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What is the energy-future for the earth?

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What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by Papaumau on Tue May 01, 2012 12:28 pm


As an environmentalist and a confirmed "tree-hugger" I constantly worry about how we are caring for our earth and while doing so I try to see what the way forward is for this vital requirement.

While activists like me can put pressure on our first-world governments so that the search for efficient "renewables" keeps going I see how the trading-tigers of China India and other fast-growing second and third-world countries seem not to care how many new fossil-fuel power-stations they keep on building so that the power requirements of their runaway development can be maintained.

While Britain and America are STILL heavy polluters and the Kyoto protocols are no longer working as they should we find that the biggies like China Russia and India do not want to have their growth restricted at all by the need to stop polluting the environment.

This situation can only mean that eventually the earth is going to be so badly polluted that the human race is also eventually going to find that it can no-longer exist as conditions stand.

I have to ask...At this point, do we think that the fast-growing countries of the world along with the rest of the polluters are going to be forced to do the right thing, OR, by that time will it just be too late to save our world ?

Have any of you good people any ideas about what we should do to be able to stop this situation from coming about ?

Regards...

Papa....
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by tlttf on Tue May 01, 2012 12:41 pm

Good points Papa, are you saying we should prevent these countries from industrialising and keep the goodies to ourselves, or are you saying they should give work to us by letting us build them (out of cleaner energy of course) on their behalf?

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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue May 01, 2012 12:45 pm

None of us are likely to live long enough to see a GLOBAL solution to Man's rape of the Earth's resources. The last five years have witnessed a steady retreat from the Kyoto agreement.

Get used to breathing a polluted atmosphere in exchange for the freedom to own personal private transportation.
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by Papaumau on Tue May 01, 2012 1:12 pm


tlttf wrote:Good points Papa, are you saying we should prevent these countries from industrialising and keep the goodies to ourselves, or are you saying they should give work to us by letting us build them (out of cleaner energy of course) on their behalf?

tittf.....

Obviously we cannot force these countries to behave as far as polluting the world is concerned and the only way that these polluters are going to stop doing it is when their own people force them to behave. Because the power of the leadership of these countries is so great it may take a very long time for these folks to be emancipated enough to force their growth-crazy governments to follow the Kyoto protocols.

"Cleaner energy" at the moment is both more-expensive and less-efficient than it would have to be to replace the burning of fossil fuels so I guess that not until the Hydrogen revolution is here we are just going to have to keep experimenting with the renewables as they are at the moment.

oftenwrong wrote:None of us are likely to live long enough to see a GLOBAL solution to Man's rape of the Earth's resources. The last five years have witnessed a steady retreat from the Kyoto agreement.

Get used to breathing a polluted atmosphere in exchange for the freedom to own personal private transportation.

oftenwrong.....

I think that sadly - on this occasion, you are "dead right" as the governments and individuals will not freely and easily change from their gas-guzzling vehicles to the renewables as those "freedoms" that you speak of are more important to the care-nought people than any caring for the planet might be.

I do think though, that eventually we are going to be frightened into doing what is right when the irreversible destruction is almost upon us. Let's hope that by that time it is not too late.

Regards....

Papa....
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by Chivnail on Thu May 03, 2012 4:01 am

Before we force less-developed societies, where people enjoy fewer luxuries than we, to cut their emissions, we must indeed legislate to restrict the abuses that individuals here can perpetrate against the biosphere. We can't tell India that it must stop mining coal (of which it has the 4th largest reserves in the world?) for domestic and export use while we allow people to drive cars that get 10 or 20 miles to the gallon and they're driving Ambassadors that get 30-odd.

I don't think that humanity will pollute itself out of existence, but I do worry that we may pollute ourselves back into the sort of death rates that we haven't experienced since the acceptance of germ theory. Humans won't become extinct, I suspect, but we may in the comfortable west be harshly reminded of how fragile and mortal we are... we'll survive, and maybe even thrive as a species, but that doesn't preclude millions of avoidable premature fatalities.
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by Shirina on Thu May 03, 2012 4:33 am

I think the cold, hard reality here is that we're going to have to start working on alternative energy sources in earnest. I don't mean stop-gap measures like wind and solar power that can be finicky and aren't suitable for all climates (not to mention that solar and wind farms take up A LOT of space). I mean more exotic forms of energy like zero-point energy, cold fusion, harnessing the massive amounts of energy found in a single cup of water. For instance, when a submarine moves too quickly, it causes tiny air bubbles in the water to heat up hotter than the sun's corona. We're talking millions of degrees (F). It's technically known as cavitation and sub skippers try to avoid it since it gives away the sub's position. But, if that could be controlled and used, it would virtually solve our energy dilemma.

The problem though is that any of these energy sources would cause the collapse of many a financial empire. Thus there are forces at work to suppress energy sources that do not involve fossil fuels. Nikolai Tesla is a fine example. He was on the right track to discovering some of these exotic - and FREE - sources of renewable energy. However, when his financial backer (who I believe was George Westinghouse) found out what he was doing, Westinghouse immediately pulled all of his funding saying, "If I can't put a meter on it and charge for it, I'm not going to fund it." Later, when Tesla died, his house was ransacked and ALL of his scientific notes were taken. To this day, they have never been found.

I believe that we have the technology and the know-how to end our dependence on fossil fuels - some say the US military has already has exotic forms of energy - but because free and renewable energy sources would fundamentally change the world as we know it (for the better), there are forces at work to keep such technology out of the hands of the average person. The automobile is a good example of this. The cars of today are vastly more advanced than a car of even 20 years ago. They have GPS, navigational equipment, proximity sensors, amazing sound systems, DVD players with HDTVs, and some can even park themselves. BUT, the heart of the car, the engine, is still the same old dirty, inefficient, environmentally unfriendly internal combustion engine that we've been using for over half a century. That has not changed. Why? Because the oil industry wants us to keep going to the pumps ... they don't want cars that can get 100 mpg because we would spend far less on gasoline (petrol) than we would with a car that only gets 20 or 30 mpg.

These financial empires will undoubtedly have to be sacrificed in order for our world to not only advance technologically, but also to equalize the standard of living for all nations ... not just the West and the industrialized East.
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu May 03, 2012 11:22 am

.... or to put it another way. Global International Companies are far stronger than any Government.
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by Papaumau on Thu May 03, 2012 2:04 pm


oftenwrong wrote:.... or to put it another way. Global International Companies are far stronger than any Government.

Yes Oftenwrong, you are right about that too !

The term "globalisation" is the one that is on the lips of the modern environmentalist activists all over the world at the moment and these activists are getting organised in large numbers in many of the polluter countries of the world. I would hope and think that eventually these protesting groups will change how governments do things even if they will probably not be able to change how the globalists themselves do things as they are the ones with the power and the large monetary resources.

As Shirina said:

There are many technological directions that we could take that would probably solve the fossil-fuel crisis and the pollution crisis but these directions will only be developed and come fully to fruition if they get financed by good people that have the money and that do care.

While it is true that there have been a few great discoveries that have been suppressed by the people of power that want to keep making internal combustion engines I think that eventually oil and gas and coal will become so expensive to use that the other technologies will have to be adopted by the vehicle manufacturers. I just hope that when that happens it is not too late to stop the chain-reaction of destruction that pollution causes.

Regards,

Papa....
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by JohnDTraynor on Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:36 pm

The problem with the future supply of energy and the control of climate effects of current energy use is that all production and distribution of energy is owned by components of the exploitative capitalist machine.  The entire process from research through exploration, extraction, transportation and consumption is informed solely by rampant profiteering with the added bonus of free money from tax-payers via various government grants.  The necessity of energy for the world to function means the ownership of its production is a sure path for the owner to continuous and limitless riches, and greater riches can always be acquired if there is less concern for environmental and local negative consequences.  This diametric opposition of energy manufacture to human comfort is true of all known energy options and methods of extraction, whether they are labelled as environmentally-friendly or otherwise.  

The unashamedly reckless exploitative energy industry includes wind and solar power as equally as it includes fracking for gas, drilling for oil and nuclear power.  The comparison of nice energy like wind to nasty energy like nuclear is ignorant because either can be wholly safe to both people and environment but also either can be damaging and very expensive; how safe, and also how efficient either method of energy production can be is dependent on the prevailing international economic system.

Fear-mongering about energy consumption is wrong.  Greater and greater energy efficiency, both power efficiency and cost efficiency, should always be a goal, but that efficiency is the responsibility of the producer of energy not of the consumer.  Greater efficiency is achieved through technological developments and through better infrastructure.  The possibilities for much improved efficiency are boundless.  Energy resources such as nuclear, solar, wind and thermal will outlive humanity.  The obstacle to efficiency (and the cause of pollution) is capitalist recklessness and unfettered greed, not human consumption of energy.  A retardation of human comforts is not necessary in order to safeguard access to energy.  The potential for endless energy resources exists.
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:39 pm

One day, human scientists will discover/develop a means of producing limitless energy. Already we've come a long way from rubbing two sticks together to make fire, and "safe" nuclear energy may be just around the corner. Unfortunately only Capitalism has the resources unless all the World's governments were to unite on a development programme. But don't hold your breath for that.

In the meantime it is impractical to turn our backs on fossil fuels and renewable sources.
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by Curious Cdn on Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:38 pm

oftenwrong wrote:One day, human scientists will discover/develop a means of producing limitless energy.  Already we've come a long way from rubbing two sticks together to make fire, and "safe" nuclear energy may be just around the corner. Unfortunately only Capitalism has the resources unless all the World's governments were to unite on a development programme.  But don't hold your breath for that.

In the meantime it is impractical to turn our backs on fossil fuels and renewable sources.
I beg to differ. There is no free lunch. If Newton were alive today, he would add that line to his laws on thermodynamics. Nothing will ever be limitless and there is nothing that we can do that will have no side effects. The root of our problem right now is that there are far too many of us and either, a minority of us live to a standard that our ancestors could never even dream of or we all live in increasingly humble conditions ... eventually everyone on Earth wallows in poverty and want. We have to limit ... curtail .. our fecundity immediately.
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:35 pm

Don't you think there may be enough energy for Man's needs inside a single volcano?

All you need is a harness of some kind.
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by Curious Cdn on Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:25 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Don't you think there may be enough energy for Man's needs inside a single volcano?

All you need is a harness of some kind.
Boy, if you get that one wrong, ...
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:34 pm

I haven't got it either right or wrong. Far cleverer people than me will be learning how to harness Solar Power, or the incredible energy trapped inside the Globe which we inhabit.

They've made a start with heat pumps.
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by boatlady on Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:45 pm

We have a solar panel on the boat - has got us out of trouble more than once
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:07 pm


What's wrong with this picture?

Haiti, probably the poorest Country in the world, leases one of its beaches to a Cruise Line. Labadie is rented-out to Royal Caribbean.

Locals are not admitted unless they are Catering staff.

What's wrong with that?

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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by stuart torr on Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:37 pm

From a long time ago oftenwrong as you can see, nobody answered your question or carried on the thread.
What is wrong with the picture? no cameras allowed.
Presumably when you are catering staff you do not go near where they do not want you to see?
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:49 pm

In a nutshell, money talks. Energy will always require someone to invest the money on making it available in a usable form. The Earth has enough heat in its core to keep us warm for several million years, but at what cost?
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by stuart torr on Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:09 am

Is it that it's going to be expensive to obtain oftenwrong? or the fact that like some inexpensive to the user that stops investors?
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by boatlady on Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:20 pm

I did hear that in many parts of the world (including England) you could generate enough electricity from solar power to supply the entire grid - that's a comparatively cheap source of power, and by the time it wears out the human race will probably be extinct or have emigrated to a better planet
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:34 pm

04/06/2014 · An energy firm has said it is not planning any more solar farms in Oxfordshire because the national electricity grid cannot cope.

http://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/news/yourtown/oxfordshire/11254020.Firm_scales_back_solar_farm_plans_as_the_grid_can_t_cope/

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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by boatlady on Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:40 pm

well, there you go - don't know why we need nuclear at all
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by stuart torr on Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:37 pm

Also of course all the dangers that go with anything Nuclear boatlady.
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:51 pm

Perhaps we could do without the gas-guzzler motor-car. The Victorians did, and look how much they accomplished.
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by boatlady on Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:07 am

I've recently bought a tricycle
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by bobby on Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:06 am

Perhaps we could do without the gas-guzzler motor-car. The Victorians did, and look how much they accomplished.

I do believe that most energy guzzling contraptions where developed in Victorian times, including the Horseless Carriage (Motor Car).

It wasn't me Guv it was them Rotten Victorians wot did it.
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

Post by stuart torr on Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:45 am

Well we have to blame somebody do we not?
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Large Hadron Collider

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:20 am


© Fabrice Coffrini/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

They spent $10billion on building a DARTBOARD?
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Re: What is the energy-future for the earth?

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