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Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

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Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by Scarecrow on Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:27 am

The historical reason for this requirement is that some of the founders feared that a foreigner - with suspect loyalty despite citizenship - might become commander-in-chief of the army (and navy, etc.)
Whether founded or not, their fear was for the loyalty of someone at the helm of state without deep connections to the country. I think at the time their might have been some justification for this. Current statute would seem to imply that this reasoning holds today. The US Code extends natural born citizenship to someone born of one US citizen parent, regardless of place of birth; however that person must have resided in the United States for at least one continuous year prior to the child's birth. This would thus obviate a line of citizenry who have lived only under foreign regimes.

There were many Republicans who were in favor of overturning the the above , regarding  Arnold Alois Schwarzenegger  :affraid:  Whats the old saying '' Only In America''   Laughing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause_of_the_U.S._Constitution
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:13 am


Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for President?

United States Constitution, Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by astradt1 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:46 pm



Roc quoted:-
United States Constitution, Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

So by this Article a non natural born citizen can become US President.....

The first lines state clearly that No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President

Just remind us when was the constitution adopted.....

?1776ish?

Thats a long time ago, so either all presidents since say 1830 were illegal or anyone who is a US citizen can stand for election....
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:33 am

astradt1 wrote:


Roc quoted:-
United States Constitution, Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
So by this Article a non natural born citizen can become US President.....

Of course, as long as that non-natural-born citizen was “a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution.”

astradt1 wrote:
The first lines state clearly that No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President

That’s exactly what the quoted lines state.

astradt1 wrote:
Just remind us when was the constitution adopted.....

You are neither royalty nor plural; thus, I’ll remind “you”, not “us.”

Circa 1789. I choose 15 December 1791, as that is the ratification date of amendments one through ten, the Bill of Rights. You are free to choose slightly earlier dates, some of which exclude some of the original thirteen states, since ratification of the United States Constitution did not require ratification by all thirteen original states.

astradt1 wrote:
?1776ish?

Nope. 4 July 1776 is the publication date of the Declaration of Independence.

astradt1 wrote:
Thats a long time ago…

Yep.

astradt1 wrote:
… so either all presidents since say 1830 were illegal…

Note emboldened, italicized text:
__________________________________________________________________________________________

United States Constitution, Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5:

No person except a natural born Citizenshall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
__________________________________________________________________________________________


astradt1 wrote:
… or anyone who is a US citizen can stand for election....

Once again, note emboldened, italicized text:
__________________________________________________________________________________________

United States Constitution, Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5:

No person except a natural born Citizenshall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

That’s as clear as natural spring water. Unless one was alive at time of the adoption of the United States Constitution, one must be (a) a natural born citizen of the United States of America, (b) thirty-five years of age or older, and (c) been a resident within the United States of America fourteen years or more.
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by astradt1 on Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:00 pm

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution,

Nice to see that the later copies of the constitution have been amended but fail to identify this fact........


If you feel the need to be pendantic you should also try and be consistant in your posts.....
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:24 pm

astradt1 wrote:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution,

Nice to see that the later copies of the constitution have been amended but fail to identify this fact........

Are you referring, perhaps, to Amendments 1 through 27? If so, I agree; it is indeed nice to see that later copies of the United States Constitution have been amended to reflect the fact that the United States Constitution has been amended twenty-seven (27) times.

astradt1 wrote:
If you feel the need to be pendantic…

I do not now “feel the need to be pedantic”, I have never felt “the need to be pedantic”, and I do not plan to “feel the need to be pedantic” at any time in the future; accordingly, the remainder of this conditional statement does not apply to me. I have taken the liberty to correct the spelling of the word “pedantic.”

Good evening to you, sir.
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by astradt1 on Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:02 pm

It's always nice to be able to rely on some posters to totally miss the point of a post...........

When I was talking about amendments I was of course referring to your ommiting the words I highlighted from YOUR reply.....

I wonder if it was an ommission due to there not being some 'supporting'site which you were able to quote from?

It is clear from your final 'dismissal' that you feel you have not found resources with which to back up your 'point of view'......

But then again that is just my opinion..............
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:32 pm

QUOTE:

"Circa 1789. I choose 15 December 1791, as that is the ratification date of amendments one through ten, the Bill of Rights. You are free to choose slightly earlier dates, some of which exclude some of the original thirteen states, since ratification of the United States Constitution did not require ratification by all thirteen original states. "

It might have taken an ordinary person the entire time elapsed between 1789 and 2012 to accumulate sufficient wealth to contest a Presidential Election in The USA.
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:18 am

oftenwrong wrote:

QUOTE:

"Circa 1789. I choose 15 December 1791, as that is the ratification date of amendments one through ten, the Bill of Rights. You are free to choose slightly earlier dates, some of which exclude some of the original thirteen states, since ratification of the United States Constitution did not require ratification by all thirteen original states. "
It might have taken an ordinary person the entire time elapsed between 1789 and 2012 to accumulate sufficient wealth to contest a Presidential Election in The USA.

Unfortunately, you are probably right. The only thing that seems to be keeping Romney “alive” is megabucks.
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:04 am

astradt1 wrote:
When I was talking about amendments I was of course referring to your ommiting the words I highlighted from YOUR reply.....

You don’t understand why I chose to not repost a certain portion of Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5 of the United States Constitution which I posted in its entirety (as exhibited below) in the first response in this thread?
RockOnBrother wrote:
Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for President?
by RockOnBrother on Tue 13 Mar 2012 - 4:13

Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for President?
United States Constitution, Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t406-why-can-t-non-natural-born-us-citizens-run-for-president#13136
I appreciate you clearing that up.

First of all, a correction in your terminology: Amendments to the United States Constitution cannot be added by one individual such as RockOnBrother (me). Amendments to the United States Constitution require two thirds vote of each house of the United States Congress and three fourths vote of the several sovereign states.

As to your not understanding why I chose to not repost a certain portion of Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5 of the United States Constitution, that portion, for which I chose to substitute an ellipsis (…), I chose to do so because that portion of Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5…
____________________________________________________________

“… or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution…”
____________________________________________________________

.. applies solely to United States citizens who were alive circa 1789 (whatever the actual official date of adoption of the United States Constitution might be). Accordingly, anyone to which this portion of Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5 might apply today would be at least two hundred twenty something years of age. Since at last report the oldest human alive today is less than half that age, that portion of Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5 applies to no person alive today.

If you wish to reference a portion of Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5 that applies to no living person in your discussion of eligibility for the office of President of the United States of America of persons alive today, you are, of course, free to do so.

astradt1 wrote:
I wonder if it was an ommission due to there not being some 'supporting'site which you were able to quote from?

Wonder no more. See the detailed explanation above.

astradt1 wrote:
It is clear from your final 'dismissal' that you feel you have not found resources with which to back up your 'point of view'......

No it is not. See the details above.

astradt1 wrote:
But then again that is just my opinion..............

Your opinion is incorrect. See the details above.

Good morning to you, sir.
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by astradt1 on Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:41 pm

.. applies solely to United States citizens who were alive circa 1789 (whatever the actual official date of adoption of the United States Constitution might be). Accordingly, anyone to which this portion of Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5 might apply today would be at least two hundred twenty something years of age. Since at last report the oldest human alive today is less than half that age, that portion of Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5 applies to no person alive today.

If you wish to reference a portion of Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5 that applies to no living person in your discussion of eligibility for the office of President of the United States of America of persons alive today, you are, of course, free to do so.


I thought for a moment that you had finally understood that a document written hunderds of years ago was not the font of all laws...But alas I was mistaken....

The US, idea that there was only 'Black and White', 'Right or wrong' with no shades of gray allowed in US thinking jumped to the fore again.........

This thread was started to 'question' the fact that many in the US believe that it is impossible for anyone born outside to the USA becoming President but form the quotes so far posted the restriction was most likely placed there to stop Brits from going over there and taking over during the early years of the country......

Whilst you, Roc, like to feel that you are stating 'facts' some of your post are more down to your personal interpertation of those 'facts'......

Some of the posters on here are willing to post our opinions in order to challenge those 'facts' and as such I would ask, who are you to say my opinion is incorrect?
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:08 pm

astradt1 wrote:

.. applies solely to United States citizens who were alive circa 1789 (whatever the actual official date of adoption of the United States Constitution might be). Accordingly, anyone to which this portion of Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5 might apply today would be at least two hundred twenty something years of age. Since at last report the oldest human alive today is less than half that age, that portion of Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5 applies to no person alive today.

If you wish to reference a portion of Article II, Section 1, Paragraph 5 that applies to no living person in your discussion of eligibility for the office of President of the United States of America of persons alive today, you are, of course, free to do so.
I thought for a moment that you had finally understood that a document written hunderds of years ago was not the font of all laws...But alas I was mistaken....

Yes sir, you are indeed mistaken, but not in the manner which you incorrectly assert. Contrary to your erroneous implication, the Constitution of the United States of America, a document written and ratified more than two hundred twenty years ago, is in fact “” in the United States of America.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

United States Constitution, Article VI, Paragraph 2

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

As can easily be read and understood, the United States Constitution “shall be the supreme Law of the Land.”

astradt1 wrote:
This thread was started to 'question' the fact that many in the US believe that it is impossible for anyone born outside to the USA becoming President…

This thread’s topic consists of this question, “Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for President?” I have answered the question.

Notice that the thread topic speaks not at all of “'question[ing]' the fact that many in the US believe that it is impossible for anyone born outside to the USA becoming President”, as “natural born” and “born outside to the USA” are different phrases.

astradt1 wrote:
… but form the quotes so far posted the restriction was most likely placed there to stop Brits from going over there and taking over during the early years of the country......

Nothing in the thread topic references any of the content referenced above.

astradt1 wrote:
Whilst you, Roc, like to feel that you are stating 'facts'…

What I might or might not “like to feel” notwithstanding, everything I have stated on this thread concerning the Constitution of the United States of America is factual. In fact, facts have nothing whatsoever to do with what you, I, or anyone else might or might not “like to feel.”

astradt1 wrote:
… some of your post are more down to your personal interpertation of those 'facts'......

My post content regarding the United States Constitution on this thread consists solely of facts regarding the United States Constitution.

Good evening to you, sir.
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by bobby on Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:30 pm

Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for President?

Could it be because America is the home of the brave and the land of the Free, or something equally inaccurate, I mean how long has it been since African Americans could travel on a bus next to a white person. How long has it been since the African American has been able to vote in the US. How long was it that a Native American could own land, How long has it been that an African American could eat in a restaurant of his choice. The nation is full of hypocrisy, and Rockonbrother it seems has swallowed the lot. Rock will spout off reams of information, but much of it has through the years meant nothing, it has just been words.

As a matter of interest Rock, do you get invited to many parties?
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:53 pm

Please delete


Last edited by RockOnBrother on Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by astradt1 on Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:57 pm

So roc you have no answer of YOUR own?

YOU agian have to let others do the talking for you..

Have you ever had an opinion of YOUR own?

This post now relates to the one following it due to an edit by Roc!!!!!!!


Last edited by astradt1 on Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Attempt to keep the flow of posts!!!!!)
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by Guest on Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:11 am

bobby wrote:
… African Americans… African American… African American…

A Black American – Smokey Robinson
http://www.youtube.com/v/iIkNsj6cDGc

Mighty Mighty (Spade and Whitey) – Curtis Mayfield and The Impressions
http://www.youtube.com/v/u7Rdr22dBPE

This Is My Country – Curtis Mayfield and The Impressions
http://www.youtube.com/v/z_esbRoOeR0

Smokey and Curtis speak from my heart.


Last edited by RockOnBrother on Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:46 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

Post by bobby on Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:33 pm

Rockonbrother. What are you implying by your nonsensical post:

… African Americans… African American… African American…

Then displaying some Black American USV’s. What the bloody hell is that all about.
If you put your brain into gear before opening your gob, you will see I have also mentioned another Race of people, even more harshly treated by the US Wasps, I refer of course to the Native American, but I see you have no thought for then so discard it.
Roc, when are you going to answer a question, instead of giving out list upon list of meaningless drivel.
I am still waiting for an explanation about that pornographic photo you put on another thread depicting a Black woman who appears to have been hung. Or is that Hanging Black woman no longer an issue for you.
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Re: Why can't non-natural born U.S. citizens run for president?

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