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Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

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Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by ROB on Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:46 am

First topic message reminder :


BBC NEWS ASIA
12 March 2012 Last updated at 13:01 ET

How it happened: Massacre in Kandahar

In the pre-dawn hours of Sunday, a US soldier stationed at a base in Afghanistan's Kandahar province allegedly launched a single-handed gun attack on nearby Afghan villagers

The soldier… is said to have broken into three homes in three different locations in Panjwai district - the villages of Alkozai and Najeeban and another settlement known locally as "Ibrahim Khan Houses".

… by the end of the attack, 16 people, nine of them children, were dead and five wounded. Some of the bodies had been set on fire.

Full BBC print story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17334643
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Should the perpetrator be tried in Afghanistan?

Yes. Upon apprehension and positive identification, he should be handed over to Afghan authorities as soon as possible. As a U.S. serviceman who has spit and defecated upon his uniform and his country, he deserves no consideration whatsoever from U.S. authorities. Insofar as I’m concerned, he abdicated U.S. citizenship when he murdered the first innocent soul.


Should the perpetrator be executed?

Yes. If Afghan authorities do not do so, then he should be tried under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Upon conviction, he should be speedily executed by whatever means are available under UCMJ.

As soon as I find his name, I’ll post it on this thread. There is no excuse, there is no “reason why”, there is no acceptable explanation. This is despicable, immoral bestiality, pure and simple, and this beast deserves to be removed from existence as soon as is possible given whatever constraints of due process are necessary.


Note: BBC News is the United Kingdom’s gift to people worldwide who want real news.
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:35 pm

Christian interpretation of the Biblical passage has been heavily influenced by the quotation from Leviticus in Jesus of Nazareth's Sermon on the Mount. In the Expounding of the Law (part of the Sermon on the Mount), Jesus urges his followers to turn the other cheek when confronted by violence: You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:38–39)

This saying of Jesus is frequently interpreted as criticism of the Old Testament teaching.

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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:14 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
Christian interpretation of the Biblical passage has been heavily influenced by the quotation from Leviticus in Jesus of Nazareth's Sermon on the Mount. In the Expounding of the Law (part of the Sermon on the Mount), Jesus urges his followers to turn the other cheek when confronted by violence: You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:38–39)

This saying of Jesus is frequently interpreted as criticism of the Old Testament teaching.

Jesus' words: “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches [i]others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:17-19).

The Law: “Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man” (Genesis 9:6).


Last edited by RockOnBrother on Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by Shirina on Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:17 pm

I see that Biblical cherry picking is still alive and well.
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:23 pm

Shirina wrote:
I see that Biblical cherry picking is still alive and well.

I do not engage in “Biblical cherry picking.”
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:00 pm

witchfinder wrote:
RockOnBrother

I do think that people are jumping the gun just a little, there is much we do not know about regarding the incident in Kandahar, there are certain rumours flying about which are been reported on CNN and other US sites.

I pay little attention to rumors, little attention to CNN, and no attention to Fox, or any Murdoch-tinged “news” outlet.

In stark contrast, I pay close attention to the Associated Press, Reuters, and especially BBC. I’ve checked BBC on line daily since 12 March, and I’ve seen nothing to dispute that this unnamed beast exterminated sixteen innocent humans.

witchfinder wrote:
For example - it is rumoured that this particular soldier suffered a traumatic brain injury in Iraq in 2010, if this proves to be true, then this in itself would lead to many questions been asked, like for example how and why was such a person allowed to continue serving. ?

That would lead me to desire that anyone who approved the beast’s deployment to Afghanistan be charged under UCMJ as an accessory before the fact to premeditated murder.

This does not mitigate the beast’s responsibility for exterminating sixteen innocent humans, an atrocity for which he richly deserves execution. If he was suffering, he should have killed himself. The fact that he cared enough about his own life to not take his own life provides overwhelmingly convincing evidence to me that he knew the value of human life (his own).

witchfinder wrote:
I do think RockOnBrother that you are a little bit intollerant of the idea that this incident could be the result of a man with a psychiatric problem, a mental break down or diminished responsibility.

