The public sector pay freeze and the abolition of national pay rates

Hopefully this will include the wages of MP's after all a lot of them have homes outside of london and only have second homes with in the capital......This will save money to help pay off the National Debt....

I have just thought, will the state pension be the next thing to become regionalised??????

Will soldiers serving in Catterick Garrison be paid less than those in Aldershot?

Just think, we could see police officers from West Yorkshire being bussed in to help thier higher paid Southern counterparts during civil disturbances?

Most Tory proposals in the past eighteen months were evidently not "thought through" and resulted in U-turns. Why should anyone suppose that the same will not hold true of Gideon's budget?

Absolutely. This one's not anywhere near unfair enough yet to be the finished version...

It's not as though he has been short of advice from Coalition colleagues.

Guardian














Guardian.


The budget: a hat with no rabbits.


Quote - me. Someone else feeling the pinch?

Rumour has it that the yard to No. 11 Downing Street was broken into last night. Only empty hutches were left.

Rabbit pie anyone? Apologies to vegetarians.

AwfulTruth. Such high praise for a man. A knighthood for him next?



The pay freeze will cause further hardship and must be condemned.

The abolition of national pay rates. This will presumably put an end to national bargaining and leave local bargaining. I can understand that local bargaining will take local conditions into consideration - and allow higher rates for those in - say - London and areas of high costs. There seems to be 2 problems with this for the workers.

The bargaining power of national unions is greater than that of local groups. Another strike against unions?

Who will decide the areas in greatest need? Another 'independent' Quango of Old Boys.

I've no doubt there are other things you can think of.

May I quote you from the Bible. Talking about the rulers Jesus says

'All therefore they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works; for they say and do not.

For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on mens shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers'.

I know Jesus is talking in religious terms, but I feel this is applicable.

Oh dear. Old age and cynicism seem to go hand in hand.

If Osborne really wants equality of pay in the Public Service, he needs only prohibit the payment of London weighting in salaries.

Of course, there would be a massive exodus of workers from London, but that's not a Treasury problem, it's for MWP to deal with.

It's precisely the same argument as "forcing Bankers abroad" with high taxation, but for some strange reason the response is the exact opposite.

Fatcher tried to move much of the Ministry of Defence offices from London to Sunderland and offices were prepared at great expense. The workers refussed to come, and the "offices" are now student flats.

Seems they been digging through Maggies litter bins!

Thirteen years have been expunged from the Tory conciousness, as though they never happened.

oftenwrong wrote:Thirteen years have been expunged from the Tory conciousness, as though they never happened.

Very pertinent and incisive from all posters: it seems we really do have a second helping of mad, bad and dangerous Tory Thatcherite dogma, fascism and vile victimisation.

I am not going to keep saying this, but after very careful consideration and after pondering the hard, irrefutable evidence before us, it is my assertion that this Tory rump are the worst shower, calling themselves a government, that has ever darkened the Houses of Parliament. Never before has such a corrupt, vindictive, cynical, stupid and recklessly incompetent rabble been given the joysticks of power ever before. This government will be punished at the ballot box and the effect will be catastrophic...just be patient, I tell myself!!

AwfulTruth wrote:

oftenwrong wrote:Thirteen years have been expunged from the Tory conciousness, as though they never happened.

Very pertinent and incisive from all posters: it seems we really do have a second helping of mad, bad and dangerous Tory Thatcherite dogma, fascism and vile victimisation.

I am not going to keep saying this, but after very careful consideration and after pondering the hard, irrefutable evidence before us, it is my assertion that this Tory rump are the worst shower, calling themselves a government, that has ever darkened the Houses of Parliament. Never before has such a corrupt, vindictive, cynical, stupid and recklessly incompetent rabble been given the joysticks of power ever before. This government will be punished at the ballot box and the effect will be catastrophic...just be patient, I tell myself!!

Apart from all the above you really like this Government don't you.

Indubitably, my dear Trevor, indubitably!

We just don't see enough of the word 'indubitably' these days.

Let's have a few more 'forsooths', too.

I hope nobody is unduly discombobulated by that...

I'd just like to interject a bit of support for other neglected words from the Sherlock Holmes lexicon: incontrovertibly, hereinafter, notwithstanding, pejorative and antidisestablishmentarianism.

Back on-message, how do you spell the phrase "shameless pennypinching Tory scrooge"?

I wonder if Gideon has thought about regional variations in tax rates?

Areas of depravation must have higher call on government spending so why not make these areas pay a higher rate of incometax to the leafy lanes where there is less need for government intervention...

This would be easy to do as most of the workers in the deprived areas will be on PAYE so the tax man will know exactly what is due to be paid and in the leafy areas there will be less need to close those loopholes as due to there being a lower rate of taxation everyone will be only too willing to pay their full amount.......

a Win-Win situation alround for the government don't you think?

Council Tax varies regionally.

Council Tax varies regionally.

So why not extended it to income tax????

10% for leafy lane areas and 30% of the deprived areas sounds about right..

I would normally say more about the thread subject but for the fact that my old school inflicted so many lines of the " I must endeavour to curb the exuberance of my verbosity" variety on me...

At Wrote "Never before has such a corrupt, vindictive, cynical, stupid and recklessly incompetent rabble been given the joysticks of power ever before."

Exactly the same thing happened within 5yrs of Cromwell having the kings head removed. He returned to call the politicians "greedy scum" and disolved Parliment.

History is now repeating itself without Oliver to come to our rescue.

Warts and all

"Warts and all"

And plenty of balls OW.

As The MP's are after all public sector workers,
I wonder what they would think of regional pay deal, whereby an MP from a reasonably Rural area such as Witney, would earn considerably less than an MP Central London. If that was Vectored into their policy, you can bet your bottom dollar it would never have made it to the proposal stage.

Could this not be more of their divide and rule tactics, They have pitted the workers against the sick and unemployed, they are in the process of pitting us against Europe, Now they want to widen the North South divide. What would happen if prospective MP’s only wanted to work in London, who will there be to tell lies to the rest of the Country.

Did anyone else hear that Private sector pension funds could be in for a rapid rise due to the good performance of the stock market.......This is likely to lead to bigger rises in private pensions....

And all this just after the public sector workers have had changes made to their pensions due to poor performence of Private Pensions.......

Tories redressing the balance?

astradt1 wrote:Did anyone else hear that Private sector pension funds could be in for a rapid rise due to the good performance of the stock market.......This is likely to lead to bigger rises in private pensions....

And all this just after the public sector workers have had changes made to their pensions due to poor performence of Private Pensions.......

Tories redressing the balance?

But what goes around, comes around. Remember all that toxic bad-debt which infected the Banking system in 2008? They're re-packaging it to sell to ...... wait for it ....... THE PENSION FUNDS!

So sad to read such bitterness, so soothing to read that the coalition is still leading in the polls. Oh where oh where are MilliBalls when their country needs them!

Why oh why? .... and similar meaningless ejaculations....
The Coalition governs because the British electorate withdrew its interest in the last General Election. There is a lesson for us all, we won't do THAT again, will we?
Cameron/Clegg/Osborne are behaving like a conquering Invader, determined to impose alien beliefs on a supine proletariate.

They'll get their comeuppance in due course, and finding our way back will not be easy. But what makes government supporters so much more interested in the OPPOSITION all the time?

Simply feeding the plebs OW. I don't have the time to indulge as often as I used to. bye the bye, what opposition?

Why the one you and bluerinse keep on and on about, obviously.

There in lies the problem OW, I call up more opposition to the government than the gutless shyte thats meant to be official.

the coalition is still leading in the polls

"The coalition" doesn't figure in any polls. Labour is between 3% and 7% ahead of the Tories - with YouGov currently predicting an overall Labour majority of 60 - while the Lib Dems are fast disappearing down the pan on 7-8%. There's no point in adding the Tory and Lib Dem polling figures together, because that isn't what will happen in an election; the Tories fought and won FPTP in the referendum, remember?

Still it's interesting to read that some people will still applaud a government that's hell bent on destroying the NHS, privatising everything that moves, cutting taxes for the rich and freezing earnings for young people on the minimum wage. But we shouldn't be surprised, since 10% of Germans were still supporting Hitler in April 1945. Some people just never learn, not even the hard way.

What realy makes me laugh is the way in which the government insists public or state corporations must freeze their budgets, no rises in council tax, no rises in line with inflation to the tv licence; And at the same time private companies are raising prices way above inflation, the rail companies, the water supply industry etc etc.

It is plainly obvious what is going on - its an intentional assault on anything and everything that is public or state owned and run, the coalition is chipping away, bit by bit at the BBC, at council services until they are unsustainable and therefore ripe for sell-off or total privatisation.

Companies like Yorkshire Water can raise prices to customers by double the rate of inflation, whilst our local BBC radio station or the local hospital is starved of funds.

If your a friend of the Tories, a privately owned monopoly, you can do what the hell you like and raise prices as much as you want, if however you are a state owned public service, then you will be starved of funds, abolished or privatised.

If it was called a public/private enterprise as it was by *king Gordon, you lot would be wetting your pants with exitement. Face it I can't afford to keep paying for monolithic establishments that are uncontrollable, bring in more private enterprise, just be more open about it.

tlttf wrote:Simply feeding the plebs OW. I don't have the time to indulge as often as I used to. bye the bye, what opposition?

Please post some more - make the time available mate!

There is a backbone of arrogance in this de-fault ragbag government that is not only highly destructive and dangerous, it also takes one's breath away! The anger and bad vibes they are generating is the same stuff they caused when Hairy Snatcher was afoot (that is what she was called in Parliament behind her back at the time).

When will we be rid of this monstrous chimera!!!

Some light relief:

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Tittf

Would you say that Banks are controllable?
Are Power and Energy companies controllable?
Are Water Companies controllable?

Of course the whole point about 'Free Enterprise' is that they are not controlled, they are able to do what they like to make a buck...

the supposed oversight groups like Ofgen, Ofwat have admitted thet they have no powers to do anything about over charging/pricing or how services are provided and are really just 'jobs for the boys' groups.

You claim the organisations such as the NHS are not contollable but they are subjected to inspection by groups such a CQC or Monitor, who are able to go in at no notice and inspect and scruinise any aspect of the services provided and demand changes/improvements or close the service down on the spot if they so wished....

Ofsted are able to inspect most schools, of course Gove as arranged that his beloved 'Free Schools' are exempt for this arrangement and he is now even ordering Ofsted in to school which refuse to follow his dictat that they should become 'free schools'......

I wonder if Camerons proposed privatised road system will have an inspection body? Ofroad anybody????

In a fair and decent world, if Mr A earned £100 and Mr B earned £120 for doing similar jobs, the powers that be would say "dont worry Mr A, given time we will raise your wage to that of Mr B"

But in an unfair world controled by greedy, nasty, selfish people ( the Tories ) - it works the opposite way around, the man on the better wage MUST be brought down to the level of the man on the poorer wage.

All part and parcel of the victimisation of the public / state sector

astradt.

He licks Tory ar5e because their policies suit his lifestyle. No matter that they are blatently transfering wealth from the bottom and middle to the top, he will pathetically attempt to defend them tooth and nail regardless of their obvious evil greedy doings.

Property owned and let at home and overseas and income over £150kpa.
These are the sort the Tories look after at the expense of the masses.

Just like Camer-con and Co, uncaring and utterly selfish. A true and proud Tory supporter.

Can I safely assume your whinging about me melly. Wish I did earn over £150k.
Lets see, remove pension tax relief.
Lets see, remove the 10% tax bracket for low earners.
Lets see, build hospitals and schools using private investment thats now forcing hospitals to close due to the highest repayments in the western hemishere.

Now which caring governments did this melly?

By the way hope your brass neck isn't playing you up and that you managed to get a new bank cleaning job, as always nothing but nice thoughts when thinking of yourself and the other champagne socialists.

It was Thatcher's Chancellor Lawson who subtracted tax relief from the Pension equation. Gordon Brown completed a task already begun.

The PFI initiative was a Tory wheeze concocted in 1992, five years before Blair swept the thieves from office. http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp2001/rp01-117.pdf

And Norman Lamont reduced the dividend tax credit in 1993, but I don't remember any Tories calling that a "pension raid".

Whatever they do this government is definitely fresh from the Twilight Zone...