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The UK and the European Union - in or out?

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The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by witchfinder on Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:09 pm

First topic message reminder :

EUROSCEPTICS & UKIP CANNOT ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS

In the late 1980s the nations of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) began to seriously contemplate joining the EU, there were many reasons for this, but they included the realisation that it was the only way forward for trade and prosperity, in the case of Sweden it was also the fact that several large companies made it clear they would relocate if Sweden stayed outside the EU.

Current EFTA members: Iceland - Lichtenstein - Norway - Switzerland

EFTA members who joined the EU: - Austria - Denmark - Portugal - Sweden - United Kingdom - Finland

In 1994 the European Economic Area was formed (EEA), this was a compromise organisation for those members of EFTA who did not or could not join the European Union, joining the EEA meant access to EU markets, but the deal also meant accepting EU rules, even though these states were not / are not EU members.

THE QUESTION TO THE EUROSCEPTICS IS THIS: After leaving the EU, would the UK be free of all EU rules, regulations, directives and laws?

And the straighforward answer is: NO  and here is why:-

A meat production company in Lincolnshire is close to signing a multi-million pound deal with a European supermarket chain, just before the two managing directors take out their pens to sign the agreement, the boss of the supermarket chain pulls out a list of conditions.

The list of conditions consist of EU rules, unfortunately Britain has left the EU and unless the British meat producer conforms to EU standards the deal cannot go ahead, the rules cover everything from animal welfare, temperature control, employee rights, labeling, weight, moisture content and hygiene.

So no matter what happens in the future, the UK will always have to accept EU laws

Think of Norway as an example of a European nation outside the European Union, Norway is a member of the European Economic Area ( the EEA ), and as such has to accept into law virtualy every EU rule, regulation, directive and law, furthermore Norway has had to sign up to many of the EU treaties.

Norway has no say and no vote on any of the EU legislation which it accepts, and this is exactly how Britain would end up, inside the EU the UK influences legislation, it does have a say, and it does have a vote, unlike Norway.

A FREE TRADE AGREEMENT "JUST LIKE SWITZERLAND" [ Nigel Farage ]

According to UKIP, the future under them would be simple, all we need to do is leave the EU and sign up to a new free trade agreement, and the future would be bright  Very Happy, but a free trade agreement ?, lets look at that word "agreement", an agreement is not one sided, it is between the parties that make the agreement, and lets face facts here, the EU will call the shots, not Britain.

The European Union is not going to change its rules to cater for a single nation of 60 million, especialy when that nation has left the EU but still wants all the benefits of belonging, namely trade.

I am afraid that under such circumstances, Germany, France, Italy and the rest would say "our way or not at all", the best solution by far is to simply remain within the EU and go forward into the future together.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by Ivan on Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:24 am

A second Brexit referendum? It’s looking more likely by the day

From an article by Vernon Bogdanor:-

Both membership of the single market and a customs agreement would require us to accept much EU legislation without being able to help formulate it – including any legislation the EU chooses to enact in future. We would become, in effect, a satellite of the EU, relying on the Commission or other member states to defend our interests. Such an outcome – regulation without representation – proved unacceptable to Americans in the 18th century. It would probably prove equally unacceptable to the British people in the 21st. There is no logic to a “soft” Brexit – a form of withdrawal that mimics EU membership, but without the influence that comes from membership. The ultimate choice we face is either “hard” Brexit or remain.

Britain will be negotiating, therefore, for a free trade agreement in a “hard” Brexit. If one leaves a tennis club because one does not wish to pay the subscription and does not like the rules yet still wishes to play tennis, one’s leverage is not strong. In addition, a trade agreement would probably have to be ratified unanimously by the European Council, by a majority in the European Parliament, and 27 national and 11 regional parliaments – and we are up against a two-year time limit. There is, apparently, a Japanese saying to the effect that the shorter the time limit, the deeper your wallet needs to be.

Some British politicians suffer from an imperial reflex, however. For them, Britain lies at the centre of the world. We only have to state our aims and other countries will be generous enough to help us achieve them. Last year Brexiteers argued that Britain should leave an EU composed of ill-intentioned foreigners whose interests were in conflict with its own. This year it has been magically transformed into a charitable institution that can be relied on to safeguard our interests.

May called an election to strengthen her negotiating hand, but there is probably no Commons majority for her version of Brexit. Indeed, there is probably a stronger representation of remain MPs in Parliament today than before the election. With a deadlocked Parliament, the possibility of an unfavourable deal and both parties divided on Europe, it may start to appear that the only way out of the impasse is a second referendum in which the government’s deal is put it to the people for legitimation.


For the whole article:-
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/03/second-brexit-referendum-case-getting-stronger-political-deadlock-life-raft

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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by Ivan on Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:55 pm

Former EU official: Conservative Brexit strategy the most harmful government policy for over 50 years

"The decisions taken by the former PM David Cameron, exacerbated by the decisions taken by his successor, are the most harmful decisions that have been taken by a British government for decades" said Sir Michael Leigh, who was a European Commission director-general from 2006 to 2011. "You have to go back to the Suez crisis in 1956 or to Munich in 1938 to find decisions taken by a British government that will turn out in time to have had such negative consequences for the United Kingdom."

He echoed concerns expressed by other former diplomats that May's government is both unprepared and ill-equipped for divorce talks with EU negotiators. One of the big problems hindering progress, Leigh claims, is the difficulty facing the EU in trusting the British government when it is so obviously divided over so many key issues. "Under these conditions, Barnier has got to be concerned that anything Davis says on any given day could be contradicted the next day by another cabinet minister.”


http://uk.businessinsider.com/sir-michael-leigh-may-brexit-munich-1938-2017-8
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by Ivan on Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:00 pm



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHIE6zJVwAAOZUW.jpg
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:40 pm

David Miliband wants a re-run of the referendum. Practically guaranteed. (?)
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When the cat's away ....

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:16 pm

Tory hardliners emerge as cabinet's Brexit war winners



http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tory-hardliners-emerge-as-cabinets-brexit-war-winners/ar-AAq894h?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=mailsignout

The political parties will be holding Annual Conference in October. Suppose TM then commands, "Back me or sack me!" Will any Tory challenger risk picking up the option and thus precipitating ANOTHER general election? Mr. Corbyn's supporters must fervently hope so - it would be 1997 all over again.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by boatlady Yesterday at 1:59 pm

I long for another General Election - it won't solve the problems we now have - but it might be the beginning of preventing things getting worse
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

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