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Francis Maude, right or wrong?

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Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Scarecrow on Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:34 pm

On Wednesday last week Francis Maude, the Cabinet Office Minister, urged motorists to stock up on fuel at their homes ahead of a proposed strike by tanker drivers.His remarks prompted a wave of panic buying across the country with many petrol stations running out of fuel and thousands of drivers queuing for hours at the pumps.
In some cases retailers were forced to increase their prices leading to accusations that firms were seeking to profiteer from the shortage. Also the unfortunate case of the woman in York decanting petrol in the kitchen :affraid: confused who was badly burned in the process.

Should Maude resign regarding his advice to the public , today petrol stations are still saying they are low or have run out , yet others have enough . Do you go with the Tory email saying that the Unite strike would backfire if enough drivers were stocked up.
The ramification being the government played the UK people for it's own political end game regarding Unite.
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by jackthelad on Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:48 pm

No Maude shouldn't resign, well not on is own anyway, the whole bloody cabinet should resign. Pasties and petrol have just been a smoke screen to draw attention from Cameron, and his lunches with people who want to give a quarter of a million pounds to the tory party, who hope to get something back for it from Cameron.
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by witchfinder on Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:52 pm

What should the government have said, what advice should it have given ?

And the answer is nothing - none

The government should have just kept quite
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by tlttf on Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:30 pm

witchfinder wrote:What should the government have said, what advice should it have given ?

And the answer is nothing - none

The government should have just kept quite
or possibly quiet.

Do you really believe Maude is at fault for the stupidity of the woman who swapped petrol from open container to open container in an enclose area with a naked flame around, what utter b*ll*cks witchy.

If they'd said nothing and a strike happens they're damned, by saying something did they divert a probable strike, we'll never know the reality.

I'm assuming that because this subject has been mentioned in other threads this one will be locked by Ivan???

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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:50 pm

The political career of Francis Maude is at an end, because he was "making it up as he went along". Precisely what the Coalition Government has been doing for the past two years, but he got caught doing it on camera!

Gordon Brown had a similar moment back in his staff car after a difficult moment with a real person.

It goes with the territory. Those who live by the sound-bite, die by the sound-bite.
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Redflag on Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:58 pm

Scarecrow wrote:On Wednesday last week Francis Maude, the Cabinet Office Minister, urged motorists to stock up on fuel at their homes ahead of a proposed strike by tanker drivers.His remarks prompted a wave of panic buying across the country with many petrol stations running out of fuel and thousands of drivers queuing for hours at the pumps.
In some cases retailers were forced to increase their prices leading to accusations that firms were seeking to profiteer from the shortage. Also the unfortunate case of the woman in York decanting petrol in the kitchen :affraid: confused who was badly burned in the process.

Should Maude resign regarding his advice to the public , today petrol stations are still saying they are low or have run out , yet others have enough . Do you go with the Tory email saying that the Unite strike would backfire if enough drivers were stocked up.
The ramification being the government played the UK people for it's own political end game regarding Unite.
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I think the lady concerned should sue the pants off him and I think he was in the WRONG DEFINATLEY.
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by tlttf on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:00 pm

I can't see where your coming from Red. A divvy in the kitchen doing a stupid thing is highly unlikely to get legal aid when there is no chance of her winning.

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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Scarecrow on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:03 pm

:affraid: Thousands of truckers are preparing to go head to head with the army in support of striking tanker drivers - and have warned they will 'bring Britain to a halt'.

They plan to blockade refineries and cause gridlock on motorways to stop soldiers moving fuel around the UK in the event of a strike.

Fuel Lobby leaders who are concerned at rocketing prices have formed an alliance with the tanker drivers, whose union bosses will begin talks this week to try to prevent strike action. :affraid:

If this goes ahead , martial law could be imposed by Cameron ...........no joke.
This proposed Unite strike could well make or break the Coalition if the thing cannot be sorted by mediation talks between the union and the government.

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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Redflag on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:07 pm

Scarecrow wrote: :affraid: Thousands of truckers are preparing to go head to head with the army in support of striking tanker drivers - and have warned they will 'bring Britain to a halt'.

They plan to blockade refineries and cause gridlock on motorways to stop soldiers moving fuel around the UK in the event of a strike.

