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The Leveson Inquiry

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The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Blamhappy on Thu May 31, 2012 10:01 am

First topic message reminder :

I know it's a it late, but I'm starting the thread because Jeremy Hunt gives evidence from 10 this morning and this could be explosive.

Someone I follow on Twitter believes that Hunt might resign soon after giving evidence. How will this affect the evidence he gives (will he be braver?)? How will all this impact on David Cameron? What will be the general knock-on effect?

I think we could also discuss other aspects of the "hacking scandal" in general here too. Let's include discussion on Andy Coulson, who was charged last night with Perjury in relation to his court case in 2010.

It's quite exciting if you're sad like me Smile
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Phil Hornby on Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:40 pm

Meanwhile, the Civil Servant who was unable to find evidence to undermine Gordon Brown's testimony at Leveson regarding official 'phone calls to Rupert Murdoch is, nonetheless, thanked for his efforts by one of Cameron's 'advisers'...
(msn)

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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Mel on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:03 pm

Hello Scarecrow,
I'm sorry that you have not had one single reply to your post regarding Jewish Congressmen. In view of the rules laid out here on this forum which we all have to adhere to regarding racism and indeed anti-semitism it is not therefore surprising that such a delicate subject has been somewhat ignored by members. Even though you have made it clear you are not an anti-semitic. Having said that of course many thousands of very rich Jewish folk fled the Nazis during the war and now have a very big influence within the American economy.

As with all things in this world, money talks power, irrispective of race or religion I am sad to say.
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Scarecrow on Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:19 pm

Mel , don't be sorry for me , I would not have even mentioned it , had it not been for your post and the flack you had .

I posted facts , that's all , no one has to reply and I lost no sleep over it ha ha .

Wink
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Red Cat Woman on Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:08 pm

Scarecrow wrote:Mel , don't be sorry for me , I would not have even mentioned it , had it not been for your post and the flack you had .

I posted facts , that's all , no one has to reply and I lost no sleep over it ha ha .

Wink

That is true Mel, as Scarecrow will not lose sleep over it. When do you Sleep Scarecrow ha ha

just a joke
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Mel on Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:56 pm

"I posted facts , that's all , no one has to reply and I lost no sleep over it ha ha ."

That's good Scarecrow. Missed your posts though.

"Flack"? didn't notice any of any concequence, then again i'm thick skinned or just thick. Very Happy

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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Phil Hornby on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:40 pm

It appears from reports that the Pipsqueak , Gove, has annoyed Lord Justice Leveson , with some typically rabid comments about the potential effects of the Inquiry currently being carried out.

Gove is concerned, reportedly, about effects on the 'precious liberty' of freedom of speech, that may occur. I should like to take this opportunity to exercise this 'precious liberty' to say that I consider Gove to be one of the most obnoxious shits ever to taint British politics. The weedy creep is such an unpleasant little rat that he must surely be temptingly attractive to Tories as a future leader... Twisted Evil
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by tlttf on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:50 pm

The only thing that will come out of the enquiry is the government will be able to control the press, not sure they can be trusted to do that. I actually agree with Gove on this Phil.

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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by sickchip on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:54 pm

I consider Gove to be
A weedy creep
The most obnoxious shit
In british politics

Send him a poem, Phil. He likes that sort of thing. Very Happy
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Phil Hornby on Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:11 pm

Hearing moans of Michael Gove's
It surely all of us behoves
To take a stick and sharpen it
Then poke it in the little git


Do you think this might result in an MBE for me, sicky...?
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by sickchip on Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:17 pm

Laughing

...sharpening a stick, and joining the queue.
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:23 pm

The Leveson Enquiry will report in October, and will express several pious hopes that The Press will stop being beastly to politicians.

Nothing more.
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Adele Carlyon on Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:24 pm

I'd like to shove all thoe bibles straight up the little git's glory hole! The pompus soddin dinosaur! Grrrrr
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by sickchip on Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:33 pm

Adele Carlyon wrote:I'd like to shove all thoe bibles straight up the little git's glory hole! The pompus soddin dinosaur! Grrrrr

Laughing He is a pompous little sort isn't he? He seems to think the british public should be subject to his own whims, and inclinations.....poetry, bibles, etc. Does he see himself as our moral guardian or something, or does he view the electorate as his plaything to experiment with and socially engineer. What an arrogant little unlikeable man he is.

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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Phil Hornby on Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:38 pm

The only 'precious freedom' in which Gove truly believes is the right to do exactly what he and the Daily Mail tells us... Shocked
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by tlttf on Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:39 pm

All very true sickie, doesn't make him wrong regarding the enquiry though. Until now the only person who appears to be at odds with the truth seems to be Brown. The rest are simply strolling through the whole parade. Also true that the only one that seems to have retained any dignity was Major. Weird world innit?

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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Adele Carlyon on Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:45 pm

sickchip wrote:
Adele Carlyon wrote:I'd like to shove all thoe bibles straight up the little git's glory hole! The pompus soddin dinosaur! Grrrrr

Laughing He is a pompous little sort isn't he? He seems to think the british public should be subject to his own whims, and inclinations.....poetry, bibles, etc. Does he see himself as our moral guardian or something, or does he view the electorate as his plaything to experiment with and socially engineer. What an arrogant little unlikeable man he is.


Spot on Sickie! He lives in a soddin time warp, he has that typical tory "i know best attitude" too. He's talking the teachers down and is intent on screwing up the national curriculum. Surely teachers know how to teach, and if they don't they shouldn'y be teachers. I absolutely despise the cocky little toad. He needs to reign his neck in before someone snaps it for him! Jesus, I can recite all of WB Yeats' poem easter 1916, but it didn't get me a bloody job! Tsk Rolling Eyes
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Phil Hornby on Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:48 pm

" I can recite all of WB Yeats' poem easter 1916, but it didn't get me a bloody job! Tsk " .

Could this be because the question posed at interview was :" Please tell us about your previous employment, Ms Carlyon..." ? Very Happy




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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Adele Carlyon on Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:51 pm

haha! Yup! I told them that too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart, and I still didn't get the piggin job! I threw a bit of shakespear's sonnets at them too and even rough winds shaking the darling buds of may didn't work!!!! hehe....
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Ivan on Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:13 pm

Until now the only person who appears to be at odds with the truth seems to be Brown.
LOL. What you might have said if you could bring yourself to tell the truth for just once in your life is that Brown was one of the few people at Leveson who has been able to recall the past and doesn't suffer from selective memory syndrome.
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by sickchip on Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:42 pm

tlttf wrote:All very true sickie, doesn't make him wrong regarding the enquiry though. Until now the only person who appears to be at odds with the truth seems to be Brown. The rest are simply strolling through the whole parade. Also true that the only one that seems to have retained any dignity was Major. Weird world innit?

hello tlttf,

Well somebody has perjured themselves for sure. I think it's a little unfair to single Brown out - do you really believe Murdoch over Brown? Let's not forget Major's testimony also indicates Murdoch might have lied.
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Adele Carlyon on Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:53 pm

I wouldn't believe Murdoch if he told me it was monday tomorrow. He's the bloody devil incarnate. I think Brown is a far more honourable man than Murdoch and co.
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Phil Hornby on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:18 pm

Yes, I had the feeling that the convincing nature of most of Brown's testimony would prove difficult for his professional doubters to stomach.... Very Happy
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:49 pm

The problem for many of us is that it's not easy to like someone who made a career out of being unlikeable.
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Ivanhoe on Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:27 pm

Blamhappy wrote:I know it's a it late, but I'm starting the thread because Jeremy Hunt gives evidence from 10 this morning and this could be explosive.

Someone I follow on Twitter believes that Hunt might resign soon after giving evidence. How will this affect the evidence he gives (will he be braver?)? How will all this impact on David Cameron? What will be the general knock-on effect?

I think we could also discuss other aspects of the "hacking scandal" in general here too. Let's include discussion on Andy Coulson, who was charged last night with Perjury in relation to his court case in 2010.

It's quite exciting if you're sad like me Smile

Blamhappy, Why did we have the Levenson enquiry ?. Because of phone hacking. Why did we have the phone hacking, ?. Because a huge percentage of the public like to read junk in the Murdoch press.

Who is responsible for the Levenson equiry ?............................ The mindless readership of the Murdoch Press. Who is responsibly for the State of Britain today ?. Murdoch's readership.

Some while ago on the green near the House of Commons, actor Hugh Grant had a message for Rupert Murdoch, he answered this to a question from a reporter, ie "have you anything to say to Rupert Murdoch ?.

Yes Hugh Grant said, this. "Why have you ruined my country" ?
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Blamhappy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:04 pm

He's right. Murdoch's dreadful.

I like Hugh Grant, but journalists don't!
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Ivanhoe on Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:45 pm

Blamhappy wrote:He's right. Murdoch's dreadful.

I like Hugh Grant, but journalists don't!

No, my point is that his readership are thick.
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Blamhappy on Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:04 pm

Yeah, they are. lol
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Redflag on Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:08 pm

Blamhappy wrote:Yeah, they are. lol

I would love to know what will be in the Leveson report whenever it comes out, who will be on his liar list ??
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Leveson Inquiry

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:03 pm

QUOTE: "....Ed Miliband and his hopefuls to get their act together ...."

Separating Cameron from his Party in Parliament next week, on Leveson, sounds to me like a rather good beginning to The First Act.
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Redflag on Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:32 pm

oftenwrong wrote:QUOTE: "....Ed Miliband and his hopefuls to get their act together ...."

Separating Cameron from his Party in Parliament next week, on Leveson, sounds to me like a rather good beginning to The First Act.

I agree OW that will be the first step, then showing all voters out there that the Labour party will pay off the deficit but with the fairness, something this Tory gov't have not got a clue about.
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Papaumau on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:46 pm

It is now beginning to look as if there is going to be another compromise arrived at over this serious clash where Cameron wants a totally voluntary code of ethics for the media but Clegg and his new pal Ed Miliband want these new rules for the governance of the media enshrined in law.

Personally, I would not trust the media any further than I could throw the lot of them as far as self-regulation is concerned and it has to be a good idea for this new set of ethical rules to be enshrined in law.

I guess we are going to see how this works out very soon !

Regards....

Papaumau.
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:43 pm

What needs to be done to make the poor get out and vote?

Well I don't believe it's a tripartite "form of words" agreed at 2.00 a.m. on a Sunday morning.

Politicians are close to proving themselves an irrelevance to normal people.
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:47 pm

If it should transpire that Miliband has played any part whatsoever in letting the slimy Cameron off the hook, he will deserve all the contempt he receives, and will have proved himself no better than his temporary colleague Clegg, who is as trustworthy as a pork sausage-eating Rabbi...
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by boatlady on Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:24 pm

Don't know all the ins and outs, but I confess, I was having similar thoughts, Phil
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by Ivan on Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:37 pm

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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:27 pm

So the Parliamentary mice have agreed that the Press cat should be made to wear a bell.

Everything now depends on the Cat.
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by astradt1 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:45 pm

Just listening to the news paper review on Sky News and i can't make my mind up whether these new 'rules' are good or not...

there is a Mirror and Daily Mail journalists crying about the rules and when asked about all the hacking they response has been 'It's the Polices fault for not investigating properly'.....

Where have we heard the 'It wasn't us gov' excuse.......
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Over a year later, govt STILL hiding Leveson coaching and costs

Post by skwalker1964 on Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:43 pm

Original including links at http://wp.me/p2sftc-8zI

Well over a year ago now, on 31 May 2012, I sent a Freedom of Information request to the Cabinet Office (CO) requiring the following information:

1. Whether ministers, special advisors, civil servants and other government personnel were coached or in any way given preparation for their testimony to the Leveson enquiry.
2. How any such coaching or preparation was funded.
3. The cost of any such training or coaching.
4. By whom the training/coaching was carried out.

It was abundantly clear, from the carefully-structured responses of Cameron and his ministers and aides to the questions put to them during their testimony to the Leveson inquiry into press standards/behaviour and their links to Newscorp and others, that they had been coached about how to answer – what to say, and what to conveniently ‘forget’, in order to avoid incriminating themselves under oath.

Such coaching is illegal under UK law, as the government itself admits – but even if it were legal, it is unquestionably not legitimate for the public purse to pay for government politicians to get themselves out of legal and political trouble for things they should never have been doing. So I wanted to know exactly what coaching had been given, who by and to whom, and who funded it.

I knew when I sent the request that it wouldn’t be one that the CO would be happy to receive. I didn’t know quite how far it would go to avoid answering.

On 2 July I received a response. Kind of. It was a flat denial by the CO’s ‘Head of Knowledge and Information Management’ that the information was held at all:

I am writing to advise you that following a search of our paper and electronic records, I have established that the information you requested is not held by the Cabinet Office.

If my 3 July to that answer sounds scornful, that’s because it was:

The careful wording of this response..suggests deliberate evasion.
Coaching (or ‘refamiliarisation’ to use the PM’s laughable term for it) cannot possibly be organised without SOMEONE in government having full records of who received it, who provided it, and who paid for it.
I require your response by return confirming who in fact does have this information – and then I require it to be provided immediately, under the original FOI request, and not under a further 20-day period.

In the end, the CO didn’t take another 20-day period or calendar month, the period allowed by the FOI Act for responding to requests. It took almost 7 weeks, and only arrived over 2 weeks after I’d sent a reminder to the government that it was not meeting its legal obligations.

The response, when it finally came, was completely different to the initial one:



The short version, in plain English:

We do have the information we said we didn’t have – but now we’re going to use a different excuse for not giving it to you. We don’t think it will be in the public interest to disclose this information that you have legally asked for – we want to withhold it until we think it’s the best time to release it. But we have promised to do it as soon as part 1 of the inquiry is complete.

Now, consider for a moment how it might be in the public interest for the government to withhold information that could only be damaging to… the government. Consider a little longer. A bit more. Good.

Thought of any way that this information might be against the public interest? Nope, me neither.

But that’s what the government claimed. In my response, I aimed again for scorn – and derision. That response definitely merited derision.

I didn’t hear anything further until almost 3 months later, on 5 November, in spite of reminders. What I did get surprised even me, someone who is rarely surprised by anything this government will say or do.

I won’t reproduce the full wording here, because it would take too much space, but if you want to view it in full you can do so here. But I will paraphrase:

When we said we did have information after all, it was because we were including ‘legal assistance’ to witnesses in the definition of coaching or preparation. When we said we didn’t have the information, it’s because we were excluding it.

We’ve now decided we were right in the first place. Legal assistance doesn’t count as ‘coaching’ or ’preparation’ - so we don’t have any information to give you.

Sorry for any confusion. (!!!)

This weasel-thinking was so staggering that I immediately complained to the Information Commissioner’s Office. The ICO takes a long time to answer complaints, and it was January before I received notice of any progress apart from the CO trying to claim it had ‘resolved the matter informally’ – and March of this year before I received the ICO’s decision.

The ICO ruled that the CO was not fulfilling its public duty to make a straightforward interpretation of the meaning of requests, and that ‘coaching or preparation in any way’ certainly includes ‘legal assistance’. However, it only required the CO to give a new response – and gave it 35 working days, or about 2 calendar months, to do so.

That two-month period turned into 4 months. I wish I could say it was worth the wait:

The Treasury Solicitor’s Department provided Government witnesses with legal assistance. The Government is committed to publishing the costs of such assistance, and will do so in due course. This information is therefore exempt under s22. In line with the terms of this exemption in the Act, I have also considered whether it would be in the public interest to provide you with the information ahead of publication, despite the exemption being applicable. In this case, I have concluded that the public interest favours withholding the information.

When assessing whether or not it was in the public interest to disclose the information to you, I took into account the following factors: releasing the information to you would increase transparency around the Leveson Inquiry, which would be in the public interest, however it is also in the public interest to ensure that the publication of information of this kind is a properly planned and managed process, to ensure that the data is accurate once it is placed into the public domain; and, given that a commitment was made to Parliament to provide the information, that the information should be presented to the House of Commons in the first instance. I have concluded that, on balance, the public interest is better served by withholding this information under section 22 of the FoIA at this time.

In other words, the CO has gone back to exactly the same defence as before it was told by the ICO that it had not fulfilled its duty.

The CO admits that transparency – which the government boasts about when it is convenient, even when it is patently untrue – would be served by releasing the information, and that this would be in the public interest.

However, it argues that ‘properly managing’ the release – which is only of benefit politically to the government – is even more in the public interest. In the minds of this government, anything that is in its interest is also in the public interest. Astonishing arrogance once again.

Even more laughable is the reason given for wanting to ‘properly manage’ the release – to ensure that the information is correct when released. This information was requested more than a year ago – the government has had more than enough time to check, double-check, triple-check and then check again that the information is correct.

Note too how ‘after part 1 of the inquiry’ has subtly but crucially transformed into ‘in due course’. When does Leveson consider that ‘part 1′ was completed? His inquiry website tells us:

Lord Justice Leveson published his Report on Part 1 of the Inquiry on 29 November 2012.

Over a year ago, the CO withheld the information about preparation for testimony on the basis that it would be published once the first phase of the inquiry was completed – which more than 8 months ago.

Yet still the government obfuscates, ignoring the ICO’s decision and ‘moving the goalposts’ to allow it to continue to withhold information whose release it confesses would serve transparency and the public interest.

Whatever the details, this information must be deeply incriminating indeed for the Cabinet Office to go to such lengths of deceit, dissembling and evasion to – not to mention breaking the law about Freedom of Information requests – to keep it out of the public view.

I will be reviving the complaint with the ICO, but the process will no doubt drag on for some time yet – and the government has ‘form’ for completely ignoring the ICO and even High Court Judges to withhold politically-damaging information.

So don’t hold your breath – but the mere fact that the government is twisting itself into such knots to hide it shows that the information must clearly incriminate the government for doing something it shouldn’t have.

Which is pretty much the result of the whole Leveson inquiry, come to think of it.
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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:27 am

With the benefit of hindsight, it's likely that Leveson was intended to produce the kind of whitewash outcome which followed the Hutton fiasco. Neither Cameron nor his eminence gris puppet-master could have anticipated such a degree of personal involvement.

The Police became fully involved, and several Court cases are still running whilst an unknown number may be pending. So Steve Walker is undoubtedly correct in saying, "Don't hold your breath."

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Re: The Leveson Inquiry

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