Welcome to Cutting Edge. Guests can see and read the contents of most of the boards on this forum but need to become members to read all of them.

Members may post messages and start threads, but it is essential that they read our posting rules and advice before doing so. If you have any immediate questions or queries, please post them on the suggestions board.

After posting at least ten messages, members are able to contact each other and the staff through our personal messaging system.

This forum is administrated by Ivan and moonbeam and moderated by astradt1.

Thank you for visiting Cutting Edge.

Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Ivan on Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:30 pm

This article is reproduced in full with the consent of the author, Dr Jill Segger:-

Not speaking unless you can improve on silence is something with which most Quakers are comfortable. This may mean holding your peace even when you have an opinion.

There is much strife and division on our society today and it has become apparent that to occasionally choose silence is no longer an option for many people. But silence, properly understood, is so much more than evidence of fear or a lack of conviction. It has the power to create a space in which difference, far from being glossed over, may be acknowledged, but deprived of its power to polarise.

When all parties in difference pile in, eager to get their point across and usually seeking to win or dominate, truth and understanding are not served. Mediation or reconciliation becomes difficult as words drive people apart and embed them in the outcomes of confrontation.

If the 'aggressive secularism' of Bideford Town Council – who, let it be remembered, received a ruling which simply said it had no powers to compel councillors to attend prayers - had not become the subject of so much over-excited attention from people who, in Philip Pullman's words: “simply haven't read the judgement, or don't want to read the judgement, because they seem much more keen on making a fuss", someone might have considered the simple solution of replacing the oxymoronic 'compulsory prayers' with a period of shared silence.

In those restful moments, no councillor's faith or lack of it would have been a source of threat or irritation to another. Each would have been at liberty to daydream, pray, reflect, centre down or just step away a little from their previous preoccupations. During my years of service as a local councillor, I can think of many instances where a few moments of consensual silence would have greatly improved both our proceedings and our relations with each other.

The zealotry of that part of the faith community which sees a secular state as an instrument of 'Christianophobia', does not deal in this healing silence. It flies to its pulpit - some would say to its bully pulpit - without pause for reflection. It appears to believe that to be vociferous is to be faithful and that any other course would be a betrayal of trust. Conviction must, of course, be free to speak its mind. But that should not blind it to the possibilities of preparing fruitful ground for dialogue with those who hold an opposing view with equal sincerity.

If George Carey's Coalition for Marriage and the supporters of same sex marriage could agree to meet regularly and spend time in silent reflection, both sides would have the opportunity to place their difference beyond polemic and point scoring. It is evident that imputing bad faith or error to each other can do nothing but increase division and resentment. A respectful and gathered silence would, at least, create the possibility of moving beyond the megaphone.

In the words of Quaker Faith and Practise: “As, together, we enter the depths of a living silence, the stillness of God, we find one another in ‘the things that are eternal’, upholding and strengthening one another."

That is the seedbed in which the future may best be grown.


-----

© Jill Segger is an Associate Director of Ekklesia with particular involvement in editorial issues. She is a freelance writer who contributes to the Church Times, Catholic Herald, Tribune, Reform and The Friend, among other publications. Jill is an active Quaker.
See: http://www.journalistdirectory.com/journalist/TQig/Jill-Segger
You can follow Jill on Twitter at: http://www.twitter.com/quakerpen

avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 7280
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:12 pm

A still tongue denotes a wise head.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 12029
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:15 am

So, who's going to be the first thundering idiot to speak after that sage advice?

Ah......sorry........... Embarassed
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3991
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:41 am

Lord Prescott was jumped all over when being interviewed by Kirsty Young on the radio programme Desert Island Discs. He allowed himself a pause for thought upon being asked whether he thought Ed Miliband would lead the next Government.

Rarely has silence been more eloquent.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 12029
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Are cows dangerous or is it a load of old bullocks?!

Post by Bellatori on Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:30 am

Heretic wrote:...I did not realise it but a small herd of cows had been released into the field, rather than the normal sounds that cows make as they communicate with each other they were quite. I was quite unaware of their presence. Suddenly and that is how it felt to me I get a massive shove in my back that rolled me over onto the grass. These cows had come up to me in the middle of the field and surrounded me, they must of been stealth cows as I didn't hear them approach. You just cannot imagine how strong a cow is until you remember the size of their neck and the fact that all of that neck or most of it is muscle. I opened my eyes in surprise and just laughed when I realised what had happened, the cows seemed to be laughing too....
You have no idea how lucky you were. People immediately think of dangers of bulls in a field but rarely realise that cows can be extremely dangerous especially if there are any calves in the group. I remember reading an NFU article that pointed out that more walkers are killed by cows than by bulls because of this.

