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The UK and the European Union - in or out?

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The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by witchfinder on Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:09 pm

First topic message reminder :

EUROSCEPTICS & UKIP CANNOT ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS

In the late 1980s the nations of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) began to seriously contemplate joining the EU, there were many reasons for this, but they included the realisation that it was the only way forward for trade and prosperity, in the case of Sweden it was also the fact that several large companies made it clear they would relocate if Sweden stayed outside the EU.

Current EFTA members: Iceland - Lichtenstein - Norway - Switzerland

EFTA members who joined the EU: - Austria - Denmark - Portugal - Sweden - United Kingdom - Finland

In 1994 the European Economic Area was formed (EEA), this was a compromise organisation for those members of EFTA who did not or could not join the European Union, joining the EEA meant access to EU markets, but the deal also meant accepting EU rules, even though these states were not / are not EU members.

THE QUESTION TO THE EUROSCEPTICS IS THIS: After leaving the EU, would the UK be free of all EU rules, regulations, directives and laws?

And the straighforward answer is: NO  and here is why:-

A meat production company in Lincolnshire is close to signing a multi-million pound deal with a European supermarket chain, just before the two managing directors take out their pens to sign the agreement, the boss of the supermarket chain pulls out a list of conditions.

The list of conditions consist of EU rules, unfortunately Britain has left the EU and unless the British meat producer conforms to EU standards the deal cannot go ahead, the rules cover everything from animal welfare, temperature control, employee rights, labeling, weight, moisture content and hygiene.

So no matter what happens in the future, the UK will always have to accept EU laws

Think of Norway as an example of a European nation outside the European Union, Norway is a member of the European Economic Area ( the EEA ), and as such has to accept into law virtualy every EU rule, regulation, directive and law, furthermore Norway has had to sign up to many of the EU treaties.

Norway has no say and no vote on any of the EU legislation which it accepts, and this is exactly how Britain would end up, inside the EU the UK influences legislation, it does have a say, and it does have a vote, unlike Norway.

A FREE TRADE AGREEMENT "JUST LIKE SWITZERLAND" [ Nigel Farage ]

According to UKIP, the future under them would be simple, all we need to do is leave the EU and sign up to a new free trade agreement, and the future would be bright  Very Happy, but a free trade agreement ?, lets look at that word "agreement", an agreement is not one sided, it is between the parties that make the agreement, and lets face facts here, the EU will call the shots, not Britain.

The European Union is not going to change its rules to cater for a single nation of 60 million, especialy when that nation has left the EU but still wants all the benefits of belonging, namely trade.

I am afraid that under such circumstances, Germany, France, Italy and the rest would say "our way or not at all", the best solution by far is to simply remain within the EU and go forward into the future together.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:57 pm

Got anything more recent than May last year?

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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by witchfinder on Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:57 pm

What will happen now, and what does it all mean for Britains future ?

As a Europhile, I accept that the majority of people in the UK are Eurosceptics, therefore I am utterly convinced that David Cameron has not done himself any harm by putting two fingers up at the rest of Europe, indeed I believe he has probably done himself and his party some good - for now.

If Cameron continued to take a hard line against Europe, he could take a gamble and upset the Liberal Democrats, end the coalition and go to the polls in May, two years after the coalition took office, and by keeping up his British Bulldog attitude to the rest of Europe, he would have a chance of winning.

On the other hand, large sections of his own party could take things into their own hands, seize the opportunity and David Cameron would either have to be swept along with the tide - or swept away, in this scenario the coalition would clearly fall apart.

IN THE END - BRITAIN LOSES OUT

The main stumbling block was "The City of London", our PM wanted safeguards for Britains financial sector, this was obviously too much to ask, the result is that Cameron put the spanner in the works, self interest has taken precedence over mutual interest.

Think about it - the people, the organisations, the institutions who caused much of the world wide problems we now see, have a champion in David Cameron, he wishes to protect the great financial institutions who took risks with other peoples money and plunged us into the worst crisis since the 1930s.

The great British Primeminister is AGAINST closer scrutiny and better regulation of banks by the European Union

The great David Cameron does not want a banking transaction tax accross the continent because it may upset his friends The Bankers.

And in the future, decisions will be made by the allmighty and powerfull European Union that will effect the UK, decisions will be arrived at which will impact on the lives of every Briton - but thanks to Mr Cameron, we wont be part of the decision making, we wont have a say, Britain will not have a vote.

The future is Britain as the outsider looking in

Another perfectly reasonable and rationable scenario is that the rest of Europe could very easily, by one means or another, put the UK on the outside of the free market, its a distinct possibility, and if this does happen then we will watch the UK economy sink, because it will.

