Libor probe said to expose collusion amongst UK banks and beyond

This is blatant insider trading , they are fleecing the public on a daily basis , read it and weep,


Britain’s Financial Services Authority is probing whether banks’ proprietary-trading desks exploited information they had about the direction of Libor to trade interest-rate derivatives, potentially defrauding their firms’ counterparties, the people said. The investigation may lead to civil fines for the banks and criminal charges for the traders involved.
The rate, a benchmark for about $360 trillion of financial products worldwide, is derived from a survey of banks conducted daily on behalf of the British Bankers’ Association in London.
Manipulating Rates
The lenders are asked how much it would cost them to borrow from one another for 15 different periods, from overnight to one year, in currencies including dollars, euros, yen and Swiss francs. After a predetermined number of quotes are excluded, those remaining are averaged and published for each currency by the BBA before noon.
Regulators worldwide are investigating whether banks attempted to manipulate the London, Tokyo and euro interbank offered rates, known as Libor, Tibor and Euribor. The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, U.S. Department of Justice, and Japan’s Financial Supervisory Agency are all involved. The probes are being led separately, with individual regulators sharing some information among themselves.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-21/fsa-investigating-cross-border-allegations-in-libor-probe.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-15/libor-investigation-said-to-expose-collusion-lack-of-internal-controls.html

This is another reason why Cameron and the square mile of London behave as they do , they have there orders from above, all the JP Morgan , Goldman Sachs nefarious banking deals were done in London , not in the US , the law is tighter in the US , London is bending over backwards , attracting the super rich elites with blood on there hands , Cameron has no problem with this.

Unfortunately this supports the reluctance of Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling to take the necessary measures to curb Casino Banking without similar regulation worldwide.

Any administration attempting unilateral controls would simply find that within six months, the "City of London" for example was now to be found in Frankfurt, Basle or Gibraltar.

The global finance industry is already beyond the reach of individual governments.

Scarecrow wrote:This is blatant insider trading , they are fleecing the public on a daily basis , read it and weep,


Britain’s Financial Services Authority is probing whether banks’ proprietary-trading desks exploited information they had about the direction of Libor to trade interest-rate derivatives, potentially defrauding their firms’ counterparties, the people said. The investigation may lead to civil fines for the banks and criminal charges for the traders involved.
The rate, a benchmark for about $360 trillion of financial products worldwide, is derived from a survey of banks conducted daily on behalf of the British Bankers’ Association in London.
Manipulating Rates
The lenders are asked how much it would cost them to borrow from one another for 15 different periods, from overnight to one year, in currencies including dollars, euros, yen and Swiss francs. After a predetermined number of quotes are excluded, those remaining are averaged and published for each currency by the BBA before noon.
Regulators worldwide are investigating whether banks attempted to manipulate the London, Tokyo and euro interbank offered rates, known as Libor, Tibor and Euribor. The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, U.S. Department of Justice, and Japan’s Financial Supervisory Agency are all involved. The probes are being led separately, with individual regulators sharing some information among themselves.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-21/fsa-investigating-cross-border-allegations-in-libor-probe.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-15/libor-investigation-said-to-expose-collusion-lack-of-internal-controls.html

A good post I must say...its high time it was looked in too...but this will never happen here as this government is in the pay of the bankers....however, its not the case in the US or Japan thank god. its my own view that there was quite a lot of mainpulation going on within the banking sector...its one reason they do not trust each other today...as the plain truth is they lied to each other

Scarecrow wrote:This is another reason why Cameron and the square mile of London behave as they do , they have there orders from above, all the JP Morgan , Goldman Sachs nefarious banking deals were done in London , not in the US , the law is tighter in the US , London is bending over backwards , attracting the super rich elites with blood on there hands , Cameron has no problem with this.

