Welcome to Cutting Edge. Guests can see and read the contents of most of the boards on this forum but need to become members to read all of them. Currently membership is instant, but new accounts may be deleted if not activated within fourteen days.

If you decide to join the forum, please open your welcome message for further details. New members are requested to introduce themselves on the appropriate thread on our welcome board.

Members may post messages and start threads, but it is essential that they read our posting rules and advice before doing so. If you have any immediate questions or queries, please post them on the suggestions board.

After posting at least ten messages, members are able to contact each other and the staff through our personal messaging system.

This forum is administrated by Ivan and moonbeam and moderated by boatlady and astradt1.

Thank you for visiting Cutting Edge.

Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Page 5 of 14 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 9 ... 14  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by Papaumau on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:55 pm

First topic message reminder :


I have found that the stance against homosexuality - and in many other "biblical sins" - in almost all of the religions of the world is based on writings in their holy books.

As the word that is accepted as the word of their Gods is either said to be spoken directly to the humans that report it, ( and in many of these cases these "conduits" from the Gods are found to simply be schizophrenic ), then the word that is written by the fallible human scribes of old into these holy books is at risk of being seen as the flawed interpretation of what these scribes and prophets said they know and found to be true.

The faithful - as in all of the details surrounding faith - believe in their faith because faith requires no proof and when they act on what they find in their holy books, ( although none of the contents of these books has ever been proven to be right or accurate in fact ), their behaviour, as a result, is based on myth rather than even on secular laws. In other words, because their faith dictates that everything that is in these holy books must be true, what they find there that connects to "sin" must also be true.

I have always felt that as far as the laws of the land that I live in should never be based on religious faith, I can only take the stance that if these laws ARE in any way influenced by religion then they are not laws that can apply to everybody or that can be applied to any kind of secular rules or regulations.

Regards.....

Papaumau.
avatar
Papaumau
Deactivated

Posts : 219
Join date : 2012-01-24
Location : Scotland

Back to top Go down


Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by tlttf on Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:06 am

Sorry for butting in AT. At a guess I'd say that far more non gay people have been tortured, murdered and/or annihilated, where does that argument lead?

tlttf
Banned

Posts : 1029
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by AwfulTruth on Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:03 am

Land

You are absolutely right and I totally agree with you but this thread is not really about that - it's about homophobia.

But I do see the logic of your post.

However, let me state here that all violence is wrong and all victims must be flagged up as being made whipping boys, scapegoats and the end result of the policies of hate, dogma and cruelty.

Homophobia creates a situation where someone is made 'other'; their name and identity torn away and their rights trodden on.

When a person becomes 'other', he or she is seen as fair game for physical and verbal abuse. 'Other' dehumanizes people and turns human beings, as the Jews experienced during WW2, into the fodder of hate and sometimes the vilified victims of the most appalling hate crimes.

That all hate crime is wrong, is a judgement I know you will agree with. Smile






AwfulTruth
Deactivated

Posts : 318
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Cambridgeshire

http://www.rhodesgreece.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by astra on Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:42 am

[quote]Why did you respond to Polyglide's post
I honestly do not know why I responded to the trash on that post!

Thing is, PG is going on about holding the Christian banner high!!?

Yes I am for capital and corporal punishment - only, and ONLY if the prerpetrator's little anal sphyncter is nailed to the netty door! There HAS to be something done, and the present mish mash since 1964 IMO is not working.

My attitude toward 'gay' people and relationships? - I do not necessarily feel comfortable with the concept, and will only discuss this fleetingly, but people who leave me to my life do not gather my ire. It is when self righteous folk force their ideology at me that I raise my hackles. this can be the anti car mob, anti smoking mob or thon Tatchell guy who really annoys me. To my mind, Tatchell is doing for gay representation, what Scargill did for the Coal Miners of the UK.
avatar
astra
Deceased

Posts : 1864
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : North East England.

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by polyglide on Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:01 am

How some people can make a simple statement become homophobic I do not know.