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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:12 pm

Doomed, we're all Doomed!

There are fifty (50) states and Washington D.C.

The last two states to join the Union were Alaska (49th) and Hawaii (50th). Both joined in 1959.

Washington D.C. is a federal district under the authority of Congress. Local government is run by a mayor and 13 member city council. Washington DC is represented in Congress by an elected, nonvoting Delegate to the House of Representatives and residents have been able to vote in Presidential elections since 1961.

Puerto Rico is a commonwealth associated with the U.S. Its indigenous inhabitants are U.S. citizens. Puerto Ricans are unable to vote in U.S. Presidential elections but they do elect a nonvoting resident commissioner to the U.S. House of Representatives.

Dependent areas: American Samoa, Baker Island, Guam, Howland Island, Jarvis Island, Johnston Atoll, Kingman Reef, Midway Islands, Navassa Island, Northern Mariana Islands, Palmyra Atoll, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Wake Island.


There must be room for the UK in there somewhere.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by witchfinder on Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:52 pm

The economic giants of the world in the near future will be China, India, the United States and Brazil.

If the Euro sceptics of Britain got their way, then where would Britain stand in the world of tomorrow, just how important do people like Nigel Farage or David Hannan believe Britain will be in 2050. ?

By 2050 the United States will be dwarfed by a China which will have a GDP estimated to be almost double that of the US, if the EU works together as a single economic power then we will have a significant, important voice.

A Europe of individual nations with individual currencies and with no co-operation will be a bunch of insignificant states, all with little influence.

Its time to forget the British Empire, the Second World War and sending in the gun boats that we no longer have, stop living in the past, its time for something new and different.

Be brave, go for it
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by Ivan on Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:30 am

"When one member of a club uses his veto, he blocks something from happening. Mr Cameron did not stop France, Germany and the other fifteen members of the eurozone from going ahead with what they are proposing. He asked for safeguards for financial services and - as had been well trailed in advance - France and Germany said 'no'. That's not wielding a veto, that's called losing."

http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2011/12/britain-and-eu-0
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by astra on Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:44 am

The EU could not work without all the British Industry that Thatch and PARTICULARLY Major GAVE them. EVEN with all this plunder they STILL cannot make a go of it. The thought of the EU "getting together" is a non starter that is destined to rumble along the seabed, hardly seeing the sun!
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:48 am

Sensible people will now prepare for Britain's departure from the European Union.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by bobby on Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:05 am

Herr Cameron stated that he used his veto (with a small v) to protect the City and our Banking, which is and has been the fiancial hub of the world. If we leave or are booted out of the EU, how many European countries will see us as a leading Nation for banking, the Eu will certainly move the European bank to Paris, and drip by drip so will eveyone else take their banking matters elswhere. The headlines are saying, Britain this and Britain that, it is not Britain, but some jumped up public schoolboy irk, who thinks his Flashman style bully boy tactics will work against other National leaders.
For some reason some people still think Britania rules the waves, and try to instill the spirit of Churchill, as worthy a Leader Churchill may have been in War time, may I remind you that the war he led Britain through ended some 66 years ago, and the Great went out of Britain shortly after, we are now just a small Country on the edge of Europe who can not survive by our selves, we need as does every other Nation to join in treaties, alliances "call them what you will" but we need Europe more than Europe need us.
Our fragility has been seen, If the Banks go squit, we have very little if any industry to fall back on, and now Herr Cameron is busying himself by putting even that at risk. Thankfully now we are beginning to see some of the Lib-Dem rats speaking against Herr Cameron and his tactics, but I fear it may be too little too late.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:19 pm

So far, the Liberal component of the Tory-led Coalition has been able to claim that their presence has restrained some of the worst propensities of The Nasty Party.

No longer. The Eurosceptics are baying for blood - and a prompt Referendum.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by Ivan on Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:09 pm

Extracts from an article by Ed Miliband, writing for ‘The Guardian’ on 9 December:-

"For the last generation, Britain has been determined to stay at the top table in Europe. Today, David Cameron, after months of posturing and disengagement, took the catastrophic decision to walk away. The significance is that we have chosen to let 26 countries make crucial decisions without us. The PM's apparent warning at the meeting that they "couldn't use this building for their meetings" would be laughable if it was not tragic.

Cameron went into this summit saying his first priority was to protect Britain's financial services industry. 48 hours later it is clear he achieved not one such protection. Instead, he has delivered the reality that 26 EU countries will now meet to discuss financial services without our country being represented in the room…..it is British business that will lose when Britain is not involved in decisions about their largest export market.

The real reasons for this debacle are about internal Tory politics. Even before he entered Downing Street, Cameron pulled Conservative MEPs out of the centre-right grouping in the European Parliament. It sent a clear signal he did not want to engage with anyone except mavericks from the extreme margins of European politics. In office, it has got still worse. In March he told Angela Merkel he did not even want to be in the room when issues to do with the euro were being discussed. Europe got the message. When the leaders of centre-right parties in Spain, Germany and France met in Marseilles, Cameron was not invited. The truth is that Cameron never wanted a deal at this summit because he knew he was too weak to sell it to his Eurosceptic MPs back home."


For the full article:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/09/cameron-let-britain-down-europe


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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by sickchip on Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:20 pm

This step away from europe might also have other motives.....such as the tories desire to corrode workers rights even further in the UK. Maybe, if they can break free entirely from europe, they might eventually be able to force millions to work for benefits without fear of contravening some EU rule.......and removing UK citizens resort to appeal to the 'european court of human rights'.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by tlttf on Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:05 am

Such a shame sicky, after posting some interesting articles, you then resort to pointless finger wagging. What is it, are you working on the theory that eventually one of views will prove to be right.

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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:17 am

Europe, and therefore by extension Britain, is in uncharted waters. Maybe concerted action by the Eurozone will ensure continuance of the single European currency, but on this date 11.12.2011 each member of the EU continues to behave as a single Country, which is the obvious fall-back position if they don't universally agree on fiscal domination by Brussels before next March.

The unfolding story will be recorded in the share value of Bank Stocks. It is still Bank performance that concerns the Market, not government spending.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by witchfinder on Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:39 am

sickchip - does have a very relevant point, it is a fact that many within the Tory party are desperate to roll back the many workers rights and individual human rights which Europe has given to ordinary people.

It realy is about time that Euro sceptics woke up and stopped sleep walking backwards to a time where employers used workers as a mere commodity like sugar, paint or building materials, to be used or discarded without fear or redemption.

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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by Ivan on Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:08 pm

The European Court of Human Rights is not an EU institution but emanates from the Council of Europe. However, I'm sure sickchip is quite correct about the intention of right-wing Tories to destroy the workers' rights that are enshrined in the Social Chapter of the EU. I don't think they're "sleepwalking" at all, I'm sure they're fully conscious of what they're doing. After all the Tories are the party of bankers and big business, the 1%.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:10 pm

tlttf wrote:Such a shame sicky, after posting some interesting articles, you then resort to pointless finger wagging. What is it, are you working on the theory that eventually one of views will prove to be right.

Being 'proved right eventually' is not something which is liable to trouble landy anytime this century, eh folks...?
Very Happy
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by sickchip on Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:48 pm

tlttf wrote:Such a shame sicky, after posting some interesting articles, you then resort to pointless finger wagging. What is it, are you working on the theory that eventually one of views will prove to be right.

I guess so! Silly me for suggesting tories would ever wish to dilute workers rights - I ought to have realised that looking back at Thatch et al ...since they obviously done nothing but champion the rights of the working person. Ho hum!
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:14 pm

A letter in today's Sunday Times deplores the restricted opening hours of DIY warehouses on Sunday. The complainant explains that he needs to buy materials for his rental properties.

See? There's always somebody worse off than ourselves.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by Charlatan on Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:57 pm

The euro falling may cause some problems, but seriously, with it being used to buy or sell in twenty seven countries means that it is being used in a big way on any of the european countries exporting things. The problem is that europe doesn;t export much other than finnished goods, so might be on the decline. Things like the pound only stay up because they were so high to begin with and people see it going back up. What does england export? Who uses pounds?

I think if the currencies were really what they should be the third world would have a much bigger share of the monetary worth coming to them, meaning that finnished goods will go down in cost. I mean most of the foods are imported from the third world, so they would be buying their currency more often.

The euro is a terrible idea, not because it is overvalued alone, it is also underused. Think of all the rich people of the world staying in one town - will there be anything coming out of that town? Maybe that is why the world is in such terrible shape, as people see the euro going back up in value, of course, but in reality it should be worth less than a dollar or whatever third world currency you are using!
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by keenobserver1 on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:53 pm

Only time will tell wether Cameron is right or wrong to use the power of veto....

Perhaps this will be the final footnote in the Decline and Fall of The British Empire...........prior to our demise to being rated beneath third world status?

Perhaps this will be the moment when taking a step back and watching cautiously as the other 26 bind themselves tightly together as they leap foolhardy in to the abyss proves to be a wise move....

