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Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

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Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:12 am

Adding in new economic data shows that the so-called Austerity economic policy alone does not work. It's clear too me that its totally unsustainable as it destroys countries competiveness while draining confidence within business while driving down not only living standers that in turn shrinks demand. Do you believe the Tories will stick with there only economic policy up-to the next GE? if they do, I happen to believe most people will call time on the Tory party.





Growth Forecast downgraded for the Fifth time by (OBR in November 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 2nd Time by Bank of England 1.4% August 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to 1.7% (Budget 2011)
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to by Ernst & Young from1.7% to 0.9% Jan 2012
Growth forecast Downgraded for 2nd Time to by CBI to 1.3% July 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 4th Time to by CBI to 1.2% Sept 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 4th Time to by CBI to 0.9% Feb 2012
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to by I.M.F to 1.3% July 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 4th Time to by I.M.F to 0.6% Jan 2012
Growth forecast in the Tory budget down for a 3rd time to 1.7% (Budget 2011
Growth forecast in the City as low as 1.2% 2011
Disposable income has seen its Sharpest fall in 30 years or 1980s (ONS)
Annual Earnings Growth remains at 1.9% in February 2012
GDP The last cycle of robust growth in potential output of 2.9% was 1997 to 2006 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
GDP when the Tory-Liberal coalition come to power ,the UK was growing at an annual rate of 4% (OBR)
GDP sluggish at just 0.5% for April 2011 (OBR)
GDP City Growth forecast for 2012 are 0.3% to 0.4% (FT Sept 2011)
GDP Growth for forecast set by bank of England at 2.0% 2010
GDP Contracted by 0.5% in the Q4 in 2010 (OBR)
GDP is 0.8% lower than in November 2010 (OBR)
GDP IS 0.2% lower than MARCH 2011 (OBR)
GDP Growth Contracted by 0.5% Q4 2010 (OBR)
GDP Growth April 2011 was Q1 0.5% (OBR)
GDP Growth July 2011 was just Q2 0.2% (OBR)
GDP Growth starts Jan Q1 2012 at just 0.2% (OBR)
GDP Growth December 2011 Contracted by 0.2% Q4 (OBR)
GDP April's figures have just clawed back last years 0.5% contraction in 2010 (OBR)
GDP is 1.1% lower than the OBR thought it would be in Sept 2010 (OBR)
GDP Growth is now lower than 1930s, 1970s, 1980s 1990s (OBR)
GDP UK is 3.6% blow its pre-financial crisis 2008 (H.M.Trasury)
National Debt hits £1.03 Trillion for the first Time Jan 2012 (OBR)
National Debt actual debt after repurchase by Bank of England is £650 Billion (Guardian on B of E figures)
National Debt Coalition & Bank of England QE for 2011 was £75 billion (OBR/Bank of England)
National Debt Coalition & Bank of England QE for 2012 was £50 billion (OBR/Bank of England)
National Debt total Quantitative Easing is £325 Billion in February 2012 (OBR/Bank of England)
National Debt private + public sector debt totals some 500% 2011 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
National Debt Tory Party forecast National debt will fall by just £54 Billion by 2015 (Tory party website)
UK Economic Decline is two and half times that of the entire Euro zone (ONS & H.M.Trasury) 2011
UK Economic Decline is 77% of the EU’s decline for 2011 (H.M.Trasury)
UK Economy shrank by 5.0% in 2009 the biggest calendar year fall since 1921 ( NIE)
UK Economy shrank by 6.3% in 2011 the biggest calendar year fall on record by October 2011 ( NIE)
UK Pound exchange rate has fallen by 21.0% against the Dollar 2011 (H.M.Trasury)
UK lose market share accelerated from 2008 to 2010. (Oxford Economic )
Government Borrowing Tory-Liberal coalition come to power stated an additional £111 Billion 2009 (OBR)
Government Borrowing Net borrowing was just £7.3 Billion in 2010 (H.M.Trasury)
Government Borrowing forecast up by £54 Billion (Budget 2011)
Government Borrowing overshot in Q4 by £127 Billion (OBR)
Government Borrowing overshot in Jan 2012 by £157 Billion (ONS)
Government Borrowing topped the £10 billion by just Feb 2011 (OBR)
Government Borrowing to be £10 billion higher every year from 2012 (OBR)
Government Borrowing in Jan 2012 was £13.7 billion for December 2011 overshooting (OBR)
Private Pension deficit up from £24.5 Billion to £31.7 Billion by Sept 2011 (ONS)
Private Pension Deficit £158 billion December 2011 (ONS)
