The Brits and the USA

by whitbyforklift on Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:21 pm

The only difference between us and our best friends across the pond is the words we and they say about the same thing.
For example we say boot they say trunk/we say bonnet,they say hood/we say rubber,they say eraser/we say negotiate they say BOMB THE B.......S. :afraid:

by astra on Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:33 pm

they cannot say or spell tomato, potato

by ROB on Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:15 am

astra wrote:they cannot say or spell tomato, potato

I cane to sae an spele "patayter" an "termayter!"

SEW THEIR!

by Shirina on Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:18 am

they cannot say or spell tomato, potato

Oh right ... forgot.

We should spell it 'poutato' and toumato'.

There, is that better? lol!

by GreatNPowerfulOz on Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:05 am

since when is "bombing the ....." not negotiating...?

by oftenwrong on Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:09 am

Two great nations separated by a common language.

by **Ivan** on Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:53 am

“The only difference between us and our best friends across the pond is the words we and they say about the same thing.”

It’s not the only difference. The USA was founded on the rights of people. In the UK we’ve had to fight for our rights over centuries, and they’ve usually only been obtained because of pressure from outside of Parliament forcing it to legislate for change.

The USA has always elected its Head of State, we’ve never had that right.

Americans have the right to own a gun, we don’t.

The USA is the only developed nation where religion is still taken seriously. As Shirina has said, it’s highly unlikely that an atheist could become President. In the UK, less than 2% of the population attend what is supposed to be our ‘established’ church.

The USA has been a multiracial country throughout almost all of its history, but it’s a relatively new concept for us.

Around 36 states in the USA allow for the death penalty, something which was abolished in the UK in the 1960s.

Need I go on? I’m sure others could add plenty more differences.....

by astra on Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:10 pm

They drive on the wrong side of the road

by oftenwrong on Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:47 pm

........ and put syrup on their fried bacon

by ROB on Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:20 pm

Ivan wrote:
“The only difference between us and our best friends across the pond is the words we and they say about the same thing.”

It’s not the only difference. The USA was founded on the rights of people. In the UK we’ve had to fight for our rights over centuries, and they’ve usually only been obtained because of pressure from outside of Parliament forcing it to legislate for change.

It occurred to me on 4 July 2011 that the United States of America is the only country in history founded upon this idea, first expressed by a document entitled “The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America (In Congress, July 4, 1776)” (note lowercase “u”), commonly called the Declaration of Independence (view copy: http://www.ushistory.org/Declaration/document/index.htm), in these words…

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…”

… which are of historic, cultural, and political significance to every Locke-ian country in our 21st Century, most specifically (in alphabetical order) Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and your United Kingdom, whose England birthed and gifted unto our world one John Locke, author of John Locke’s Second Treatise of Civil Government, 1690, from which the slave-owner and primary author of the exquisitely eloquent words quoted above drew ideas, concepts, and principles.

The “circle of life” expresses a truth of existence. I believe the “circle of Creator-endowed unalienable/inalienable human rights”, endowed (gifted) unto all men by a higher power such that these rights are indisparagable by any man, council of men, or governments instituted among men (man/men gender inclusive throughout) also expresses a truth of existence. The Arab spring revolts which swept thought the Middle East like a western prairie wildfire were (and are) all fueled by humankind’s insatiable desire to govern themselves in such a way as to secure indisparagable rights unto themselves.

This “circle of Creator-endowed unalienable/inalienable human rights”, in my opinion, began its march through human history in 1215, in a sunny meadow called Runnymede, when a despotic king signed a document placing himself under rather superior to the law. The circle continued developing, unevenly, in spurts and retreats, through English, Scottish, Welsh, and Irish history until Locke “codified” the ideas, concepts, and principles generated through four hundred seventy-five years of painful, blood-splattered evolution in his 1690 treatise.

Thus, without the United Kingdom’s then five hundred sixty-one year long contribution (1215 AD – 1776 AD) and now seven hundred ninety-six year long contribution (1215 Ad – 2011 AD), “it ain’t happenin’”, at least in my opinion. “Props” given where “props” are due, so hold on to your hat.

I thank y’all from the deepest regions of my heart for my American Democracy, founded upon the idea, forged through centuries of y’all’s history at considerable human cost, that all men, gender, “race”/ethnicity, religion/non-religion, national origin inclusive, possess unalienable/inalienable rights endowed unto them by a higher power such that these human rights are indisparagable by any man, councils of men, or governments instituted among men.

