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Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

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Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Ivanhoe on Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:13 am

OUR three main political parties made a great deal about the deficit, before, including and after the TV debates, and Gordon Brown got the blame, how very convenient.

The truth is that the deficit was brought about by the former New Labour Government continuing the right wing low income tax agenda from the former Thatcher/Major years. But not one political party had the guts to admit this, before, on or after the three TV debates.

The media never challenged this either, because Britain has been a low income tax nation since the 80s, while most of our wealth goes abroad.

All we heard in the debates was about how best to reduce our deficit, even though the £6billion is just a fraction of the actual deficit of £160billion, and now the Tories are going to use the deficit as an excuse to cut jobs and create even more welfare dependency than there has been since the 80s and the free market was introduced.


Now, the British Tory voters have put the Tories back in the perfect position to cut services to the bone over their five-year term of office, because the free market needs a vast number of unemployed people to make it work, while also controlling the economy, hence the Tory cuts straight away, creating mass unemployment, and the British Tory voter this time round, actually voted for these cuts.

And the Tories are going to move the retirement age up to 68, if the TV debates were anything to go by, as part of cutting the deficit, and I can't believe Tory voters voted for this either.

I never imagined that the Tories would beat New Labour, albeit to form a minority government, following the 18 years of Thatcher and Major. I can now assume that the British do indeed have very short memories because factually Gordon Brown and Tony Blair did help out the pensioners and give help to low-paid workers via tax credits. The Tories would never do this, it is their sole aim to help their own. So I have to ask why did so many people vote for the establishment party, the Tory party, at this general election ?

I make no bones about it when I say that our politicians are now playing politics with people's lives and livelihoods, because who knows where the budget cuts will fall over this five-year term. Who knows how many people will lose their jobs and won't be able to pay their mortgages and will end up homeless while our politicians remain in their ivory towers, feeling not one millionth of the insecurity felt by the vast majority of the people in this country who struggle to keep body and soul together, to keep a roof over their heads. The politicians call what they do 'hard choices' when in truth the cuts to come are nothing short of barbarism.

The New Labour government at least helped the poor, the establishment party — ie the right wing of the Tory party — are once again returned to power, and the Lib-Dems are keeping them there.
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by tlttf on Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:19 am

What utter tripe Ivan. Your selective memory is amazing, praytell how cutting tax relief on pensions is helping the old, pray tell how throwing money at education, the NHS etc without improvements helped anybody and please explain why the same idiots that screwed up admit they'd follow the lead of the present coalition (but not as quickly). By your imaginings the previous troughites knew what was going to happen and were quite happy to bail out so somebody else would have to make the hard choices. What utter b*ll*cks.

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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Redflag on Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:09 am

tlttf wrote:What utter tripe Ivan. Your selective memory is amazing, praytell how cutting tax relief on pensions is helping the old, pray tell how throwing money at education, the NHS etc without improvements helped anybody and please explain why the same idiots that screwed up admit they'd follow the lead of the present coalition (but not as quickly). By your imaginings the previous troughites knew what was going to happen and were quite happy to bail out so somebody else would have to make the hard choices. What utter b*ll*cks.

The pensions that get tax relief are those of the FAT CATS with pensions of £50,000 but the public sector pensions are going to hit very hard come April so where is the fairness in that, as for throwing money at the NHS many a person have been glad it was there and what about car crashes or motor cycle accidents that need medical help urgently is that a waste of money, or the Education system that has helped to get someone into Uni and then onto a good job that has helped them buy a house and provide for there families so they could pay there taxes which in turn helps the next generation with there medical and Educational needs.

As for the last lot as you say you can not judge you have not got a clue what the Labour party or how they would have handled the deficit so do not spout your own Ideology, lone thing I will give you is the Bail out of the Banks I would have let them go to HELL in a bucket so the only one talking UNCARING B/S is yourself.
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by betty.noire on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:49 am

tlttf wrote:What utter tripe Ivan. Your selective memory is amazing, praytell how cutting tax relief on pensions is helping the old, pray tell how throwing money at education, the NHS etc without improvements helped anybody and please explain why the same idiots that screwed up admit they'd follow the lead of the present coalition (but not as quickly). By your imaginings the previous troughites knew what was going to happen and were quite happy to bail out so somebody else would have to make the hard choices. What utter b*ll*cks.