Only time will tell..............
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:35 pm

We might start by being nicer to Iceland.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by keenobserver1 on Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:46 pm

Not that keen on frozen food........
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by atv on Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:54 pm

Ed Miliband and other Labour speakers have lined up to denounce Cameron for not securing allies at the summit. What allies would Labour have sought and for what purpose? What would Labour have offered to those potential allies – and what would Labour have treated as non-negotiable? All this is a mystery to voters and so long as it remains so, Labour is too easily caricatured as a party which will sign up to any EU agreement, regardless of merit or national interest, to avoid isolation.
Politics.co.uk

Ed Miliband has shown himself to be on totally the wrong side of every argument — the public sector strikes, the economy and now Europe.
His problem is, he is nailed to the floor by union paymasters who are utterly wedded to Europe as the source of industrial power.
Even when he had Cameron on the ropes, instead of continuing his attack, his well written script ended and he fell back on soundbites, showing millions who watch PMQT what a complete waste of time he is as leader of the Labour party.
In one way I feel sorry for true Labour supporters, but personnally am glad comrade Ed is leader of the Labour party and hope he remains so at the next general election.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:14 pm

Still nothing to say about the Tory Party though, atv?

Don't you like the Government we have?
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by atv on Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:54 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Still nothing to say about the Tory Party though, atv?

Don't you like the Government we have?

This government will live or die by what happens in the next three and a half years, the game hasn't really started yet and voter apathy still rules. IMO the Torys have played it very cannily from an electioneering point of view - getting all their crap out the way at the start of the term.
The economic crisis just looks to get DEEPER and DEEPER. It does seem we have escaped some of the disasters that have been happening across Europe economically, and that COULD BE due to the government preventing a terrible situation from being disastrous one. But it's probably too early to tell. Let's see where we are in 2015. The timing could be perfect, in that we could be past the darkest days by then.
I'm pretty much certain that the Torys will be voted back for a second term with a majority. I know things could change a lot in that time, but it feels like Labour have a lot to do to win favour.

It's interesting that the news gets worse and worse but the Torys haven't suffered *too* much in the polls yet, in fact the Conservatives are ahead in the opinion polls now:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/1...7BD00P20111214
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by Phil Hornby on Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:35 pm

Folk should have little difficulty finding time to attend the polling stations in 2015 since, by then, most should have plenty of leisure by virtue of being unemployed.

The Tory Election theme can then justifiably be :
'Mission Accomplished'... Shocked


Last edited by Phil Hornby on Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:46 pm

"A cowed and compliant Workforce is a Joy to behold."

(Credit the origin of this quotation to any Tory of your choice)
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by atv on Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:48 pm

Mr Sarkozy claimed he outmanoeuvred the Prime Minister at the summit “No country supported him". "That is the mark of a political defeat". "It was a good coup". "I manoeuvred well”.

Now it has been said "A week is a long time in politics",

Just days after the latest summit, the wheels are falling off. SkyNews are reporting the following "Czech prime minister says he and Hungarian PM unlikely to sign EU treaty changes unless 'tax harmonisation' plans are dropped". They say Sweden and Denmark will also express concerns.
We come out with a straight 'We're not signing that' and get all the flak. They sit about, looking at the floor, whistling awkwardly, everyone said they would sign, waited for us to take all the bad media attention then when it calmed down, they slowly 'change their mind'.
Didn't these so-called leaders realise that had there been a few other dissenting voices, then the Germans and French may have been a bit more willing to talk.

So in less than a week we're not so 'isolated' after all. Cameron playing a 'blinder'. Made complete fools of Clegg and Miliband. Talk of France being downgraded, and I bet Merkel would rather have Cameron at the table so she doesn't have to deal with Sarkozy alone.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by Phil Hornby on Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:47 pm

Yes - it can't be long until Cameron is boldly leading 24 other defiant nations as the fanfares ring out and the French and Germans are falling at his feet pleading with him to give them the benefit of his insight and wisdom . This will be accompanied by the sound of fairies dancing at the bottom of my garden... Evil or Very Mad
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:13 pm

Or to put it another way, all Politicians are a waste of space.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by bobby on Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:02 pm

ATV wrote.
"This government will live or die by what happens in the next three and a half years, the game hasn't really started yet"

And we already have 2.64 million unemployed, with as you say three and a half years to improve on that figure, tell me how many unemployed must we have to start the game as you so disgustingly put it., Tell the unemployed, the sick, the pensioners and the homeless, its just a game.

"14 Dec 2011:
Labour leader accuses PM of betraying a generation of young people as figures show the jobless total has hit 2.64 million"

atv wrote
"IMO the Torys have played it very cannily from an electioneering point of view - getting all their crap out the way at the start of the term."

If you call lieing through their back teeth as being just canny, I really cant understand your reasoning or lack of reasoning. Cameron may I remind you, made all sorts of prommises, like no top down re structuring of the health service, I wont go into them all as I would be insulting your inteligence. You know the lies as well as the rest of us.Yet you Tories will continue giving your support to these lieing, cheating thieving scumbags.
What is the point of what they are trying to do, when the cure is far worse for millions than is the desease. just how many are you personally happy to see put on the scrap heap, or is it just a case of I'm all right Jack, how much more unemployement and homelessness will we see, before you Tories admit that Cameron and Gideon have made a massive great phuk up, whilst sticking to their idealogical plans. Its funny isn't it, in the recent past we have had 4 resessions, one bought about by the orriginal Global crunch, which was very quickly put down by Gordon Brown and Alistair Darlings quick action, the other three all Tory, now Cameron can join the same club as Thatcher and Major, who both created resessions and tried to fix the problem (so they said) with Austerity measures aimed at those least able to deal with them and nothing to do with creating growth. On the lead up to Christmas the high streets are suffering, and unemployement instead of reducing with the usual seasonal work is worstening. If its like that prior to Christmas, just what do you think its going to be like after, when more people are laid off, but like all Tories I guess you recon it a price worth paying, so long as it doesnt effect you too much.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:23 pm

The problem seems to be that Europe has entrusted its future to the same weary old bunch of Political no-hopers, who are successors to two world wars.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:41 pm

Nice to see the Frogs spitting blood at the prospect of receiving a lowered credit-rating compared with that enjoyed by the UK.

Maybe they'll open more shops.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by Dannylot on Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:55 pm

astra wrote:The EU could not work without all the British Industry that Thatch and PARTICULARLY Major GAVE them.
 
What industry?
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by astra on Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:08 pm

What industry



WHERE TO START?

Directives from Europe to Sir Monte Finniston to lower preduction and prices of British Steel - THEY had us produce less steel and charge MORE for what we were selling, as the French Germans and Italians could NOT keep up with us!

Coal, Now shipped in to TYNE DOCK from Poland Talk about taking coals to Newcastle!

Shipbuilding on the Tyne and on the river Wear all bolloxed up by Europe - OH no laws were broken, they are much too canny for that!! but contracts changed half way through the building slowing delivery and imposing delay fines
Rail rolling stock contracts signed then dishonoured so Rolling Stock manufacture ended in York
Now we have the British Military Uniforms being won by a German Company who have instantly outsourced this work to Turkey - not even in the EU yet!! (Heaven Help Us)
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by bobby on Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:57 pm

I hope they get the Sergeants stripes the right way up.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by sickchip on Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:44 am

Phil Hornby wrote:
oftenwrong wrote:My grandfather understood perfectly. "Wogs begin at Calais".

I think this board could well do without the use of words like 'Calais'...

...and London
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by sickchip on Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:51 am

...at least continental europeans have style, culture, and sophistication.........whereas shell-suited yob mentality pervades every aspect of british life. Put it down to a shit education system and a society that has no morals, respect, integrity, or dignity.
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by Stox 16 on Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:11 am

you only need to go out in a Town on a Saturday night to see our youth at there very best NOT
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by bobby on Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:58 am

sickchip wrote
" no morals, respect, integrity, or dignity."

You often hear of respect, only its a different sort of respect than we are used to. What we now hear is " Him show me no respec, so I stab him innit"
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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

Post by witchfinder on Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:29 pm

Ship-building, steel and coal has not been bolloxed up by Europe

In the 1950s and 1960s the UK built ships for Singapore, Malaysia, Nigeria and a whole host of other places, and today these countries now build their own ships, as third world nations become emerging nations, and as emerging nations become developed nations, their reliance on places like the UK, France, the United States or Germany is greatly diminished.

In 1950 Toyota built less than 12,000 cars - by 1968 it was over 1 million

In 1950 no one would have believed that by 2000 South Korea would be building ships for the Australian and New Zealand navies, and defence equipment for the middle east.

The dominance of the United States and the western powers on building everything from power station turbines, ships, cars, defence equipment, engineering harware and oil refineries no longer exists, the market place is much tougher with more competition.

The ending of ship building on the Tyne, the Clyde and in Sunderland was predictable, its fate was sealed when nations of the empire began gaining their independence after the Second World War.



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Re: The UK and the European Union - in or out?

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