They could have taken your meditation to a higher plane as it were!?

Bellatori
Banned

Posts : 446
Join date : 2013-10-11
Age : 66
Location : Newcastle

http://www.bellatori.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Shirina on Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:35 pm

Moo?

Do cows meditate? I wonder what thoughts run through their heads when they listen to the silence ...

Cow thought .oO I really hope I'm a breeding cow and not slated for the butcher shop. I'd cross my fingers, but all I have are these damn hooves, and I can't cross those! Oh no, here comes another human moron driving down the street. I bet someone sticks their head out of the window and moos at me when the car passes by.

Human: Moooooooo!

Cow thought .oO Yeah, I thought so. He wouldn't be mooing if the hoof was on the other leg. He doesn't have to worry about being eaten at a picnic or restaurant or around the family dinner table. If my bovine mouth was capable of forming words, I'd tell those gluttonous humans to stop eating us! Cows are people too! But alas, all I can do is moo ... what kind of cruel god would do that to our species?
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by polyglide on Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:06 pm

Silence is golden, in particular when you have nothing sensible to say.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Shirina on Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:36 pm

If silence is golden, then for every moment I say nothing, I should receive an equivalent amount of gold.

So ... where is it?
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Shirina on Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:27 pm

Heretic wrote:
Shirina wrote:If silence is golden, then for every moment I say nothing, I should receive an equivalent amount of gold.

So ... where is it?

You will see it over there in the corner with the label "Peace of Mind", it replaces slowly that heap in the other corner labelled "Pieces of Mind".

:->>

Heretic  

Bah, I used to have peace of mind before I moved up here to Pennsylvania. Now I have no peace at all - in my mind or anywhere else.
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Freemason on Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:59 am

Peace of mind is based on what you are prepared to accept in your life.
avatar
Freemason
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by boatlady on Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:32 pm

That is true, no doubt - the events in our lives are in a sense less important than our attitude to them - however, if the events are uniformly painful, uncomfortable, emotionally challenging --- maybe it becomes harder to adopt a positive mental attitude -----
avatar
boatlady
Former Moderator

Posts : 3804
Join date : 2012-08-24
Location : Norfolk

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by boatlady on Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:36 pm

true
avatar
boatlady
Former Moderator

Posts : 3804
Join date : 2012-08-24
Location : Norfolk

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by polyglide on Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:22 pm

It is an unfortunate fact that not all have the problems inflicted on others.

I have seen the most afflicted who are the most humble and none critical nor enviouis and others who are not so afflicted exactly the opposite.

We do not know why there are so many different problems but most in one way or another can be attributed to the actions of mankind by over the years not adhering to what God instructed us to do.

Not of course forgetting the possible intervention of Satan.

Many problems are self inflicted.

I have found after seeing many different ways of life and different countries that the most humble and most able to accept their lot are those considered as the lower classes.

This may of course be put down to a lack of education, however, they apparently enjoy life far better than the vast majority irrespective of any problems.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:28 pm

Stoicism might be the appropriate word to be used in this discussion.

"God grant me the strength to achieve the things I can
To accept there are things that I can't
and the wisdom to know the difference"
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 12029
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Shirina on Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:07 pm

Heretic wrote:
boatlady wrote:That is true, no doubt - the events in our lives are in a sense less important than our attitude to them - however, if the events are uniformly painful, uncomfortable, emotionally challenging --- maybe it becomes harder to adopt a positive mental attitude -----

To handle a crisis with strength and fortitude is not difficult, once. To handle crisis after crisis, day after day, week after week is far more difficult.

A friend of mine suffers from Fibromyalgia and it is very much advanced to the point where she is bed-ridden on average five days out of seven. She does not and cannot see the days when she cannot get out of bed as failures but very much does see the days when she can get out of bed and put her make-up on as glorious victories, if she can leave the house as well then they become magnificent victories.

Everything is relative.

