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Are unalienable human rights applicable only in certain countries?

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Are unalienable human rights applicable only in certain countries?

Post by ROB on Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:23 pm

First topic message reminder :


Oftenwrong posted this thought provoking message on another board.

oftenwrong wrote:
RockOnBrother wrote:
… freedom of speech is guaranteed by law…
Law should ideally be Universal, but in fact it depends where you are in the World whether an action (including speech) is legal or sanctionable.  Simply crossing an international border can render something you are carrying illegal.  (Try taking an apple through US Customs).

Freedom of speech is by no means a worldwide concept.

Is Oftenwrong correct? Are unalienable human rights for all, such as freedom of speech, applicable only in certain countries? Or should all humans worldwide enjoy these rights?
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Re: Are unalienable human rights applicable only in certain countries?

Post by ROB on Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:45 pm

trevorw2539 wrote:
RoC.

Several questions?

How long has it taken you to work out those.

I’ll answer your question after you’ve answered at least some of the questions I’ve asked in such a fashion that no inferences are necessary on my part.

I await at least some of your answers.

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Re: Are unalienable human rights applicable only in certain countries?

Post by tlttf on Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:59 am

Strangely enough while this thread has turned into a load of bollocks, the civilised west are having their citizens killed trying to protect the human rights of people being systematically brutalised by backward religious dictatorships professing to be following the muslim faith. Who gets the blame for this, why the west of course. Funny old world innit.

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Re: Are unalienable human rights applicable only in certain countries?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:31 pm

But the surprise will be if "The West" has learned to mind its own bloody business for a change instead of constantly trying to show other people what they are doing wrong.
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Re: Are unalienable human rights applicable only in certain countries?

Post by trevorw2539 on Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:49 pm

Oftenwrong quote

But the surprise will be if "The West" has learned to mind its own bloody business for a change instead of constantly trying to show other people what they are doing wrong.

But you don't believe in miracles. Do you?
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Re: Are unalienable human rights applicable only in certain countries?

Post by Shirina on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:39 pm

But the surprise will be if "The West" has learned to mind its own bloody business for a change instead of constantly trying to show other people what they are doing wrong.
The tyrants and radicals of Islam use The West as their monster in the closet, something to be afraid of, something to hate. Like with any tyrant regime, the leadership really only cares about one thing: The increase and continuance of its own power. After all, you never see Osama bin Laden or Omar Abdel-Rahman strapping on a bomb vest or flying planes into buildings. Western Civilization is a great distraction, for not only are there a few concrete wrongs that radical Islam can point to, it's also very far away - unlike, say, China, which has embraced a Western-style consumer culture that radical Islam claims to hate so much. So just what does The West distract people away from, you might ask? Well, the Islamic leadership's own tyranny, of course!

There's nothing like a beefed-up, highly vilified foreign enemy to take the general population's eye off the ball. Those of us paying attention here in America are only too well aware of that fact since we had to put up with the same tactic since 1946 starting with communism on up through to Islam. The mantra is, and has always been, "Be afraid. Be very afraid ... that way you won't notice as I slip this tyrannical law past your noses. For your own protection, of course."
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Re: Are unalienable human rights applicable only in certain countries?

Post by Ivan on Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:23 pm

Saudi Arabia is our friend, it's just a bit difficult to love...

From an article by Mark Steel:-

It can be complicated to work out what to do with men of violence in the Middle East, with their medieval beliefs and love of beheadings. So our foreign secretary wanted to try a novel approach, which was to arrange a £5.9m deal with them so they could build a prison.

The prison deal has been cancelled, but the foreign secretary is apparently fuming. One of his supporters said: “Now is not the time to annoy Saudi Arabia by causing a diplomatic squabble”. Obviously it’s not a good time when they’re beheading people, sentencing pensioners to being lashed for making wine or stoning women to death for adultery. Maybe the best time for a diplomatic squabble is when a country is not doing any of those things, and so it’s time we broke off relations with Iceland for having too many puffins.

It’s also turned out that Cameron made an arrangement to ensure both Saudi Arabia and the UK got a place on the UN’s Human Rights Council. Because everyone knows the Saudis are the ideal people to adjudicate on human rights. Cameron said the deal was struck because the British government “has a relationship with Saudi Arabia”. Defenders of the relationship like to point out that the Saudi regime is becoming more liberal, especially with its attitudes towards women. For example, Saudi Arabia is the only country where women receive no extra penalty if they’re caught drinking and driving, as they get jailed for either so they might as well do both at the same time.


For the whole article:-
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/saudi-arabia-is-our-friend-its-just-a-bit-difficult-to-love-a6695921.html
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Re: Are unalienable human rights applicable only in certain countries?

Post by boatlady on Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:01 am

As always when we have a Tory government it seems we have to condone the most barbaric and brutal of regimes - could it be that, without fascist dictatorships our current leaders would be just a set of 'Billy no-mates'?
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Re: Are unalienable human rights applicable only in certain countries?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:57 am

Oil Sheikhs are the living proof that money doesn't bring happiness.
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Re: Are unalienable human rights applicable only in certain countries?

Post by TriMonk3y on Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:24 pm

There are of course no such thing as inalienable human rights, legally at least.

While certain rights in the US are constitutionally protected the constitution is alterable. You will find mention of inalienable rights in the Declaration of Independence - but nowhere in in the constitution or bill of rights.

Similarly most of the rights in the European Convention are qualified - including the right to life. The most notable exceptions to that being slavery, and toruture, inhumane or degrading treatment (the death penalty was subsequently prohibited by the 13th Protocol - but it doesn't cover death occurring in war, insurrection, pursuit). With those exceptions almost all of the others can be derogated from under Article 15.

The Human Rights Act is not entrenched in the UK and unlike the US constitution requires no special procedure to change.

Ironic that under the Companies Act 2006 you must have 75% of the vote to alter a companies constitution, but the constitution, if you can find it, can be tinkered with on the basis of about 32% of those who vote in general elections. I digress, as usual.

I didn't trawl through the first couple of pages, sorry if somebody already pointed this out!
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Re: Are unalienable human rights applicable only in certain countries?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:24 pm

As is so often the case, "more means less". More co-operation between European nations enables anyone to be arrested anywhere in the EC now there is the European arrest warrant.

Formerly, political exiles could move themselves to safety in a neighbouring country.
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Re: Are unalienable human rights applicable only in certain countries?

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