PEW research is also ignored of course.Not that this matters as he's also made the breathtakingly asinine claim that intelligent people don't believein God because "they're full of themselves". Who needs research when they have that kind of empty rhetoric to call on.
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:26 pm

A very expansive and erudite explanation of intelligence quotient tests HERE, gives a very thorough explanation of both their strengths and weaknesses, and is a well rounded objective piece.

Why do I get the feeling Polyglide won't even read it?
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:34 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
Then please tell me how you evaluate intelligence.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:09 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                Then please tell me how you evaluate intelligence.

Research  it yourself, you're the one who is making sweeping generalisations about how it is defined after all, not me. I even linked several up to date pieces of research on the topic, far more balanced and objective pieces than the hyperbole and rhetoric you grabbed from a Daily Mail headline. It seems you don't care to examine the fatcs objectively once you have got the headline you want.

I presented research that was salient to the thread topic, the PEW research made no mention of intelligence quotients anyway, another fact you've ignored as you simply don't like what the research shows.

Here it is again from my response to your claims about IQ testing.

"The difference in religiosity between the American public and American scientists is profound,  persistent, and well documented.  The more accomplished the scientist, the greater the likelihood that he or she is a nonbeliever.

Pew research shows:

In America 33% of scientists overall admitted belief in a personal deity, with 41% claiming to be atheists.  The rest either didn't answer, didn't know, or believed in some form of higher power.  Contrast that against the 83% of the general population who claim to believe in God. With atheism at just 4%. In other words scientists are ten times more likely to be atheistic than non-scientists in one of the most religious countries in the developed world, but the research doesn't stop there.

This disparity which has persisted for over 80 years of polling increases drastically when it examines scientists working at elite research universities.  With 62% being atheistic and one only 23% believing in God. A degree of non-belief 15 times higher than the general public.

Sitting at the top tier of American science are the members of the National Academy of Sciences, where only the most accomplished scientists are elected as members. Here non-belief is 93% who claim to be atheists. This then is almost the exact opposite of the data for the general population.

I don't really think we need speculate too long on the level of intelligence required to be elected to the National Academy of Sciences compared to the average across the population."  

Not one mention of IQ used in that research Polyglide, care to address this? I'm guessing not.

It seems I was correct, you really are not going to address this honestly are you?
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:57 pm

Dr, Shedldon,
Then the scientists you refer to are not the most intelligent then, they are just a group of people involved in science that is ultimately against creation, BIG DEAL.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:02 pm

Don't talk rubbish man. How many different ways are you going to lie about and misrepresent this research? If you can't address it honestly and intelligently let it alone.
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:08 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I have made my point very clear, ask all the peolpe who like to smoke if it shouild be made illegal, is like asking scientists if they believe in God.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:39 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                I have made my point very clear, ask all the peolpe who like to smoke if it shouild be made illegal, is like asking scientists if they believe in God.

You've not made any point as far as I can see, and your posts have been far from clear. I mean wtf has smoking to do with it? What the hell are you talking about? Are you saying the many people polled over decades have lied? Based on what evidence, other than you not liking the fact that their answers show that belief in a deity decreases as intelligence and education increase?

Or are you claiming the Pew research is falsified? You do understand their reputation is beyond repute?

Once again:

"The difference in religiosity between the American public and American scientists is profound, persistent, and well documented. The more accomplished the scientist, the greater the likelihood that he or she is a nonbeliever.

Pew research shows:

In America 33% of scientists overall admitted belief in a personal deity, with 41% claiming to be atheists. The rest either didn't answer, didn't know, or believed in some form of higher power. Contrast that against the 83% of the general population who claim to believe in God. With atheism at just 4%. In other words scientists are ten times more likely to be atheistic than non-scientists in one of the most religious countries in the developed world, but the research doesn't stop there.

This disparity which has persisted for over 80 years of polling increases drastically when it examines scientists working at elite research universities. With 62% being atheistic and one only 23% believing in God. A degree of non-belief 15 times higher than the general public.