Heretic

My condition is very similar to Fibromyalgia so I know what that's like - and it's a big reason why I'm not around the forum more often. I've had to give up the vast majority of things that I once enjoy including socializing, traveling, walking, exploring, and a host of other things. I am glad, though, that I have this condition NOW and not say, 100 years ago. Even excluding the lack of medicine for this condition back then, I would be stuck in a room, in a bed, doomed to lay there for hours/days staring at the ceiling in utter silence. No television, no DVDs, no computer, no internet, no video games, no radio, no phonographs, and only the most primitive telephone service. Holy crap I think I would be insane with boredom if not for modern technology. At least there's that.

But the less you're able to do, the smaller the task one can list as an accomplishment. Whereas others do those things without thinking, to us, they are monumentally difficult endeavors.
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by polyglide on Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:54 pm

The human body is such that evolution cannot in any way be responsible for it's existance, we have not even touched the edge of the possibilities God offered and I do not mean to erase pain and suffering, if we had obeyed his instructions, no, not obeyed but accepted, then there would not be either pain or suffering.

I have seen my wife die from cancer over a period of 18 months going down to a weight of 4 stone.

She was the most devote Christian you could meet and whilst I at the time could not believe God could allow such suffering to one so faithful. she said we all must endure that which befalls us until such times as God takes controll.

I said I could not understand why it could or should happen to her,
her reply was, why not me.

I myself have had a hip replacement without which I would not have been able to walk, along with eye surgery and several other hearing problems, all of which I am most grateful for, however, I would much rather mankind had adhered to God's advice which would have resulted in no ill health.

My younger sister had a baby girl, Dawn, who because of the lack of oxygen at birth needed 24 hours a day attention fo all her needs.

My sister did so for 46 years, every day, Dawn died and two weeks after my sister died.

So I feel along with being witness to countless other succch situations I am well aware of the problems mankind suffers.

The question is WHY.

I feel if you base your opinion on ill health etc; then you have a very unsound foundation for blaming anyone other than mankind.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by polyglide on Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:55 pm

You have my deepest sympathy and will not persue the matter further other than to say my children and grandchildren are all of an age when I can feel their future is reasonable under all the present circumstances and for that I am truly grateful.

Time does help but ?????.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Shirina on Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:13 pm

I am sorry, polyglide, but only the most heinous monstrosity could sit and watch the horrible suffering of humanity - and DO NOTHING.
 
Who gives a rat's ass if Eve ate some ridiculous fruit ... I don't care how angry I was that my creation disobeyed. My anger would be quickly squashed as I watch the suffering and knowing I caused it ... and I have the power to end it.
 
So no ... there is simply no excuse, for no purely good entity could watch the injustices, and the suffering, and the pain and not be moved to intervene.
 
Our Constitution here in the U.S. protects us from cruel and unusual punishments, something God could learn from.
 
And, as I am not the World Dictator of Mankind, I have no responsibility for what everyone else does, so why should I be punished for it?
 
It's all such a load of nonsense, and why anyone, Christian or not, would want to believe in this immoral claptrap is simply beyond baffling.
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by polyglide on Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:01 pm

I do not understand your last post.

I do many things to help those less fortunate and pray constantly that those who suffer in any part of the world are assisted in coping with their problems.

You do not understand the problem God has with Satan, just as there is good and evil in mankind, there is obviously the same situation in God's provinces and until you appreciate this situation you cannot possibly understand much of any of the events on earth.

God will be far more dispondent at the state of the world than any man, after all we are his children in one sense of the word.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Dan Fante on Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:37 pm

If the problems of man are all down to man then what is the point in prayer?
avatar
Dan Fante

Posts : 928
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : The Toon

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Greatest I am on Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:30 pm

oftenwrong wrote:A still tongue denotes a wise head.

Yet for evil to grow, all good people need do is stay silent.

Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1087
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by polyglide on Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:27 am

Prayer is the most potent form of requesting the proper means of not only an end to wrong doing but putting right the wrongs, if possible.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by polyglide on Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:16 am

If only.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Dan Fante on Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:24 pm

PG, are you arguing that the best way to effect a change in your life is to wait for God to do it?
avatar
Dan Fante

Posts : 928
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : The Toon

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Greatest I am on Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:50 pm

polyglide wrote:Prayer is the most potent form of requesting the proper means of not only an end to wrong doing but putting right the wrongs, if possible.

Leave it to a Christian to lie outright and expect his lie to be believed.

You prayer is not potent. It is impotent.

