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Has nothing changed in two years?

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Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:35 am

First topic message reminder :

A safe Labour seat has been wiped out by a 10,000-vote majority in favour of George Galloway.

Voter apathy at the General Election effectively meant that none of the main parties enjoyed enough support to form a Government.

The result in West Bradford by-election suggests that is still the case. There is little public support for any of the three main parties.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by AwfulTruth on Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:56 pm

Blamhappy

What a xxxxxxx that Murdoch is...I hate him.

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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Blamhappy on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:06 pm

AwfulTruth wrote:Blamhappy

What a xxxxxxx that Murdoch is...I hate him.

Same here, although it's highly amusing that he has now decided that he hates Cameron. Have you noticed the turn in the press? Thing is, I'm not sure if that means it'll start supporting Miliband! But it's better than nothing. Funny how most Sun-readers probably don't even notice. They'll just start regarding Cameron as a plonker without questioning WHY they suddenly feel this way. Despite what some say, I still think the press in this country is powerful.

Labour leadership - it's such a shame that the other brother didn't get in, but testament to the loyalty of the Party and the love of family that this was never allowed to become an issue for the press to enjoy and attack Ed with. I think David could have easily ousted his brother. If he hadn't resigned from the front bench, the press would have had a field day and eventually, Ed would have been sent packing.

Having said that, Labour is far from perfect. I know I sound like I'm incredibly loyal and biased, but I didn't actually vote Labour at the last election. I voted Lib Dem. I was naive and taken in by Clegg hook, line, and sinker. I'm not that smart!
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by astra on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:13 pm

The Tories even now have the population committing Sati (Su-thi or Suttee) so they must be having some effect!



EDIT



Gordon Brown could not manage THAT!!


Last edited by astra on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Mel on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:16 pm

blue, you know as well as the rest of us that your beloved Camer con man refused to answer when in opposition questions re what his party would do if elected. His answer was "we don't want Labour pinching our ideas"

Some idea's I might add.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by bobby on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:24 pm

Blamhappy. I think you are doing yourself an injustice , you like thousands of others did no more than believe in Lib-Dem values. The values that have in the main been fair and honest, Some voted because they believed in what Clegg said time and time again, Vote Lib-Dem and keep the Tories out, many students voted for them because of their signed PLEDGE not to introduce Students Fee’s and so on. It seems they will now say and do almost anything to keep the trappings of power, which includes voting for the NHS privatisation.
How where you to know that they would cast off all their beliefs, beliefs they have held for many years, even Shirly Williams is turning into a Tory, mind you, that now makes the full set, Labour, SDP, Lib-Dem and now Tory. Who next.

So by believing the Lib-Dems would stand up for the principles they have had as long as I can remember doesn’t IMHO make you naïve but them dishonest.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Blamhappy on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:34 pm

bobby wrote:Blamhappy. I think you are doing yourself an injustice , you like thousands of others did no more than believe in Lib-Dem values. The values that have in the main been fair and honest, Some voted because they believed in what Clegg said time and time again, Vote Lib-Dem and keep the Tories out, many students voted for them because of their signed PLEDGE not to introduce Students Fee’s and so on. It seems they will now say and do almost anything to keep the trappings of power, which includes voting for the NHS privatisation.
How where you to know that they would cast off all their beliefs, beliefs they have held for many years, even Shirly Williams is turning into a Tory, mind you, that now makes the full set, Labour, SDP, Lib-Dem and now Tory. Who next.

So by believing the Lib-Dems would stand up for the principles they have had as long as I can remember doesn’t IMHO make you naïve but them dishonest.

I think you need to have a level of savvy to get it right with voting. I believed that Clegg had a new vision for the country - that he was more likely to deliver fairness than Labour. I didn't want to re-elect Labour because I believed that they were becoming stale and that values were starting to become unclear. I thought the Lib Dems were a viable, socialist-leaning alternative.

What I didn't bargain for was that Clegg is every bit as power-hungry as any other politician. I thought he was different. I felt that he performed the best in the leaders' debates, and I thought he came across as sincere. I actually liked Brown, but I felt that he had lost touch with the public, and didn't have any of the media know-how that leaders need really to be able to connect with the public and have any chance of becoming popular. It seemed pointless voting him back in.

I know exactly what the Conservative Party stands for, and I didn't believe Cameron when he talked about fairness and about his passion for the NHS. He never seemed sincere to me, and I always felt that he'd end up pleasing the right of the Party.