Now now, no more boom and bust and all that crud Laughing
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by blueturando on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:57 am

Labour 'Detached From The Economic Reality', Senior Party Worker Blogs On HuffPost The Huffington Post UK | By Chris Wimpress Posted: 19/03/2012 14:03

Just days before the budget is announced, a senior Labour party worker at Westminster has written a blistering attack on Ed Miliband's failure to win over support from the business and financial sectors in Britain, arguing that since the 2010 general election "Labour has consistently been out of line with and detached from the economic reality."

In a blog for HuffPost UK, the disgruntled party member claims:
"It is the irresponsible reaction of our Labour opposition, of which I am a member, both to the economic crisis we face and to the strong economic legacy of our party they have shredded that will cause the most damage to this country in the long run."
Speaking to us about his blog, the Westminster insider said his post was written out of "sheer frustration", giving further weight to newspaper and blog reports last week which documented an escalating sense of turmoil and disconnect within the very heart of the Labour operation.
It confirms what many Labour insiders have been briefing for several days - that the leadership of Ed Milband and the prevailing views of party workers in Labour HQ are at odds with each other.

The blogger explains:
In recent days we have seen a coup in Labour's headquarters. The leadership sees the party as being too ‘New Labour’ and distanced from its message of public sector enlargement. And it’s the message of opposing almost every single cut that is causing the most damage to Labour’s reputation.
On Wednesday, Ed Miliband will have to stand at the dispatch box and deliver Labour's response to George Osborne's 2012 Budget. Labour have said they oppose the scrapping of the 50p tax rate - something widely believed to be included in the Budget statement - although from Monday's HuffPost blog, it seems not everyone is singing from the same song sheet.
On the 50p tax, for example, the party will not listen. The party has openly said that they would keep it even if this meant less money in the exchequer. I believe that this is trite populism of the worst kind, disregarding all warnings in favour of a politics of class war and jealousy, redistributing wealth from hard working squeezed families.

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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Ivanhoe on Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:00 pm

tlttf wrote:What utter tripe Ivan. Your selective memory is amazing, praytell how cutting tax relief on pensions is helping the old, pray tell how throwing money at education, the NHS etc without improvements helped anybody and please explain why the same idiots that screwed up admit they'd follow the lead of the present coalition (but not as quickly). By your imaginings the previous troughites knew what was going to happen and were quite happy to bail out so somebody else would have to make the hard choices. What utter b*ll*cks.

titti, Are you refering to myself, or Ivan ?
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by witchfinder on Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:53 pm

Can anyone actualy remember what state the NHS was in at the time of the landslide victory by Labour in 1997. ?

Investment in new buildings, capital projects and new hospitals was at an almost standstill.

Waiting times and waiting lists were at a record high, and getting longer.

There was a severe shortage of staff at all levels, junior doctors were falling asleep on the job through exhaustion and crazy hours, staff morale was at an all time low.

There was the annual "Winter Bed Crisis", shortage of beds, news reports of sick people been taken from town to town by ambulance or hellicopter looking for a spare bed, patients left lying on trolleys in corridors.

And those that support the Conservatives have the blatant cheeck, the audacity to state that Labour "threw money at the problem without achieving any results" - how dare they.

The government of Tony Blair rescued the NHS from 18 years of under-investment and they employed thousands of extra doctors, thousands of extra nurses, instigated the biggest building and remodernisation programme ever undertaken in the NHS.

Under Tony Blair, waiting times and waiting lists went down dramaticly, today as I type this, those same waiting lists and waiting times are now creeping back up again ( the Tories are back in power ).

The NHS, like all public services, are unsafe in the hands of this government.
I am afraid that political dogma is far more important than public service, private business and profit is what matters, the NHS has always suffered under a Tory government because of their inbuilt hatred of anything state or publicly owned and run.

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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Ivan on Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:58 pm

blueturando. “Senior party worker”, “the disgruntled party member”, “the Westminster insider”, “the blogger”. Nice try, but the story lacks any credibility because it’s anonymous and could therefore easily be a piece of fiction. And posting it in bold type doesn’t make it any more believable.

Perhaps your memory doesn’t stretch back two years or so, when the Tories opposed everything Labour did in office. But then again, some people might argue that the duty of an opposition is to oppose, otherwise we end up with a one-party state.

I laughed at the comment about “disregarding all warnings in favour of a politics of class war and jealousy, redistributing wealth from hard working squeezed families”. I suggest you go and tell that to George Osborne, who wants to reduce tax for the rich while making a cut in real terms to the minimum wage.

For the record, the last independent analysis of the 50p tax rate estimated that it brings in £2.7 billion a year. Cutting it won’t increase revenue, that’s just one of the standard Tory lies from those who can’t bear to see the rich paying anywhere near their fair share. Anyone who is minded to avoid 50% tax will be just as keen to avoid 40% tax and even 20% tax. On the other hand, J.K.Rowling, who is a multimillionaire, is quite happy to pay her share of taxes, but then she’s not a Tory. I believe that Warren Buffett in the USA feels much the same.

Your anonymous article could well have been written by a Tory trying to make trouble for Ed Miliband as Labour gradually starts to move ahead in the polls (6% lead yesterday). As one of the readers commented: “Is this a real Labour Party worker? It could be anyone.” Another considered this to be “a terrible editorial decision to print an anonymous attack.”

What concerns me most about your posting, blue, is that it’s almost certainly a breach of copyright. You haven’t pasted the entire article, but there’s more than the recommended ‘safe’ maximum of 14 lines, and you didn’t even acknowledge the source:-
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/labour-party-worker/budget-2012-labour_b_1361807.html?ref=uk

I urge you and anyone else thinking of reproducing sources on this forum to read this:-
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t137-copyright-concerns

Shirina and I are not keen on being sued for damages by a newspaper, and so I will be asking moderators to delete messages which are in breach of copyright. They won’t be deleted because we don’t like the content, they’ll be deleted because they break the law.


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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by tlttf on Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:10 pm

My apologies to Ivan for mistaking him for Ivanhoe, from now I'll be more careful. Unfortunately the the same disdain for all things not leftfoot apply though my comments were made to IHoe.

Witchy I'd go build an hospital tomorrow on the same terms the troughites signed up for, PPI, the only public part is the cost to the taxpayer, or do you really think we got a good deal when hospitals can't repay the monthly rents to the companies that built them and are looking to close. I know lets blame the coalition who didn't signed up to the 25year deal!

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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by blueturando on Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:13 pm

Yes Ivan....that's all well and good and I hope you don't mind if I point out the endless copied and pasted posts that don't get flagged up on account that they will be slagging the Tories?????

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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by tlttf on Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:19 pm

Nice to see I'm not the only one to notice that blue.

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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Mel on Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:33 pm

"My apologies to Ivan for mistaking him for Ivanhoe, from now I'll be more careful."

I should think so too!!!!!!! Rushing to attack and defend your evil party, putting the usual sixpennyworth of--------- the

Same old crap "Troughites", " *King Brown" " What utter b*ll*cks" before us.
Cant you find any copy pasted usual rot from you Tory rags?

Enjoy your fruits of Gideon's budget and clear off back to your beloved Spain.

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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Ivan on Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:34 pm

Yes Ivan....that's all well and good and I hope you don't mind if I point out the endless copied and pasted posts that don't get flagged up on account that they will be slagging the Tories?????.
blueturando. Now you're being unfair. I thought you knew me well enough to know that I respect your right to free speech.

Copying and pasting is okay - I do a fair amount of it myself - but the extracts pasted must not be too long. I can't read every posting on this forum (which is why there are moderators), but it doesn't matter if the items are attacking Labour or the Tories, I don't want to be prosecuted for allowing copyright to be breached. If you see a post which reproduces more than about 14 or 15 lines of a newspaper article, please bring it to the attention of one of the staff.
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Ivanhoe on Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:46 pm

Mel wrote:"My apologies to Ivan for mistaking him for Ivanhoe, from now I'll be more careful."

I should think so too!!!!!!! Rushing to attack and defend your evil party, putting the usual sixpennyworth of--------- the

Same old crap "Troughites", " *King Brown" " What utter b*ll*cks" before us.
Cant you find any copy pasted usual rot from you Tory rags?

Enjoy your fruits of Gideon's budget and clear off back to your beloved Spain.


"ouch"
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by tlttf on Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:49 pm

Ah melly, there's me thinking you'd been put out to grass as your brain has been declining rapidly over the last few weeks, hopefully you'll keep your whinging going until after the budget tomorrow, then I can print off some of your shyte to show to my ates down at the pub.