Private Pension deficit £255.2 form £222 billion in Jan 2012 (N.M.A & ONS)
UK 10 Year bonds, the Historical high of 12.84% set in April 1990 (H.M.Trasury)
UK 10 year Bonds, Record low of 1.97% set in Jan 2012 (H.M.Trasury)
UK 10 Year Bonds, Yields decline by 1.47% from 1989 to 2012 (H.M.Trasury)
UK 10 Year Bonds, averaged 6.28% (H.M.Trasury)
Unemployment up to record 17 year high (ONS)
Unemployment record was set in 1981 at 2.6 million or 9.8% of the Workforce
Unemployment for woman rose for the 10th month in a row March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment increased by 20,000 the highest three month figure since Jan 1997 (ONS)
Unemployment is now 7.7% of economically active population March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment forecast in the budget set to rise to 8.1% in 2012 (Budget 2011)
Unemployment is was2.6 million in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment is now 2.8 million in December 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment Claimants increased by 12,400 in March 2011 to April 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment Woman Claimants increased by 9,300 to 474,400 in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment Men Claimants increased by 3,100 to 994,200 in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment 16-24 hit 1.043 million in Q3, the highest since records began in 1992. 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment benefit payments rose by 1,200 to 1.6 million by December 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment benefit payments up to 1980s levels (ONS)
Business failures in 2010 was 23,000 (ONS)
Business failures in 2011 was 20,900 or 6.5% (ONS)
Bankers Bonus for £14 billion for 2011 (FT & Guardian & BBC)
Manufacturing was flat Feb 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing production out put 1.5% decline in April 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing touted as the engine of the economy fall by 0.3% in July 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing jobless in Q4 2011 to Jan 2012 was up to 395,000
Manufacturing production Cable & Wireless Communication slumped nearly 17% in 2011 (FT)
BDOs output index dropped from Decembers 91.4% to February 2012 to 91.2%
Exports fell in Jan 2011 (HMCR)
Exports Vs Imports increased by 14.7% in October 2011 (HMCR)
Factory gate prices rose 0.9% between February & March 2011 (ONS)
Factory gate prices rose at an annual rate of 5.3% in May 2011 (ONS)
Factory gate prices in December 2011 to 4.8% (ONS)
Factory gate prices fell in January 2012 to 4.1% (ONS)
Factory gate Producers input price inflation in January 2012 is 7% (ONS)
Mortgage & Credit card debt will soar to £2,126 billion by 2015 (ONS)
Mortgage debt now accounts is around £21,000 per person April 2011 (ONS)
Home repossessions peak set in 1991 at 19,000 homes (council of mortgage lenders)
Home repossession forecast to rise to 45,000 in 2012 (council of mortgage lenders )
Construction industry suffered a 0.5% fall in output from November to January 2012 (ONS)
North sea Oil Tax up by £2 Billion for 2011, with HMCR taking 88% in Tax (ONS)
The Worst squeeze on living standards for 90 years
Consumer spending accounts for 65% of the UK economy April 2011 (OMS)
Consumer spending shows the biggest fell in total sales since the survey began in 1995 (KPMG)
Consumer spending has fallen by 1.7% for four consecutive Q in 2011. (ONS)
Personal Spending shows it first drop in personal spending power since the Thatcher slump in 1980s (KMPG)
Petrol down by 1p with VAT up by 2% in the Budget 2011
Petrol prices average increased by 52% up to March 2010
Food Prices rose 7.4% in the biggest rise since 2009 (ONS)
Food Prices rising at 4.9% rising faster than any other OECD in Jan 2012 member (UBS & OECD)
CPI Inflation increase to 3.3% December 2010 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
CPI has put the cost of living double its target from 4% in Jan 2011 to 4.4% in April 2011 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
CPI September 2011 rises by 5.2% (ONS)
CPI October 2011 fall by just 0.2% to 5.0% (ONS)
CPI January 2012 fell to 4.8% from 5.0% (Bank of England)
RPI has gone from 5.1% to 5.5% the highest since 1991 (ONS)
RPI Jan 2011 leapt to CPI 4% from 3.7% with Market Oracle putting real inflation at 6.6% 2012 .
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Mel on Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:55 am

Britain given credit rating warning by Moody's agency.
Also Reports suggests the UK's true jobless total is 6.3m.