So, for me, the choice at the time of the last election was clear. I wanted an end to the two-horse-race, but I didn't want the Conservatives in. So I voted Lib Dem, which ended up being effectively a vote for the Conservatives.

I probably should have listened to my family. My parents advised me against, saying that it might seem that the Lib Dems have a chance, but the polls don't reflect what actually happens. My extended family commented afterwards that Clegg has never been sincere. They weren't taken in by any of it.

It's frustrating. I don't necessarily blame myself, but I will think differently at all future elections. I've always been a trusting person, but I think I need to be less trusting and more savvy and aware in the future when it comes to who runs our country. I feel, like I did before, that I have no choice but to vote Labour. I don't mind that under people like the Milibands, but I'll be disappointed if we end up with another Gordon Brown because I'll basically be voting against my wishes because I'll feel like I have no choice.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by AwfulTruth on Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:27 pm

Quote from Blamhappy

'Labour leadership - it's such a shame that the other brother didn't get in, but testament to the loyalty of the Party and the love of family that this was never allowed to become an issue for the press to enjoy and attack Ed with.'



True about the press, although I have to say here that I find David scarily like a clone of Tony Blair: heavens he even sounds like him - study that very 'studied' Blair-like manner and the way he effuses in a similar style.

I have absolutely no idea if Ed will be any good, but purely by a blind, kick-me-in-the-shins-to-wake-me-up faith in wishes, I am going to say that not only is Ed better than nothing, he will probably be better than his probably just as capable brother. If I sound confused it's because that rudely piratical ideologue George Galloway has shivered me timbers!


Well, George, this is another fine mess you've gotten us into!!! :affraid:

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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by AwfulTruth on Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:30 pm

For the record I voted for the LibDems at the last election and now regret bitterly my wasted vote.

I will vote Labour just to get this shambolic bunch of idiots out of office.

My fear is that too much damage has already been wreaked.

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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Blamhappy on Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:34 pm

Perhaps there is a naivety amongst Lefties?

If it weren't for people like you and me, Labour would be ruling now and we wouldn't have this thrust of privatisation and extreme cuts.

I don't know David really, but on the surface he just seems like more of a leader and he's more popular. I know that it is said that he is less Left than his brother, but that doesn't bother me actually. As long as he's not right of centre, I'm happy.

I'd just rather have someone who's more of a leader. Tony Blair was a brilliant leader - a bit too authoritarian towards the end, but I think people felt like they were safe with him. He knew what he was doing, and found political discussion easy peasy. Ed is too easily criticised at PMQs. I think he's strong, but not necessarily a strong leader.

I could be wrong though! If he gets Labour in at the next election, I'll be happy.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by blueturando on Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:36 pm

Well AW.....Labour may have a problem doing that, but at the moment just cannot admit it....Please see a post from a typical Labour voter below


heather1990
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• Quote this entry and comment

morrissey9 wrote...Tricky one, Scotland has an alternative - the SNP. Bradford has an alternative - the independent George Galloway, but there is no coherent, nationwide alternative to Labour. Come a general election you aren't going to get 200+ George Galloways around the country tapping into deep local feelings in this way.

heather1990
This is the problem! I honestly don't know who I will vote for in the future. I come from a long line of labour voters but the only reason I voted labour in the general election was that the lib dem and tory candidates were from outside the area. The long standing labour MP did some excellent work for the area and lives just a few miles away in the nearest town. I wasn't voting for gordon brown and I certainly won't be voting for milliband.

We need someone completely different in the same way Obama has been for the US. They are all the same and no personality, never answer a question and all have the same policies. All milliband does is swipe at the tories but never outlines any alternatives. I honestly think if Cameron said milliband should stay as labour leader milliband would argue the opposite!
• Posted on 30/03/12 at 10:40

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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Blamhappy on Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:50 pm

It's true - there is no viable alternative to Labour. It's a two horse race. If you're right wing, you vote Conservative. If you're left wing, you vote Labour.

I would love to have a bit more choice.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Ivan on Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:51 pm

blueturando. Any chance that you might post the source of your anecdotes?

It seems to me that Cameron - who is supposed to be PM - spends his time at PMQT trying to ask Ed Miliband questions rather than answering ones put to him. Of course Ed will oppose the Tories, that's the job of the opposition, and it's all Cameron ever did before 2010.

We don't need an alternative to Labour, we need an alternative to this evil government, and in England there's only one. Splitting the left vote, as Galloway did in Bradford and as the Lib Dems did in 2010, only serves to weaken Labour and assist the Tories.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by blueturando on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:12 pm

Sorry to disappoint you Ivan, but the current Labour lot are not 'Left' at all, so Galloway is not splitting the vote, but Labour is losing voters because they are more like the Tories.....+ he loves the Islamists, we knew that all along

You got to admit though Ivan....It is quite funny Smile

As requested here's the link for my previous anecdote, as you put it

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Ivan on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:23 pm

Thanks for the link, blue.

I dislike Galloway because of this:-

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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by bobby on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:24 pm

My appologies for not welcoming you to cutting edge on my preveous post. So Welcome Blamhappy.

When Ed Milliband was first voted in as Labour Leader, I had some very serious doubts, and wished it had been David Milliband, this opinion lasted several months. Ed Milliband has I feel grown into the job rather well and has a bit to go, which I’m sure he will manage. Although his politics are further to the left than are Brother David’s, I don’t think that will stop him doing what is right.

Many people mention/complain about Eds performance on PMQ’s, but I think he is doing brilliantly on that front, he doesn’t get personal as doe’s Herr Cameron, and Nick Clegg on the very rare occasions he is let off the leash. Ed Milliband sticks with Politics doesn’t get flustered or loses his temper, which can not be said for the Tory Leader, the one who prior to getting the job of Tory leader said, he will do away with Punch and Judy politics, yet it is Ed Milliband although never saying as such, is as far as is possible not involving himself with Punch and Judy politics, but doing a good job as opposition leader.

As things are Labour are hamstrung to a degree, by Tory sympathising news papers, and even the Chris Patton led BBC is getting more anti Labour as time goes by. The BBC are afraid of upsetting the spitefull Herr Cameron as they fear he will fragment and privatise it should the go against Cameron’s wishes. Despite that, Labour under Ed Milliband is far more popular than was Herr David Cameron at the same time as his leadership of the opposition party. I don’t generally take too much notice of individual polls, but I feel the present trend is something that can not be overlooked, and the trends point towards labour rising quite dramatically.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by tlttf on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:32 pm

The Phoenix will rise first bobby.

Welcome to the lefty lovein Blamhappy, as long as you don't take them as serious you should be okay. Very Happy

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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by blueturando on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:36 pm

tlttf......We should welcome all the Lefties here, how else are we going to educate them?! Laughing

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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Phil Hornby on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:39 pm

If the upcoming local elections result in a poor Labour performance the Party really does have electoral difficulties. If it loses again in London it will also send a clear warning to its Leadership.

But most of all it will sound a very dismal message to the nation at large, which will have -maybe inadvertently -engineered a lengthy spell of Tory Government which it will live to regret bitterly. In truth, we have no outstanding politicians and no especially attractive parties : but a succession of Tory Governments - can Britain really tolerate what that would mean for so many of its citizens?

Today the usual Tory trumpeters are celebrating what they see as a victory for themselves - it is not of course, any such thing, but the very fact that they are suddenly appearing here out of the woodwork is an indication of just how desperate they are to find something to alleviate their discomfort about the daily disasters which Cameron and his Band of Balls-up Blackguards serve up. If a one-off by-election result in an untypical seat is sufficient to send them into raptures, how would they explain away any Labour gains across the country in the local elections in May?

What the country needs is a real alternative to the Tories - it almost doesn't matter what you call that alternative. Unless some grouping or credible political force emerges and is sustainable by common consent, a Tory domination by default is all we have to look forward to. In the name of sanity, we cannot contemplate that...
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Blamhappy on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:39 pm

Thank you for the welcomes. And please don't be sorry for not welcoming me before. I didn't declare that I was new, and I basically just barged in here with long posts. If anything, I was the rude one! Haha!

I am a left, yes. A tree-hugging lefty Very Happy But I respect others' opinions, as long as they're not outrageously racist or whatever else.

I think Ed is good, but is he an election winner? I feel that he's leading the polls at the moment by default; people are dissatisfied with Cameron's leadership. I think that's a real shame - imagine the power that Labour would have if we were well ahead in the polls and had a popular leader to whom the public had warmed.

I want a leader people look up to and see as a leader in waiting.

I guess I'm demanding. Haha!


Last edited by Blamhappy on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Wrong "there". Kicked myself big-time. Edits are becoming a habit on here already!)
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by blueturando on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:40 pm

IVAN....I dont like Galloway either.......He's a bit crazy. Maybe if Scotland go independant, George will go back there Question

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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by blueturando on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:42 pm

Today the usual Tory trumpeters are celebrating what they see as a victory for themselves

It's not Phil, but it is quite embarrassing for your lot.....Labour safe seat and all that

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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by bobby on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:43 pm

blueturando wrote: Sorry to disappoint you Ivan, but the current Labour lot are not 'Left' at all, so Galloway is not splitting the vote, but Labour is losing voters because they are more like the Tories.....+ he loves the Islamists, we knew that all along

How on earth can you think such a thing, let alone place it on an open forum.

You have repeatedly come out with the same or similar nonsense. You and other Tory fools and I must admit 1 so called Labour supporter.. have called Labour , Thatcherite or Tory, if that was the case, please let me know who it was that introduced VAT and has been responsible for every Vat rise since, tell me who it was that sold off/privatised our utilities, tell me who it was that sold off the remaining mines, tell who it was who closed the shipbuilding industry, tell me who it was that sold off the steel industry, tell me who it was who sold off British Rail and tell me who it is that is now fragmenting before selling off the NHS. Had Labour been anything like Thatcherite or Tory, surely we would have done exactly the self same. So its about time you stopped using the politics of Joseph Goebbels going on the belief that if you say something enough times, people will believe it to be true.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by blueturando on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:44 pm

Welcome Blamhappy,

Always good to see new posters joining the forum Smile

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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by bobby on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:48 pm

Ivan.... I dont like Galloway either.

Bloody hell blue you want to hear what he says about you.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Blamhappy on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:57 pm

blueturando wrote:Welcome Blamhappy,

Always good to see new posters joining the forum Smile

You seem to be a lone voice on this forum. Does it get you down? I used to read and post in the politics forum on Digital Spy, but eventually I got fed up with it because it's largely right-leaning. Generally, we get pleasure from spending time with people who hold similar views to our own, don't we?

The truth is, I understand the right-wing view of things, but I can't subscribe to it. (Ultimately, I feel that it's nasty and I think we ought to spend our 80 years on Earth being happy and looking after each other.) However, that doesn't mean that people who do subscribe to it are nasty.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Mel on Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:07 pm

Blamhappy wrote "I didn't want to re-elect Labour because I believed that they were becoming stale and that values were starting to become unclear. I thought the Lib Dems were a viable, socialist-leaning alternative."

Hello Blam and welcome.

Unfortunatey you fell into the trap of thinking like thousands of others that the LD's were "viable". Because of this belief coupled with a very Tory orionated press/media, Brown as you have correctly said "was not given a chance" (blamed for the Global Crisis and people were duped) and the result was Camer-con in via the back door by the skin of his pants. Hence why the masses suffer so much now.

Good posting though Blam. Very refreshing, thank you.

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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by blueturando on Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:07 pm

Bobby.....Do really believe that twaddle you have just written?????

I didn't say Thatcherite, I said Tory.....I am more Left wing than Miliband and his crew and I have never voted Labour in my life. He is just another Toff who throws his toys out of the pram in opposition, but just like Blair and Brown will cozy up to big business and rich individuals when and if they get back into power.

Lets take a brief look over 13 years of Labour leadership....

Happy to let the banks cock up and be greedy
Happy to take large donations from rich people
Cash for honours
Gap between rich and poor grows
100's of stealth taxes aimed at the poor rather than raise income tax on the wealthy
Illegal war in Iraq just to cozy up to the Americans
No interest in closing Tax avoidance loopholes for the rich
Calling a working class Labour voter 'Bigot' for having a legitimate concern on immigration levels
Education, Education, Education........Failed!!!!
Law and order....Failed!!!
Brought in Part privatisation in many areas of the public services sector...including the NHS
In the pocket of the Murdoch press
Ripping off the general public on expenses

Now that list is just off the top of my head, but any old school Labour voter reading that would expect it to be a Tory list, not Labour


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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by blueturando on Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:12 pm

Hi Blam.......I'm not quite a lone voice, but one of a few whos politics differ from the majority on here. It doesn't get me down because I would rather debate than just agree with everything that is said on another forum. I know I get a hard time on here, but all the posters are fair....there is no real nastyness, just strong debate

I wouldn't describe myself as Right wing, but I am a Tory....Working/Middle class who was brought up with principles (Cant wait for the backlash on that one lol)

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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Mel on Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:16 pm

"I got fed up with it because it's largely right-leaning."