When you lie I go-----



Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1087
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by polyglide on Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:53 am

You have the wrong word, the word is important.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by snowyflake on Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:27 pm

Prayer is the same as doing nothing, polyglide.
avatar
snowyflake

Posts : 1221
Join date : 2011-10-07
Age : 59
Location : England

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Greatest I am on Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:52 pm

polyglide wrote:You have the wrong word, the word is important.

To believe in a word is to idol worship it.
You are an idol worshiper and do not do as Jesus says you should. You do not seek God and have settled for an idol.

Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1087
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Greatest I am on Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:18 pm

Heretic wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
polyglide wrote:You have the wrong word, the word is important.

To believe in a word is to idol worship it.

You are an idol worshiper and do not do as Jesus says you should. You do not seek God and have settled for an idol.

Many Christians have a secret that they will never admit to worshipping. That idol is the bible, this is the fate of most fundamentalists.

Heretic

Indeed. I say that they idol worship a Godinabook.

Jesus said look within and they look without. Jesus said we would know his people by their deed ad we can see who is not doing the right deeds.

Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1087
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Dan Fante on Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:44 am

snowyflake wrote:Prayer is the same as doing nothing, polyglide.
Doing nothing is more honest.
avatar
Dan Fante

Posts : 928
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : The Toon

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by polyglide on Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:55 pm

If you refer to the word of God, then you are right.

If you refer to any word that we use as a means of normal understanding, then you are wrong.

Without words we would only be able to communicate with grunts and groans, perhaps in some instances that would be preferable as some use words in a manner unbefittngly.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by polyglide on Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:59 pm

i, i, you are right.
Greatest I am in this instance.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Shirina on Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:41 pm

polyglide wrote:Prayer is the most potent form of requesting the proper means of not only an end to wrong doing but putting right the wrongs, if possible.

Prayer is what gives Christians the illusion of control when faced with a situation that they can't control. Yeah, I know it can be frustrating to have to sit around doing nothing as things seem to get worse, but that's the way it is sometimes. If a loved one is dying, for instance, there just isn't anything you can do, and that feeling of powerlessness can be too much to bear.

So people resort to praying - that perhaps they can do something via proxy. Yeah, maybe if I pray, God will let my loved one live.

As if God is just standing around waiting for you to pray. In his mind, God is thinking, "I'm going to stand here and do jack shit until someone prays. If no one prays, I'm just going to stand here and watch this person die. Yep, I'm a prick like that."

Is that really how you perceive God? Because those who put a lot of stock in prayer is saying precisely that.
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by polyglide on Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:32 pm

As usual Shirina you have a very poor opinion of what Christianity is about.

Christians pray mainly for the betterment of all mankind and at times for individuals etc; who have problems of one kind or another.

The problems are usually of man's making in one form or another and as usual you forget Satan.

If God answered every request that man made in the manner man wanted, then everyone would join the band wagon and there would be no need for faith or for man to be tested.

You say you read and understand the Bible, then read what Jesus had to say concerning the future of mankind.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Greatest I am on Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:37 pm

polyglide wrote:i, i, you are right.
Greatest I am in this instance.

Then smash it from within where Jesus says you must.

Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1087
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by boatlady on Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:05 pm

Meditation, contemplation and silent prayer all help to calm the practitioner, it helps them see clearly and to then act not out of desperation but with a clarity and purpose that helps those around them to act in like manner.


Nicely put

 flower 
avatar
boatlady
Former Moderator

Posts : 3804
Join date : 2012-08-24
Location : Norfolk

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Dan Fante on Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:34 am

Prayer's basically doing nothing whilst kidding yourself you're being benevolent.
avatar
Dan Fante

Posts : 928
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : The Toon

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by boatlady on Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:01 am

meditation, however, is a method of maybe getting one's thoughts and feelings into perspective, so as to be able to act more effectively.
Some people like to call this prayer
avatar
boatlady
Former Moderator

Posts : 3804
Join date : 2012-08-24
Location : Norfolk

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Dan Fante on Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:08 pm

boatlady wrote:meditation, however, is a method of maybe getting one's thoughts and feelings into perspective, so as to be able to act more effectively.
Some people like to call this prayer
Perhaps I should have made it clear my previous post was a general comment. In any case I don't see prayer and meditation as being the same thing. The former is an attempt to communicate with a deity, the latter is about introspection (at least that's how I see it).
avatar
Dan Fante

Posts : 928
Join date : 2013-10-11
Location : The Toon

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by polyglide on Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:29 pm

I have been in some very sticky situations along with others who have no belief, have a try at what they did.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Silence: a healing tool for the secular believer

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum