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Can God love? (Part 1)

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Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Greatest I am on Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:40 pm

First topic message reminder :

Can God love?

We are told that the mythical bible God is love or the epitome of love.

Archetypal Jesus said that we would know his people by the love, deeds and actions they showed others.

Jesus gave us examples of the deeds and works. Feed the poor, love all our neighbours, do not sin and many others.

Love then, seems to Jesus, to be something that must be shown by deeds, actions and works to be alive and true love. Love, like faith, without works is dead. Both St. James and Jesus agree on this.

It follows then that if God is not doing something to show this love then the love for man expressed in scriptures is wrong and God cannot love.

You are in the image of God. When you love someone you show them that love by works and deeds. This is how the recipient of that love knows it is there and that allows for reciprocity.  You will agree that without reciprocity, true love cannot exist between two individuals. We must do things for each other for true love to exist.

Imagine what those you love would think if you never did anything to express your love. Imagine what you would think of the love of others towards you if they never did anything to show they loved you.  See what I mean. Love always must have deeds to be real and true and reciprocity must be at play.

Love then has no choice but to be expressed if it is true love.

We are told that God loved his son so much that he planned to have him sacrificed even before the earth was created. This human sacrifice or any other human sacrifice, voluntary or not, is immoral and the notion that it is good to sacrifice an innocent victim to give the guilty believers a free ride into heaven is a completely self-gratifying notion and is completely immoral. One does not show love for someone by having them sacrificed for the sins of others when God himself stated that we are all responsible for our own salvation and cannot put that responsibility of the shoulders of a scapegoat Jesus.

Does love need deeds and works to be expressed?

Have you seen God express his love for us lately?

Regards
DL

These following speak to this issue if you wish to view them.

[youtube]



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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Tosh on Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:09 pm

I wonder when the evolutionists will realise that if there was conclusive evidence of evolution there would be no debate, just as there is every proof of creation if one looks around and considers the alternatives and this should end the debate, however, lets get on with it and see how much dafter the evolutionists can get..

You are a wind up troll, neither science nor I care about your unqualified opinion, there is no debate about evolution except in the minds of unqualified people, 99.9% of qualified scientists accept evolution and reject creationism.

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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by snowyflake on Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:57 pm

I wonder when the evolutionists will realise that if there was conclusive evidence of evolution there would be no debate, just as there is every proof of creation if one looks around and considers the alternatives and this should end the debate, however, lets get on with it and see how much dafter the evolutionists can get..

There is conclusive evidence, polyglide. That you don't understand it doesn't mean it's not a fact. What level education do you have? What did you do for a job? Are you a scientist or technologist? Do you have any science background at all? When you don't know the facts of a subject, like evolution, how can you dismiss it? What do you know about cosmology, geology, anthropology? Do you understand the scientific method? Do you even know what it means?

Polyglide, if you have no knowledge in science, you cannot possibly make an informed decision about evolution one way or the other. You can have your belief but it's only your opinion and that's all. An academic debate is beyond you. You can't even present a single web page or scientist that discounts evolution.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:46 pm

We just HAVE to believe in evolution, otherwise the only possible alternative is that God's creatures like snowyflake and Tosh represent the peak of His design.

eeeuuww!
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Tosh on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:09 pm

We just HAVE to believe in evolution, otherwise the only possible alternative is that God's creatures like snowyflake and Tosh represent the peak of His design.


We have to believe in evolution because there is incontrovertible evidence to support it, however you may be evidence that disproves survival of the fittest.

:affraid:
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:33 pm

Don't stop running, Tosh. You'll be missed.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Tosh on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:41 pm

Don't stop running, Tosh. You'll be missed..

Dream on Walter, I cannot miss your back, its the one with the white stripe running down it. Basketball
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by snowyflake on Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:33 am

We just HAVE to believe in evolution, otherwise the only possible alternative is that God's creatures like snowyflake and Tosh represent the peak of His design.

You don't have to believe anything, OW. You just have to look at the evidence but because you and polyglide and others don't fully understand it, you dismiss it in favour of a magic invisible superhero. That's just lazy. Just because there are unanswered questions doesn't automatically assume a supreme being. God is completely unnecessary. Whatever problems there are it will be scientists who find the answers not the religious nutters praying and dooming the world and fighting with each other about who's got the bigger God.


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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by astra on Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:53 am

The McMillan nurses were visiting me in hospital - just a check to see how I was doing.