We’re in this together. Sir Winston Churchill, the very imperfect greatest hero of the 20th Century (my firmly-held opinion, of course) said as much during the post-World War II period; who am I to argue with the little round man with a cigar wearing the funny-looking hats and caps who saved the world?

Ivan wrote:
The USA has been a multiracial country throughout almost all of its history, but it’s a relatively new concept for us.

We've struggled with this since inception. I know the names of two ancestors who were of the last generation to be counted as three-fifths a person in the US Census of the Population. William Wilberforce is one of my personal heroes.

Ivan wrote:
Around 36 states in the USA allow for the death penalty, something which was abolished in the UK in the 1960s.

My native country, the Great Sovereign State of Texas, is the proud standard bearer of this necessary component of justice, the problem of which has always been its application rather than its existence. Please see my initiating and so far lonely post in the "Injustice" thread for excellent illumination of this problem, while remaining aware that Lawrence brewer, the lead beast amongst three who chained a man to the back of a pickup truck and dragged him to death, received justice at his execution.

by gator on Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:29 pm

I believe it was that great American pundit Mark Twain who said "Of course the sun never sets on the British Empire. God would never trust an Englishman in the dark."

And now back to our regularly scheduled programing on potato vs potahto

gator

by **Ivan** on Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:41 pm

My native country, the Great Sovereign State of Texas, is the proud standard bearer of this necessary component of justice, the problem of which has always been its application rather than its existence

Rock. If the death penalty didn’t exist, there wouldn’t be any “problems” with its application. You claim to support the death penalty, yet you were as opposed as I was to the racially-motivated judicial murder of Troy Davis in Georgia on very shaky evidence.

What’s the point of the death penalty? Revenge? It won’t bring back the deceased. Deterrent? No real evidence to support that theory. The reason that the death penalty was abolished in the UK in the 1960s – and in most of the civilised world – was that it had been applied arbitrarily and there had been some terrible mistakes.

I don’t want my government killing people in my name, and that’s one of only a handful of reasons why I’m proud to be British. I associate the death penalty with tyrants – Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mugabe, Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi, and that nice Mr Ironmydinnerjacket in Iran – not with liberal and social democracies.

Boxing champion Dewey Bozella, who is now 52, spent 26 years in New York state's Sing Sing jail for a murder he did not commit, before being freed in 2009. I bet he’s pleased that he didn’t live in Texas, which when I last checked was a state not a country.

by oftenwrong on Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:31 pm

There are still pitfalls for the unwary in American English versus British English. Having cured a Texan friend of referring to the defeated Spanish Fleet as The Armayda, we didn't have the heart to stop him telling us about the time he visited Shakespeare's birthplace of Stratford-on-Arvon.

by ROB on Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:07 am

Ivan,

Ivan wrote:
Rock. If the death penalty didn’t exist, there wouldn’t be any “problems” with its application.

If murder didn’t exist, there wouldn’t be any “problems” with the application of the death penalty because there wouldn’t be anyone sentenced to death.

Ivan wrote:
You claim to support the death penalty, yet you were as opposed as I was to the racially-motivated judicial murder of Troy Davis in Georgia on very shaky evidence.

I not only claim to support the death penalty, I do in fact support the death penalty. I abhor its historic application in every Locke-ian nation, as we (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States) share a common socio-political-cultural heritage which requires that a person be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, in a fair trial in which the accused person’s inalienable right to due process, including competent legal counsel, is ensured.

Neither Troy Davis nor Ruben “Hurricane” Carter (see below) were accorded these rights to which by right they had a right. The only differences, in these cases, and they were and are significant differences, are (1) Hurricane received maximum prison time while Try Davis received death, and (2) Hurricane was exonerated while officials of the Georgia injustice system refused to accord Troy Davis this wee bit of delayed justice.

When and if prosecutors nationwide, and indeed world-wide, begin emulating Dallas County (Texas) District Attorney Craig Watkins and (1) seek justice rather than high conviction rates, and (2) become smart on crime instead of tough on crime, such injustices will disappear.

Ivan wrote:
What’s the point of the death penalty? Revenge?

Insofar as Lawrence Russell Brewer and John William King are concerned, “works for me” (see “The rest of the story” below).