Now our AAA rating is in peril, so much for the boy in short troursers, dear Gideon and his ruthless leader Camer-con, who can still only say that they were right with their austerity measures, when it is clear the only way is to greate growth, not jobless. That's easy for the Tories, their policies are designed to create cheap labour for their rich employer friends.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Mel on Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:00 am

Unemployment could be as high as 6.3 million in the UK if a different counting measure was used, highlighting the true scale of joblessness, according to a new report.

The TUC said the higher figure - more than twice the official total - was revealed using an American measure, which includes people in part-time jobs because they cannot find full-time work and recent redundancies.

Manipulation and massaging the figs again, just as the witch did..
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by sickchip on Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:02 am

Can I just point out that quantitative easing is borne of absolute desperation......and is tantamount to legitimised counterfeiting/forgery. When a country resorts to QE it is the beginning of the end.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Mel on Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:38 am

Absolutely sickchip.........
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by sickchip on Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:41 am

How does fabricating £50billion out of nothing to pump into a failing economy equate to being austere? The BoE latest measure - no doubt with government backing.

In one fell swoop this puts paid to any notions that austerity even exists, or that it is working.

This is all an excuse to race the wages of the majority down the scale so we are competitive in a global economy and the minority at the top can maintain their profits, bonuses, and lavish lifestyles. Austerity is only being forced on the poor in order to feed the greed of the rich.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:33 am

A Businessman knows that he can readily increase sales-turnover by undercutting the market on price.

Printing more money has the effect of reducing the exchange rate of the Pound against other currencies, so making our goods cheaper abroad.

Unfortunately that doesn't extend to the Service Industries, of which Britain has such an abundance.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Mel on Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:22 am

sickchip wrote--"This is all an excuse to race the wages of the majority down the scale so we are competitive in a global economy and the minority at the top can maintain their profits, bonuses, and lavish lifestyles. Austerity is only being forced on the poor in order to feed the greed of the rich."

How correct you are my friend. The whole issue is an excuse for the Tories do do what you have said sickchip. The growth situation is being given second priority, or in fact little at all. The danger now for Gideon is the pressure on to keep the AAA rating... His answer to this is not to go for growth but to enhance the pressure upon austerity measures again against the majority, including the poor the sick and the unemployed.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Mel on Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:24 am

Let us hope then OW that the QE measures by BoE king will assist our exporting potential. Not much else to hope for sadly.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by trevorw2539 on Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:41 am

Mel wrote:Britain given credit rating warning by Moody's agency.
Also Reports suggests the UK's true jobless total is 6.3m.

Now our AAA rating is in peril, so much for the boy in short troursers, dear Gideon and his ruthless leader Camer-con, who can still only say that they were right with their austerity measures, when it is clear the only way is to greate growth, not jobless. That's easy for the Tories, their policies are designed to create cheap labour for their rich employer friends.

I don't get involved in party politics on here. I would just like to point out the Moody's agency, as I read it, give the situation in the Eurozone and our involvement in trade with Europe as their concern.
The BBC news website gives both views of the situation.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Mel on Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:29 pm

Moodies are concerned that austerity measures are not working here and growth is not being properly addressed. Yes of course couple that with the threat represented by the Euro crisis is an additional worry.

The government are using the Euro problem as an excuse to smokescreen
the fact that their Tory ideology is undermining proper growth and recovery.

Non voters and non party political involvement by members of the public do not help the situation one jot, with respect...
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by astra on Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:04 pm

Britain's credit downgrade stated (by osborne at 1300hrs today) as showing the coalition (if we are downgraded) is doing the "RIGHT THING"
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Mel on Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:19 pm

Osborne said it was "a reality check for anyone who thinks Britain can duck confronting its debts".