Fuel Lobby leaders who are concerned at rocketing prices have formed an alliance with the tanker drivers, whose union bosses will begin talks this week to try to prevent strike action. :affraid:

If this goes ahead , martial law could be imposed by Cameron ...........no joke.
This proposed Unite strike could well make or break the Coalition if the thing cannot be sorted by mediation talks between the union and the government.

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Seen that report on the news 24 today SC it good to see people standing by one another the sense of community is not dead Im glad to say.
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by tlttf on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:09 pm

Anybody want to take a bet that we won't have martial law imposed?

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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:12 pm

"martial law could be imposed by Cameron "

Then we can charge purchases of petrol to our bar-bill at the Conservative Club.
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by tlttf on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:13 pm

All the petrol being sold won't half make the economy look good in the short term.

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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Redflag on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:16 pm

tlttf wrote:All the petrol being sold won't half make the economy look good in the short term.

Quite true but the general public all know the reason for that was a political PLOY by the Tories Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by tlttf on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:18 pm

Your point being?

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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Scarecrow on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:24 pm

If truck drivers block motorways and B roads etc to stop army drivers from delivering fuel , in my opinion they are holding the public to ransom YES / NO .
Anyone / group obstructing the army in fuel delivery would first be met by a vast police presence with arrests to follow , if the size of the number of truckers around the country is large in number , this is where martial law would come into it's own. The fact the army would be involved at the outset does not bode well for the truckers as much as i sympathize with there demands.


The definition of the law regarding Martial law : wiki


Martial law is the imposition of military rule by military authorities over designated regions on an emergency basis—(usually) only temporary—when the civilian government or civilian authorities fail to function effectively (e.g., maintain order and security, and provide essential services), when there are extensive riots and protests, or when the disobedience of the law becomes widespread. In most cases, military forces are deployed to quiet the crowds, to secure government buildings and key or sensitive locations, and to maintain order.[1] Generally, military personnel replace civil authorities and perform some or all of their functions. In full-scale martial law, the highest-ranking military officer would take over, or be installed, as the military governor or as head of the government, thus removing all power from the previous executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government.[1]

Martial law can be used by governments to enforce their rule over the public.
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by tlttf on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:25 pm

So you made it up then on a theoretical possibilty?

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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Ivan on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:34 pm

So you made it up then on a theoretical possibilty?.
Or even possibility?

If you want to be such a stickler for good English, please put your own house in order first.
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Scarecrow on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:36 pm

If this goes ahead , martial law could be imposed by Cameron ...........no joke.

If the police cannot handle the truckers situation across the UK regarding blocking army tanker drivers from delivering , the next logical step would be martial law with a small m . The army are in the equation from the start..........go figure .
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by tlttf on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:38 pm

Yep I'll do that Scarecrow, meanwhile do you want the bet or not?

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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:42 pm

The poor woman who injured herself has no justifiable cause to blame Maude. Nor, therefore, have the public at large, but since the Tory Opposition of 1997-2010 leapt upon anything - however tenuous -in a bid to criticise the then government , it is great fun to see them get a large dose of their own oft-used medicine now.

So, Britain, carry on carping...! cheers
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by tlttf on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:45 pm

Totally agree Phil.

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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Ivan on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:47 pm

Do you really believe Maude is at fault for the stupidity of the woman who swapped petrol from open container?
Yes of course he is! The bloody fool has incited people to store petrol at home, which is probably illegal. The idiot is so out of touch that he isn't aware that many people haven't got a garage, so where else are they going to store the fuel? Inside their homes.

The Tories successfully brainwash people into voting for them, with their lies, myths and anecdotes, and with the help of their cronies in the media, even though not more than 1% of the population ever benefit from their tax changes in favour of the rich and their asset-stripping on behalf of corporate greed. Having become brainwashed, these people then do what clowns like Maude tell them to do. He should be sacked, but unlike 710,000 public sector workers, he won't be. He's an Old Etonian, and so he's born to rule over us, however useless he might be.
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Scarecrow on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:49 pm

tlttf wrote:Yep I'll do that Scarecrow, meanwhile do you want the bet or not?