Sitting at the top tier of American science are the members of the National Academy of Sciences, where only the most accomplished scientists are elected as members. Here non-belief is 93% who claim to be atheists. This then is almost the exact opposite of the data for the general population.

I don't really think we need speculate too long on the level of intelligence required to be elected to the National Academy of Sciences compared to the average across the population."

Not one mention of IQ used in that research Polyglide, care to address this? I'm guessing not.

IT SEEMS I WAS BANG ON HERE, AS HAVING MADE THIS STRAW MAN CLAIM YOU ARE NOW DETERMINED TO IGNORE YOUR ERROR.
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:51 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
The point is that the scientists are attempting to disprove God and therefore are atheists and would vote accordingly and those who smoke would all vote to keep smoking legal because they smoke, complicated I know.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:42 pm

Asinine more like. No scientists were trying to disprove god, nor would they,  any more than they'd waste research time and money trying to disprove mermaids.  

Like I said you tried to lie about IQ tests refuting the research, then when your gaff was exposed have refused to acknowledge it and are now pedalling more absurdly stupid lies. 

You clearly have no interest in discussing this research or the topic with any integrity, at this point you may as well let it alone as you're embarrassing yourself with these puerile lies.

What kind of imbecile suggests scientists,  including members of the National Academy of Sciences,  have lied for decades?

Indeed what possible motive.  If they're not atheists as they claim to be and you claim are lying?

You need help,  seriously, this level of delusion can't be healthy.
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:01 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
What planet are you on?

I have said that scientists who believe there is no God will vote accordingly, where on earth do you arrive at any other conclusion?



avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:52 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,  I have said that scientists who believe there is no God will vote accordingly, where on earth do you arrive at any other conclusion?

What vote? There is no vote what are you talking about? people were polled about their religious beliefs or lack thereof. So a scientist who doesn't believe in God will answer a poll question asking if they hold any religious beliefs by saying they do not in fact believe in God. You are rather stating the obvious don't you think?

However you claimed some nefarious duplicity had distorted the PEW research, so again are you suggesting someone has lied in their responses? Or that the reputable research company has falsified the answers?

Based on what exactly? So far your rather incomprehensible answer is that scientists you claim want to "disprove " God have lied and pretended to be atheists. If they are not really atheists why do you claim they are trying to disprove God? If they are really atheists then how does that not bear out the research findings? You're not making much sense, even by your posts standards.

Are we going to see you present any evidence at any point to support your whackadoo lunacy in this thread? Or will you use your usual tack of waffling complete guff and then pages down the road claim you already posted it and we've all ignored it?

"Sitting at the top tier of American science are the members of the National Academy of Sciences, where only the most accomplished scientists are elected as members. Here non-belief is 93% who claim to be atheists. This then is almost the exact opposite of the data for the general population. "

So are you claiming the members of the National Academy of Sciences have lied then? Or are you claiming they have been misrepresented? Why do you claim they have lied? Or conversely why have they not vented their outrage at being misrepresented? This is quality entertainment I'll give you that, any sane person would have simply have accepted the research and looked for explanations that gave a nuanced interpretation, only you could create this garbage storm.
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:57 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                The point is that the scientists are attempting to disprove God and therefore are atheists and would vote accordingly and those  who smoke would all vote to keep smoking legal because they smoke, complicated I know.  

So scientists who (you claim) want to disprove God have lied in the PEW research by pretending to be overwhelmingly atheists? So they're not atheists at all then, and are in fact theists....who-want-to-disprove-god? scratch

You sir are a genius..... Rolling Eyes

Or are you saying that as atheists they have simply said so in the PEW research? In which case one wonders why you are claiming this discredits the research? If the National Academy of Sciences are overwhelmingly atheists, and they clearly represent the most intelligent, and best educated scientists at the very top of their fields, and of course the general population of the US who are on the whole much less intelligent and less educated are overwhelmingly theist, then ......and this is a tricky one so pay attention......doesn't that rather show exactly what the PEW researchers claimed in their results, that as intelligence and education increases belief in a deity decreases?