I am intolerant of bestial extermination of sixteen innocent humans.

witchfinder wrote:
Such things can and do happen…

Then perpetrators of such things should be executed.

witchfinder wrote:
… it is a credible reason…

It is a credible reason for suicide, not for pre-meditated extermination of sixteen innocent humans.

witchfinder wrote:

… and it proves the point that not everything is simply black or white…

No, it does not. Extermination of sixteen innocent humans is “black or white”, or, better stated, “wrong or right.” It is either wrong or right to exterminate sixteen innocent human beings. Period.

witchfinder wrote:
.. there are often grey areas…

Sixteen exterminated innocent humans are not “grey”; they are dead.

witchfinder wrote:
… and unusual or exceptional circumstances.

Perhaps an unusual circumstance, but not an exceptional circumstance. The latter term implies that a circumstance warrants exceptional action of some sort. Sentencing a service member to death for pre-meditated murder under UCMJ is not an exceptional act; it is a prescribed act under UCMJ.

witchfinder wrote:
THINK ABOUT THIS > Would we lock up a 75 year old lady suffering from dementia because she stole something from a store or shop. ?

Stealing is not pre-meditated murder. A seventy-five year old woman suffering from dementia is not a soldier.


Last edited by RockOnBrother on Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:39 pm

.... and we still don't know the name of the man who some people seem to think should be executed ASAP.

Maybe The West does need a scapegoat to expiate our sins in the Middle East.
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by trevorw2539 on Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:38 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
trevorw2539 wrote:
Then all military personnel should be withdrawn immediately…

Why?

trevorw2539 wrote:
… before someone orders troops to shell another compound/vehicle containing women and children.

No one ordered the beast “to shell another compound/vehicle containing women and children.” Once again: Why?

trevorw2539 wrote:
That includes US and NATO troops.

Before NATO troops, including US and British troops, entered Afghanistan, women in Afghanistan were (1) forced to wear upside down trash baskets with mesh eye-views over their heads, (2) forbidden access to education, (3) terrorized, beaten, tortured, and maimed by males, and (4) murdered by males. This is not a complete list.

To lay responsibility for this extermination upon troops who liberated a people from Taliban oppression is to (1) individually insult every service member who has served honorably in Afghanistan, and (2) divert focus from the beast that chose to exterminate sixteen innocent humans. I will not participate in such multiple insults of honorable service members. I will not participate in diverting focus from the beast who committed sixteen pre-meditated murders.

Sorry. If you can't read my post carefully enough I can't really help. Tell me the difference between this individual killing 16 people and a tank shell killing 16 women and children. There is none. In either case 16 innocents lose their lives. The only difference is semantics. One is murder the other is war. The result the same.

I didn't say anything about someone ordering the 'beast' 'to shell another.....................'

Our troops have behaved with bravery and often with heroism. I do not denigrate their part. I was in the forces for a few years and wore the uniform with pride. I do question why we are there. Thousands have died in Zimbabwe and we do/did nothing. North Africa is a mess and all we do is give aid - not that I decry that. There are a dozen places in the world where our help is needed.

After all we have done, Afghan and Iraq want us out. An Iraqi said not long ago that his country was in a worse state than when Hussein was in power!

What have we given Afghanistan? Western Style Democracy. We gave/allowed the same to many African states and look at the mess many of them are in, or went through. Whether it will work for Iraqi and Afghani culture time will tell. I only hope it does. But the state of the Middle East doesn't give me hope.

If you think we have defeated the Taliban you are sadly mistaken. They will always be there. Whether they will ever gain enough power to return as before, who knows. I am sure that there are many Taliban in the Afghani army and police force. What effect will they have?

The 'beast' is a man, as all men are beasts. You should know that these things happen, with all the shootings in the US. Man is a killer and we will always have these abherations. Regretable as they are.

I haven't noticed any comments about the suicide bombers who blow up men, women and children deliberately. Perhaps those events are not so important as a US soldier going 'wrong'.

Wherever Britain or the US have been we have tried to introduce 'our' way of life into a different culture. It seldom works. Even in this country we have immigrant races segregated by their own choice. I believe it happens in the US in some cities.

It seems we only go in where it is of benefit to us. And usually get a bloody nose.

I am delighted that the people of Afghanistan are free. I question their ability to maintain that freedom.

Why do we have to interfere when other Arab nations opt out of actions in their own back yards. OIL?

And why, after all we have done, does China gets the rights to explore for oil in Afghanistan.

And that's my lot of rambling - on the subject.

But then - what do I know.
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by trevorw2539 on Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:00 pm

by oftenwrong Today at 5:35 pm



Christian interpretation of the Biblical passage has been heavily influenced by the quotation from Leviticus in Jesus of Nazareth's Sermon on the Mount. In the Expounding of the Law (part of the Sermon on the Mount), Jesus urges his followers to turn the other cheek when confronted by violence: You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:38–39)

This saying of Jesus is frequently interpreted as criticism of the Old Testament teaching

And the eye shall not pity. Life go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
Code of Hammurabi 1800's BC

Apart from the Commandments concerning God the others are all similar to those found in other earlier codes, Ur-Nammu, Hammurabi,Laws of Eshunna etc.
The differences are because the codes are 'civil' codes (Hammurabi) and the 10 commandments (Bible) are 'spiritual'. Technically both 'God' given as Hammurabi claims his god gave them to him.
The main difference is the Monotheism of Judaism
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by Scarecrow on Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:57 pm

The guy is yet another poster boy for the insurgents , what with the Koran burning and the urinating on the bodies episode, US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta on Wednesday called the Koran burning and killing of 16 Afghans “deeply troubling” incidents that had challenged the war effort in Afghanistan. With 24/7 news outlets , keeping stuff like the above quiet is next to zero , WW2 is full of nefarious periods that have still yet to come to light and Vietnam etc . I don't condone what the chap did , but can understand what may have motivated him . To answer the question , he will never be tried on Afghan soil.

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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:03 am

trevorw2539 wrote:
Sorry.

If you can't read my post carefully enough I can't really help.

I’ve read and understood your post.

trevorw2539 wrote:
Tell me the difference between this individual killing 16 people and a tank shell killing 16 women and children.

The tank shell can’t think; thus the tank shell can’t pre-meditate.

trevorw2539 wrote:
There is none.

See above.

trevorw2539 wrote:
In either case 16 innocents lose their lives.

True.

trevorw2539 wrote:
The only difference is semantics.

There are several differences. Another is that a tank shell cannot have “malice aforethought.”

trevorw2539 wrote:
One is murder, the other is war.

True.

trevorw2539 wrote:
The result the same.

In your scenario, true.

trevorw2539 wrote:
I didn't say anything about someone ordering the 'beast' 'to shell another.....................'

I did.

trevorw2539 wrote:
Our troops have behaved with bravery and often with heroism. I do not denigrate their part.

I agree, and I join you in honoring these heroes.

trevorw2539 wrote:
I was in the forces for a few years and wore the uniform with pride.

I thank you for your service to God, country, and mankind. I thank you for the lives of my family. I thank you for my life.

trevorw2539 wrote:
I do question why we are there.

I vehently questioned Vietnam. I honor the heroes.

There are two legitimate and viable reasons for our presence in Afghanistan. One is to kill al qaida and taliban. The other is to liberate Afghanistan fro Taliban bestial tyranny.

trevorw2539 wrote:
After all we have done, Afghan and Iraq want us out.

That’s the nature of the people. I believe that (1) Barack Obama is well aware of this, and (2) that’s why he hasn’t said anything about “teaching them democracy” or “nation building.” A wise friend once said that there two kinds of things, those you can do something about, and those you can do nothing about.

trevorw2539 wrote:
An Iraqi said not long ago that his country was in a worse state than when Hussein was in power!

How soon they forget.

trevorw2539 wrote:
What have we given Afghanistan?

Freedom from women having to wear upside down trash cans with mesh viewports over their heads.

trevorw2539 wrote:
Western Style Democracy. Whether it will work for Iraqi and Afghani culture time will tell. I only hope it does. But the state of the Middle East doesn't give me hope.

I hope it works, but I believe it will not work in my lifetime.

I haven't noticed any comments about the suicide bombers who blow up men, women and children deliberately. Perhaps those events are not so important as a US soldier going 'wrong'.
[/quote]

To illustrate the revulsion and repugnance that jumps into my mind upon thinking of this beast, I consider him as despicable and immoral as homicide bombers.

trevorw2539 wrote:
I am delighted that the people of Afghanistan are free. I question their ability to maintain that freedom.

I agree.

trevorw2539 wrote:
Why do we have to interfere when other Arab nations opt out of actions in their own back yards.

Because sometimes we o what’s right. Arab countries always do what’s convenient and what benefits the leaders.

trevorw2539 wrote:
But then - what do I know.

You know a whole lot. You honor me by discussing issues with me. Thank you.
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by trevorw2539 on Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:01 am

Quote RockonBrother

Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

by RockOnBrother Today at 4:03 am






trevorw2539 wrote:
Sorry.

If you can't read my post carefully enough I can't really help.

I’ve read and understood your post.


trevorw2539 wrote:
Tell me the difference between this individual killing 16 people and a tank shell killing 16 women and children.

The tank shell can’t think; thus the tank shell can’t pre-meditate.

Neither can the bullets that killed the innocents. In each case it was human action that facilitated the events.

Down the millenia wars have been fought over 'genuine' reasons, 'good' causes or for outright domination of land. Except in defense of their own country, soldiers have laid down their lives on the orders of their governments, right or wrong, in different parts of the world.
In the ancient Mesopotamia 'city states' would go to war over a few acres of land between them. Assyrian and Babylonian troops would massacre cities who stood against them. Come to that, so did the Jews.
Sumerian, Lagash, Akkadian, Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek and Roman, and lesser Empires have all justified war for various reasons. Mainly though it's been because they thought they were more powerful and could impose their will on others. (although Sumer, cradle of civilsation, was probably more peaceful as a 'city state' empire.)

I am not saying we are wrong to want freedom for all, as long as it's not what WE want for people.

Except in self defence or defence pacts, justification for war is not what we want or think. It's about what is right. And what is right depends on which side of the battle line you are.
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:49 am

Nothing can condone wanton killing, but sparse personal details which have already emerged about this soldier suggest that there may be ample scope for compassion.
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by Guest on Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:09 am


BBC NEWS US & CANADA
17 March 2012 Last updated at 01:09 ET

Afghanistan massacre suspect named as Sgt Robert Bales

The US soldier accused of killing 16 Afghan civilians in a massacre that has undermined relations with Kabul has been named as Staff Sgt Robert Bales.

Senior US officials told the BBC the name of the suspect as he was heading back to the US to face charges.

He has now arrived at a maximum security military prison in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, after being flown from Kuwait, the US Army said.

He will be held in solitary confinement pending charges, the Army added

Full story: http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/post?t=407&mode=reply

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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by astradt1 on Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:53 am

Were there other soldiers involved in this massacre?

Reports are now comming out that more than one US soldier was involved in the murder of 16 Afghan civilians.

http://publicintelligence.net/nearly-20-soldiers-may-have-been-involved-in-afghan-massacre/

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/15/10708117-afghan-massacre-accused-us-soldiers-lawyer-eyes-ptsd-defense

Could this be true?
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by trevorw2539 on Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:25 pm

astradt1 wrote:Were there other soldiers involved in this massacre?

Reports are now comming out that more than one US soldier was involved in the murder of 16 Afghan civilians.

http://publicintelligence.net/nearly-20-soldiers-may-have-been-involved-in-afghan-massacre/

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/15/10708117-afghan-massacre-accused-us-soldiers-lawyer-eyes-ptsd-defense

Could this be true?

If the Afghani's hand over the bullet casings the answer could be found in forensic science.
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by Guest on Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:46 pm


Trevor,

The Federal Bureau of Investigation is pretty good at forensics. UCMJ requires either life imprisonment or execution for pre meditated murder. If there are more beasts, they should be executed with Bales.
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by bobby on Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:32 pm

rockonbrother spouted: The Federal Bureau of Investigation is pretty good at forensics. UCMJ requires either life imprisonment or execution for pre meditated murder. If there are more beasts, they should be executed with Bales

What just like the beasts at My Lai Roc, you know those that left the army and absolutely no action was taken but for the farce of Leutenant William Calley

Roc why is your attitude so different between the two cases.
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by astradt1 on Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:36 pm

If the Afghani's hand over the bullet casings the answer could be found in forensic science.

But who should they hand them over too....FBI?

Do you think they wouldn't get lost in transit?
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by trevorw2539 on Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:18 pm

Astrad1

But who should they hand them over too....FBI?

Do you think they wouldn't get lost in transit?

Assuming they handed them over to the US authorities that is.
It should be easy to find out through an outside authority not involved with either side.
In any case the damage is done. An answer should be found as soon as possible. As time goes by the event will grow. Already from 1 man to 20 men. Then helicopters. What will be next. Tanks?

From factual, as opposed to CSI, programmes on TV it seems a fairly simple operation in the right labs. if the weapon is available, to see whether they all came from the same weapon.
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:50 pm

Excuse my cynicism, but the time has already passed when the Public might have learned the truth of this regrettable incident. The Military's Public Relations machine has already begun issuing a smokescreen of healing "explanation", and The White House in an election year is battening down the hatches to avoid too close an association with the matter.

For a guide to likely media reporting, go back to accounts of US soldiers in Iraq running amok in the town of HADITHA. Read again about an Israeli soldier Baruch Goldstein who executed 25 Palestinians in Hebron. Ponder why a "deranged" American killed so many Afghans but exacted no similar tribute from among his comrades. So he wasn't THAT crazy.

Only a few weeks prior to the incident, the Commander of the US Army in Afghanistan had cautioned against revenge on Afghans for casualties suffered in the American forces there. What made him say that?
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by bobby on Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:04 am

When Kennedy was topped supposedly by a lone shooter, Lee Harvey Oswald. Then as if by magic another lone gunman Ruby topped him. Perhaps we could end up with a similar scenario, who knows, after all we are talking about the US of A where any prick can get a gun. God help us maybe even Rockonbrother could get one and make his beliefs a reality.
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by bobby on Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:05 am

I'll tell you what, those Afghans had better not blame Prince Harry:: Very Happy
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by bambu on Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:45 am

RockOnBrother wrote:
BBC NEWS ASIA
12 March 2012 Last updated at 13:01 ET

How it happened: Massacre in Kandahar

In the pre-dawn hours of Sunday, a US soldier stationed at a base in Afghanistan's Kandahar province allegedly launched a single-handed gun attack on nearby Afghan villagers

The soldier… is said to have broken into three homes in three different locations in Panjwai district - the villages of Alkozai and Najeeban and another settlement known locally as "Ibrahim Khan Houses".

… by the end of the attack, 16 people, nine of them children, were dead and five wounded. Some of the bodies had been set on fire.

Full BBC print story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17334643
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Should the perpetrator be tried in Afghanistan?

Yes. Upon apprehension and positive identification, he should be handed over to Afghan authorities as soon as possible. As a U.S. serviceman who has spit and defecated upon his uniform and his country, he deserves no consideration whatsoever from U.S. authorities. Insofar as I’m concerned, he abdicated U.S. citizenship when he murdered the first innocent soul.


Should the perpetrator be executed?

Yes. If Afghan authorities do not do so, then he should be tried under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Upon conviction, he should be speedily executed by whatever means are available under UCMJ.

As soon as I find his name, I’ll post it on this thread. There is no excuse, there is no “reason why”, there is no acceptable explanation. This is despicable, immoral bestiality, pure and simple, and this beast deserves to be removed from existence as soon as is possible given whatever constraints of due process are necessary.


Note: BBC News is the United Kingdom’s gift to people worldwide who want real news.


I've arrived at this thread a lot late.
However;

Should the perpetrator be tried in Afghanistan?

No.


Should the perpetrator be executed?

No.

-------------------------------------------


4th tour of duty, including 3 in Iraq where he sustained a serious head injury.
He should never have been sent to Afghanistan.

The day before he snapped he allegedly saw his buddy's leg blown off.
Blown off by who, exactly?
Locals?

Alcohol allegedly involved, as well as possibly drugs prescribed by the military.
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by Guest on Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:39 am

bambu wrote:
I've arrived at this thread a lot late.

Not a problem as far as I’m concerned.

bambu wrote:
However;

Should the perpetrator be tried in Afghanistan?

No.


Should the perpetrator be executed?

No.

I disagree twice.

First, if an Aussie soldier was to thrice leave his base in the United States, say right outside of Waco, Texas, each time armed with, say, an M-16, fully loaded, with spare clips, and was to enter numerous homes in Waco and exterminate sixteen Texans, mostly women and children, and then return to his base, safe and secure from Texans’ wrath, I would think that Aussie military authorities would offer Waco and Texas authorities the opportunity to allow either the Waco Police Department or the hallowed Texas Rangers of the Texas Department of Public Safety to arrest the exterminator and place in within the folds of the Texas justice system.

I’m unsure of your state of residence, so I’ll assume South Australia (for reasons I’ll share in a moment). Switch around “Australia” and United States”, “Australian” and “American”, and replace “Texas” with “South Australia” and “Waco” with “Adelaide”, and “Waco Police Department/Texas Rangers” with the appropriate SA authorities, and it comes out the same (“same-same”) to me.

Thus, if an American soldier was to thrice leave his base in Australia, say right outside of Adelaide, South Australia, each time armed with, say, an M-16, fully loaded, with spare clips, and was to enter numerous homes in Adelaide and exterminate sixteen South Australians, mostly women and children, and then return to his base, safe and secure from South Australians’ wrath, I would think that US military authorities would offer Adelaide and South Australia authorities the opportunity to allow either the Adelaide Police department/agency or the South Australia state police agency (or perhaps AFP) to arrest the exterminator and place in within the folds of the South Australia justice system.

I feel this way for the same reason in both instances. If an exterminator hiding within the uniform of an honorable organization such as the US Army (or Australian Forces) commits his evil deeds within a certain jurisdiction, the authorities of that jurisdiction should get first crack at the perpetrator. Now understand that I trust Aussie authorities and would decline such an offer in favor of the perpetrator facing Aussie justice, but the principle f “
first option” remains.

Insofar as the death penalty in relationship to this case is concerned, it is evil deeds such as this that fuel my support for the death penalty. I’ll comment a little more on your observations below in a moment; however, my core belief is that Genesis 9:6 applies to all mankind, as Noah, his three sons, and their four wives represent all mankind, whether one views the story literally or allegorically. I do believe that “sheds man blood” refers to murder, and murder requires malice aforethought and, for the most part, some degree of premeditation. The US Army staff sergeant exhibited both preconditions, and did so sixteen times. That’s sixteen innocent souls crated in the image of God (the remainder of Genesis 9:6) ext3erminated like vermin. To me, this case screams for the death penalty.

Regarding South Australia, Adelaide ranks a close #2 on my personal list of places I’ve not visited that I want to see before I expire. And since Auckland is #1, and Qantas or one of its subsidiaries serves both cities, I might be able to do it on one extended trip. Now if just one of my lottery tickets “h8its”…

If you happen to reside in or near Adelaide, or know anything about what appears to be one of the most beautiful cities on Earth, I’d appreciate your sharing with m anything a “rookie” might find interesting.

bambu wrote:
4th tour of duty, including 3 in Iraq where he sustained a serious head injury.
He should never have been sent to Afghanistan.

I agree.

bambu wrote:
The day before he snapped he allegedly saw his buddy's leg blown off.
Blown off by who, exactly?
Locals?

I doubt that they were the women and children he targeted.

bambu wrote:
Alcohol allegedly involved, as well as possibly drugs prescribed by the military.

Perhaps. That could be reason for suicide or something that happened in the field while he was either under fire or under immanent threat of being under fire. I cannot fathom a reason for premeditated extermination.
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by Guest on Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:36 am


25 March 2012 Last updated at 08:41 ET Share this pageFacebook Twitter Email Print Share this page
Afghan massacre: Kandahar families given compensation

Afghan families who lost relatives in the Kandahar massacre have been paid compensation by the US military.

They received $46,000 (£29,000) for each person killed and $10,000 (£6,300) for each person injured, Afghan officials and tribal elders said.

The families were also told that some witnesses would be flown to the US to give evidence - and others would be able to participate by videolink - when Staff Sgt Bales stands trial over the deadly night-time rampage in Panjwai district on 11 March.

The US army said on Friday that [Staff Sergeant Robert] Bales had been formally charged with 17 counts of premeditated murder - nine Afghan children and eight adults.

Sgt Bales, 38, was also charged with six counts of attempted murder...

His trial could take years, contrasting with Afghan demands for swift and decisive justice, and he could face the death penalty if convicted.

Full story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17503733
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by bambu on Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:20 am

RockOnBrother wrote:

Perhaps. That could be reason for suicide or something that happened in the field while he was either under fire or under immanent threat of being under fire. I cannot fathom a reason for premeditated extermination.


Gee I can.
Drunk, maybe drugged, mentally affected by head injury in Iraq, feeling betrayed by Afghans who blew off his buddy's leg, and blaming the locals...hurting them most by killing those they loved, as he loved his buddy.
War zone.

Obama apologises to the Muslim world at every opportunity [some people believe he is a 'Muslim'], so this guy will likely be off to the death chamber for extermination [how is that any different from what he's alleged to have done, premeditated cold blooded murder.]
Actually worse than he's alleged to have done, as the govt is not mentally ill and tormented in the head from a brain injury in a war zone.

His first mistake was ever joining the military as a sniper or anything else.
Now look what's happened to him...and his wife and kids.
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:38 am

At the post-WW2 Nuremberg Trials of Nazi leaders, it was established that soldiers were expected to follow the dictates of their conscience - thus rendering a Defence of "Just obeying Orders" inadmissable.

Does that also rule out, "God made me do it"?
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by Guest on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:02 pm

bambu wrote:
RockOnBrother wrote:
I cannot fathom a reason for premeditated extermination.
Gee I can.
Drunk…

I’ve been drunk; I’ve never committed premeditated extermination of sixteen innocent souls.

bambu wrote:
… maybe drugged…

I’ve known personally any number of people who have been drugged, intentionally drugged, including folks who have taken acid trips, and folks who’ve crashed out on hash, THC, peyote, and psilocybin, folks who’ve snorted enough powder cocaine to motivate them to sell everything but the clothes on their backs and the few personal possessions stuffed into a pillowcase, crack addicts that have concocted some of the wildest tales imaginable to get me and mine to “loan” them $20.00, $30,00, or $40,00. Not a single one of these drugged-out people have committed premeditated extermination of sixteen innocent souls.

bambu wrote:
… mentally affected by head injury in Iraq, feeling betrayed by Afghans who blew off his buddy's leg, and blaming the locals...hurting them most by killing those they loved, as he loved his buddy.
War zone.

I’ve known mentally unstable people, survivors of multiple deployments to Iraq and/or Afghanistan, and survivors of deployments to Vietnam, none of whom have committed premeditated extermination of sixteen innocent souls.

bambu wrote:
… this guy will likely be off to the death chamber…

I hope so. Unfortunately, he cannot be executed sixteen times.
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:45 pm

mens rea [ˈmɛnz ˈreɪə]
n
(Law) a criminal intention or knowledge that an act is wrong. It is assumed to be an ingredient of all criminal offences.
[Latin, literally: guilty mind]
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003
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Re: Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed?

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