He's the one who needs a reality check the little squirt. He needs to realise that he should be putting the econmy growth as top top priority instead of pretending that austerity measures directed towards the the masses will cure the beast. By the time he wakes up from putting Tory ideology before growth, it will be all too late. Not for the likes of him, his leader and the millionair front benchers, nor Ashcroft, the rail bosses and all those wealthy people Tories look after at the expense of the masses.

When are the people going to rise up against this useless one sided government? Sheep to the slaughter comes to mind.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Ivan on Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:13 pm

Many of you will have noticed how biased towards the Tories the BBC has become recently, no doubt cowed into submission by Tory threats that it will be broken up to please Murdoch. Even today, the BBC has given credence to the idea that it doesn't really matter if Britain loses its AAA credit rating, saying that AA would suffice. Yet I seem to recall that the Lib Dems were bounced into this hideous coalition in just four days in May 2010 in order to prevent any downgrading.

It seems that nobody seems to have told Gideon that the BBC is safely in the Tory camp, along with those Lib Dem poodles. After blaming Gordon Brown, snow, strikes, a royal wedding and the eurozone for all of our woes, Osborne is now blaming the BBC. He has attacked the corporation for "whipping up an anti-business culture" following a warning that Britain's credit rating may be downgraded, and he claims that the BBC is seeking "to undermine the economy".

http://m.dailymail.co.uk/mobile/news/article.html?articleID=2101072
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by astra on Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:51 pm

Osborne said it was "a reality check for anyone who thinks Britain can duck confronting its debts".


That's what gets to me every time Ivan,


Iceland IS ducking, avoiding, refusing to pay back the loan we gave them!

Who "authorised" the loan, did they not know that Iceland could throw in a referendum for the populace to decide on any payback?

We get stuffed by all kinds of systems all the time. It's time for payback!
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:34 am

oftenwrong wrote:A Businessman knows that he can readily increase sales-turnover by undercutting the market on price.

Printing more money has the effect of reducing the exchange rate of the Pound against other currencies, so making our goods cheaper abroad.

Unfortunately that doesn't extend to the Service Industries, of which Britain has such an abundance.


What really gets me is that Just eighteen months ago, when the Conservative-Liberal coalition came to power, the British economy was growing at an annual rate of more than four per cent, and appeared to be recovering surprising strongly from a deep recession that followed the financial crisis of 2008. The budget deficit, which had ballooned to more than ten per cent of G.D.P. as tax receipts had plummeted, clearly needed tackling, but there was no immediate crisis. The previous Labour government had already committed to a gradual program of fiscal retrenchment, and the interest rates on British government bonds had remained low.

yet look at it today. god what the hell are they doing. its been like watching the financial vandalism of the 1980s all over again.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:42 am

Ivan wrote:Many of you will have noticed how biased towards the Tories the BBC has become recently, no doubt cowed into submission by Tory threats that it will be broken up to please Murdoch. Even today, the BBC has given credence to the idea that it doesn't really matter if Britain loses its AAA credit rating, saying that AA would suffice. Yet I seem to recall that the Lib Dems were bounced into this hideous coalition in just four days in May 2010 in order to prevent any downgrading.

It seems that nobody seems to have told Gideon that the BBC is safely in the Tory camp, along with those Lib Dem poodles. After blaming Gordon Brown, snow, strikes, a royal wedding and the eurozone for all of our woes, Osborne is now blaming the BBC. He has attacked the corporation for "whipping up an anti-business culture" following a warning that Britain's credit rating may be downgraded, and he claims that the BBC is seeking "to undermine the economy".

http://m.dailymail.co.uk/mobile/news/article.html?articleID=2101072

Ivan I could not agree more with you. but the truth is the whole of the Left has been under attack by the right wing owned press and TV media for some time now. The BBC like the NHS is owned by the people and this is against the very ideal the Tory party hold so dear to there hearts. if they had there way they would get shot of both in my own view. as they both get right under their skins
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:05 am

Mel wrote: Osborne said it was "a reality check for anyone who thinks Britain can duck confronting its debts".

He's the one who needs a reality check the little squirt. He needs to realise that he should be putting the econmy growth as top top priority instead of pretending that austerity measures directed towards the the masses will cure the beast. By the time he wakes up from putting Tory ideology before growth, it will be all too late. Not for the likes of him, his leader and the millionair front benchers, nor Ashcroft, the rail bosses and all those wealthy people Tories look after at the expense of the masses.