One said, "God must be looking down on you", and when I replied "I'll refer your words to her when I sit on her knee" a real commotion broke out! Very Happy


Best entertainment in 3 weeks on my back!
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by polyglide on Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:24 am

There is no proof at all regarding evolution, it is as I have said previously and on solid grounds, the only answer is that everything was created instantly.

You confuse the evolution of that which was created, with evolution itself, of course things can evolve and man has caused many such events but that does not mean that evolution is the answer to creation.

There is neither sense nor reason to think that all the interdependancies and relative means of reproduction could come about by chance.

The old crab appl;e regarding natural selection is even dafter when one considers what would have to be involed.

Anyone finding an old bracelet from ages gone would think you mad if you said it came about by chance and yet some think all living things did.




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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Tosh on Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:01 pm

Ignore.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:48 pm

Tosh Today at 12:01 pm

Ignore Tosh
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Tosh on Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:30 pm

Ignore Tosh.

Edit:

oftenwrong: Ignore thread content.

For someone who is fixated on religious threads you are more than a little coy on revealing your religious beliefs, and I know the reason why, lolol.

Where is your faith my friend ?
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by snowyflake on Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:54 pm

For the creationist delusionist:

http://www.evolutionfaq.com/articles/five-proofs-evolution

1. The universal genetic code. All cells on Earth, from our white blood cells, to simple bacteria, to cells in the leaves of trees, are capable of reading any piece of DNA from any life form on Earth. This is very strong evidence for a common ancestor from which all life descended.

2. The fossil record. The fossil record shows that the simplest fossils will be found in the oldest rocks, and it can also show a smooth and gradual transition from one form of life to another.

Please watch this video for an excellent demonstration of fossils transitioning from simple life to complex vertebrates.

3. Genetic commonalities. Human beings have approximately 96% of genes in common with chimpanzees, about 90% of genes in common with cats (source), 80% with cows (source), 75% with mice (source), and so on. This does not prove that we evolved from chimpanzees or cats, though, only that we shared a common ancestor in the past. And the amount of difference between our genomes corresponds to how long ago our genetic lines diverged.

4. Common traits in embryos. Humans, dogs, snakes, fish, monkeys, eels (and many more life forms) are all considered "chordates" because we belong to the phylum Chordata. One of the features of this phylum is that, as embryos, all these life forms have gill slits, tails, and specific anatomical structures involving the spine. For humans (and other non-fish) the gill slits reform into the bones of the ear and jaw at a later stage in development. But, initially, all chordate embryos strongly resemble each other.

In fact, pig embryos are often dissected in biology classes because of how similar they look to human embryos. These common characteristics could only be possible if all members of the phylum Chordata descended from a common ancestor.

5. Bacterial resistance to antibiotics. Bacteria colonies can only build up a resistance to antibiotics through evolution. It is important to note that in every colony of bacteria, there are a tiny few individuals which are naturally resistant to certain antibiotics. This is because of the random nature of mutations.

When an antibiotic is applied, the initial innoculation will kill most bacteria, leaving behind only those few cells which happen to have the mutations necessary to resist the antibiotics. In subsequent generations, the resistant bacteria reproduce, forming a new colony where every member is resistant to the antibiotic. This is natural selection in action. The antibiotic is "selecting" for organisms which are resistant, and killing any that are not.

These are 5 examples of evolution and why evolution is true. There are tens of thousands of other examples. When you don't understand something you have no basis in calling it false whether you have a religious belief or not. Denying scientific facts because you are ignorant of those facts is just plain idiocy. Get some knowledge on the subject first and then come back with solid evidence for creation or why evolution is impossible. Just saying it isn't doesn't cut the ice.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Tosh on Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:14 pm

Spell,

Go back to page 1, polyglide states the exact same tripe, you are wasting your breath.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by snowyflake on Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:50 pm

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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by polyglide on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:45 am

I am afraid you are wrong regarding life forms and the time periods.

We have animals far larger than anything presently on earth found millions of years ago and if your presumptions were correct then the animals would have just got larger and larger to see off the smaller ones etc;

As I have pointed out in a previous post, there has been several wipe outs of life forms on earth and none actually follow each other after such events so the only obvious answer is instant creation.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by snowyflake on Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:37 pm

I am afraid you are wrong regarding life forms and the time periods.

Examples please.

We have animals far larger than anything presently on earth found millions of years ago and if your presumptions were correct then the animals would have just got larger and larger to see off the smaller ones etc;

Your ignorance screams louder than anything, polyglide. I make no presumptions. I look at evidence and base conclusions on that evidence. Scientists more skilled and knowledgable than I am in the subject present information with evidence. Species evolve in response to environment. Genes turn on and off in response to environmental stimuli. Species adapt to available food sources, habitat changes, weather conditions, an increase or decrease in numbers or predators or prey. The idea that evolution means that animals get bigger shows your utter lack of knowledge on the topic.

Mass extinctions does not mean that all life expired. And although we have evidence for mass extinctions it does not equate to magical wand waving superheroes 'creating' life in an instant. That, you do not have evidence for. You are presuming it.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:46 pm

Why would anyone called Isaak Yudovich Ozimov change their name?

http://www.asimovonline.com/asimov_FAQ.html
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by polyglide on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:11 am

You talk a load of rubbish.

There would not be the time for anything to evolve to take acount of the speed of changes and they would have to have prior knowledge and the ability to adapt that knowledge which involves intelligence far beyond our own.

Mankind is the most intelligent being on earth, we are in for a problem regarding the changing weather, we know this as a fact, now tell me how through evolution we can change our bodies to cope etc;
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:53 pm

polyglide wrote:
.... Mankind is the most intelligent being on earth....,

But can't even keep ourselves warm without destroying swathes of the World's forests.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by snowyflake on Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:53 pm

You talk a load of rubbish.

LOL!!! You make me smile with your ignorance and your indignance. All of my statements are scientifically substantiated where yours are not.

There would not be the time for anything to evolve to take acount of the speed of changes and they would have to have prior knowledge and the ability to adapt that knowledge which involves intelligence far beyond our own.

We can see evolution happening during our lifetime. Bacteria evolves to become resistant to antibiotics. This can be seen within one or two generations of bacterial growth. Finches on the Galapagos islands separated by water evolved into different species according to their island habitat and availability of food sources. Evolution is about adaptation and has nothing to do with 'prior knowledge' or 'intelligence'. DNA evolved to survive and all of the species on the planet are vehicles for DNA. So whatever species, wherever it is, whatever food sources are available, whatever environment it lives in will adapt to survive and pass on its DNA to the next generation. Those that don't survive don't pass on their DNA. Survival of the fittest.


Mankind is the most intelligent being on earth, we are in for a problem regarding the changing weather, we know this as a fact, now tell me how through evolution we can change our bodies to cope etc;

We are the most adaptable because we have big brains and can problem solve. So I suspect that if there was a mass extinction that wiped out most of the population the remaining survivors would learn how to keep going by going back to basics. You can bet your boots that God wouldn't be helping them out. They would have to learn how to keep warm, find or grow food and build shelters. And the strong, healthy, smart ones would be passing on their genes to offspring.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by polyglide on Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:55 am

Yes, yes, we know evolution takes place, but it is how that which evolves was created that is the problem with the sad evolutionists.

Anything that evolves must have been created.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by snowyflake on Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:07 pm

Anything that evolves must have been created.

No. Anything that evolves must have had a beginning. What that beginning was, we don't know with any certainty. What we do know is that it wasn't likely to be magic.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:39 pm

snowyflake wrote:
Anything that evolves must have had a beginning. What that beginning was, we don't know with any certainty. What we do know is that it wasn't likely to be magic.

What we know is that we don’t know. Most people are not likely to play professional basketball. A first cousin of a first cousin that I knew back when we were both riding tricycles had a nice career in the NBA. That which is not likely is not impossible. Genesis 1:2 and following does not address how it happened.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by snowyflake on Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:59 pm

Since I didn't reference Genesis 1:2, nor do I consider it a valid argument in any debate, I shall ignore that.

If you want to believe in magic, please, be my guest but I think the answer just hasn't been discovered yet. What I am certain about is that the answer is not in Genesis or any other part of the bible. The answer will lie in Science.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:31 pm


snowyflake wrote:
Since I didn't reference Genesis 1:2…

I know you didn’t. I did.

snowyflake wrote:
… nor do I consider it a valid argument in any debate…

I know you don’t. I also know that I don’t debate Genesis 1:2 and following; I exposit it, I discuss it, and I engage in discourse upon it. I referenced Genesis 1:2 and following in a brief expository fashion; as I said in the sole sentence in which I referenced it, “Genesis 1:2 and following does not address how it happened”, it does not address how life began.

snowyflake wrote:
… I shall ignore that.

As long as you know and understand that Genesis 1:2 and following does not address how life began, my objective has been accomplished.

snowyflake wrote:
If you want to believe in magic…

I neither believe in nor wish to believe in magic. I was taught conjuring by AGVA magicians. I have watched a master conjurer make cards disappear and appear. Even though I know how it’s done and once practiced the skills, I couldn’t “see” how he did it. If you want someone to debunk magic, a magician is your man. Peter Popoff was debunked on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson by Randy the Great, a professional magician. Harry Houdini’s wife died without awarding the prize to the first person that could communicate with her dead husband.

snowyflake wrote:

… I think the answer just hasn't been discovered yet.

I’ll go you one better. I know that the answer hasn’t ben yet discovered.

snowyflake wrote:
What I am certain about is that the answer is not in Genesis or any other part of the bible. The answer will lie in Science.

And then science “caught up to” Genesis 1:1, as Big Bang gained acceptance and Steady State lost favor about three thousand four hundred years after Genesis 1:1 was either entered into verbal memory banks or written down. Science seeks truth; God’s Word proclaims truth. No dichotomy in reality, just in peoples’ minds.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by snowyflake on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:20 am

Science seeks truth; God’s Word proclaims truth

Where Science seeks truth and provides evidence, God's word proclaims truth and does not provide evidence. You have stopped at Big Bang without considering alternatives because 'the Bible says so'. That is unscientific.

Mythical beings and gods are a longstanding feature in man's history. They just get recycled in man's imagination with bigger and better stories (like Harry Potter). Dissecting the original texts to suit a belief system doesn't make it true though. It is still just a belief.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Tosh on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:54 am

Science seeks truth; God’s Word proclaims truth


Science tests truth, God's words are untestable and any proclamation of truth must be testable.

Equating God's words to science or vice versa is not testing anything, its simply a worthless semantic exercise.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Tosh on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:57 am

Anything that evolves must have been created. .

According to you.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Guest on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:52 pm

snowyflake wrote:
Science seeks truth; God’s Word proclaims truth
Where Science seeks truth and provides evidence, God's word proclaims truth and does not provide evidence.

Science seeks truth by seeking answers to questions, allowing data to take truth seekers wherever it will. Data leads to Big Bang; by so doing, data has verified Genesis 1:1, the “who-what-when-where” of which is identical to Big Bang. Science has provided evidence of truth proclaimed by God’s Word perhaps three thousand four hundred years ago.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by snowyflake on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:06 pm

No, Rock. The data does not lead to Genesis1:1. You have made the evidence fit your hypothesis. You are adding 1+1 to get 2 when the answer isn't known yet. You are missing the corroborating evidence in the middle that would actually join the two ideas together. A + B = C. A = Big Bang and C = Elohim. You are missing B. That is a leap of faith on your part and not scientific.

If I find a fossil skeleton, I must be able to date it by the geological strata that it lies in, match it with other fossils found in the same layer, carbon date it, look at the literature to see if others were found in the same place, determine it's appearance, probable habitat and diet, and how it died. I don't find a fossil and then declare that it was created by God because I didn't look at all the evidence. I don't change the history of the world to suit my hypothesis. And if I don't have an answer I don't declare that it must be God. I look for a reasonable answer.

Take care, Rock. I'm going grocery shopping now and it is miserably wet out there and I would rather stay warm and dry inside. But if I don't, my hunter-gatherer husband won't have anything to eat Smile
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by polyglide on Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:16 pm

As I have said several times, there is much we do not understand regarding the earths past.

Life in many forms have appeared in fossil form and these go back far longer than history as we recognise it.

No doubt there are thousands that go back in time that we will never know about.

In considering time, as we calculate it, is meaningless when considering creation.

You can add as many noughts onto any figure you wish and you could be just as many figures out regarding the uiniverse.

No man can comprehend the extent of the universe nor what it may hold.

One thing is certain, we are a very, very, very, there are not enough very's
to show how insignificant our earth is compaired to the universe as a whole.

Big Bang little bang or anything else, that created the universe, must have been brought about by some explainable means.

The problem we have is that we can only think in our limited terms , we do not know of any process that covers the universe but if we did it would be just as simple as us explaining to a child how a toy was made etc;

But there must be such a process and therefore some guiding light that we are unable to comprehend.

In my case I am very happy to take matters from when God and Jesus became involved.


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