Ivan wrote:
What’s the point of the death penalty? Deterrent? No real evidence to support that theory.

Lawrence Russell Brewer is permanently deterred from ever again chaining an innocent human to the back of a pickup truck and to death and dragging him to death. Upon his execution for the same crime, which can’t come soon enough, John William King will also be permanently deterred from ever again chaining an innocent human to the back of a pickup truck and to death and dragging him to death.

Ivan wrote:
I don’t want my government killing people in my name, and that’s one of only a handful of reasons why I’m proud to be British.

I do want my government, the government of the Sovereign State of Texas, killing beasts in my name, beasts such as Lawrence Russell Brewer (see “The rest of the story” below), whose absence from my native country benefits civilized society in Texas, the United Estates (also my country), and the civilized world.

Ivan wrote:
I associate the death penalty with tyrants – Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mugabe, Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi, and that nice Mr Ironmydinnerjacket in Iran – not with liberal and social democracies.

I associate the death penalty with ridding my native country, the Great Sovereign State of Texas (see below), of Lawrence Russell Brewer (see “The rest of the story” below), guilty beyond a reasonable doubt unto a moral certainty of murder and “LWE.”

May God have compassion on Brewer’s soul, because my compassion, poured out for James Byrd Jr. and his loved one, has been exhausted.

Ivan wrote:
Boxing champion Dewey Bozella, who is now 52, spent 26 years in New York state's Sing Sing jail for a murder he did not commit, before being freed in 2009. I bet he’s pleased that he didn’t live in Texas…

As was the case with Ruben “Hurricane” Carter, the problem was, and is, not with the death penalty, it was, and is, with the de facto injustice of the de jure New York and New Jersey criminal “justice” systems.

Ruben “Hurricane” Carter - Bob Dylan
http://www.youtube.com/v/YngpWylqQ3A

Comments by Dallas District Attorney Craig Watkins speaking honestly.

Dallas District Attorney Craig Watkins
http://www.youtube.com/v/C5VvngXQI1g

Ruben “Hurricane” Carter, guilty of “DWB” and indeed “LWB” (see below).

I assume you’ve listened to Craig Watkins other videos. A little background: Former Dallas County (Texas) District Attorney Henry Wade set a low standard to which succeeding District Attorneys slavishly adhered; when faced with a murder, particularly the murder of a white woman or a peace officer (remember Savannah, Georgia and Troy Davis), or rape, particularly the rape of a white woman, if the guilty party is not readily apparent, then find a convenient “n****r” and pin it on him.

Then along came Craig Watkins, the first Black District Attorney in Texas history, and the first Dallas County District Attorney in my cognizant lifetime who has chosen to seek justice rather than seek a high number of convictions and conviction rate, and suddenly, since Watkins’ election in 2006 or 2007, innocent men, some incarcerated for decades, are free.

Like Bozella and Hurricane, these innocent men should never have been convicted and incarcerated in the first place. And, to turn up the fire just a wee bit, every single exoneree represents a heinous crime unsolved and thus a heinous criminal left free to roam the streets and commit more atrocities against civilized society.

That’s the problem, my friend, not the death penalty, but the “innocence penalty”, the penalty exacted upon and against innocent persons who happen to be convenient when “zealous” prosecutors eager to add another notch to their six-guns need a convenient “n****r” upon whom to “pin the rap.”

Many of my “mates” and I share an “in-joke” which I’ll now share cross-pond. When driving in, let’s say, Beverly Hills, and your last name is neither Poitier nor Cosby nor Davis Jr. nor Belafonte nor (Denzel) Washington, you are at high risk of being stopped, questioned, and very possibly ticketed or arrested for the dread crime, “DWB.”

“DWB?” That’s “Driving While Black”, something to be avoided at all costs in Beverly Hills and other posh-posh American USV locales. And it’s not theoretical; I’ve been stopped for DWB at least four times in my life.

Hurricane’s other crime? Ruben “Hurricane” Carter was also guilty of “LWB”, which is “Living While Black.”

Thankfully, like the “innocence penalty”, prosecution for “DWB” has diminished significantly in recent years, as has prosecution for “LWB”, but we’ve a long way to go before “liberty and justice for all”, the promise of America, biomes a reality for all Americans.

Ivan wrote:
… Texas, which when I last checked was a state not a country.

Au contraire, my brother, in the precise sense of both words. Because we use the word “state” within a federal context (as do Australians), Americans USV often are unaware of the sovereignty conveyed by the word, a sovereignty that renders “state” and “country” synonymous. For instance, the official English name of Israel is “State of Israel”, and I don’t think anyone misunderstands the claim to sovereignty inherent in that nomenclature.

Besides, the Texas Tourist Bureau’s oft-seen and oft-quoted video states in no uncertain terms, “Texas: A whole other country.”

Addendum: The rest of the story.

Here’s the reason for the death penalty, a reason seldom contemplated by those who do not familiarize themselves with the esteem in which, as humans, they are held by their Creator.

“Whosoever sheds man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed, for in the image of God made he man.”

“Thou shall not murder.”

“Let every person be subject to the higher powers (governing authorities). For there is no authority except from God, and the powers that be are ordained of (established by) God. Therefore whosoever resists [true] authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.”

“For rulers are not a cause of terror for good works, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same, for the authority is a minister of God to you for good.”

“But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for the authority does not bear the sword in vain, for the authority is a minister of God, an avenger who executes wrath upon the one that practices evil.”

And now this righteous application of the death penalty:

Hate crime killer executed
By ALLAN TURNER, HOUSTON CHRONICLE
Updated 07:57 a.m., Thursday, 22 September 2011

HUNTSVILLE - … Lawrence Russell Brewer was executed Wednesday for the 1998 Jasper dragging murder of James Byrd Jr. - a racially motivated killing that stunned the nation.

"My understanding is he had no remorse, he was unrepentant," [Clara] Taylor [Byrd's sister] said.

Byrd, 49, was abducted as he walked along a Jasper road, beaten, urinated on and dragged about 2 miles behind a pickup by log chains attached to his ankles.

He was decapitated when his body struck a culvert.
Brewer and his accomplices, John William King and Shawn Allen Berry, dumped their victim's mangled body at an African-American cemetery and went to eat barbecue.

Full story: http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Hate-crime-killer-executed-2182684.php

Had the Sovereign State of Texas needed my services, I would have inserted the syringe into his body and depressed the plunger while staring directly at his eyes.

Lawrence Russell Brewer, may you express your sentiments (when asked ho he felt about dragging James Byrd Jr. to death, he reportedly answered, “I have no regrets”) to he who created Byrd, Jr., who you annihilated and whose remains you tossed to the side of a country road, between a church building and a cemetery, like useless garbage.

by oftenwrong on Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:45 pm

But the Capo de tutti Capi is for the first time ever, a Black President.

THAT's what the Tea Party is all about, not Politics or Economics.

by thatcher on Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:21 pm

The yanks and the Brits have a great deal in common but also a great deal that seperates us. Religious faith has already been mentioned but it twin brother individual liberty is another. In the US you will find a great degree of antipathy toward the federal gov. Perhaps that is because the US is comparatively so much larger than the UK and people live thousands of miles from the seat of power in DC, but I also think there is a in your face revolutionary spirit that has survived all these years directed toward the federal gov't and a distrust of their power that has survived despite FDR's great attempt to change that. Even the Conservatives in the UK seem to embrace the power of the gov't and it "unnatural right" to control. It makes for the difference between an American conservative and a UK conservative. Your conservatives would be considered moderates or center left (not leftists) over here.

by oftenwrong on Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:35 pm

Attitudes to layers of Government have not changed since Colonial days.
Citizens are well aware that every stratum of bureaucracy imposes taxes to ensure its continued existence.

Great fleas have smaller fleas, upon their backs to bite 'em. and so it goes ad infinitum

by Curious Cdn on Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:00 pm

.. don't forget all of those I.Q points ...

by Curious Cdn on Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:00 pm

Great fleas have smaller fleas, upon their backs to bite 'em. and little fleas have lesser fleas and so it goes ad infinitum

by oftenwrong on Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:36 pm

Welcome indeed, Curious Cdn. You can be the arbiter of US mores where they differ from those of the Mother Country.

by Curious Cdn on Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:02 pm

Well, first of all, you had better stop using big words like "mores".

You may not even bother finishing clauses.

Or speling wel.

by dimsum on Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:22 pm

Ivan wrote:
My native country, the Great Sovereign State of Texas, is the proud standard bearer of this necessary component of justice, the problem of which has always been its application rather than its existence
Rock. If the death penalty didn’t exist, there wouldn’t be any “problems” with its application. You claim to support the death penalty, yet you were as opposed as I was to the racially-motivated judicial murder of Troy Davis in Georgia on very shaky evidence.

What’s the point of the death penalty? Revenge? It won’t bring back the deceased. Deterrent? No real evidence to support that theory. The reason that the death penalty was abolished in the UK in the 1960s – and in most of the civilised world – was that it had been applied arbitrarily and there had been some terrible mistakes.

I don’t want my government killing people in my name, and that’s one of only a handful of reasons why I’m proud to be British. I associate the death penalty with tyrants – Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mugabe, Saddam Hussein, Gaddafi, and that nice Mr Ironmydinnerjacket in Iran – not with liberal and social democracies.

Boxing champion Dewey Bozella, who is now 52, spent 26 years in New York state's Sing Sing jail for a murder he did not commit, before being freed in 2009. I bet he’s pleased that he didn’t live in Texas, which when I last checked was a state not a country.

I also disagree with the death penalty. To me it is legalized murder. Too many people hve been released from death row because they were innocent. To me one innocent man being executed is one to many. Can you even imagine what your family would go through if you were sentenced to dath for something you did not do? I remember some head guy in Texas once said innocence is not s defense against the death penalty. To me that says it all and the great (so-called) stae of Texas is nothing to be proud of.

by jstnay on Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:38 pm

I wrote something and previewed it, then lost it. Where is spell check, please. Thanks

by **Ivan** on Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:08 pm

Welcome to the forum, jstnay. I'm sorry to read that you lost your first message. If you intend to write more than a couple of sentences, it's safer to prepare it in 'Word' (and save it as you proceed) in case of any glitches when you try posting it. Fortunately, problems like that don't occur too often.

I'm not aware of a spell check facility on this forum, but if any of the members have found one, perhaps they could let us know!

by oftenwrong on Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:01 pm

http://help.forumotion.com/

provides a sort of path to a "suggestion box" to add new features.

http://help.forumotion.com/t74271-spell-check?highlight=spelling+check indicates previous interest in the subject.

Personally, I'd let sleeping dogs lie. Nobody knows what will happen when you stir up Head Office.

by Curious Cdn on Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:31 pm

I also disagree with the death penalty. To me it is legalized murder.

I doesn't work either. Juristictions that have the death penalty often have much higher murder rates. Just compare the U.S. murder rate with that of the U.K. ... or the culturally closer Canada, where it is one tenth of that of the U.S. per capita. State sanctioned murder seems to encourage other types of murder.

by jackthelad on Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:00 pm

State sanctioned murder seems to encourage other types of murder

I wonder what other types of murder there are, intensionally killing someone is murder, the only kind i know or can think of.
Accidentally killing someone, when you never meant to, but they died of your actions is manslaughter, not classed as murder.
Assisted suicide, where you help someone to kill themselves, is not classed as murder.
But someone dies in all three cases, all criminal actions according to the law.

I am still all for hanging certain types of murderers, such as serial killers and pedophile child killers, we seem to have a few off these locked up at the taxpayers expence.
Some murderers have been jailed, released, then have killed again, i believe there are too many bleeding hearts in this world. They might have a change of heart if it was their son, daughter, brother or sister that was murdered.

by oftenwrong on Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:35 pm

Logic suggests that once a State adopts judicial murder as a response to individual criminal acts, it has lost the argument, and certainly surrendered the moral high-ground.

by astra on Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:37 pm

I am still all for hanging certain types of murderers, such as serial killers and pedophile child killers,

Please add, those who kill a police officer in uniform - ie Yvonne Fletcher (RIP) and killing a British Soldier in uniform - ie those who killed the 2 squaddies who were getting their pizzaa's from thw barrack gates in nothern ireland 2 years ago!

by ROB on Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:41 pm

astra wrote:
I am still all for hanging certain types of murderers, such as serial killers and pedophile child killers,

Please add, those who kill a police officer in uniform - ie Yvonne Fletcher (RIP) and killing a British Soldier in uniform - ie those who killed the 2 squaddies who were getting their pizzaa's from thw barrack gates in nothern ireland 2 years ago!

Astra,

Send those beasts to Texas. We don’t take kindly to murderers of police officers and soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines.

by oftenwrong on Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:55 pm

What does wearing a Uniform say about the wearer?

by astra on Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:14 pm

That's why I did not say "those in uniform"

Pub 'bouncers' get all the trouble they deserve! Twisted Evil

Just as well, car clampers do not seem to wear uniforms!

by Shirina on Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:01 pm

Juristictions that have the death penalty often have much higher murder rates. Just compare the U.S. murder rate with that of the U.K

I don't think that has anything to do with the death penalty. I think it has more to do with the ideology of the political Right that causes more people to become desperate enough to become criminals. Almost all of the states that still uses the death penalty are states which traditionally vote conservative.

by oftenwrong on Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:30 pm

What, if anything, is wrong with people adopting a standard appearance?

by astra on Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:52 pm

I say you all dress as Gaylord, in the Dick Emery sketches!

by tlttf on Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:42 am

I guess this could only happen in the USA.... PH
Murder with a Twist - this is good - a must read!

A true and bizarre tale ..

For those who have served on jury... This one is something to think about... Just when you think you have heard everything!!

Do you like to read a good murder mystery? Not even Law and Order would attempt to capture this mess. This is an unbelievable twist of fate!!!!

At the 1994 annual awards dinner given for Forensic Science, (AAFS) President Dr. Don Harper Mills astounded his audience with the legal complications of a bizarre death. Here is the story:

On March 23, 1994....... The medical examiner viewed the body of Ronald Opus, and concluded that he died from a shotgun wound to the head. Mr. Opus had jumped from the top of a ten-story building intending to commit suicide.. He left a note to the effect indicating his despondency. As he fell past the ninth floor, his life was interrupted by a shotgun blast passing through a window, which killed him instantly. Neither the shooter nor the deceased was aware that a safety net had been installed just below the eighth floor level to protect some building workers and that Ronald Opus would not have been able to complete his suicide the way he had planned.

The room on the ninth floor, where the shotgun blast emanated, was occupied by an elderly man and his wife. They were arguing vigorously and he was threatening her with a shotgun! The man was so upset that when he pulled the trigger, he completely missed his wife, and the pellets went through the window, striking Mr. Opus. When one intends to kill subject 'A' but kills subject 'B' in the attempt, one is guilty of the murder of subject 'B.' When confronted with the murder charge, the old man and his wife were both adamant, and both said that they thought the shotgun was not loaded. The old man said it was a long-standing habit to threaten his wife with the unloaded shotgun. He had no in tention to murder her. Therefore the killing of Mr.Opus appeared to be an accident; that is, assuming the gun had been accidentally loaded..

The continuing investigation turned up a witness who saw the old couple's son loading the shotgun about six weeks prior to the fatal accident..

It transpired that the old lady had cut off her son's financial support and the son, knowing the propensity of his father to use the shotgun threateningly, loaded the gun with the expectation that his father would shoot his mother.

Since the loader of the gun was aware of this, he was guilty of the murder even though he didn't actually pull the trigger. The case now becomes one of murder on the part of the son for the death of Ronald Opus.

Now comes the exquisite twist.. Further investigation revealed that the son was, in fact, Ronald Opus. He had become increasingly despondent over the failure of his attempt to engineer his mother's murder. This led him to jump off the ten-story building on March 23rd, only to be killed by a shotgun
Blast passing through the ninth story window.

The son, Ronald Opus, had actually murdered himself. So the medical examiner closed the case as a suicide.

A true story from Associated Press

by oftenwrong on Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:19 pm

Capped only by the recent story of a man who "died in Police custody" being held for several years in the mortuary with the identity of a female.

by bambu on Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:41 am

The premeditated, cold-blooded homiciding of human beings in death chambers is not in any way civilised.

It's barbaric.

It's barbaric in China, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia,...and it's barbaric in Texas and other states of the America.

There are 700+ people on death row in California waiting the day they'll be put into the govt's sparkling new death chambers...[they've renovated the gas chamber too]...and exterminated.

Oh so much like Auschwitz.

Statistics show that as many as 100 of them could be innocent.

by Shirina on Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:11 pm

Oh so much like Auschwitz.

I think that kind of comparison is a bit excessive.

by oftenwrong on Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:34 pm

It's the same bathos people use when offended by some Official, and the "Hitler" word comes out.

Like Peter and the wolf, it rapidly becomes devalued.

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