We as compassionate creatures should have everyones interests at heart and not just those whose actions and beliefs suit our own particular ideas of right and wrong.

If the scientists are correct and there are certain actions that are predetermined through our DNA then consideration should be given to those affected and not just those who fit into what some feel is right or wrong.

Take a person who cannot help abusing a child, what do you suggest?, he/she being unable to do anything about it and beyond any known cure at the present time, should he/she be locked away from society [not forgetting they have no choice in the matter of being abusers it is in their DNA] or should they be allowed to just abuse the odd child etc;?.

The same applies to a rapist or any other person whose actions are determined by their DNA.

Those who are lucky enough to have no such hangups should not be so quick to judge, the implications are not as simple as hang them, string them up etc; if you give consideration to one then you give consideration to all.


avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by AwfulTruth on Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:57 am

[quote="astra"]
Why did you respond to Polyglide's post
I honestly do not know why I responded to the trash on that post!

Thing is, PG is going on about holding the Christian banner high!!?

Yes I am for capital and corporal punishment - only, and ONLY if the prerpetrator's little anal sphyncter is nailed to the netty door! There HAS to be something done, and the present mish mash since 1964 IMO is not working.

My attitude toward 'gay' people and relationships? - I do not necessarily feel comfortable with the concept, and will only discuss this fleetingly, but people who leave me to my life do not gather my ire. It is when self righteous folk force their ideology at me that I raise my hackles. this can be the anti car mob, anti smoking mob or thon Tatchell guy who really annoys me. To my mind, Tatchell is doing for gay representation, what Scargill did for the Coal Miners of the UK.

Fair enough, I totally respect your view. You have clarified your stance and I am not being sarcastic or ironic at all here. Smile

AwfulTruth
Deactivated

Posts : 318
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Cambridgeshire

http://www.rhodesgreece.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by AwfulTruth on Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:00 pm

polyglide wrote:How some people can make a simple statement become homophobic I do not know.

We as compassionate creatures should have everyones interests at heart and not just those whose actions and beliefs suit our own particular ideas of right and wrong.

If the scientists are correct and there are certain actions that are predetermined through our DNA then consideration should be given to those affected and not just those who fit into what some feel is right or wrong.

Take a person who cannot help abusing a child, what do you suggest?, he/she being unable to do anything about it and beyond any known cure at the present time, should he/she be locked away from society [not forgetting they have no choice in the matter of being abusers it is in their DNA] or should they be allowed to just abuse the odd child etc;?.

The same applies to a rapist or any other person whose actions are determined by their DNA.

Those who are lucky enough to have no such hangups should not be so quick to judge, the implications are not as simple as hang them, string them up etc; if you give consideration to one then you give consideration to all.



Plolyglide

Might I then suggest you start a new thread about the very issue you are presumably engaging with?

Having said that I am still none the wiser why you posted it in this thread?scratch

But, I stand by what I posted, sorry! study

AwfulTruth
Deactivated

Posts : 318
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Cambridgeshire

http://www.rhodesgreece.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:01 pm

An article in today's Independent reports on the beginnings of Divorce among gay couples who have decided to split.

Divorce Law is largely unprepared, having been designed principally to safeguard the interest of children.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11752
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by AwfulTruth on Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:46 pm

oftenwrong wrote:An article in today's Independent reports on the beginnings of Divorce among gay couples who have decided to split.

Divorce Law is largely unprepared, having been designed principally to safeguard the interest of children.

Interesting news Very Happy : BUT contrary to what you may have been told, I can assure you that the original divorce laws were put in place to protect property and wealth; which normally meant women came off far worst AND with the stigma of being labelled a marked woman. Indeed, until fairly recently, historically, women in divorce cases had to attend the Old Bailey in London, in a court session of great solemnity, and the divorce papers were printed on black paper with white lettering, to signify the dreadful nature of this abomination of God's will. In those days divorce was something quite shocking. My own grandmother was married and divorced twice - the third went away and died somewhere unknown.