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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:49 pm

tlttf wrote:My apologies to Ivan for mistaking him for Ivanhoe, from now I'll be more careful. Unfortunately the the same disdain for all things not leftfoot apply though my comments were made to IHoe.

Witchy I'd go build an hospital tomorrow on the same terms the troughites signed up for, PPI, the only public part is the cost to the taxpayer, or do you really think we got a good deal when hospitals can't repay the monthly rents to the companies that built them and are looking to close. I know lets blame the coalition who didn't signed up to the 25year deal!

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp2001/rp01-117.pdf

You mean PFI but write PPI and have failed to notice that it was introduced by John Major's government.
Was John Major a "troughite"?
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by witchfinder on Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:34 pm

oftenwrong -- is of course correct, PFI was introduced into this country by John Major, and allthough everyone has their own particular view of PFI, I personaly think that it can be a good way of building schools and hospitals without outlaying the full and necessary costs there and then.

In most instances, PFI works like a mortgage or loan, yes there is interest but it means you get your new hospital now, not in many years from now.

Projects built using PFI are not paid for directly by the treasurey, the repayments are made by either the NHS, individual health or education authorities or by the department of education.

Outstanding PFI payments are not counted as part of the National Debt, but instead are accounted as the same as loan, hire or interest payments by individul health authorities, LEAs or the NHS for example.



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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Mel on Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:32 am

" then I can print off some of your shyte to show to my ates down at the pub."

"ates"??? did you mean apes down at the pub?

If it's "mates" surely must be the singular rather than the plural and with mates like you, who needs enemies?
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:41 pm

(Thursday, 29 March 2012)

It's Official, Britain is again in Recession.
What's Gideon going to do for an encore?

and now where have I put my Passport?
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Mel on Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:42 am

Osborne will blame it on the Euro crisis.
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Mel on Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:49 am

This purposely created fuel crisis by Maude has worked. The emphasis is now well and truly off the cash for dinner and influence saga.
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by tlttf on Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:44 am

Cash for dinner is a common system amongst all parties mel, have you forgotten Lord Prescott and his game of croquet. Blair used to have pop stars drop in to Downing Street for a bit of scran.

In fact the only cabinet minister that didn't do (if you don't count sleep overs with the Murdock dynasty) was *king Brown who probably had to pay people to listen to him droll on.

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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Mel on Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:50 am

It's not the dinner that is the problem. It is the cash for favours that is the problem here.

Now that it's a rabbit caught in the headlights, it's create a diversion of any kind at all costs even if doing so creates panic buying at the pumps and all the mayhem that is created.


Last edited by Mel on Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Mel on Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:53 am

We can all bash away at previous PM's of all political parties and especially Thatcher. She is in the past so all you Tory lovers keep saying. The same applies to Brown and Blair, they are also in the past, let's concentrate on the present,as the past wont help your cause.
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Ivanhoe on Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:55 am

Mel wrote:We can all bash away at previous PM's of all political parties and especially Thatcher. She is in the past so all you Tory lovers keep saying. The same applies to Brown and Blair, they are also in the past, let's concentrate on the present,as the past wont help your cause.

Mel. While we have the free market in place in this country, Thatcherism remains with us.
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Stox 16 on Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:41 am

Mel wrote:We can all bash away at previous PM's of all political parties and especially Thatcher. She is in the past so all you Tory lovers keep saying. The same applies to Brown and Blair, they are also in the past, let's concentrate on the present,as the past wont help your cause.

hear hear Mel...however, we do have a government that is trying in vain to re-live the economics of 1980s..
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Ivanhoe on Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:07 am

Stox 16 wrote:
Mel wrote:We can all bash away at previous PM's of all political parties and especially Thatcher. She is in the past so all you Tory lovers keep saying. The same applies to Brown and Blair, they are also in the past, let's concentrate on the present,as the past wont help your cause.

hear hear Mel...however, we do have a government that is trying in vain to re-live the economics of 1980s..

Stox16, Britain has had Thatcher for over 30 years in this country, because New Labour were Thatcherite as well. We might get rid of the woman, but her free market legacy lives on in this country while the rich get richer on the backs of the poor.
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:43 pm

".... her free market legacy lives on in this country while the rich get richer on the backs of the poor."

The really worrying thing is that the Tories don't care that we've noticed.
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Ivanhoe on Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:01 pm

oftenwrong wrote:".... her free market legacy lives on in this country while the rich get richer on the backs of the poor."

The really worrying thing is that the Tories don't care that we've noticed.

No. The really worrying thing is that largely the British people in my view, have no idea of the reasons why these things are happening, just that they are happening.
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:08 pm

One can only speak for oneself.
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Ivanhoe on Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:21 pm

oftenwrong wrote:One can only speak for oneself.

Please do, then ?
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:50 pm

I'm waiting to see what the wailing cry-babies on this topic are going to squeal about next. It's not only nauseating to read such wallowing self-pity but also paradoxical that the ultimate goal is identical to that of The bloated Tories - I want it all, I want it now. The only difference being that The Chancellor of the Exchequer does little to conceal naked greed.
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Ivanhoe on Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:22 pm

oftenwrong wrote:I'm waiting to see what the wailing cry-babies on this topic are going to squeal about next. It's not only nauseating to read such wallowing self-pity but also paradoxical that the ultimate goal is identical to that of The bloated Tories - I want it all, I want it now. The only difference being that The Chancellor of the Exchequer does little to conceal naked greed.


""The only difference being that The Chancellor of the Exchequer does little to conceal naked greed.[/quote]""

And this is because we are a free country in a free market.
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:33 pm

IN THE LATE SIXTIES JANIS JOPLIN'S voice rallied the bedraggled front lines of the cultural revolution with the refrain from "Me and Bobby McGee": "Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose." As she sang, the United States was committed to an unjust war, race riots had some cities in flames and every city on edge, and psychedelic drugs promised salvation from personal despair through sex, love, and ecstatic communion.

http://www.tricycle.com/special-section/on-translation-freedoms-just-another-word
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Stox 16 on Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:04 am

Ivanhoe wrote:
oftenwrong wrote:I'm waiting to see what the wailing cry-babies on this topic are going to squeal about next. It's not only nauseating to read such wallowing self-pity but also paradoxical that the ultimate goal is identical to that of The bloated Tories - I want it all, I want it now. The only difference being that The Chancellor of the Exchequer does little to conceal naked greed.


""The only difference being that The Chancellor of the Exchequer does little to conceal naked greed.
""

And this is because we are a free country in a free market. [/quote]

Ivanhoe
I happen to believe this so-called budget was a real game changer....as its so very clear where there heart lays now...the city of London and no one else
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Ivanhoe on Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:13 am

Stox 16 wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:
oftenwrong wrote:I'm waiting to see what the wailing cry-babies on this topic are going to squeal about next. It's not only nauseating to read such wallowing self-pity but also paradoxical that the ultimate goal is identical to that of The bloated Tories - I want it all, I want it now. The only difference being that The Chancellor of the Exchequer does little to conceal naked greed.


""The only difference being that The Chancellor of the Exchequer does little to conceal naked greed.
""

And this is because we are a free country in a free market.

Ivanhoe
I happen to believe this so-called budget was a real game changer....as its so very clear where there heart lays now...the city of London and no one else [/quote]

Stox16, What do you expect from a right wing Tory establishement ?, to think we have had the same free market system since Thatcher, that's over 30 years.
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by tlttf on Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:57 am

The coalition is being hmmered in the press and by lefties (surprise surprise) and yet people still distrust milli and company to do better. Weird world innit?

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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Ivanhoe on Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:14 pm

tlttf wrote:The coalition is being hmmered in the press and by lefties (surprise surprise) and yet people still distrust milli and company to do better. Weird world innit?

I take it that you are another Tory, tifft ?
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Mel on Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:12 pm

"I take it that you are another Tory, tifft ?"

Cor blimey Ivanhoe, aint it obvious???

He will deny it though and advise you to vote Independant whilst having previously yet reluctantly admitted he voted Tory at the last election.
Confused .Com??? He obviously is.
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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

Post by Ivanhoe on Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:39 pm

Mel wrote:"I take it that you are another Tory, tifft ?"

Cor blimey Ivanhoe, aint it obvious???

He will deny it though and advise you to vote Independant whilst having previously yet reluctantly admitted he voted Tory at the last election.
Confused .Com??? He obviously is.

Mel. British Tory voters have no idea what they are voting for. A lot of it is snobbery & class. And most of it is political ignorance.

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Re: Deficit is excuse for the Tories to cut jobs

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