I detect some hostility in your offer , my opinion is not up for betting , we all have an opinion. If I am wrong on my opinion in the coming weeks , I can live with that and will be happy to debate with your good self at the time.
Would be nice to see more than a few sentences as to what you think of the situation with some informed words / opinion. Wink
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by tlttf on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:49 pm

I think your wandering off the post Ivan, are you going to move it?

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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:59 pm

The tiresome administrative detail of how to hoard fuel is surely a matter for one's chauffeur, is it not...? Very Happy
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by witchfinder on Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:51 pm

I think everyone on here knows that I detest this government, and that I am a Labour supporter and voter, but I cannot support the tanker drivers or fuel lobbyists for the following reasons.

The tanker drivers do a dangerous job, which is why they ARE well paid, most tanker drivers earn more than a junior doctor or registrar, and they earn substantialy more than other lorry drivers.

There is no connection between the high price of fuel and the tanker drivers grievances, to attempt to connect the two issues in order to "bring down the government" is reckless, sheer stupdity and will attract very little public support.

The high cost of petrol is almost entirely due to the high cost of oil, it is the same reason that caused a similar protest against the Labour government a few years ago, at that time I supported the then Labour government, if I chose to support the protesters this time, then I would be a hypocrite.

What I would point out is that under Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown, several budget duty increases were postponed or delayed due to the high cost of oil, perhaps Osborne should consider the same, or better still, cancel the duty increase as a way to help the struggling economy.




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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Ivan on Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:58 pm

I do support the tanker drivers. Oil companies and their contractors are cutting corners in a way that could have serious implications for health and safety.

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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by trevorw2539 on Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:51 pm

As I understand it the tanker drivers are striking for the same reason we dislike this government. The Oil Companies used to control the whole oil production and distribution.Then they started selling of the distribution to outside companies. Different companies, different rules and payments has been the result. The unions want a 'standard' for all tanker drivers.

We see the NHS being sold off to private companies. Will a standard be applied, or will the different companies compete for staff. Or will there be instability and constant changing of staff as firms compete. At present we have a stable NHS service. Standard across the board. Excluding services already sold off. What will we have under 'privatisation'. Oops gone off the subject.

This country is going to the dogs. Perhaps they can make a better job of running the country.Shocked

But then, what do I know.
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:55 pm



As my Granny used to say, "You can always get off by paying".

Who's going to pay then, the cut-throat employers, or the entire Nation?
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Stox 16 on Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:53 am

No need to even hold a strike ballot any more or even hold the strike itself. as all you now need to do is phone up the Tory party and they with stop the country for you....how stupid is this banal government? very in my mind
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by witchfinder on Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:15 am

After reading Ivans reply to my post, and after doing some research on the issue, I have altered my stand to an open mind position, though I still believe that attempting to connect the issue of fuel prices with union grievences would be a mistake.

The middle ground of public opinion is what wins general elections, the Labour Party and the Conservatives both have their hard line core supporters, but the middle ground ranges from pale blue to pale red or pink, these are the people who are suspicious of NHS reforms, but are also wary of unions and strikes.

It is the middle ground which needs to be won over, without them there is not a hope in hell of either Labour or the Conservatives winning an election.
The Labour Party must have a broad appeal, it cannot go back to the 1970s unless it wishes to committ suicide, socialism is dead, god save social democracy.

Under this current regime, workers - unions - employees have a lot to fear and worry about, the bogeymen ( the Conservatives ) are out to get you. The Conservatives, ably assisted by the most trechourous bunch of back stabbers ever to appear in British politics want to drive down wages, take away your rights and turn you into slaves for the wealthy shareholders.

But be warned, the middle class, middle of the road person from the Midlands will not have a lot of sympathy for strikers who cause him or her any inconvenience, sorry but thats the way it is.

But
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Phil Hornby on Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:49 am

That middle ground was exactly the territory which Blair grabbed for the Labour Party - and there was no other way of ridding the nation of the dug-in Tories. The fact that our Tony had to do some shifty work en route can be forgiven , if only for the sight of Major being humiliated. Opinion is, of course, divided as it always is but, for me, Blair was a medicine worth taking to cure the Tory disease.

