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Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

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Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Ivan on Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:37 pm

First topic message reminder :

Bertrand Russell once said that “the immense majority of intellectually eminent men disbelieve in Christian religion”, and research appears to support that remark. Michael Shermer, in ‘How We Believe: The Search For God In An Age Of Science’, describes a large survey of randomly chosen Americans that he and his colleague Frank Sulloway carried out. Among their many results was the discovery that religiosity is negatively correlated with education (more highly educated people are less likely to be religious). Paul Bell, writing in ‘Mensa Magazine’ in 2002 told us: “Of 43 studies carried out since 1927 on the relationship between religious belief and one’s intelligence and/or educational level, all but four found an inverse connection. That is, the higher one’s intelligence or education level, the less one is likely to be religious or hold ‘beliefs’ of any kind.”

Satoshi Kanazawa, an evolutionary psychologist at the London School of Economics and Political Science, suggests that more intelligent people are more likely to adopt evolutionarily novel preferences and values. He said: "Humans are evolutionarily designed to be paranoid, and they believe in God because they are paranoid. This innate bias toward paranoia served humans well when self-preservation and protection of their families and clans depended on extreme vigilance to all potential dangers. So, more intelligent children are more likely to grow up to go against their natural evolutionary tendency to believe in God, and they become atheists.”

Data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (NLSAH) supports Kanazawa's hypothesis. Young adults who identify themselves as 'not at all religious' have an average IQ of 103 during adolescence, while those who identify themselves as 'very religious' have an average IQ of 97 during adolescence.

Shermer says that religiosity is also negatively correlated with interest in science and strongly with political liberalism. And the NLSAH data suggests that young adults who subjectively identify themselves as 'very liberal' have an average IQ of 106 during adolescence, while those who identify themselves as 'very conservative' have an average IQ of 95 during adolescence.

Does this mean that people with left-wing views are more intelligent than those on the right? I’ve long thought that those with the independence of mind to be unaffected by the constant brainwashing attempts of the right-wing media must have a critical faculty which those who succumb to Tory and Republican propaganda clearly lack. It also appears to be the conclusion of experts at Brock University in Ontario, Canada, who studied research comparing childhood intelligence with political views in adulthood in 15,000 people. They found that intelligence, rather than education, wealth or social status, decides whether people are narrow-minded or bigoted in later life. Their report has been published in a journal called ‘Psychological Science’ and states: “Those with lower cognitive abilities may gravitate towards socially conservative right-wing ideologies that maintain the status quo. That is because it provides a sense of order". The authors found a strong link between low intelligence both as a child and an adult, and right-wing politics.

Sources used, and for further details:-

Richard Dawkins, ‘The God Delusion’, Bantam Press, 2006, p.102-3

http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/48586-intelligent-people-more-likely-to-be-left-wing-atheists

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2012/02/04/labour-supporters-are-cleverer-than-tories-canadian-study-claims-115875-23734718/


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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:17 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I have indeed read several different views regarding intelligence and the means of so determining and ALL have reservations.

If you are interested then just look them up for yourself as I have done.

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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:23 pm

No you haven't. You're lying, again. Put up or shut up I believe is the correct parlance.

Are you claiming that the elite scientific members elected to the National Academy of Sciences are not above average intelligence? Or that they're no better educated than the average?
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:50 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
Just because a person has attended school etc; and gained a formal education does not make anyone who has not less intelligent

The vast majority of things that have been of benifit to mankind have come from inventors, many of whom are not overly educated, we could very well do without knowing many things the philosophers spend their time doing for they offer nothing tangible towards the basics of the majority of peoples requirements for a better life.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:57 pm

That's not relevant, as no one has made the claims you're refuting. You seem still unable to understand the research and its conclusions. Are you claiming that the elite members elected to the National Academy of Sciences are not above average intelligence, and better educated than average?

Quite clearly they are both, and consistently when polled well over 90% claimed to be atheists.  The same poll found the reverse in the general population. This result has been replicated in multiple studies of large test groups over decades.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:13 pm

Dr Sheldon,
Intelligence is a mute subject.