I think you will find the Tory supporters will only raise their heads when their party is cornered as they are at the moment. Suddenly the Tories start to go too far having got away with murder several times and become arrogant and confident. It is at this stage that they begin to make errors and show their true ideological selves to Joe public. They then panic and continue to damn themselves in the process as we can so clearly see.

They wont mind losing the next election ( they knew they would from the start) 5yrs and the damage is done and irriversible at that.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Mel on Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:20 pm

Take care blue. After that doctored list of yours you are likely to set me off on the subject of your Witch Thatcher. It would fill this thread and take you a month to read it.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Mel on Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:24 pm

"brought up with principles"

I can see that clearly blue. With that very much in your favour I fail to understand why you back the political horse of NO principles.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:37 pm

Mel wrote:"I got fed up with it because it's largely right-leaning."

I think you will find the Tory supporters will only raise their heads when their party is cornered as they are at the moment. Suddenly the Tories start to go too far having got away with murder several times and become arrogant and confident. It is at this stage that they begin to make errors and show their true ideological selves to Joe public. They then panic and continue to damn themselves in the process as we can so clearly see.

They wont mind losing the next election ( they knew they would from the start) 5yrs and the damage is done and irriversible at that.

Quite so. A last-ditch attempt to conclude the Thatcher Plan. Coincidentally a reminder of the 1990s Tory sleaze whereby some Ministers acquired the ability to walk on water.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Mel on Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:23 pm

"Tory Ministers walking on water"

Now they may be skating on thin ice OW.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by jackthelad on Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:37 pm

Anyone surprised that George Gallaway won in Bradford, i wasn't, Bradford is the new capitol of Pakistan, and not UK friendly. Remember that most of the London suicide bombers came from Bradford. George was a big supporter and admirer of Saddam Hussien, and Gaddafi, or any Islamic country that sticks it's fingers to the west. A staunch supporter of the Palistinians and is so to this day, no condemnation of Palistinian attacks on Israel, but plenty to say when Israel retaliates. The Labour party member who stood for the seat was a muslim, regarded by muslims as a tame muslim, tame muslims are not trusted by other muslims. The red indian did not trust the tame red indian, either, so if George had not thrown is his hat into the ring at this by-election, the tame muslim would have been elected, a tame muslim is better than a christian candidate. George is well know for is support for Islam so they prefered George to the tame muslim, even though George is a Christian (i think), muslims think George is a pussy cat, even George thinks he is a pussy cat (anyone seen him on Big Brother). The Respect Party, how can anyone have respect for a man crawling on his knees on TV pretending to be a cat, how demeaning is that. Anyway, has i haves said, i wasn't surprised he won the seat in mainly muslim territory.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by astra on Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:46 pm

When George was on Dundee Council, he had tha Flag of Saint Andrew taken down and the Lebanese Flag hoisted, on the 30th of NOVEMBER

Can't remember the year, Can't forget the act! Evil or Very Mad
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Triumphant Galloway Hails 'Bradford Spring'

Post by Ivanhoe on Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:00 pm

Hi, Did anybody notice that on the BBC's coverage of George Galloway's success victory, that the BBC made sure George Galloway was surrounded by ethnic minorites ?.

For what's it's worth I'm delighted by George Galloway's election success, because hopefully it will make Labour, think.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:16 pm

They can be devious at the BBC. Surrounding Galloway with ethnic minorities just because they were the ones who voted for him, was an elaborate ploy to demonstrate even-handed coverage by showing Gorgeous George together with the reason why he was elected.

Machiavellian!
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:22 pm

Something was needed to shake the main Political Parties from their yah-boo "debates" in the Palace of Westminster.
Maybe George Galloway is the modern Alexander the Great who opens gates with a sword.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Ivanhoe on Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:22 pm

oftenwrong wrote:They can be devious at the BBC. Surrounding Galloway with ethnic minorities just because they were the ones who voted for him, was an elaborate ploy to demonstrate even-handed coverage by showing Gorgeous George together with the reason why he was elected.

Machiavellian!

How very jolly hockey sticks. It will still make Labour think.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:26 pm

" make Labour think "

Bring back Tony do you mean? He was the last Labour Leader to understand why people elect governments.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

Post by Blamhappy on Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:45 pm

My smart friend believes that the NHS reforms are reversible. He believes that most won't be able to be put into action within the next three years.

I so hope he's right. It's a worry for me.
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Re: Has nothing changed in two years?

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