As for any upcoming strike - it will be a big mistake. First ,it is what Cameron dearly wants to justify his rhetoric and, second, it will alienate worthy folk like small builders who may go out of business with no fuel to propel them to their work - and they will quite probably associate Miliband with their plight, rather than Cameron.

This is an evil and cynical government and a careful strategy is required to create the necessary division between it and the mass of the voting public...
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Redflag on Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:20 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:That middle ground was exactly the territory which Blair grabbed for the Labour Party - and there was no other way of ridding the nation of the dug-in Tories. The fact that our Tony had to do some shifty work en route can be forgiven , if only for the sight of Major being humiliated. Opinion is, of course, divided as it always is but, for me, Blair was a medicine worth taking to cure the Tory disease.

As for any upcoming strike - it will be a big mistake. First ,it is what Cameron dearly wants to justify his rhetoric and, second, it will alienate worthy folk like small builders who may go out of business with no fuel to propel them to their work - and they will quite probably associate Miliband with their plight, rather than Cameron.

This is an evil and cynical government and a careful strategy is required to create the necessary division between it and the mass of the voting public...

Sorry to see you have so little faith in all the leaders of the Unions PH, do you not think that they will have worked that out by now why do you think that they are calling for a day of CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE from everybody not just Union members as i have said they are not stupid.
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Ivan on Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:01 pm

witchfinder wrote:-
The Labour Party must have a broad appeal, it cannot go back to the 1970s
I think Labour needs to go back to 1945. Just as it had to reconstruct the country after the damage inflicted by Hitler, so it will need to do the same again after the current crop of corporate fascists are evicted from office.

Labour can start by rebuilding the welfare state and the NHS. It has to offer something which most people recognise as very different from the sleaze, greed and asset-stripping policies of the upper class gangsters in this evil coalition.
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Redflag on Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:07 pm

Ivan wrote:
witchfinder wrote:-
The Labour Party must have a broad appeal, it cannot go back to the 1970s
I think Labour needs to go back to 1945. Just as it had to reconstruct the country after the damage inflicted by Hitler, so it will need to do the same again after the current crop of corporate fascists are evicted from office.

Labour can start by rebuilding the welfare state and the NHS. It has to offer something which most people recognise as very different from the sleaze, greed and asset-stripping policies of the upper class gangsters in this evil coalition.

You have a good idea there Ivan and do you think Ed will try and do that between now and 2015?
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Phil Hornby on Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:12 pm

" Sorry to see you have so little faith in all the leaders of the Unions PH.." (Redflag)

I have as much faith in the ability of Union leaders to choose a suitably subtle path to opposing the goverrnment and errant bosses, as I have in a bevy of unhousetrained chimps on a new white carpet...
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Redflag on Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:18 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:" Sorry to see you have so little faith in all the leaders of the Unions PH.." (Redflag)

I have as much faith in the ability of Union leaders to choose a suitably subtle path to opposing the goverrnment and errant bosses, as I have in a bevy of unhousetrained chimps on a new white carpet...

You seem to forget most of the Union leaders have dealt with previous Tory Gov'ts, and know what there all about and how sneaky they can be look what slipped out in regard to Maudes Thatcher Moment.
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by trevorw2539 on Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:22 pm

by Phil Hornby Today at 4:12 pm



"Sorry to see you have so little faith in all the leaders of the Unions PH.." (Redflag)

I have as much faith in the ability of Union leaders to choose a suitably subtle path to opposing the goverrnment and errant bosses, as I have in a bevy of unhousetrained chimps on a new white carpet...

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say. Could you be a little more explicit please Wink Smile
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Redflag on Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:28 pm

trevorw2539 wrote:by Phil Hornby Today at 4:12 pm



" Sorry to see you have so little faith in all the leaders of the Unions PH.." (Redflag)

I have as much faith in the ability of Union leaders to choose a suitably subtle path to opposing the goverrnment and errant bosses, as I have in a bevy of unhousetrained chimps on a new white carpet...

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say. Could you be a little more explicit please Wink Smile

I hope this clears it up trevor2539 " The Union Leaders are not as Green as there Cabbage Looking"
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

Post by Phil Hornby on Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:32 pm

trevor -

Sorry, I seem to have lapsed into that old habit of mine of understating what I am really seeking to convey... Very Happy
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Re: Francis Maude, right or wrong?

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