It is relative to the time and subject, you cannot expect someone who has not been educated to understand the same as one who has.

This does not mean that the one who has received no education is not more intelligent than the one who has.

Put one of your elite into the jungle with a person fully familiar with the jungle and he would not have the education in that respect to survive, whilst the other would be fully at home etc;
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:57 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr Sheldon,
                Intelligence is a mute subject.
I'm afraid I don't understand what that means, what is a mute subject?

Polyglide wrote:It is relative to the time and subject, you cannot expect someone who has not been educated to understand the same as one who has. This does not mean that the one who has received no education is not more intelligent than the one who has.
I really can't fathom why you keep making this straw man point, as the research doesn't claim this or anything like it, what is more I have explained this a dozen times or more. Is it deliberate obfuscation? The research based on multiple studies polled a vast and diverse test groups, repeatedly over decades, the results were consistently the same, IN ANY GROUP where intelligence and education increased there was a direct and corresponding drop in belief in a deity. It's a consistent trend, citing imaginary, contradictory examples is meaningless. Why can't you grasp that this research isn't claiming there are NO intelligent theists, any more than it is claiming ALL atheists are intelligent?

Polyglide wrote:Put one of your elite into the jungle with a person fully familiar with the jungle and he would not have the education in that respect to survive, whilst the other would be fully at home etc;
Oh dear, you really still don't understand what the research is showing do you? It doesn't matter what form the intelligence takes or the education, what matters that in every group tested the results consistently showed that as education and intelligence increased belief in a deity decreased proportionately. The example I showed, The National Academy of  Sciences, is an elite scientific group that represents the best educated and most intelligent scientists, this means both their intelligence and education is way above the average, and atheism has remained consistent in the Academy at well over 90% over decades of research. Unlike the general population where theism is consistently polled at around 90% in the USA. This is one example, but numerous such studies have been cited in this thread, and relevant articles and sites linked, using differing demographics and test groups and they consistently show the same trend.

Subjectively selecting single imaginary examples that you claim contradict this is silly, as I have said throughout if you really don't feel you can honestly address this research perhaps you'd be better off leaving the discussion alone.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:23 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
It is a mute point because some of your replies leave me speechless.

The reason I feel the claim is invalid is because choose what you say the research is too limited.

I understand fully what the research claims but it is too limited and does not take into account other matters than the positions held by those who do not believe.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:39 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                It is a mute point because some of your replies leave me speechless.
I still don't understand what that means. Do you mean 'moot' by any chance?

Polyglide wrote:The reason I feel the claim is invalid is because choose what you say the research is too limited.
Except I have said nothing, merely posted the research, and what you 'FEEL' about the research is irrelevant, subjective, and un-evidenced. The research involves vast test groups, over decades of research, HOW IS THAT TOO LIMITED? Oh I know, it's too limited because no matter how many people are polled and no matter how consistent the results, or no matter over how long, it still shows that as education and intelligence increase, belief in a god decrease, and you don't like this and are unprepared to even acknowledge the research let alone address it honestly.

Are you even aware of how embarrassing your posts have been in this thread?

Polyglide wrote:  I understand fully what the research claims

No you don't, you have repeatedly posted that it is claiming that there are no intelligent theists, IT DOES NOT CLAIM THIS, you have repeatedly posted that the research claims all atheists are intelligent, IT DOES NOT CLAIM THIS, you have repeatedly posted that the research claims that all atheists are more intelligent than theists, IT DOES NOT CLAIM THIS. I'm afraid you don't know, and have no interest in-learning what the research shows.

Long story short, you're unable to fully understand what the research shows, and you're scared of what you think it shows, and you're misrepresenting what it shows. So one more time, the research from multiple studies, of very large test groups, spanning vast demographics, over decades of research, shows consistently that as intelligence and education increases, belief in a deity decreases.

Polyglide wrote: but it is too limited
No it's not, don't make up rubbish lies.

Polyglide wrote:and does not take into account other matters than the positions held by those who do not believe.

You mean like their education, and their intelligence? This level of moronic repetition of such an obviously dishonest claim must be deliberate, please tell me it's deliberate? Dear oh dear, it's liek you're sticking your fingers in your years (metaphorically) and going lah lah lah. Read the research ffs, and try and muster a response with an ounce of honesty and objectivity.

Or just leave it alone if the truth is too painful for you, but stop making up ludicrous lies that are embarrassing given we can all read.....
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:08 am

Dr, Sheldon,
No I mean mute, unable to speak through the lack of intelligent replies, it is a moot point because we are debating the matter.

No it is not liek sticking anything in my ears.

The question is debateble because there is no real grounds for saying that the manner in which intelligence is presently calculated is in fact correct, I have pointed out that many people with no education are more intelligent in many aspects than those who have and to say that those who believe in God or any religion are less intelligent is nonsense.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:25 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                No I mean mute, unable to speak through the  lack of intelligent replies, it is a moot point because we are debating the matter.
You think the topic is moot because it's being debated? That's another truly bizarre claim, you do know what moot means don't you? I'm happy to accede that your replies are entirely devoid of intelligent reasoning, or indeed any reasoning, and consist of almost childlike denial. Is English really your first language, no offence.

Polyglide wrote:No it is not liek sticking anything in my ears.
It was a metaphor.

Polyglide wrote: The question is debateble because there is no real grounds for saying that the manner in which intelligence is presently calculated is in fact correct,
As I said are you seriously claiming that members of The National Academy of Sciences are not way above average intelligence or better educated than the average? As I said your objections seem to mirror almost childlike denial of facts. Is it deliberate or do you genuinely not see how silly and irrelevant your objections are? Or that because IQ tests have limitations that testers are fully aware of that someone with an IQ of 150+ isn't above average intelligence? MENSA will be shocked at this news. The research is indicating trends based on percentage answers from diverse groups, why can't you understand this? Picking hypothetical exceptions to these trends is meaningless.

Polyglide wrote:I have pointed out that many people with no education are more intelligent in many aspects than those who have and
You claimed it, it may be true in some cases, but of course it has no bearing on the multiple research studies, as the groups tested were large demographics with a range of intelligence levels, polled over decades of research in mulltiple stuides. You still seem unable to grasp this, is it deliberate?

Polyglide wrote:to say that those who believe in God or any religion are less intelligent is nonsense.

I never said this, the research  clearly showed that: In 'ANY' demographic polled belief in a deity decreases as intelligence and education increase. These are trends that have been accurately researched and recorded among vast test groups over decades, the results are relentless unequivocal and consistent. Simply labelling such evidence 'nonsense' speaks for itself.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:34 pm

Polyglide wrote:
to say that those who believe in God or any religion are less intelligent is nonsense.

Lets try an analogy I know how many theists love those.

Imagine we're hypothetically testing an hypothesis that..
1. There are more black rabbits than white.
2. Balck rabbits tend to be bigger than white.
Now if research of large groups consistently returned a positive result over long research periods then it would correct to say that rabbits tend to be black, and that black rabbits tend to be bigger than white. It would not however be correct to say all rabbits are black, or that there are no white rabbits, or that all black rabbits are bigger than white rabbits, or that all white rabbits are smaller than black.

You have consistently denied the findings of the research by invoking claims that the research doesn't make. It's either dishonest obfuscation, or you can't understand the research and it's results. Which are of course that as education and intelligence increase belief in a deity and religiosity decrease.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:58 pm

"as education and intelligence increase belief in a deity and religiosity decrease."

This of course is referring to large groups, and not individuals, as it occurred to me that this might be where Polyglide's confusion is coming from.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:28 am

Dr, Sheldon,
I am not in the least confused.

My opinion is based on just how you evaluate intelligence.

The people you refer to as the most intelligent may be unable to do the most basic tasks that a person with no education can do without which the so called most intelligent could not survive.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:40 am

Then you are confused, as this post again shows. The research shows in multiple studies of large test groups over decades of research that belief in a deity falls as education and intelligence increase. 

I've tried in vain to make you understand that no single definition for intelligence was used, so if you understood that why are you wasting time by creating hypothetical and irrelevant exceptions that the research already accounted for by using large test groups, multiple studies, and varying demographics spanning decades of research?

You really don't understand at all I'm afraid. For instance I have repeatedly asked you if you think one test group, the National Academy of Sciences, is not obviously more intelligent and better educated  THAN AVERAGE. You don't answer and just keep making the same idiotic and irrelevant claim about how intelligence is defined.  Even at one point making the absurd claim that the members of the academy gave a subjective answer in order to disprove the existence of God.  If they were theists why would they do that,  and if atheists then they haven't lied have they?

Dear oh dear.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:47 am

Polyglide wrote:he people you refer to as the most intelligent may be unable to do the most basic tasks that a person with no education can do without which the so called most intelligent could not survive.

What people? The studies used test groups in the tens of thousands.  Your claim is a) pure assumption b) utterly irrelevant to the result and c) a highly dubious claim. 


You have no idea how laughable your posts in this thread are unfortunately. I did try several times to ask you to simply address the research honestly.  Instead of this idiotic denials and straw man objections.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:51 am

Dr, Sheldon,
I keep on regarding the definition of intelligence because that is the whole point, you claim that the more intelligent the less likely to be religious but you cannot explain just what intelligence is or how it can reasonably be defined.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:30 pm

The research does this, it examines different criteria for intelligence as ive explained to you meticulously and repeatedly.  Again I ask do you think the members of the National Academy of Sciences are above average Intelligenceand education? It's a simple enough question, and over 90% of them claimed not to believe in a deity,  this research provided the same results over decades of repetitions.  During that same period belief in God increased amongst the general populace and now mirrors the opposite statistic found repeatedly amongst the members of the National Academy of Sciences.  

This was far from the only study.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:36 am

Dr, Sheldon,
I am afraid your definition of intelligence and mine are at odds.

Intelligence to me involves the ability to do, rather than think, adaptability, full range of knowlege rather than constricted and above all the common sense to apply that which one has at ones disposal.

There will be thousands who meet my criteria that are not in the bracket you consider the most intelligent.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:45 pm

polyglide wrote:
Dr, Sheldon, I am afraid your definition of intelligence and mine are at odds.

I haven't defined intelligence, ever. The dictionary does this, and the research uses multiple criteria. Why do you keep posting this lie that I am using a subjective opinion on what constitutes intelligence, and that the research is limiting it's criteria to a narrow definition when it is a complete lie?

Just for clarity I'll happily accept the dictionaries definition:
intelligence
noun
1. the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.

Do you have a problem with the dictionary definition, again?

Polyglide wrote:
Intelligence to me involves the ability to do, rather than think, adaptability, full range of knowlege rather than constricted and above all the common sense to apply that which one has at ones disposal.
You don't get to personally redefine words, intelligence as the dictionary shows indicates a propensity to both 'think and do', and the research didn't use one narrow definition of intelligence, as has been repeatedly shown with quotes of it and links to it, so why do you keep lying? Your dishonest lies are no more evident than in your refusal to answer my question:

Do you think the members of the National Academy of Sciences are more intelligent, and better educated, than the average? We all can see why you won't answer it, but I'll extend it as you keep lying and claiming the multiple studies use a narrow criteria to define intelligence.

1. Do you think members of the National Academy of Sciences are more intelligent, and better educated, than the average?
2. Do you think members of the National Academy of Sciences superior intelligence to the average also means they possess better than average abilities to do as well as think?

btw it's knowledge, not knowlege (sic) and it's one's disposal, not ones disposal.

Polyglide wrote:
There will be thousands who meet my criteria that are not in the bracket you consider the most intelligent.
No there won't, and for the last time it's not 'MY' criteria you clown. You're simply making up yet another un-evidenced lie, as you simply can't accept the facts that the evidence indicate. Which is:

That research examining test groups in the tens of thousands, over decades of research, in multiple studies, and in different countries, shows consistently that belief in a deity decreases as intelligence and education increase. What's more the research showed the link was directly proportional and therefore in all likelihood was a causal link. The more educated and intelligent the group the less people in the group believed in a deity. The groups tested were too large, and the studies too many and too varied for your hypothetical objections to mean anything, even if you could evidence your claims.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:56 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I know who I would rather have to build a house, a brick layer or one of the intelligent people you talk about or an inventor capable of creating all the items that have proved of benifit to mankind until God takes over.

I have a very different idea of what intelligence is and it is not what is defined by IQ tests.

Of course the people you mention have had a better education than most but that does not make them more intelligent just more learned.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:01 pm

This lie again?  IQ tests were just one criteria in one study. Many other criteria were used spanning decades. Your analogies are imbecilic and I really can dumb this down for you any more I'm afraid. It's clear you don't understand the research and haven't the integrity to address it honestly. I trust anyone else unfortunate enough to be reading this is as tired of your idiotic and tedious denials as I am by now. Just let it alone.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:06 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I would not dream of calling someone a liar if I was you, I would look in the dictionary for the meaning of difference of opinion.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:07 pm

Polyglide wrote:Of course the people you mention have had a better education than most but that does not make them more intelligent just more learned
 Are you seriously claiming that scientists whose work has seen them elected to the highest level their profession allows are not above average intelligence? Just how is it possible in your opinion to absorb an education way above the average if they're not above average intelligence?


You're being extremely silly here. 
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:10 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                I would not dream of calling someone a liar if I was you, I would look in the dictionary for the meaning of difference of opinion.
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt,  as your repetition is either rank dishonesty or breathtaking stupidity, but if you insist it's the latter so be it. There is only so many times I can point out that multiple studies over decades used multiple criteria and only one of which was IQ. If you ignore this repeatedly what would you call that?
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:10 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I can assure you I understand exactly what you mean regarding education.

However, where I beg to differ is on the point of opporutnity.

The only way in which to determine the relative intelligence of a nation is if the whole nation is subject to exactly the same terms, I feel that if everyone had the same chances then you could then realistically make comparisons.

You nor anyone else can know for sure the latent qualities of those who have never had the opportunities to prove their intelligence.

Another matter being that not all those with intelligence above normal are athiests and to prove the fact that education denies faith then one would have thought all in a certain educational standard would all be of the same opinion and they are not.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:49 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                I can assure you I understand exactly what you mean regarding education. However, where I beg to differ is on the point of opporutnity.
I've no idea what you're referring to? Or what possible relevance it has to the research studies that were shown.

Polyglide wrote:The only way in which to determine the relative intelligence of a nation is if the whole nation is subject to exactly the same terms, I feel that if everyone had the same chances then you could  then realistically make comparisons.


You're spectacularly missing the point yet again, the point is not what potential the people polled had, the point is that the reserach has showed repeatedly over decades of research in multiple studies that when intelligence and education increased, belief in a deity decreased proportionately. You are simply making un-evdienced and subjective assumptions to deny that this is what was shown, but nonetheless the research is expansive, far reaching, with huge test groups used over decades in multiple studies and in several countries, in almost every study the results showed the same trend away from belief in deity in proportion to increased intelligence and education.  

Polyglide wrote:You nor anyone else can know for sure the latent qualities of those who have never had the opportunities to prove their intelligence.
Irrelevant, the research made no claims about people's potential, and you can't know it either incidentally, this is just another silly subjective assumption to try and deny what we do know from the research.  

Polyglide wrote: Another matter being that not all those with intelligence above normal are athiests.
How many times must you be told that the research doesn't claim, and has never claimed, this??

Polyglide wrote: and to prove the fact that education denies faith
Oh ffs, you really can't read can you, the research doesn't claim this either.

Polyglide wrote: then one would have thought all in a certain  educational standard would all be of the same opinion and they are not
I'm wasting my time, you simply can't understand this at all can you. The research compared people's intelligence and education and polled them about their religious beliefs, in nearly all the groups tested the percentage of that group that believed in a deity fell as the intelligence and education of the group increased. It's saying that intelligence and education will destroy a persons faith after a certain point. This is a very simply concept why are you unable to grasp it? Or is this silly denial simply another example of your 100% certainty in action? Very impressive I must say.  sarcasm
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:15 am

Dr, Sheldon,
After cosidering all the implications and your interpretations regarding intelligence and religion along with all the research undertaken it would appear that the more education one is subjected to confuses the brain to the extent that man thinks he is more important than he realy is and therefore cannot accept that there is something greater.