Of course if this was one piece of research your sulk might look a little less transparent, but since it represents multiple studies of very large test groups over many decades, your tantrum is fooling no one I'm afraid.
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Sep 15, 2015 11:54 pm



Well worth a watch, I shan't insult anyone's intelligence by claiming to be entirely unbiased, but during the head to head stage of the debate in particular the debate seemed to leave Dinesh simply wallowing in Hitchen's wake.
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:34 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
Me thinks you confuse intelligence with qualifications, a big mistake.


avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:50 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
Me thinks you confuse intelligence with qualifications, a big mistake.

Methinks is one word, and methinks you're making up pathetic lies again, to avoid addressing the facts. Perhaps you now want to claim that the members of the National Academy of Sciences are not way above average intelligence? Alarmingly this would not be the most idiotic claim you've posted, even in just this thread.

Lets try again shall we?

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:57 pm
polyglide wrote: Dr, Sheldon,  The point is that the scientists are attempting to disprove God and therefore are atheists and would vote accordingly

So scientists who (you claim) want to disprove God have lied in the PEW research by pretending to be overwhelmingly atheists? So they're not atheists at all then, and are in fact theists....who-want-to-disprove-god?  scratch  

You sir are a genius.....  Rolling Eyes  sarcasm

Or are you saying that as atheists they have simply said so in the PEW research? In which case one wonders why you are claiming this discredits the research? If the National Academy of Sciences are overwhelmingly atheists, and they clearly represent the most intelligent, and best educated scientists at the very top of their fields, and of course the general population of the US who are on the whole much less intelligent and less educated are overwhelmingly theist, then ......and this is a tricky one so pay attention......doesn't that rather show exactly what the PEW researchers claimed in their results, that as intelligence and education increases belief in a deity decreases?
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:21 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
As I stated previously, a good education does not in itself indicate intelligence.

You can learn something by education by the parrot fashion method and not have the intelligence to use the information, you can have little education and yet the intelligence to do great things as has been proven time and time again.

You miss the point regarding scientists and others regarding the belief in God.

Scientists would not be attempting to prove evolution if they thought God was the creator, so it beggars belief that you could think they would vote for religion. Just as drunkard would not vote for prohibition.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:42 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon, As I stated previously, a good education does not in itself indicate intelligence.
And as I said previously no one has claimed otherwise so this is a straw man polemic you keep repeating, why?

(irrelevant repetition of a straw man polemic deleted)

Polyglide wrote:You miss the point regarding scientists and others regarding the belief in God.
No I didn't, your post was incomprehensible, did it even have a point beyond sullenly denying the evidence by making up lies about the motives of the thousands of people polled?

Polyglide wrote:Scientists would not be attempting to prove evolution if they thought God was the creator,
No scientists are trying to prove evolution, that's not how science works. Again are you really suggestiing that these scientists have lied and are not atheists? If so why are you claiming they want to disprove the existence of Good? Doesn't that strike you as a particularly asinine claim?

Polyglide wrote:so it beggars belief that you could think they would vote for religion.  Just as drunkard would not vote for prohibition.  
         
What vote, what on earth are you talking about? There has been no voting, it's not a contest, the research polled people about their religious beliefs or lack thereof.  What beggars belief here is the absurdly idiotic lengths you're going to to try and avoid honestly addressing the thread topic and the reserch studies posted. I have tried my best to beseech you to address this research honestly, but despite your claims to be a Christian it seems you're happy to make the most outrageously false claims instead, it's a shame as it renders discussion moot.
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:00 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
Then no one actually voted in favour or against, then how did one arrive at a conclusion, telepathy perhaps.

The post is about intelligence and I think it is impossible to devide ability and intelligence as a means of deciding any matter.

As an example, a person can have a very high IQ and have numerous letters after his/her name and in theory tell you all about how to build a house.

Yet the same person could not recognise a facing brick nor an engineering brick nor know what a bond was and totally unable to do anything practical.

Whilst one with a low IQ regarding the method of calculating intelligence could know how and do rather than know how to solve [and often by chance] puzzles etc;

The actual answer to the question is that no one knows because there is no fool proof way of calculating intelligence.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:38 pm

THERE WAS NO VOTE, EVER. That's not how research of this type is conducted.  You're projecting bias because you can't accept the findings of the research. 

Your analogies are silly as they simply use selection bias to show exceptions to a rule that actually isn't needed. The research involves multiple studies of tens of thousands of test subjects spanning decades in more than one country. Many of the studies don't use IQ at all, AS YOU'VE BEEN TOLD ALREADY? 

The question may not have an unequivocal yes or no answer, but that's hardly the point, as there is extensive research showing persistent trends over large timescales and test groups,  all indicating that as intelligence and education increases belief in a deity decreases. You have yet to honestly address any of that.
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:48 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
Taking a look at this matter from a different angle I can see where you are on this matter.

I agree that as a small number of scientists etc; learn more about evolution etc; they may be less comfortable with religion etc; this I would expect.

However, the numbers involved are minimal when compared with those who do not hold their views.

avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:54 pm

Complete nonsense you've simply made up. READ THE RESEARCH. It involves very large test groups (AS YOUVEBEEN TOLD), from a wide cross section of demographics. This research has nothing whatsoever to do with evolutionary science.

I have no position here. You have tried every 'angle' you can think of to deny the facts, the one that remains is to honestly address the research and its findings, try that.
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:02 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I agree that those you mention will not believe in God but as a whole compared with those that do, they are minimal.

Are you claiming that there are more none religious people than religious people?.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:10 pm

You either can't or won't read.  Hence your lie that I am claiming or have EVER claimed there are more none (sic) religious people than religious people. 

Get someone who is remotely literate to explain the research to you. I'm done,  as this is more painful than training a chimp to clip my toe nails.
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:11 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I feel I would prefer the intelligence of the chimp.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:24 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                I feel I would prefer the intelligence of the chimp.

I'm not remotely surprised. You have however done immeasurable harm to any argument that might attempt to refute the thread title claim. You have not however addressed any of the research cited in any honest way. Best you leave it alone now, seriously.
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:59 am

Dr, Sheldon,
I have read several accounts regarding this matter and ALL have reservations.

Many who have studied this matter have come to the conclusion that there are too many aspects that cannot be truly conclusive and the matter remains disputable.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:06 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                I have read several accounts regarding this matter
No you haven't, or you would quote and/or link some.

Polyglide wrote:and ALL have reservations.
No they don't, but by all means provide even one single shred of evidence for your claim.

Polyglide wrote: Many who have studied this matter have come to the conclusion that there are too many aspects that cannot be truly conclusive and the matter remains disputable.
No they don't, but again try and show a single shred of evidence for your dishonest claim as that might help.

You see how easy it is to make unevidenced claims. Now there is plenty of research into this topic, and every bit posted here shows that in huge test groups belief in God decreases as intelligence and education increase. This research is constant, over large demographics and test groups, and spans decades of research. You on the other hand simply make contrary claims without a single shred of evidence.

Hmm, how to decide who is right????
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:30 pm

Shirina wrote:
Does this mean that people with left-wing views are more intelligent than those on the right?
I hesitate to agree that the non-religious and left-leaning people are actually more intelligent, but I do feel that religiosity and conservatism appeals to a specific type of person. To put it bluntly, both appeal to those who really don't like to think. Those who do not think will score less well on IQ tests than those who do.

Isn't faith anathema to objective thinking, and vice versa? I don't mean religion per se, but specifically faith. Shirina's point would also seem to be borne out by the many theologians and religious apologists who have over the centuries warned against the perils to faith of thinking, and the pursuit of knowledge for it's own sake.
avatar
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD

Posts : 3164
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : Wales

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:17 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I have indeed read several different views regarding intelligence and the means of so determining and ALL have reservations.

If you are interested then just look them up for yourself as I have done.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 11 of 14 Previous  1 ... 7 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum