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Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

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Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by BobEllard on Tue May 15, 2012 6:24 pm

First topic message reminder :

I've been working with some good leftie friends on twitter to get a an e-petition on the Governments own website for a Motion of No Confidence in the ConDem government.

As you probably know already:- if these petitions get accepted on the site and gain over 100k signatures they have to be considered for a Commons Debate.

The motion we propose to have is :

"We, the undersigned state that this government has not acted in the interests of the people of the United Kingdom.

We require there to be a Motion of No Confidence debate in the House of Commons followed by a vote of MPs in support of the motion"

The idea is that it is left as open as possible so that disillusioned people of all political persuasions will be able to sign it, in order to maximise the support it gets. Also if kept as brief as possible it is more likely to be accepted, as it is less likely to get caught by one of the many grounds for rejection on the government site.

We would very much appreciate any comments and suggestions that people on here have, and especially ideas on how we can spread the word to let the people know it is available for them if they wish to sign it.
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by BobEllard on Wed May 16, 2012 1:18 pm

If you or anyone wants to see what I'm up to on twitter i'm @bobellard1, be happy to see anyone there!

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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by Adele Carlyon on Wed May 16, 2012 2:07 pm

I'm now following you, Sam and Luxlisbon! I'll keep re-tweeting! Wink
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by blueturando on Wed May 16, 2012 4:19 pm

A time for a no confidence vote for the coalition???...Maybe..

But a do we have a vote of confidence for anyone else? and if so why?

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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by BobEllard on Wed May 16, 2012 4:39 pm

I'd suggest Ed Miliband - I've been watching quite closely and I'm liking what I see. OK no real policies yet, but he has been saying things that are making a break from NU labour, I think he is at least worth trying out
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by BobEllard on Wed May 16, 2012 4:46 pm

BobEllard wrote:I think he is probably right too, just I've got a great big wide stubborn streak and I don't want to give up till I'm sure it can't be done, or as I like to describe it - wilful dumbness in the face of all the evidence.

Not wasting time though, while the govt one is going through the rejection process, we are working what plan B will be and getting it ready to roll as soon as the news comes in on Plan A

Hi Sam and Steve

As for using 38 degrees to base the campagin: Its not going to be quick or certain to take off, 38degrees is a very democratic organisation, so to get 38 degrees backing you basically need to get enough members onside who vote for it then it goes up to the exec for implementation: this describes the process: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

BUT its not necessary to make it a 38 degrees based campaign, we could host it elsewhere and persue other lines - like getting Labour, Unions and Facebook, Twitter support while at the same time working to get 38 degrees behind it.

38 degrees did that with the save the NHS e-petition and they got a lot of the 140K signatures (last time I looked)

Simplest, quickest way to get this off the ground is to revert to the orginal petition:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

which if I remember correctly the only reason we didn't support was it wasn't on the govts website. I move we go with this.
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by bobby on Wed May 16, 2012 4:59 pm

Hello Blue. Just what does Herr Cameron and co have to do to get past a Maybe.
And what do you want to hear from the others. Would lie after lie do you, just as Herr Cameron and Bastard boy Clegg have done since the 2010 Election.
We have three years (maybe) before the next General Election, and I am absolutely certain Labour will have more policies than even a Tory like you could wag a stick at. As I have said before "several times" ( bloody hell blue, youve made me shout now). How does Ed Miliband know the size of the problem he will inherit from the previous Coalition Government.

So Blue please explain, just how Ed Miliband or anyone else for that matter can promise anything right now, even to please little old you.
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by sampbang on Wed May 16, 2012 5:14 pm

BobEllard wrote:
Hi Sam and Steve

As for using 38 degrees to base the campagin: Its not going to be quick or certain to take off, 38degrees is a very democratic organisation, so to get 38 degrees backing you basically need to get enough members onside who vote for it then it goes up to the exec for implementation: this describes the process: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

BUT its not necessary to make it a 38 degrees based campaign, we could host it elsewhere and persue other lines - like getting Labour, Unions and Facebook, Twitter support while at the same time working to get 38 degrees behind it.

38 degrees did that with the save the NHS e-petition and they got a lot of the 140K signatures (last time I looked)

Simplest, quickest way to get this off the ground is to revert to the orginal petition:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

which if I remember correctly the only reason we didn't support was it wasn't on the govts website. I move we go with this.

Sounds good. At least we've got something to go with. With the go petition, once it receives a certain number of signatures, does it get presented to the gov, or would we need to present it in some form or another?

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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by BobEllard on Wed May 16, 2012 5:22 pm

I honestly don't know! I would hope that the authors of the petition would have thought that one thru,

I've found a contact the author link on the petition page:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Could be handy to make contact anyway.

You raised the question Sam, do you want to make that contact and get that dialogue going? If not I'd be happy to but I thought it only fair to give you first refusal.



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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by sampbang on Wed May 16, 2012 5:35 pm

I've just sent a message, basically asking what happens once a petition has a required number of signatures, would that be down to us to present it to parties involved, or would they help.

Also, are we going to set ourselves a target for the amount of signatures, say 100,000 like the government petitions?
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by BobEllard on Wed May 16, 2012 5:39 pm

I'd assume as the initiators - it's their gig, so they would present it, but we'll see what they come back with - its good that we've made the contact - maybe they are already making moves to push it we can coordinate with them and help out
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed May 16, 2012 5:44 pm

Tradition has had 400 years to get well dug-in at the Palace of Westminster, and the incumbents are hardly likely to allow the mob at the gates to upset them now.

They have a hundred and one ways by which an unwelcome proposal can be shunted into a siding for a year or so before receiving decent burial.
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by Redflag on Wed May 16, 2012 6:38 pm

BobEllard wrote:I think he is probably right too, just I've got a great big wide stubborn streak and I don't want to give up till I'm sure it can't be done, or as I like to describe it - wilful dumbness in the face of all the evidence.

Not wasting time though, while the govt one is going through the rejection process, we are working what plan B will be and getting it ready to roll as soon as the news comes in on Plan A

I do not know if you seen the police conference today BobEllard, it is more than a possibility that they could go on strike, if the gov't is going to change there side of of there contract with the police its only fair that the police should have the same opportunity to change there side of there contract, what do you think Bob.
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by skwalker1964 on Wed May 16, 2012 6:49 pm

I think a big reason we wanted to go with a new petition was the opportunity to reword and make it a lot shorter and more punchy - more likely to hold attention and get buy-in? I like the wording on yours but I'd still say add a little about the govt rejecting 2 petitions on their own site. Will get people's ire up and make them more likely to sign and retweet, maybe.
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by skwalker1964 on Wed May 16, 2012 6:52 pm

Sam - reckon we have some names (if we get a big number of sigs there should be no shortage of suitable people) like Tom Watson to present it and do a Joanne Lumley on them (lots of media coverage).

Endisnigh - it's about the PR value. Of course they won't open the debate in parliament, but such a (hopefully) massive public vote of no-confidence would have massive PR mileage for Labour etc.
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by BobEllard on Wed May 16, 2012 6:54 pm

Redflag wrote:
BobEllard wrote:I think he is probably right too, just I've got a great big wide stubborn streak and I don't want to give up till I'm sure it can't be done, or as I like to describe it - wilful dumbness in the face of all the evidence.

Not wasting time though, while the govt one is going through the rejection process, we are working what plan B will be and getting it ready to roll as soon as the news comes in on Plan A

I do not know if you seen the police conference today BobEllard, it is more than a possibility that they could go on strike, if the gov't is going to change there side of of there contract with the police its only fair that the police should have the same opportunity to change there side of there contract, what do you think Bob.

I'm woth you on this, absolutely right.

I'm seriously worried about what the government are doing with policing - to them reform is a code word for privatisation.

I know our police are a long way from perfect, but I'd rather have them nicking me than cops with G4S uniforms on. Private policing is the stuff of dystopian SciFi movies, I don't want to see it made real.

I think on this one, we should stand in solidarity with the fuzz.
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by BobEllard on Wed May 16, 2012 6:58 pm

skwalker1964 wrote:I think a big reason we wanted to go with a new petition was the opportunity to reword and make it a lot shorter and more punchy - more likely to hold attention and get buy-in? I like the wording on yours but I'd still say add a little about the govt rejecting 2 petitions on their own site. Will get people's ire up and make them more likely to sign and retweet, maybe.

It depends how important speed is - if we want to go now, there is one out there ready to go. OR if we want to have another go at setting our own off with the wording we want - it'll take a little longer.

I'll go either way - it's been me delaying to try to get the govt one going after all.

Don't forget also they haven't actually turned that one down yet, so maybe tomorrow may bring news.

I'll go with what the most people want to do
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by BobEllard on Wed May 16, 2012 7:05 pm

skwalker1964 wrote:Sam - reckon we have some names (if we get a big number of sigs there should be no shortage of suitable people) like Tom Watson to present it and do a Joanne Lumley on them (lots of media coverage).

i BAGS MEETING JOANNA LUMLEY!!!! ME!!! ME!!!! ME!!!

But seriously folks we can take as many different approaches as we can handle no reason why we can't go for all of them, see which works and which doesn't.

Collected ideas so far:
Push it on Twitter - including get high profile tweeps to help out
Push it on Facebook - create facebook Page,
get 38 degrees support -
get trade union support
get health service association support, RCN BMA etc
get labour party support - either at national or CLP level
get high profile celeb support
media coverage
maybe see if a newspaper would take the campaign on

*** this list is looking for more ideas if anyone has any

not all of these will work straight away, some will need perserverence and hard work so we also need to recruit people



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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by Redflag on Wed May 16, 2012 7:19 pm

BobEllard wrote:
Redflag wrote:
BobEllard wrote:I think he is probably right too, just I've got a great big wide stubborn streak and I don't want to give up till I'm sure it can't be done, or as I like to describe it - wilful dumbness in the face of all the evidence.

Not wasting time though, while the govt one is going through the rejection process, we are working what plan B will be and getting it ready to roll as soon as the news comes in on Plan A

I do not know if you seen the police conference today BobEllard, it is more than a possibility that they could go on strike, if the gov't is going to change there side of of there contract with the police its only fair that the police should have the same opportunity to change there side of there contract, what do you think Bob.

I'm woth you on this, absolutely right.

I'm seriously worried about what the government are doing with policing - to them reform is a code word for privatisation.

I know our police are a long way from perfect, but I'd rather have them nicking me than cops with G4S uniforms on. Private policing is the stuff of dystopian SciFi movies, I don't want to see it made real.

I think on this one, we should stand in solidarity with the fuzz.

The very same private companies that have got other contracts with this gov't, this is pay back for them pouring money into Tory party funds not one of there biggest Donors.
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed May 16, 2012 7:25 pm

This thread has probably already been allocated a Case File number at MI6, and has a room dedicated to monitoring. How many conspirators can you get into a holdall?
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by Phil Hornby on Wed May 16, 2012 7:37 pm

As a few colleagues on here might have detected, I am no admirer of any of the Tory Stormtroopers who currently hold sway over us, but I am not in favour of displays of bad manners such as those to which Theresa May was treated at the Police Conference today. Such behaviour is crude and cowardly and does those policemen and women no credit whatsoever. Where anyone is asked or invited to attend a function to speak there is no justification for abuse from a baying mob unless the guest generates it by making wholly provocative statements during their speech - even a studied silence is an unattractive response to a speaker and made the assembled officers look as bad as some of the citizens with which trhey regularly have to deal.

That said, she is a complete sneering cow whose policies are despicable like so many of her fellow Tory strutters...
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed May 16, 2012 7:43 pm

I find it confusing that the Party of Lor 'n' order can't even be friends with the Constabulary. Oh, well - my enemy's enemy is my friend. Gather ye rosebuds ....
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by sampbang on Wed May 16, 2012 8:42 pm

Found this on GoPetition, it's legal and accepted by number 10

The legal status of e-petitions (electronic, email or internet petitions) is in a state of flux. Some jurisdictions accept them and some don't. Scotland, Queensland (Australia), and Number 10 Downing Street (UK) all accept internet petitions. While internet petitions in some other jurisdictions may have no legal effect, the signatures of hundreds or thousands people represent a moral and persuasive force which can initiate change in many different circumstances. Non-governmental organizations such as Amnesty International often use petitions in an attempt to exert moral authority in support of various causes.

Also the testomonials on the site see some success. They said wikipedia can be a good place to link, so relevant content/pages would need to be found that you would be able to stick a link onto. But getting the petition out there on other websites would be crucial if the petition is looking at getting lots of signatures.
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by BobEllard on Wed May 16, 2012 10:14 pm

That is valuable to know - so while the GoPetition isn't the governments own petition site, it still has validity and credibility.

Linking to other websites - yes that is another task we can do to spread the petition

Did you see my comment above - I think it was at 7.09pm - I put a collected list of tasks to spread awareness of the petition - we can add that to it - I'll go back and reqoute it to bring it forward to the end - if you can make any sense of that
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by BobEllard on Wed May 16, 2012 10:19 pm

***This is a restatement of the 7pm note with Sam's website linking added to it

We can take as many different approaches as we can handle no reason why we can't go for all of them, see which works and which doesn't.

Collected ideas so far:
Push it on Twitter - including get high profile tweeps to help out
Push it on Facebook - create facebook Page,
get 38 degrees support -
get trade union support
get health service association support, RCN BMA etc
get labour party support - either at national or CLP level
get high profile celeb support
media coverage
maybe see if a newspaper would take the campaign on

Added 10:16 PM
Linking the Confidence motion petition to other websites such as wikkipedia pages and campaigning websites

*** this list is looking for more ideas if anyone has any

not all of these will work straight away, some will need perseverance and hard work so we also need to recruit people
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by Adele Carlyon on Wed May 16, 2012 11:01 pm

If you're gonna approach a newspaper, the mirror might be the best bet. See how passionate they really are about the smashing to pieces of our NHS! Wink
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by BobEllard on Wed May 16, 2012 11:06 pm

Nice one - yes I can see the Mirror making big waves about it . Thankyou
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by Blamhappy on Wed May 16, 2012 11:59 pm

Is it viable? Realistically, is this how it works?

(I'll sign.)
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by BobEllard on Thu May 17, 2012 12:15 am

Hoping so, it might not be realistic, but that hasn't ever stopped me before Very Happy

Seriously - its about doing something to fight back, OK it almost certainly won't go all the way and kill off this nasty government.

But if we can achieve getting a huge number of signatures it would give the opposition a bit more ammunition and maybe make into the media.

every bit of pressure adds up, so no it won't cause the government to fall, but it might help a bit.

Is that realistic? we have two big factors on our side: 1) The Internet 2) a huge number of disaffected people out there who I'm sure would sign if it were put in front of them.

Put those two things together and yes I think it is realistic, very difficult and a lot of work, but it is possible

I'm angry at this government, and I want to do something about it. I'm in a position because of current I'll health, I can't campaign on the streets. but I can campaign from my keyboard.

I'm really serious about this, I'm also prepared for the fact that it might all fall flat on its face, but I'm going to give it a darn good try.
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by sickchip on Thu May 17, 2012 12:28 am

Bob, I'll certainly gather a hundred or so signatures through contacts; and if each of them gets a further 30-40 signatures via their contacts....there's a few thousand. You will definitely gather momentum pretty quickly on this - a chain of people passing this on will get the signatures you need.
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by BobEllard on Thu May 17, 2012 12:38 am

Thankyou I hope you are right - best case - it will go viral all by itself, but it might need a bit of a shove at the start

I really appreciate all the positive contributions you and others are making, it is really encouraging
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by Stox 16 on Thu May 17, 2012 3:55 am

BobEllard wrote:Thankyou I hope you are right - best case - it will go viral all by itself, but it might need a bit of a shove at the start

I really appreciate all the positive contributions you and others are making, it is really encouraging

Well let me add my best wishes to you Bob on your project. as if we wait another full two and half years we could wake with no economy at all. so all power to you Bob

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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by Redflag on Thu May 17, 2012 8:02 am

BobEllard wrote:Nice one - yes I can see the Mirror making big waves about it . Thankyou

Or the Guardian BobEllard they have in the past broken stories about Tory sleaze.
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by Redflag on Thu May 17, 2012 8:05 am

BobEllard wrote:Thankyou I hope you are right - best case - it will go viral all by itself, but it might need a bit of a shove at the start

I really appreciate all the positive contributions you and others are making, it is really encouraging

Let me know if there is anything I can do BobEllard, maybe Im dreaming but what do you think would happen if majority of the UK signed do you think Scam..er..on and his cohorts would get the message. Redflag
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by Mel on Thu May 17, 2012 9:12 am

All sounds very good ladies and gentlemen. I wish I could add some more suggestions straight away.

Having seen Camercon on the news this morning making his determined stance on austerity with the usual arrogance, it struck me even more in my belief that he is not interested in growth for one thing. Second he is no doubt living in hope that Greece fails and the result affecting us here in the UK is precicely what he and Gideon want as an excuse to cover what they are really up to and that is the reversal of all Labour's measures replaced with massivley extended Thatcher ideology.
Therefore I really believe that measures for growth will be put on the back burner for the next three years,leaving Labour the dire result of our not seeing the subject addressed.
Good luck to Bob and his obvious tenacity. Fingers and everything else crossed.
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by BobEllard on Thu May 17, 2012 9:22 am

it's not just me sampang and skwalker1964 are equal co-conspirators!

Thankyou all for this support. A petition has been lodged on the Governemt e-petitions website, waiting to here back if it has been accepted or rejected.

If they reject we'll take our business elsewhere!

Once a petition is up and ready we'd really appreciate help with getting it out there - by all means possible: email, twitter, facebook, contacts in organisations, carrier pigeon, loud hailer - anything

Especially if anyone has contacts in press, trade unions, Labour party, health colleges, pcs, anything of that sort

Thanks again for all the support and goodwill
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by skwalker1964 on Thu May 17, 2012 9:51 am

Morning all - out of circulation most of last night, no wifi, but it looks as though things are bubbling nicely.

Bob - any word from the e-gov site? If not, it shouldn't take too long to get the petition wording up on the Go site, should it? We could still launch today and maybe even get the RCN people to mention it from the stage as they close their congress? Smile
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by BobEllard on Thu May 17, 2012 12:34 pm

Update: the government epetitions site has rejected my submission, so we will go to another petitions site. We should are aiming to get the petition up today, and a link will be posted as soon as one is available
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by skwalker1964 on Thu May 17, 2012 12:50 pm

The e-petition link is:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Let's get to work and hope it goes viral!
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by skwalker1964 on Thu May 17, 2012 1:09 pm

It makes a massive difference to think we just might make a difference!
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skwalker1964

Posts : 819
Join date : 2012-05-15

http://skwalker1964.wordpress.com

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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by sickchip on Thu May 17, 2012 2:10 pm

...I've signed and will be e-mailing the link to others.
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sickchip

Posts : 1149
Join date : 2011-10-11

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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

Post by Redflag on Thu May 17, 2012 2:22 pm

skwalker1964 wrote:The e-petition link is:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Let's get to work and hope it goes viral!

I have now signed petition good luck to you all.
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Re: Is it time for a vote of no confidence in this government?

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