When are the people going to rise up against this useless one sided government? Sheep to the slaughter comes to mind.

Mel
I saw Gideon on the one o'clock news and just could not believe that he was trying to spin this into some sort of vindication of his only economic policy of Austerity. all his rubbish of confronting our debts or that we the people must face up to the debt.

All this from a man who has been borrowing some £157 billion to replace the lack of any economic Growth. in fact... you could say that Gideon's borrowing is the only true growth the UK has right now. talk about how to spin a Downgrade warning or loss of our Triple AAA rating and still manage to turn this all around too a vindication of Austerity. I was just amazed... it was so easy... even the TV news reader was to swallow all of this hog wash. did anyone else think this? or is it just me?
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:07 am

National Institute of Economic and Social Research, a British think tank, released a startling chart comparing the current slump with past recessions and recoveries. It turns out that by one important measure — changes in real G.D.P. since the recession began — Britain is doing worse this time than it did during the Great Depression. Four years into the Depression, British G.D.P. had regained its previous peak; four years after the Great Recession began, Britain is nowhere close to regaining its lost ground.

Nor is Britain unique. Italy is also doing worse than it did in the 1930s — and with Spain clearly headed for a double-dip recession, that makes three of Europe’s big five economies members of the worse-than club. Yes, there are some caveats and complications. But this nonetheless represents a stunning failure of policy.

And it’s a failure, in particular, of the austerity doctrine that has dominated elite policy discussion both in Europe and, to a large extent, in the United States for the past two years.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Mel on Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:43 am

Yes Stox. Cameron has now jumped on the bandwagon.
Cameron says the government will continue in attempts to reduce debts as Britain is warned it could lose its AAA credit rating.

He and his sidekick bum faced boy so called Chancellor, are using the AAA warning an excuse and a means to further their austerity measures upon all, except those who it will not effect including himself and his cruel bunch.
Of course the public are duped yet again by not realising that it is growth that matters. Tories will not concentrate on growth when the alternative austerity suits their usual ideology.

Deficit or not, these barstewards would be using austerity measures in any case. Reason? get the tax levels down for the rich.

I notice too the BBC are runing scared and are bias toward government. So too is MSN. Channel 4 and ITV get nearer the mark with the news.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:17 am

Mel wrote:Yes Stox. Cameron has now jumped on the bandwagon.
Cameron says the government will continue in attempts to reduce debts as Britain is warned it could lose its AAA credit rating.

He and his sidekick bum faced boy so called Chancellor, are using the AAA warning an excuse and a means to further their austerity measures upon all, except those who it will not effect including himself and his cruel bunch.
Of course the public are duped yet again by not realising that it is growth that matters. Tories will not concentrate on growth when the alternative austerity suits their usual ideology.

Deficit or not, these barstewards would be using austerity measures in any case. Reason? get the tax levels down for the rich.

I notice too the BBC are runing scared and are bias toward government. So too is MSN. Channel 4 and ITV get nearer the mark with the news.

Mel
I could not agree more with your summary. You know I just can see all this so-called Austerity medicine will in the end prove counter productive. if it is not already. I even believe that the Greeks have figured out that they could cut everything to the bone and it would not matter at all. all this so-called Austerity policy without a fiscal growth policy has done is drive up unemployment across the UK and Europe. while public sector borrowing has replaced GDP as there fiscal growth policy. you know Mel...all of this has a social dimension that in time will become even far more Toxic than the Debts itself. as how can you do any sort of economic structural reform with 8.4% of UK workers now out of work?

as for the media. well you are 100% spot on...as they are all running scared of what the Tory party may do too them if they do not back this government. all you see is Right wing so-called think tanks and CEOs or Tory MPs consistently claiming there is just no alternative to the Austerity/No fiscal growth policy at all. yet there quite clearly is Mal. its just amazing too see and hear this on the TV news.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by sickchip on Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:51 am

We are not being austere when we keep resorting to quantitative easing - the most recent amount of £50billion pumped out of thin air dwarves supposed savings targets set by supposed austerity measures. False economy.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:41 am

Newsreel pictures from Athens show what the Greek population think of their government's "austerity measures".
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by bobby on Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:21 pm

sickchip. they print an extra 50 billion and say its nessesary, yet do bugger all about the thieves who steal 52 billion of Tax money of wich some are sitting on the Conservative Government front bench.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:31 pm

sickchip wrote:Can I just point out that quantitative easing is borne of absolute desperation......and is tantamount to legitimised counterfeiting/forgery. When a country resorts to QE it is the beginning of the end.