Scaracrow
Cameron has no problem with this because his party is funded by bankers...he will only ever talk them up...its what they are paying for...its all wrong as we both know...as they are a very small group of people...yet other areas within our economy are left to fend for themselves. quite wrong in my view...still two very good posts that sum things up very well indeed

Stox 16 , how you doing mate , yes Cameron has a bloody big PR problem with private finance and the party , vast amounts of funding come from Israeli , jewish sections of the tory party and private sector. I am not anti semitic but the fact 80% of the tory party are members of the friends of Israel party speaks volumes , the Millibands are also members along with a percentage of Labour MPs.
I just like facts no matter what creed , religion is involved , I like to be informed who the hell is funding people who are supposed to be working on behalf of tax payers, this in reality is not the case ha ha . The media I suspect may keep Cameron awake at night in the coming months , painting the tories even more toxic than Thatcher's time.
The bottom line is the tories are working for private sector buddies who have very deep pockets.

The Rich Man's jokes are always funny.

Scarecrow wrote:Stox 16 , how you doing mate , yes Cameron has a bloody big PR problem with private finance and the party , vast amounts of funding come from Israeli , jewish sections of the tory party and private sector. I am not anti semitic but the fact 80% of the tory party are members of the friends of Israel party speaks volumes , the Millibands are also members along with a percentage of Labour MPs.
I just like facts no matter what creed , religion is involved , I like to be informed who the hell is funding people who are supposed to be working on behalf of tax payers, this in reality is not the case ha ha . The media I suspect may keep Cameron awake at night in the coming months , painting the tories even more toxic than Thatcher's time.
The bottom line is the tories are working for private sector buddies who have very deep pockets.

Scarecrow
Well I am doing OK..your good self? well The Tory party has always been in the pay of the City.....its why they spend so much time protecting them in just about every speech they make...its just sad that most people do not pick up on this mate...

Corr! Scarecrow, I wanna know where you purchased your chrystal ball? lol You were well ahead of the game here!

I'm actually bloody furious about all this. I really hope that the police get involved and start chucking the soddin rotters in jail. I have a feeling that a big fat nowt will happen to them!

I bank with Barclays, but not for much longer, I'm weighing up if any of them are ethical, so far the co op bank is looking favorable.

OW wrote "The global finance industry is already beyond the reach of individual governments."
AT LAST SOMEONE HITS ON THE REALITY OF THE SUBJECT.

I have been saying this every time some Tory blames Brown for not regulating the banking industry.

It's the same old Tory cry "the mess we inherited" bloody parrot fashion by each and every one of the gits.

Adele Carlyon wrote:Corr! Scarecrow, I wanna know where you purchased your chrystal ball? lol You were well ahead of the game here!

I'm actually bloody furious about all this. I really hope that the police get involved and start chucking the soddin rotters in jail. I have a feeling that a big fat nowt will happen to them!

I bank with Barclays, but not for much longer, I'm weighing up if any of them are ethical, so far the co op bank is looking favorable.

Hi Delly
The Co-op bank is 100% very ethical and a good bank to be with. it does not get mixed up in the things the big four do.

Scarecrow wrote:This is blatant insider trading , they are fleecing the public on a daily basis , read it and weep,


Britain’s Financial Services Authority is probing whether banks’ proprietary-trading desks exploited information they had about the direction of Libor to trade interest-rate derivatives, potentially defrauding their firms’ counterparties, the people said. The investigation may lead to civil fines for the banks and criminal charges for the traders involved.
The rate, a benchmark for about $360 trillion of financial products worldwide, is derived from a survey of banks conducted daily on behalf of the British Bankers’ Association in London.
Manipulating Rates
The lenders are asked how much it would cost them to borrow from one another for 15 different periods, from overnight to one year, in currencies including dollars, euros, yen and Swiss francs. After a predetermined number of quotes are excluded, those remaining are averaged and published for each currency by the BBA before noon.
Regulators worldwide are investigating whether banks attempted to manipulate the London, Tokyo and euro interbank offered rates, known as Libor, Tibor and Euribor. The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, U.S. Department of Justice, and Japan’s Financial Supervisory Agency are all involved. The probes are being led separately, with individual regulators sharing some information among themselves.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-21/fsa-investigating-cross-border-allegations-in-libor-probe.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-15/libor-investigation-said-to-expose-collusion-lack-of-internal-controls.html

Well posted and well spotted SC. hats off too you mate. as you was dead right about this.

Scarecrow wrote:
This is another reason why Cameron and the square mile of London behave as they do , they have there orders from above, all the JP Morgan , Goldman Sachs nefarious banking deals were done in London , not in the US , the law is tighter in the US , London is bending over backwards , attracting the super rich elites with blood on there hands , Cameron has no problem with this.

Scaracrow
Cameron has no problem with this because his party is funded by bankers...he will only ever talk them up...its what they are paying for...its all wrong as we both know...as they are a very small group of people...yet other areas within our economy are left to fend for themselves. quite wrong in my view...still two very good posts that sum things up very well indeed .

How are people ever going to take you lefties seriously when you blatently lie...even to each other. All this was going on before the coalition took office, when LABOUR was in government....DOH!!!!!!!

I will try the same thing and see how it sounds to you.....I was really annoyed when Neil Kinnock brought the mining industry to its knees in 1984. He ruined that industry and put many people on the dole
Now if you were centre/right you would all be saying yeah, yeah...evil Kinnock, it was nothing to do with the Tories.....So can you not see the stupidity in what you lot say sometimes? You ruin your whole argument against the Tories by constantly lieing to yourselves and fellow posters... Sometimes I sit hear reading your posts pis*ing myself laughing, thinking 'Do they really believe their own Bull sh*t?'
So try this for size and stop burying your heads in the sand

Investigators’ Conclusions Investigators concluded this week that traders at Barclays lied between 2005 and 2009 to make the bank appear secure during the financial turmoil of 2008 and to make a profit, sometimes colluding with workers in at least four other banks. At the time, Diamond was running Barclays Capital, the division implicated.

Which leads us to that regulatory structure. Over the time period we’re talking about it was the new, tripartite, regulatory structure devised by Gordon Brown, then Chancellor, and his right hand man, Ed Balls, now Shadow Chancellor. The crucial point of this structure was that after 2001 regulation of the banks was taken away from the Bank of England and placed with the Financial Services Authority. The old system worked by what was called “the Governor’s eyebrows”. Rules and laws and checklists and manuals were few and far between. The City operated pretty roughly at times, this is true, but the BoE could and did influence matters simply by force of personality.

blueturando wrote:

Scarecrow wrote:
This is another reason why Cameron and the square mile of London behave as they do , they have there orders from above, all the JP Morgan , Goldman Sachs nefarious banking deals were done in London , not in the US , the law is tighter in the US , London is bending over backwards , attracting the super rich elites with blood on there hands , Cameron has no problem with this.

Scaracrow
Cameron has no problem with this because his party is funded by bankers...he will only ever talk them up...its what they are paying for...its all wrong as we both know...as they are a very small group of people...yet other areas within our economy are left to fend for themselves. quite wrong in my view...still two very good posts that sum things up very well indeed .

How are people ever going to take you lefties seriously when you blatently lie...even to each other. All this was going on before the coalition took office, when LABOUR was in government....DOH!!!!!!!

I will try the same thing and see how it sounds to you.....I was really annoyed when Neil Kinnock brought the mining industry to its knees in 1984. He ruined that industry and put many people on the dole
Now if you were centre/right you would all being yeah, yeah...evil Kinnock, it was nothing to do with the Tories. Can you not see the stupidity in what you lot say sometimes? You ruin your whole argument against the Tories by constantly lieing to yourselves and fellow posters... Sometimes I sit hear reading your posts pis*ing myself laughing, thinking 'Do they really believe their own Bull sh*t?'
So try this for size and stop burying your heads in the sand

Investigators’ Conclusions Investigators concluded this week that traders at Barclays lied between 2005 and 2009 to make the bank appear secure during the financial turmoil of 2008 and to make a profit, sometimes colluding with workers in at least four other banks. At the time, Diamond was running Barclays Capital, the division implicated.

Which leads us to that regulatory structure. Over the time period we’re talking about it was the new, tripartite, regulatory structure devised by Gordon Brown, then Chancellor, and his right hand man, Ed Balls, now Shadow Chancellor. The crucial point of this structure was that after 2001 regulation of the banks was taken away from the Bank of England and placed with the Financial Services Authority. The old system worked by what was called “the Governor’s eyebrows”. Rules and laws and checklists and manuals were few and far between. The City operated pretty roughly at times, this is true, but the BoE could and did influence matters simply by force of personality.

This must be one of your right wing joke posts I guess. as its factually plain wrong. But as a joke article is very funny blue, As I do not think I have ever read a greater work of utter fantasy. However, you have a very good imagination for fiction Blue. I Would of replied to you if I could stop laughing at how factually wrong you are. god Tory and right wing history is so very funny ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

The surprise is that anyone is surprised at the revelation that Bankers are not always honest and upright.

There is nothing worse than a gullible Tory supporter.

Amazingly (as everything is Thatchers fault???) This mis-selling and fraudulent corruption being carried out by the big 4 banks started in 2001. Wasn't that the same time as Brown removed the overseeing of financial dealing from the B of E to his much loved FSA whist at the same time removing any serious control and authority from them. Yup anybody saying Brown was either useless or corrupt probably got it right and I'm confident he wasn't corrupt.

There is nothing worse than a gullible Tory supporter

Ok now dispute what I said with FACTS, not leftie BS

You can't argue with the facts blue, hence all the BS will appear until another false reality appeals to lefties.

Perhaps Brown was daft enough to think that Banks would act in a decent/legal manner but then again he should have realised that when it comes to money those with the biggest pay packets tend to want even more. You only have to look at tax avoidance....

If the banks were not allowed to pay massive bonus's would the traders have carried out this illegal practice?

The laws should be changed and Traders and Bankers should have a powerful governing body like many of the professions have, like the NMC for nurses and GMC for Doctors where these bodies have the power to take away the individuals right to work should they be found to have broken the rules.....even a charge of bring the profession in to disrepute can be grounds......I wonder how many Traders/Bankers would fall foul of that one?

It was interesting on Question Time on Thursday that the Tory panel member seem only able to say that little action could be taken because the last (Labour) government had not set up the rules to take action but the Financial Manager pointed out that the laws about obtaining money or pecuniary advantage by deception could easily be used.

blue "Ok now dispute what I said with FACTS, not leftie BS"

Now yet again blue, you come here making these comments and asking questions which have already been answered and on other threads.

We had another example the other day where I wrote the same thing adding that you are so keen to get your sixpennyworth on board that you fail to read the posts that have already addressed the same questions that you have put.
Perhaps time is a problem for you as you are a business person. However, if you can find time to argue against Labour supporters then perhaps you would be good enough to read the posts that are relative to your comments and questions. Many thanks.

Good points astradt,
where you have such a complex and diverse industry such as the banking sector, there will always be opportunities for some to bend or break the rules for personal gain, whether it be those at the top or those below who think they are in a safe haven to get away with anything, can only be described as dealing in criminal activity.

The problem has been that the FSA was brought in by Brown to curb ALL rogue activity in all financial activity. For example licencing brokers and imposing heavy fines and jail sentencing for some who were caught conning the public.
The measure was taken by Brown from the BoE as it had insufficient monitoring staff to cope with the regulatons.
Unfortunately before 2008 following the Crunch, it was realised the even the FSA was understaffed to be able to properly regulate every bank, every office, every arm/subsidiery of the banking sector. In 2008 further FSA staff were recruited and now we find that even that measure was not sufficient.

All this of course has not a lot to do with international bank to bank lending because regulation for that has to be agreed by banks worldwide with the backing of their respective governments. Impossible to get total agreement, hence we had to endure the Global Credit Crunch.

Unless we have an FSA or BoE Official in every bank etc, every week, we will continue to have these crooks breaking the rules undetected.

At present Cameron's rhetoric to put the BoE back in charge will not work unless the bank encompasses ALL existing FSA staff and employs many more officials to do the monitoring job. Costly and not fulproof.

Whilst setting up a regulatory body may seem expensive but if, as with the NMC and GMC, all members i.e. Traders and Bankers had to pay an annual fee which would fund the inspectors and tribunals some of the cost could be offset....Anyone refusing to pay the annual fee would be barred from working as a Banker/Trader in Britain.

The NMC has On-line access to the register of paid up members which allows potential employers and the general public to check the status of any nurse...

Lenders and suchlike financiers already need to have a Licence from the OFT, under the Credit Control Act 1974.

The point of a Licence is that it can be revoked for misuse, and there are severe penalties for trading without a licence.

Legislation to incorporate other Banking activities could be effected at the stroke of a Minister's pen, but we don't really have the right Government for that, do we?

"Traders and Bankers had to pay an annual fee which would fund the inspectors"

Excellent idea astradt. The problem with that is that the costs would be passed on to borrowers.

"Legislation to incorporate other Banking activities could be effected at the stroke of a Minister's pen, but we don't really have the right Government for that, do we?"

True OW, especially with the current Libor abuse here in the City.

Mel
I was talking about the individual Traders/Bankers paying the fee from their own pockets, as nurses already have to do....

Of course there will already be £290 million to put towards the set up fund from the fine imposed on Barclay's...Which will of course be obtained on to it's customers.

I would not say it is the perfect solution but it would be a start....

Having read all the intelligent posts on here, I will put my simple thoughts in.


Does it really matter when this all started, and under which Governments it has flourished? What matters is how to solve the problem.
Of course we need to know the why, the when, the who, and we already know the why. The question now is the what. What do we do about it.

It has always been the failing in humanity that some will seek to take advantage of events, circumstances and possessions for personal gain.

I know this is a different sphere but the Bank of Babylon hadn't yet been set up.

264. If a herdsman, to whom cattle or sheep have been entrusted for watching over, and who has received his wages as agreed upon, and is satisfied, diminish the number of the cattle or sheep, or make the increase by birth less, he shall make good the increase or profit which was lost in the terms of settlement.

265. If a herdsman, to whose care cattle or sheep have been entrusted, be guilty of fraud and make false returns of the natural increase, or sell them for money, then shall he be convicted and pay the owner ten times the loss.

Code of Hammurabi circa 1800 BC

Fraud and manipulation is an age old failing. One door shuts, someone will find another.

The trick, well, the problem, will be to rein in the excesses of our Banking industry, without putting it at a disadvantage with the rest of the worlds banking systems. And I have no idea how you would do that.

My experience of banks is a nice day by the waterside, with a rod and line, just hoping there's something there for me to take out.

Hm. Come to think of it, rather like real banking.

Dickens had 'Great expectations'. Trevorw2539 has 'Bleak House'

The whole thing needs to be investigated thoroughly, but no more Public Inquiries. We have a fraud squad, surely they could investigate. They have the power of the Law behind them. Public Inquiries are expensive. They take money and time that could be used for helping those in need.

But then, what do I know.

Your "simple thoughts" are very welcome trevor. Not so simple I would suggest for you make many good points.

I agree public inquiries are expensive, but necessary in this case and should be funded by the offenders or the banks themselves who should be held responsible. Either way IMO we urgently need an INDEPENDANT public inquiry into all this as it is vitally important to get peoples confidence back in the bankers. God knows the Crisis they created was bad enough, but this is IMO a criminal act and heads must roll.

The reason I say we urgently need some proper action on this issue is because a time lapse will give the offenders time to cover their tracks. Cameron is allowing this time lapse by refusing Labours demands for a public inquiry.
He is close to the bosses of the banking sector and is IMO playing to public opinion for political gain. The forceful and loud arrogant way in which he tried to come across today in interview on the subject as
if he was having no nonsense with the banks as if he could put things right at a stroke. Just Cameron rhetoric as usual, say everything, do nothing.

To me, if the law has been broken, the "operatives" well paid for by the Tax Payer should be utilised, let off the leash to do their jobs.
An Inquiry, to me, is expensive lawyers being given a free hand at playing with Tax Payer's money, while at the same time listening to WAFFLE merchants being "economical with the truth" to simply play with time.
Send the FRAUD SQUAD in by the back door and sod "due process"

EDIT

For the Politically Correct in here, I do not mean 'Kick the Bloody Door In' Set them in on some minor investigation, and then "mission creep" sets in oops!

I'm afraid that won't happen astra as the BoE have been handed the task. How long will it take for them to get their fingers out, if they have the staff to do the job that is?
Even then there may be conflicts of interest "old chums" and all that and Cameron has passed the buck to Mervyn King so that if little or nothing is done, he Cameron will not be to blame.
I agree this is a job for the Fraud Squad and not bank to bank investigation.

Again IMO this or nothing like it will take place and remember these offenders are stll there, still working, still undetected and will have plenty of time as previously mentioned to hide or destroy any incriminating evidence.

All the Cameron blustering threats will turn out to be nothing at all, you mark my words.

Mel quote. I agree public inquiries are expensive, but necessary in this case and should be funded by the offenders or the banks themselves who should be held responsible. Either way IMO we urgently need an INDEPENDANT public inquiry into all this as it is vitally important to get peoples confidence back in the bankers. God knows the Crisis they created was bad enough, but this is IMO a criminal act and heads must roll.

I agree we need answers and fast. The problem I have with PI's is that they take time and money and the report at the end is usually in the distant future as far as the ordinary peoples mind is concerned. By the time it comes out time will have moved on.
The Leveson inquiry will/is revealling many interesting things. How many of the public is really interested in all the facts and figures. Most people will be happy with the barest, though important, details. When it eventually is compiled and brought out I guarantee that the Leveson report will be read by the 100,000s rather than the millions.

The majority of people with bank accounts, while being 'shocked' by the revelations, will not be that concerned as long as it has not affected their dealings with the bank. Most of the 'ordinary' people have little idea or understanding of what has actually happened. Posters on here are interested because they are more knowlegeable and with all their wealth may be affected - oops - just joking.

Of course most people want to see things run ethically and honestly, but they are more interested in the daily grind and surviving themselves.

Oh. Heads don't roll in this country. That's for the French

And I get more cynical as I get older.

Clearly we need a Law to stop humans behaving in a normal human self-interested manner.

blueturando wrote:

There is nothing worse than a gullible Tory supporter

Ok now dispute what I said with FACTS, not leftie BS

Its so easy to dispute every word of you statement. without any so called left wing BS as you put it. but I believe that the person who topic this is should put you right. as there is not one real true fact within you joke statement. as your statement on Kinnock is just laughable. it may help you if you first of all read what he said in the House of Commons on this subject and got a grip of some real History and not some made up history about what he did and said at that time.

However, will leave this to SC as its his topic and not mine. as it should be so easy to prove you totally wrong. Have fun SC

Mel wrote:I'm afraid that won't happen astra as the BoE have been handed the task. How long will it take for them to get their fingers out, if they have the staff to do the job that is?
Even then there may be conflicts of interest "old chums" and all that and Cameron has passed the buck to Mervyn King so that if little or nothing is done, he Cameron will not be to blame.
I agree this is a job for the Fraud Squad and not bank to bank investigation.

Again IMO this or nothing like it will take place and remember these offenders are stll there, still working, still undetected and will have plenty of time as previously mentioned to hide or destroy any incriminating evidence.

All the Cameron blustering threats will turn out to be nothing at all, you mark my words.

Mel how true this statement is..... a job for the Fraud Squad and not bank to bank investigation.

However, I cannot quite remember a week for banking or the City of London like this last one. nor do I think I Can remember a week with so much greed and dishonesty with banking incompetence coming out in just one week.

some of the statement and analysis has been very interesting. Mervyn King sounded like a headmaster that was full of old school tie banking frustrations with the class of 83. but you know I was left thinking that his frustrations are born of banks and bankers who have spent years protecting their power bases and the privileges they have built up over many years. all of which has been done in the face of regulators demands to preserve capital and the high pay culture.

Meanwhile there has been a debate within the politicians over structural reform of the financial services industry, that has been met with barely disguised threats, as the banks have warned not to push us too hard. I noted with great intrest that some banks have almost warned the politicians that the banks are the best hope for reviving the UK economy. I also have found it very interesting to note that the Tory party leadership have stop well short of coming out for anything that would really up-set the banking big four banks 75 year banking cartel. So far for Cameron and Gideon its a case of lots of huffing and puffing and they must be seen too be on the side with Joe pubic.

So its once more been left to the Labour leadership to call to call for a leveson style inquiry to discover in a methodical way what has gone wrong and why. I could not agree more with this. as its far too late to having some right wing cover up while everyone wallpapers over the deep problems within the banking sector. Ed Balls and Ed Miliband know full well they have left themselves wide open to a political and banking back-lash. Just like Brown was told he would face if he gave the FSA real banking teeth. But it has to be done not just because it right but because the whole world banking and finance sector knows it must be done if you wish to still have a financial service sector of any note. if not the world markets will do it for us.

Now I am no lover of the way the City of London has been run over the last 30 years. but with our economy dead on its feet due to Tory party mismanagement and our Manufacturing industry weak after 30 years of lack of investment and with our economy with no growth for two whole years. So in light of all of this. Is the Tory Party and its Leadership now going to Gamble with not having an leveson style inquiry and just hope they can cover this all up without the world economic super powers not noticing that we are happy to sweep this all under the old rug?

Lets put it this way. IF THERE IS NO PUBLIC INQUIRY INTO THIS. THEN WHAT REPUTATION THE CITY OF LONDON THINKS IT HAS LEFT WILL BE LOST FOR EVER.
I sorry to say we need a balanced economy with both Manufacturing and a finance sector working together. so any loss of reputation within the finance sector will kill us all stone dead for years and years to come. So if I was Cameron and thank god I am not. Needs to agree with Ed Miliband and sort this out for the good of the whole UK ECONOMY. as Cameron is Gambling with your economic future. I could not even care what any Tory posts in reply to this post. but if they have half a brain they should get behind an inquiry and show the world we take this very seriously indeed.




However, it high time that the Labour party and its leadership told the banking sector that they are subject to the law just like everyone else and that this conduct of greed with the financial cancer of the big four banking cartel needs to come to an end. Its time for everyone to push aside bankers threats to us all. as the plain fact is that our economy cannot afford not to deal with this issue and what's more must be seen to be dealing with it in a open way.

blue "Ok now dispute what I said with FACTS, not leftie BS"

Now yet again blue, you come here making these comments and asking questions which have already been answered and on other threads.

We had another example the other day where I wrote the same thing adding that you are so keen to get your sixpennyworth on board that you fail to read the posts that have already addressed the same questions that you have put.
Perhaps time is a problem for you as you are a business person. However, if you can find time to argue against Labour supporters then perhaps you would be good enough to read the posts that are relative to your comments and questions. Many thanks

MEL...My post was in response to the nonsense that Scarecrow and Stox had posted. I presented them with the facts...facts that even you cannot dispute, much as you would like to try. My comments are based on this thread Mel and what was posted, that's all
You say I didn't come back on your post the other day, which ever one that was....I'm sure it was opinion rather than fact, but Im happy to be proved wrong if you can?

Its so easy to dispute every word of you statement. without any so called left wing BS as you put it. but I believe that the person who topic this is should put you right. as there is not one real true fact within you joke statement. as your statement on Kinnock is just laughable. it may help you if you first of all read what he said in the House of Commons on this subject and got a grip of some real History and not some made up history about what he did and said at that time.

If it's so easy to dispute, then dispute it...with facts. Im all ears Stox, enlighten me.
My comment on Kinnock was a joke comment...please read my post again and you may get the point?

blue "You say I didn't come back on your post the other day, which ever one that was....I'm sure it was opinion rather than fact, but Im happy to be proved wrong if you can?"

With respect blue, if you can't be bothered to search and read the replies to your own posts then you will never know if the replies are in your opinion "fact" or opinion now will you?

Such a good post Stox-- many thanks.

Stox quote So its once more been left to the Labour leadership to call to call for a leveson style inquiry to discover in a methodical way what has gone wrong and why. I could not agree more with this. as its far too late to having some right wing cover up while everyone wallpapers over the deep problems within the banking sector. Ed Balls and Ed Miliband know full well they have left themselves wide open to a political and banking back-lash. Just like Brown was told he would face if he gave the FSA real banking teeth. But it has to be done not just because it right but because the whole world banking and finance sector knows it must be done if you wish to still have a financial service sector of any note. if not the world markets will do it for us.

As I understand it this thread was originally about the fixing of interest rates. Thus my comment about a Public enquiry stands.

However, I agree with Stox that the whole Banking and Financial Sector needs to come under scrutiny to bring back the confidence of those who have dealings with them.

Again I say that I believe the general public are not too concerned as long as it has not 'cost' them.