This I would go along with.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:19 pm

So more bombast and preaching that has no relevance to the topic. Have you exhausted your asinine rhetoric and denials then?

I have interpreted nothing, another lie you seem to enjoy repeating. The research and its results are not remotely influenced by me. Deny it all you want, you're simply making yourself appear more and more deluded.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by marcolucco on Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:42 pm

DSC, I think I have very much the same view point as you but I don't possess the infinite reserves of patience you seem to have for casting pearls before swine, as the Good Book says. I thought this was a place where people might discuss God, his shoes, his ability to procreate, his brother-in-law the Paraclete, his confused offspring Jesus and the marvels of parthenogenesis; time permitting one would, I imagined, visit the 7th century cave where God mysteriously and, ipso facto, wondrously, through angelic agencies, communicated to an illiterate camel trader instructions that would allow idiots, 14 centuries later, to blow themselves up in the expectation of free sex. I see that another prophet, one polyglide, who shares the literary skills of the earlier one, is in deep and perpetual and private exchange of what appears to be learned opinion. I apologise for my thoughtless intrusion. Pax tecum - and good luck in your enterprise. I will tip toe off.

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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:10 pm

Sorry to see you leave so soon. It's true the level of apologetics offers very little I'm afraid. As you rightly point out what is mainly tested is one's patience.  I wish you luck and hope you find an edifying debate where the apologetics offers a little more erudition.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:35 am

Dr, Sheldon,
There is no evidence whatsoever to assume that any section of society has a more abundance of intelligence than others regarding ones belief or for that matter any other section of society.

Exactly the same applies to other abilities such as sport etc;
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:03 pm

It's not being assumed, as for many groups and organisations the criteria for being allowed in is above average intelligence. So your claim is ludicrous. It's laughable to suggest that people with doctorates or who are members of MENSA or The National Academy of Sciences are not above average intelligence.  

The research used large test groups in multiple studies in different countries over decades and the trend in almost every case was a decrease in belief in a deity as intelligence and education increased. 

Simply stamping your foot and denying this isn't going to achieve anything. 

Sport or utterly irrelevant, so I've no idea why you want to obfuscate even more than you have already done, other than to avid honestly addressing the research and its results of course. What is it you hope to achieve with these asinine claims anyway? The research is already widely accepted as valid even amongst theists and theologians.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:11 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
There are 39 things that determine intelligence and not one test can cover all those.

I agree that all the tests over a prolonged period indicate that the more intelligent are less likely to be religious, what they do not say is, why?.

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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:26 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                There are 39 things that determine intelligence and not one test can cover all those.

I never said there was just one test to cover intelligence, nor does the research, this is just a bare faced lie you are determined to repeat no matter how many times I expose it, and I am more than happy for anyone to scroll back through this thread to see for themselves how many times I have pointed out that neither I nor the research have ever claimed this. As for your bizarre and unevidenced claim, it's a complete non-sequitur anyway, but Hitchen's razor also applies-slash. The research speaks for itself, I'm not even bothering to quote and link it any more, your performance here has been as imbecilic as it has dishonest. I've lost all patience with your lies and bullshit now I'm afraid.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:58 am

Dr, Sheldon,
I can understand your frustration at being exposed but a more informative consideration is how many atheists and the so called left-wingers are there compared with the rest amongst whom there must be one or two intelligent people but possibly far more percentage wise than the above.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:34 pm

More subjective gibberish, is that even in English? In America 33% of scientists overall admitted belief in a personal deity, with 41% claiming to be atheists. The rest either didn't answer, didn't know, or believed in some form of higher power. Contrast that against the 83% of the general population who claim to believe in God. With atheism at just 4%. In other words scientists are ten times more likely to be atheistic than non-scientists in one of the most religious countries in the developed world, but the research doesn't stop there.

This disparity which has persisted for over 80 years of polling increases drastically when it examines scientists working at elite research universities. With 62% being atheistic and one only 23% believing in God. A degree of non-belief 15 times higher than the general public.

Sitting at the top tier of American science are the members of the National Academy of Sciences, where only the most accomplished scientists are elected as members. Here non-belief is 93% who claim to be atheists. This then is almost the exact opposite of the data for the general population.

I don't really think we need speculate too long on the level of intelligence required to be elected to the National Academy of Sciences compared to the average across the population."

Not one mention of IQ used in that research Polyglide, care to address this? I'm guessing not.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:56 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
Proffesor Miram Zuckerman, 2013.

Controlling for other factors they can only confidently show a strong negative correlation between intelligence and religiosity among American Protestants [1][2].
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:55 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                Proffesor Miram Zuckerman, 2013. Controlling for other factors they can only confidently show a strong negative correlation between intelligence and religiosity among American Protestants [1][2].

Paraphrasing an article by cutting and pasting a single sentence on Wikipedia is pretty meaningless, without linking any research, context, or even the article itself. What is clear as the research has been linked is that Pew research shows:

In America 33% of scientists overall admitted belief in a personal deity, with 41% claiming to be atheists. The rest either didn't answer, didn't know, or believed in some form of higher power. Contrast that against the 83% of the general population who claim to believe in God. With atheism at just 4%. In other words scientists are ten times more likely to be atheistic than non-scientists in one of the most religious countries in the developed world, but the research doesn't stop there.

This disparity which has persisted for over 80 years of polling increases drastically when it examines scientists working at elite research universities. With 62% being atheistic and one only 23% believing in God. A degree of non-belief 15 times higher than the general public.

Sitting at the top tier of American science are the members of the National Academy of Sciences, where only the most accomplished scientists are elected as members. Here non-belief is 93% who claim to be atheists. This then is almost the exact opposite of the data for the general population.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:03 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
Miram Zuckerman gives one a real headache when reading him.

However, his basic thinking is that as a religious person is less likey to take up employment in a scientific field they will be classed as less inteligent.

Simple but sound in this respect but I agree he says far more.
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:22 pm

So it's just his opinion then. Not really relevant either as the research didn't only involve scientists, and as I never tire of pointing out, and you never tire of ignoring, it spans decades of research using very large test groups, from diverse demographics. In nearly every study the results are relentless and show the same trend away from belief in a deity as intelligence and education increases. Though I'm sure your one liner, subjectively edited, with no link, based on the opinion of one man, a believer himself, is in your eyes what's called a *slam dunk. Sadly, it just ain't so....

It's getting harder and harder not to laugh at your desperate attempts to deny all the evidence, because you simply don't like what it shows, wait a minute, I see another relentless trend developing in you denying facts and evidence ...Rolling Eyes Wink

Oh what the hell, lets have another look....

"Pew research shows:

In America 33% of scientists overall admitted belief in a personal deity, with 41% claiming to be atheists. The rest either didn't answer, didn't know, or believed in some form of higher power. Contrast that against the 83% of the general population who claim to believe in God. With atheism at just 4%. In other words scientists are ten times more likely to be atheistic than non-scientists in one of the most religious countries in the developed world, but the research doesn't stop there.

This disparity which has persisted for over 80 years of polling increases drastically when it examines scientists working at elite research universities. With 62% being atheistic and one only 23% believing in God. A degree of non-belief 15 times higher than the general public.

Sitting at the top tier of American science are the members of the National Academy of Sciences, where only the most accomplished scientists are elected as members. Here non-belief is 93% who claim to be atheists. This then is almost the exact opposite of the data for the general population."
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Re: Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Post by polyglide on Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:09 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
Once again you miss the point entirely.

You claim that the scientists are the most intelligent, this is disputed on several grounds, because a person does not want to be engaged in science does not mean he/she is less intelligent nor if through being religious they do not take up other occupations regarded as having the most intelligent amongst them
does it mean they are less intelligent.

The whole matter rests on how you can calculate relative intelligence and there is no way without everyone has the same opportunities and persues them.
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