Sickchip
How very true your summary is of QE. Whatever Greece and Britain are doing, it’s not austerity.
There’s no obvious, simple, straight line connection between fiscal policy and growth. In either direction.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:41 pm

bobby wrote:sickchip. they print an extra 50 billion and say its nessesary, yet do bugger all about the thieves who steal 52 billion of Tax money of wich some are sitting on the Conservative Government front bench.

Bobby
all said with great elegance by your good self. how can anyone not agree with what you have rightly said. what just amazes me is the TV news would have us all believe the Tory lead government is cutting the debt. yet know one points out its hard to cut a debt without having any real income from GDP or by borrowing and over borrowing? how can anyone call this cutting anything? while doing what they are doing? hell how much has this bloody NHS bill cost us? what a waste of money and time this bill is Bobby? I would love to know how much money has been spent on this?
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Mel on Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:23 am

With or without a Euro crisis, or a global crisis, or a home deficit, the Tory scum would be enforcing austerity measures. They always do, as it suits their ideology perfectly.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:58 am

Mel wrote:With or without a Euro crisis, or a global crisis, or a home deficit, the Tory scum would be enforcing austerity measures. They always do, as it suits their ideology perfectly.

Obviously, as Tory policy includes maintaining a continuous large, docile pool of workers grateful for jobs at slave wages.

Trade Unions are complete anathema to such policies. That's why they get such a poor Press, which unfortunately most people are prepared to believe.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by witchfinder on Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:09 pm

No matter what your political beliefs are, there are some very basic mathematical facts that are unavoidable, like for example income over expenditure, we simply cannot run a nation where expenditure is permanently higher than income, it simply is not possible without avoiding a future catastrophe.

Some form of austerity is unavoidable - is necessary, and anyone who thinks otherwise is not facing upto reality, but where there is a real difference is how you either raise income, or reduce expenditure in order to close the gap ( close the defecit ).

Recently Ed Balls has argued for a fiscal stimulous to jump-start the economy and encourage economic activity and growth, most of the cost of reducing VAT for a year or slashing income tax for one year can be clawed back by other means, for example by slamming more tax on big banks.

But the other thing to bare in mind is that spending a little to fuel growth will in itself reduce the defecit, increased economic activity brings in more revenue, growth automaticly reduces the defecit as a percentage of GDP.

For anyone who believes that Osborne and Cameron have got it right, please explain how the economy of the UK is in a weaker state now than in April 2010, just prior to the election. ?

How is it that the economy of the United States under Barack Obama, who followed an economic path similar to that proposed by Brown and Darling is doing much better than the UK.

The present UK government seem to think its a race to wipe out the defecit as soon as possible, and by following this course they have clearly cut off economic growth, shot themselves in the foot and have now put our credit rating in jeopardy.




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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:08 pm

Tory intentions are easier to understand if you just think of them as religious nutters - firmly believing only in their own dogma.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:39 am

Mel wrote:With or without a Euro crisis, or a global crisis, or a home deficit, the Tory scum would be enforcing austerity measures. They always do, as it suits their ideology perfectly.

Mel
got a feeling your right...I am sure there is some truth in this is all un-finished business from 1997....sure there is the world banking crisis...but a great deal is ideological from before we won in 1997? you agree Mel?
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Mel on Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:26 pm

Stox--- agreed.

What gets my goat is that Cameron and Co are all for privatisation, profits, assiting the big companies to make more profit by purposely creating a mass of cheap labour.
Ironic in a way when we need our manufacturing base given help, which in turn would give us growth and employment. The likes of the big supermarkets and non productive/ invisible earning companies who do nothing but rip off the public are given carte blanch more or less to make huge profits for idle shareholders with no end product manufactured or to be manufactured.
Thatcher chose invisible earnings instead of manufacturing, hense our banking crisis and so much relability upon invisible earnings via the City.

The trend is make as much profit as possible without having to pay skilled labour. Either get cheap labour overseas as many big companies do or fleece the young workforce who have no other choice of earning a decent wage, let alone a job in many thousands of cases.

Thatcher was a long time ago, however the maufacturing rot started with her and has never recovered. I hope she burns in hell.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:17 pm

Mel wrote:Stox--- agreed.

What gets my goat is that Cameron and Co are all for privatisation, profits, assiting the big companies to make more profit by purposely creating a mass of cheap labour.
Ironic in a way when we need our manufacturing base given help, which in turn would give us growth and employment. The likes of the big supermarkets and non productive/ invisible earning companies who do nothing but rip off the public are given carte blanch more or less to make huge profits for idle shareholders with no end product manufactured or to be manufactured.
Thatcher chose invisible earnings instead of manufacturing, hense our banking crisis and so much relability upon invisible earnings via the City.

The trend is make as much profit as possible without having to pay skilled labour. Either get cheap labour overseas as many big companies do or fleece the young workforce who have no other choice of earning a decent wage, let alone a job in many thousands of cases.

Thatcher was a long time ago, however the maufacturing rot started with her and has never recovered. I hope she burns in hell.

Mel....fully agree with all of that.
have you seen this....


So much for the Tory government being committed to UK manufacturing

The U.K. has selected South Korea's Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering Co. Ltd. for a GBP452 million contract to build refuelling tankers for the Royal Navy fleet, the BBC reports on its website Wednesday.

Some British companies participated in the tender, but the Ministry of Defence is quoted as saying that none of them submitted a final bid for the contract.

Production will take place in South Korea, but the U.K. has won GBP150 million of associated contracts,.
Fox news & BBC 23 /2/2012
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Mel on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:10 am

Ha!!!! so much for keeping British manufacturing British.

Instead of this government fannying around with austerity measures, they would do better to put the effort into assisting manufacturing in a big way.

Of course they prefer the austerity path, it suits their real objective, which is to simply transfer wealth from the botttom to the top in a devious and mercinary way. They think we the public are unable to see this, I think they are wrong and sooner or later the public will wake up. Too late then i'm afraid, scortched earth comes to mind.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by bobby on Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:10 pm

So the filthy Tory's will get their bungs in Won instead of stirling.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Mel on Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:21 pm

Hello bobby

They care not what currency they grab. Money is their GOD and nothing else matters to them.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:52 pm

Austerity does work, provided it is applied fairly and equally. At the end of World War 2, Britain was exhausted and bankrupted by the war effort, and for several years afterwards there was still food rationing, an emphasis on exporting everything we made, and government restrictions upon new construction. Those who lived through the Labour government's control orders acknowledged the necessity, and really did have a feeling that everyone was in it together.

Nobody could possibly share such a feeling now, under the heel of landowners and foreign-owned Corporations. Somehow the baby has been thrown away with its bathwater.
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by astra on Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:16 pm

Somehow the baby has been thrown away with its bathwater.


And as usual, the wet nurse/nanny will get, and have to carry the blame.



Unless of course, she is Norland qualified!
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:16 pm

Mel wrote:Ha!!!! so much for keeping British manufacturing British.

Instead of this government fannying around with austerity measures, they would do better to put the effort into assisting manufacturing in a big way.

Of course they prefer the austerity path, it suits their real objective, which is to simply transfer wealth from the botttom to the top in a devious and mercinary way. They think we the public are unable to see this, I think they are wrong and sooner or later the public will wake up. Too late then i'm afraid, scortched earth comes to mind.

Hi Mel and Bobby
how can anyone not agree with both of you..here we are mucking around killing our Growth on a policy that no country has yet to show that will ever work...while we stand bye and export more jobs and possible growth to South Korea...could you see Germany, Japan..France or even Turkey doing this? as i cannot...only the Tory Party would do such a utterly stupid thing as this...God help us all
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:21 pm

astra wrote:
Somehow the baby has been thrown away with its bathwater.


And as usual, the wet nurse/nanny will get, and have to carry the blame.



Unless of course, she is Norland qualified!

Hi astra
The whole thing is just utterly stupid....but that is the Tory party for you...yet some crazy people still think they are doing a good job...cannot show any data to back this up mind you...god help us all...
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Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

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