Having said that, divorce right now does not protect the children's interest when it negates access by the father. I think there has to be shared access to the kids - full stop! AND, grandparents should be given full rights to visit or entertain their grandchildren at least once a month - if they so desire. geek

As for gay men and women? They are just as likely to fall out big time as any other person, and may even have children - it's possible.

Adoption is neither here nor there as to who is designated as parents, in law anyway.

AwfulTruth
Deactivated

Posts : 318
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Cambridgeshire

http://www.rhodesgreece.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by trevorw2539 on Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:20 pm

AwfulTruth. quote

Interesting news Very Happy : BUT contrary to what you may have been told, I can assure you that the original divorce laws were put in place to protect property and wealth; which normally meant women came off far worst AND with the stigma of being labelled a marked woman.

Just quickly poking my nose in. I thought women were property.confused Wink

oops back to study.
avatar
trevorw2539

Posts : 1349
Join date : 2011-11-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by Shirina on Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:41 pm

Divorce Law is largely unprepared, having been designed principally to safeguard the interest of children.

Andrea Yates was the mother of five children. I say "was" because, back in 2001, she put her five children in a car, drove the car into a lake, and let those five children drown. She, herself, swam to safety.

Today, she has two more children to a second husband.

In this country, there are 30 states with anti-gay amendments in their constitutions, forbidding both gay marriage AND civil unions. One of the primary, cornerstone arguments used by anti-gay activists is that we must protect the children.

Really? Then why is a known and convicted child-murderer allowed to have more children? I find this preposterous that gays are such a threat to kids that we need not just laws, but constitutional amendments, to keep their hands of kids, but child-murderers, well, that's fine and jim-dandy as long as she is in a heterosexual relationship.

This just goes to show you the lunacy that is the anti-gay campaign. Hypocrisy and fallacy greets you at every turn of a phrase.
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by Shirina on Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:50 pm

Those who are lucky enough to have no such hangups should not be so quick to judge, the implications are not as simple as hang them, string them up etc; if you give consideration to one then you give consideration to all.

When one does harm to another, it matters not the reason. An animal may react on instinct - it cannot help itself - but if an animal is running around killing children and pets, we shoot it. With humans who may be suffering some sort of mental breakdown and commits violence against another, we haul that person off to jail or a high-security mental institution. Yes, we lock them away. The basic precept concerning "rights" is that a right is only valid until it begins to interfere with someone else's rights. One right cannot trample another.

If you suffer violence at the hands of another, your rights have been violated - and the person violating those rights loses his right to freedom. It matters not if he wasn't in control; the safety and protection of society as a whole is paramount.

On the issue of gays, well, being gay does not harm anyone. Being gay does not violate or trample on anyone else's rights. There is no logical argument anyone can make that justifies the vehement desire to keep gays in the closet. None. You can go ahead and run by me any argument - ANY argument - you wish to. I guarantee that I can refute it legally or logically (and many times, both).
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by AwfulTruth on Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:32 pm

I agree with Shirina

Child abuse is a totally separate issue from gay issues. To link the two together is wholly fallacious misinformation. It would be equally excremental to link being female with being an axe murderer (remember Lizzie Borden?:affraid:). Such ludicrous generalizations and illogical aspersions are about as edifying as Nazi anti-Jewish propaganda. I am serious.

Even though the vast majority of reported child abuse cases are carried out by males, usually members or friends of the family, their victims are usually young females. Bearing in mind that historically what we agree is child abuse now, was once morally acceptable (i.e. girls as young as nine getting hitched to older men was not uncommon in the upper crust echelons of latter-day society); which is pretty repulsive and shocking, I know.

Having said that, concurrently, only a tiny percentage of straight or gay males are paedophiles and only a small percentage of abuse cases involve females. Female abusers are more likely to be abusive verbally or physically by negating proper child care for their offspring.

The very fact that a high percentage of child abusers are fathers abusing their children, is a very sad indictment, but once again, they represent a tiny percentage of fathers, so society must never assume guilt or even potential guilt - that would be an incredibly dangerous mindset liable to cause untold suffering and pain to innocent people if unleashed.

We all know how witch hunts start - remember the Witch-finder General mentality? William Hopkins, the evil accuser!

We all learn from the terrible deeds of others.

AwfulTruth
Deactivated

Posts : 318
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Cambridgeshire

http://www.rhodesgreece.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:39 pm

"We all know how witch hunts start"

Certainly anyone who has read all six pages of this thread does.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11752
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:21 pm

Quote AT : For your information I only wear underpants made from the Bayeux Tapestry"

(talktalk.co.uk)

" And as if all this isn't bad enough, one day we'll be featured on a pair of Y-Fronts..."
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by AwfulTruth on Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:32 pm

Phil, as a vicar (is that you in that pic with the dog collar?) you should know better than to discuss my underwear in public.

Actually I wear boxers and in the winter...oh sorry giving too much detail...

Anyway, Harold got it in the eye and besides, William had been blessed by the Pope, which is why he wore knickers made out of the animal vellum on which the Pope's sanction to invade England was scripted. clown Or maybe not -whatever!




AwfulTruth
Deactivated

Posts : 318
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Cambridgeshire

http://www.rhodesgreece.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by witchfinder on Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:48 pm

Is it wrong to be part of a minority ? - I think not.

If a man or woman happens to be homosexual, it does not automaticly mean that they are either wrong, perverted or evil in some way, and why should what two consenting adults choose to do in private be any business of any church or busy-body. ?

Who decides that homosexuality is wrong - the Anglican Church perhaps, of which over 80% of the population has no affinity with, or is it the Catholic Church which decides that gay people are all sinners, a Church which less than 10% of the population adhere to.

What if you are gay and athiest ? - what if you are gay and dont realy care what the Churches believe or say or think, who are they to dictate to people how to live their lives or deny what nature intended them to be.

The opinions of the Churches are realy quite irrelevant, all that the Churches are doing is making society divided because not only are they alienating gay people, they are also making enemies of the many hetrosexual people who also believe they are wrong.

The subject of paedophiles is a totaly different subject and has absolutely nothing what so ever to do with the issue or topic of LGBT rights or gay people or equality, infact the vast majority of gay people would be highly offended if anyone confused one with the other.

Churches are out of date - out of touch - out of ideas and rapidly losing support.

avatar
witchfinder
Forum Founder

Posts : 703
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : North York Moors

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:50 pm

AT - I would never have mentioned your underwear had you not already brazenly shouted ' Geronimo' whilst dropping your trousers and showing us all a flash of the Norman Conquest.

It's not actually me displayed, but please don't let anyone else know. It looks so much like me (though obviously not quite so handsome) that I simply had to use it as my pic.

My other dark secret is that I am not really a vicar - although I realise that the kindly nature of my postings and my unfailingly forgiving nature make it hard for people to believe... Embarassed
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by AwfulTruth on Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:17 pm

Witchfinder - excellent post which contains truth; truth being the enemy of lies (I am probably sounding a bit pompous, I know).

You are also lighting a candle to illuminate the darkness. Idea (or turning on a light!)

Phil

Such fun! Now that's what I call good humour. Actually I have seven pairs of tapestry undies; today I am mostly wearing the bit showing William mounted. Laughing

AwfulTruth
Deactivated

Posts : 318
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Cambridgeshire

http://www.rhodesgreece.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:57 pm


De gustibus non est disputandum.

(Meaning literally regarding taste, there is no dispute.)
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11752
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by polyglide on Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:26 am

It is a strange fact that people can take the mickey and mock religion but cannot accept that some people have strong ideas of other activities.

Homophobia being such a case.

If a person feels homosexuality to be wrong, then he/she has every right to express their opinion, just as a homosexual has the right to condemn religion etc;

You cannot force a person to change their views by changing the law but by reasoned debate based on fact.


avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by AwfulTruth on Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:04 pm

polyglide wrote:It is a strange fact that people can take the mickey and mock religion but cannot accept that some people have strong ideas of other activities.

Homophobia being such a case.

If a person feels homosexuality to be wrong, then he/she has every right to express their opinion, just as a homosexual has the right to condemn religion etc;

You cannot force a person to change their views by changing the law but by reasoned debate based on fact.



But my dear Polyglide, I agree with you. cheers

However, I am sure you will agree that hate crime is a quite different matter altogether. :farao:

So what exactly are you really saying?



AwfulTruth
Deactivated

Posts : 318
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Cambridgeshire

http://www.rhodesgreece.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by Shirina on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:20 pm

It is a strange fact that people can take the mickey and mock religion but cannot accept that some people have strong ideas of other activities.

I'll be very blunt here.

It's all well and good to express an opinion. It's another ball of wax when you live in my country, where 30 states have passed constitutional amendments banning same sex marriages. Our various constitutions are designed to GRANT rights, not restrict them. Not since slavery has our state or federal constitutions been used as weapons to persecute a minority group. Perhaps even more to the point, these opinions have been made into LAWS, and those laws are based on RELIGION.

In other words, we are now bound by law to follow the dictates of a specific religious belief whether we're gay or not - this despite the fact that the 1st Amendment prohibits such laws.

As an American, seeing how religion is running roughshod over our freedoms - some of which are supposed to be guaranteed - means that this issue has gone far above simply stating an opinion. Now that the camel's nose is in the tent, the rest of the camel is already on its way in. Banning gay marriage wasn't enough in some states. Now they're trying to allow bullying as long as its done for religious reasons. Some states are trying to make it illegal for private (that's right, private) businesses to provide health benefits to same-sex couples. Many want to prohibit gays from adopting children. And some states even want to make homosexual acts outright illegal (i.e. you can be arrested for it).

All because of your opinion, polyglide. Thus my vehement opposition of it.

In conclusion: If you can show me where 30 states have passed constitutional amendments banning religion, then you'll have a worthwhile comparison.
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by AwfulTruth on Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:07 pm

Shirina, this is pretty shocking stuff! Thanks so much for your illuminating post.

What you are of course alluding to is religious fascism.

Whether it be done in the name of Christ or any other religious name, it all amounts to cold blooded, vicious-minded hate-filled religious fascism.

Religious fascism is an evil, it destroys people and it tramples on human rights, wholesale.

Nothing good will ever come of it and it's logical end result is death in any way possible... Suspect


AwfulTruth
Deactivated

Posts : 318
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Cambridgeshire

http://www.rhodesgreece.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:21 pm

"Power Games" are here to stay.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11752
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by polyglide on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:08 pm

There is always the debate regarding what is normal and what is not and to what extent any practice may have on the human race as a whole should it not be normal.

To clarify what is and what is not normal.

You use a hammer to knock in nails, you use a paint brush to paint, that is normal.

You would not use a paint brush to knock in nails nor a hammer to paint.
because that would be abnormal.

There must be fears in America that homosexuality could cause the basic fabric of society to break down should it be allowed to become widespread
and fear can cause many problems, as I have said previously, if I were homosexual I would keep a low profile and just get on with my life


avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by AwfulTruth on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:21 pm

Polyglide

You are a joker! clown

Did you not know that the majority of child abuse occurs within families and that the usual victims are female?

Your post is bull dust! Razz Based on ignorance. :farao:

I will not speak to you again...
pig

AwfulTruth
Deactivated

Posts : 318
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Cambridgeshire

http://www.rhodesgreece.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by blueturando on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:29 pm

All because of your opinion, polyglide. Thus my vehement opposition of it.

While I do not really agree with Polyglides position, I agree that she has a right to express her opinion if she thinks Homosexuality is wrong. To try and label such views as 'Hate crimes' is just a lazy way of saying...'You are not entitiled to your view because it doesn't tally with ours'.

I am neither Gay or Religious, but it seems religions are now fair game for any critisism you want to throw at them. I do not believe that God exists, but that could and probably is as offensive to a Christian and Polyglide saying Homosexuality is not normal

blueturando
Banned

Posts : 1203
Join date : 2011-11-21
Age : 50
Location : Jersey CI

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by AwfulTruth on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:40 pm

blueturando wrote:
All because of your opinion, polyglide. Thus my vehement opposition of it.

While I do not really agree with Polyglides position, I agree that she has a right to express her opinion if she thinks Homosexuality is wrong. To try and label such views as 'Hate crimes' is just a lazy way of saying...'You are not entitiled to your view because it doesn't tally with ours'.

I am neither Gay or Religious, but it seems religions are now fair game for any critisism you want to throw at them. I do not believe that God exists, but that could and probably is as offensive to a Christian and Polyglide saying Homosexuality is not normal

Blue

If you say you are not gay then fine - but that is really not the question and your own private life is not up for discussion - or anyone else's. In a civilised society what we do in the bedroom, so to speak, is strictly private.

Besides it is eminently true, in the real universe, that human beings are far too complex to be merely labelled anything like gay, straight or bisexual. Nothing is ever that definitive or final; the box we are forced into is an artificial construct designed to contain, restrict and dehumanize - as well as subsume our identity. No, we are all much more than just our sexual proclivity. We are all sentient human beings with feelings.

With regard to Polyglide, be sure to read all of the post he has posted here: the repetition, the insinuations and, frankly, bullying impulse displayed have nothing whatsoever to do with free speech. I defend free speech but I do not defend the inflammatory goading Polyglide is addicted to.

Let there be free speech and let people express their views, but let us all adhere to the etiquette of good discussion skills.

By the way you look great in the photo...take that as back-handed compliment! Very Happy


AwfulTruth
Deactivated

Posts : 318
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Cambridgeshire

http://www.rhodesgreece.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by Phil Hornby on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:45 pm

" I am neither Gay or Religious..."

Nor 'literate', it would appear.... Very Happy
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by AwfulTruth on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:56 pm

Hi Phil

I used to be staunch Tory. geek True.

Did you say that was you in the photo? If not, please post a real one.

I have of me. It makes it real I suppose. I'd like to think I look like Alexander the Great as depicted on an ancient gold coin, but sadly the wheels have fallen off, the flying buttresses have collapsed and the firm arse has gone south. I jest of course! jocolor

AwfulTruth
Deactivated

Posts : 318
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : Cambridgeshire

http://www.rhodesgreece.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by blueturando on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:59 pm

Blue

If you say you are not gay then fine - but that is really not the question and your own private life is not up for discussion - or anyone else's. In a civilised society what we do in the bedroom, so to speak, is strictly private.


No it's not the question, but what I was trying to say is that I have no bias either way. I am if anything Anti religion and I hate everything religion stands for....I hate the lies, the dogma and the bigotry, but I will defend anyone's right to express their opinion.....even when that opinion is wrong

With regard to Polyglide, be sure to read all of the post he has posted here: the repetition, the insinuations and, frankly, bullying impulse displayed have nothing whatsoever to do with free speech. I defend free speech but I do not defend the inflammatory goading Polyglide is addicted to.

The only way to respond to people with Polyglides views are to educate them. On the whole society has done a fair job on this with racism and the same should be done with homosexuality. To just shout people down for their views only reinforces their bigoted attitudes

blueturando
Banned

Posts : 1203
Join date : 2011-11-21
Age : 50
Location : Jersey CI

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by blueturando on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:01 pm

" I am neither Gay or Religious..."

Nor 'literate', it would appear

Yawn Phil, but I guess you're not here for your comedy value

blueturando
Banned

Posts : 1203
Join date : 2011-11-21
Age : 50
Location : Jersey CI

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by blueturando on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:08 pm

There must be fears in America that homosexuality could cause the basic fabric of society to break down should it be allowed to become widespread

Polyglide....What is the fabric of society in America? And does that 'Fabric of society include: Race hate, Guns, Religious bigotry, a massive wealth divide, illegal wars and torture, inacarceration without trial ect?


Last edited by blueturando on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

blueturando
Banned

Posts : 1203
Join date : 2011-11-21
Age : 50
Location : Jersey CI

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by witchfinder on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:15 pm

Blimey!! blue is begining to sound like a true champion of the Libetarian cause
avatar
witchfinder
Forum Founder

Posts : 703
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : North York Moors

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by blueturando on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:24 pm

Im trying Witchfinder....to be a better person Very Happy


blueturando
Banned

Posts : 1203
Join date : 2011-11-21
Age : 50
Location : Jersey CI

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:49 pm

Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Soon to be a major Hollywood blockbuster!!


All life is there.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11752
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by Shirina on Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:52 pm

There must be fears in America that homosexuality could cause the basic fabric of society to break down should it be allowed to become widespread
and fear can cause many problems, as I have said previously, if I were homosexual I would keep a low profile and just get on with my life

Hello, polyglide:

Yes, you are correct in saying that those fears exist. However, like it so often is, this fear is an irrational one. It is akin to someone running away from a kitten in abject terror because he/she fears being scratched. There is no basis for such a fear. Homosexuality has been with us since the beginning, and gays have been conducting their relationships and doing all of those "sinful" things all the while. It seems hardly logical to believe that the fabric of society will break down now if it hasn't already. And it hasn't.

In addition, homosexuality is not some disease that can become "widespread." There is no gay plague and you can't catch it from toilet seats, sneezes, or shaking hands. You are either gay ... or you're not. If it seems that people are "suddenly" becoming gay, the suddenness is an illusion. They were always gay, but they had to hide it because of bigots, hate groups, and "normal" people who choose to ridicule them. Coming out of the closet does not mean a heterosexual suddenly woke up and found him/herself inexplicably desiring the same sex. This sort of irrational fear is primitive, superstitious behavior, hardly befitting anyone who would wish to be enlightened. If one desires to exist in a benighted state, ignorant, afraid, and believing the unreal, then I would suggest believing in vampires or a zombie apocalypse would be a lot more fun. This ridiculous fear of gays isn't even enjoyable.

I have heard it argued that allowing gays to marry would somehow cheapen marriage - this usually said by men. My response has been, and still remains, thus: If you think it cheapens your marriage, then you should walk over to your wife and say, "Honey, I love you, but not as much as I did before gays could marry. You are worth a little less to me now. All of the things I married you for are no longer quite as bright and shiny as they once were, and you aren't even as beautiful in my eyes since gay marriage was legalized." Because that IS what you would be saying if you actually believed in this argument. Do you think your wife would understand and return the sentiment? More likely you would receive a slap in the face and a free trip to divorce court.

Speaking of how the above argument is usually said by men, the entire argument against gays is usually said by men. In fact, in almost every argument I have ever heard, lesbians aren't even mentioned. It is almost unilaterally men hating on gay men. Why is that, do you think? Are we filled to the brim with men insecure with their own masculinity? Is this another example of a patriarchal society enforcing the will of men onto other men? Perhaps what is even more sad - not to mention hypocritical - is how many of these men who scream about homosexuality will happily watch and view pornography showing two women having sex with each other. It is widely known that lesbian erotica is one of the fastest ways to arouse a man. Do you think men love threesomes because they're against homosexuality? How can anyone view this rabid hatred of gayness with a straight face knowing how many of these homophobic men would give their right arm for the opportunity to be in bed with two hot women doing things to himself AND each other?

In addition to all of that, how can gay marriage unravel the fabric of society when we have far more common marital issues like a 56% divorce rate, adultery, spousal abuse, child abandonment, misogyny, and even murdering your husband or wife to get out of a marriage or to collect life insurance? If THESE things have not unraveled the fabric of society, then how in the hell can gay marriage do what these things could not? Can anyone explain this incongruity? No? I didn't think so.

Here's what I see. This hatred of homosexuality has very little to do with religion. It might be for some, but not for most. Religion is merely being used as a weapon to justify an opinion they already had. So what is it about, then? Well, I think the straight community knows and understands that their way of life is in jeopardy. That much I can agree with. But as is so often the case when one makes a mess of their own life, they need a scapegoat. Instead of acknowledging that they are destroying themselves, they would rather blame the gays for their own pathetic, weak-willed mistakes. Yes, you beat your wife or cheat on your husband because the gay community has cheapened your own relationships to the point where you just can't help yourself ... isn't that the excuse?

All of this noise created against gays is just a smokescreen to hide your OWN indiscretions, your OWN contribution to the unraveling of the societal fabric. And when I say "you" or "your," I'm not referring to you, personally, polyglide. That is meant as a collective "you" representing the entire straight lifestyle.

The downside is how many innocent people get caught up in this religious fascism because now, in case you haven't heard, women are being targeted. Oh yes. Over 600 bills introduced to various state legislatures around the country trying to limit or restrict access to women's reproductive health services since 2010, and 90 of them have passed so far. I'm not talking about just abortion here, but reproductive health in general. When a committee was formed to decide the fate of contraception laws, the entire committee was male. That is akin to an all-white jury deciding the fate of a black man. You even have traitors to our own gender like Ann Coulter saying on national television how women should have their voting rights taken away - we should be in the home raising children, don't you know, not mucking about with politics (oh yeah, and it would make it almost impossible to ever elect another Democrat president - funny how this issue cropped up just as the numbers showed Obama ahead of Romney by 19 points among female voters!)

This country is a mess thanks in large part to this backward, quasi-fascist, ultra-religious mindset. We are one of the most high-tech nations on the planet with some of the best scientific minds, yet ideologically and philosophically, we are like 300 million cavemen in charge of the world's largest nuclear arsenal and a lot of gadgets we barely understand.
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by polyglide on Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:05 pm

It is a strange world when those who express their opinions feel no one else should do so unless they agree with theirs.

I am neither for or against homosexuals and Iam against all forms of abuse in whatever form it may take but the only way to make any matter better is to kick around every aspect that is involved and every opinion expressed even if some may offend others, appeasement never solved any problem.

I have several homosexual friends whom I hold in high regard, they keep a low profile and just get on with their lives, I do not understand their way of life and no doubt they do not understand mine, they cause no trouble that I am aware of and do their share of work in society but my beliefs still think
that there is still something not quite right but I also think the same about smoking and several other matters.




avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:29 pm

"I am neither for or against homosexuals"

Though some sixty postings from that source might seem to indicate a decided view.

Polonius:
This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
Farewell, my blessing season this in thee!


Laertes:
Most humbly do I take my leave, my lord.


Hamlet Act 1, scene 3, 78–82
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11752
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by Shirina on Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:50 pm

While I do not really agree with Polyglides position, I agree that she has a right to express her opinion if she thinks Homosexuality is wrong. To try and label such views as 'Hate crimes' is just a lazy way of saying...'You are not entitiled to your view because it doesn't tally with ours'.
I never once said Polyglide does not have the right to express his opinions. In fact, I have encouraged him to express them. That does not mean, however, that I forfeit my own right to do the same. In addition, nowhere did I say that his opinions were "hate crimes." I'm not even sure where that accusation comes from. Lightning from the blue?
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by Shirina on Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:55 pm

It is a strange world when those who express their opinions feel no one else should do so unless they agree with theirs.
Okay, I give up.

I won't express MY opinion on this subject ever again.

End of story.
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: Religion, gay artists and homophobia

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 5 of 14 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 9 ... 14  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum