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Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

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Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Talwar_Punjabi on Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

I am utterly dismayed and to say the least, distraught, that this sentence may be carried out. I do hope there is an international protest at this.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/31/sudanese-woman-stoning-death-adultery?INTCMP=SRCH
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:16 am

Who dat?




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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Tosh on Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:56 am

There is a big difference between bitching (for ideological reasons) about a tiny minority of foreigners who abuse the welfare state, and bitching about severe human rights abuse in foreign countries.

The developed world is by no means perfect but our heart is in the right place, sometimes.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by boatlady on Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:30 pm

snowyflake wrote:Also, boatlady, although it is not a rule as such: Messages in pm are meant to be private and not shared with the rest of the board. That's why they are called private message.

I think the rule about any information held by me is that it is mine to share, unless by sharing it I breach someone else's right to confidentiality.
In this case, I chose to share some very uncomplimentary comments made about me by someone who didn't know me as an illustration of the way that, in emotive topics like these, the normal rules of debate can be set aside in favour of personal vilification of someone who refuses to produce the same level of moral outrage.

This is not, to my view, conducive to an interesting or a constructive debate, and may explain why these threads are usually frequented by the same people all the time.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:49 pm

Clique. That's the word which seems appropriate. The little coterie of fellow-travellers who meet to insult each others' intelligence on threads like this one are not welcoming of interlopers who don't play to their self-imposed rules.

There is a resemblance to Crufts. If you're not a breeder you're merely a day ticket-holder.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Tosh on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:13 pm

Am I in or out of this obvious clique ? scratch
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by snowyflake on Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:44 pm

Boatlady, you are not aware of the years of discussions or OW's input into them. Discussions ought to proceed politely but I, for one, object very strongly to being accused of or implying that I am a racist. OW does not offer his reasons for implying this. He mostly just offers snide comments from the sidelines and then runs away from any further discussion.

Now, if OW cares to rephrase his comments then I am prepared to forgive and forget and if he ever wishes to actually engage in a proper discussion, everyone here would love that. It would be actually useful if, instead of lobbing insults from the sidelines, he actually tried to understand other's points of view as well.

A forum is a bit of give and take. We all have our views and we all like to discuss them. OW does himself no favours by not participating in the discussions. Perhaps, you will have more luck with him.

the normal rules of debate can be set aside in favour of personal vilification of someone who refuses to produce the same level of moral outrage.

Smile OW's moral outrage is at people sticking their noses into other people's business. This is not an issue about whether or not the neighbours have put the right colour bin out by the road. This about the lives and safety of women and girls around the world. I have asked him repeatedly why he thinks this way and all we get is a snide nonsense comment.

Discussion is a 2-way street, boatlady. I am just a little miffed that you have passed judgement without knowing the full story.

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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by boatlady on Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:32 pm

Don't think I've passed judgement - have simply passed a comment, based on personal experience.
And maybe asked a question?
Glad to hear that you feel discussion is a two-way street.
That's about the way I feel.
Maybe now would be the time for those 'day ticket holders' to step in and have their say?
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by snowyflake on Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:54 pm

OW is often accused of not caring, of supporting the abuse of women - I'm very sure that isn't the truth - he does, however, want to debate the issues and to raise a critical and questioning voice in the debate, which is often what I would like to do.

This comment is a judgement based on very little information.


It seems to me that people are trying to engage with this discussion, but unless they are completely going along with the rhetoric and the 'party line' no-one wants to hear what they have to say.

That is also a judgement. You would have to know OW and his input into these discussions which is usually very little. OW is here each day, every day, all day and the most we get out of him on these threads are throw away comments that do nothing to promote the discussion. So if OW wants to engage in a discussion as a 2-way exchange, I'm sure others would participate but the bottom line is the ball is in OW's court.

Anyway, OW should be able to speak for himself now. I'm sure he's a big boy. Courtesy and mutual respect are also a 2-way street.

If you have something to add to this discussion, boatlady, we can continue from there if you like.

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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by boatlady on Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:06 am

Opinions, not judgements - seemingly not welcome.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by starlight07 on Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:31 am

Tosh wrote:
The change should come from within any community ...

How does change come about when the community laws forbid change and kill those who try ?

Strength comes from 'unity' and if you have all women/men standing up for the same then how many people can you kill?
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Tosh on Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:38 am

Strength comes from 'unity' and if you have all women/men standing up for the same then how many people can you kill?

You are assuming unity exists and there seems little evidence of this within any Muslim community, and divinely inspired cultural laws can kill as many as they like with complete impunity.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by starlight07 on Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:49 am

oftenwrong wrote:Who dat?




Haifa Wehbe. Miss Lebanon .... a sex symbol in the Arab World.

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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Tosh on Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:16 pm

Haifa Wehbe. Miss Lebanon .... a sex symbol in the Arab World.

I suggest she stays in Lebanon safe under civil law, no concerts in Afghanistan methinks.

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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by snowyflake on Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:09 pm

Opinions, not judgements - seemingly not welcome.

Not to be too much of a stickler here, boatlady, but an opinion is a judgement.

Of course, your opinions and the opinions of others are welcome. Many of us on this board discuss quite heatedly many things that we are passionate about. If people want to discuss that's great but that takes some exchange of information. If someone wishes to imply that I am a racist because I happen to be passionate about human rights and particularly about women's/girl's rights, then the gloves are off.

It might do to get to know us a little bit before deciding we are all horrible because we gave OW a verbal cuff upside his haid for not explaining himself.....ever.

We would love to hear your opinions but if the responses you get are not as nice, accepting or tolerant as you would like them to be, well, that's the nature of the personalities on this board. For the most part, we are quite friendly with each other. We have been discussing for over 3 years on various forum boards so we know each other.

So please, I, for one would love for you to join us in discussions. Take care.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by boatlady on Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:51 pm

We have been discussing for over 3 years on various forum boards so we know each other.

Good for you
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by snowyflake on Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:55 pm

Good for you

lol! Ahhhhh, I see....not so tolerant as you like to make out you are Smile

Well, suit yourself. You are very welcome to join us in any case.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by snowyflake on Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:13 pm

Hello snowy. It’s good to see you here. Smile

Hi Ivan Smile Sorry, I missed this. Hope you are well. The administrator who betrayed your trust is just as wrong IMO. If people don't wish to receive pm's then they can opt for that in their settings. Alternatively, they can delete the message without reading it.

Take care of yourself. Give Molly a biscuit for me please. Smile

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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:49 am

Meanwhile, a Ford advert for their MPV in India ....



(series now withdrawn)
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Tosh on Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:15 pm

Oh well, nothing much to chat about, time to poke ow with a sharp stick.

Clique. That's the word which seems appropriate. The little coterie of fellow-travellers who meet to insult each others' intelligence on threads like this one are not welcoming of interlopers who don't play to their self-imposed rules.

There is a clique of contributors to these threads and sage, you are not one of them, you are a non contributor, sitting safely in the stands out of harms way compiling pretentious insults.

So go away and count edits or check spelling or flick through some more famous quotes because yet again your post is devoid of any content.



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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Tosh on Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:22 pm

Seemingly foreigners have the right to suffer abuse without xenophobes poking their noses into their liberties.

Ever read a left wing manifesto ?
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Guest on Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:24 pm


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Domestic violence in Pakistan is an endemic social problem. According to a study carried out in 2009 by Human Rights Watch, it is estimated that between 70 and 90 percent of women in Pakistan have suffered some form of abuse.[1] An estimated 5000 women are killed per year from domestic violence, with thousands of others maimed or disabled.[2] The majority of victims of violence have no legal recourse. Law enforcement authorities do not view domestic violence as a crime and usually refuse to register any cases brought to them. Given the very few women's shelters in the country, victims have limited ability to escape from violent situations.[2]

Lisa Hajjar, an Associate Professor at the University of California, describes abuse against women in Pakistan as "endemic in all social spheres".[3] In an observational study published in the Pakistan Journal of Medical Sciences based on a "convenience" sample of 218 women in the gynecology wards of three hospitals, 97% of the interviewed women said they had been victims of some form of assault, ranging from verbal abuse or threatened, to being subjected to beatings or non-consensual sex.[4]

Women are often attacked and murdered if their in-laws deem their dowry to have been insufficient.[6] Amongst dowry-related violence, bride burnings, also known as "stove deaths",[7] are widely reported. In 1988 a survey showed that 800 women were killed in this manner, in 1989 the number rose to 1100, and in 1990 it stood at 1800 estimated killings. Newspapers in Lahore in a six-month period (1997) reported on average 15 attacks a month.[9] Women's eNews reported that 4,000 women had been attacked in this manner in Islamabad's surroundings over an eight-year period, and that the average age range of victims was between 18 and 35, with an estimated 30 percent being pregnant at the time of death.[7] The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan reported that about four women are killed in this manner every day, by either family members or husbands.[10] Shahnaz Bukhari, who runs the Progressive Women's Association in Islamabad, has said of such attacks: "Either Pakistan is home to possessed stoves which burn only young housewives, and are particularly fond of genitalia, or looking at the frequency with which these incidences occur there is a grim pattern that these women are victims of deliberate murder."[7]

Acid attacks in Pakistan came to international attention after the release of a documentary by Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy called Saving Face (2012).[11] Various reasons have been given for such attacks, such as a woman dressing inappropriately or rejecting a proposal of marriage. According to the Acid Survivors Foundation, up to 150 attacks occur every year. The foundation reports that the attacks are often the result in an escalation of domestic abuse, and the majority of victims are female.[11]

Another reason given for abuses is patriarchalism in Islamic society, which marginalizes women’s role.[17] In some traditional societies, a man is considered to have the right to physically beat his spouse.[5] According to Rahel Nardos, it is "the dual constructs of women as the property of men and as the standard-bearers of a family's honour set the stage for culturally sanctioned forms of violence".[18] Women have reported attacks ranging from physical to psychological and sexual abuse from partners, in-laws and family members.[19] In 1998 of 1974 reported murders the majority of victims were killed by either family members or In laws.[17] A survey carried out by the Thomson Reuters Foundation ranked Pakistan as the third most dangerous country in the world for women, after Afghanistan and the Democratic Republic of Congo; it is followed by India and Somalia.[20]

Retrieved 4 April 2013 from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_Pakistan

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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Guest on Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:29 pm

starlight07, Sunday 31 March 2013, 21:38

Oh well, it wasn't a bad ending then.

It has not ended in the country of your ancestors and/or your origin.

RockOnBrother, Thursday 4 April 2013, 16:24
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:32 pm

Tosh wrote:....

There is a clique of contributors to these threads and sage, you are not one of them ....


Any more startling flashes of perception to share with us, Tosh?

e.g. The Pope is a Catholic
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Tosh on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:46 pm

Any more startling flashes of perception to share with us, Tosh?

Any more selective editing and I will be sharing a lot with you Sage.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Tosh on Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:47 pm

Texas, do you have to print out wiki's terms and conditions, or is this yet another example of your precision ?
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:08 pm

Have you noticed, Tosh, that (Moderators apart) there are only five other people posting on your thread here?

Select, or what !
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Tosh on Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:53 pm

Have you noticed, Tosh, that (Moderators apart) there are only five other people posting on your thread here?

Wherever I post hundreds( cough) follow to read and admire, the select few who post are my co-performers but I am the star( not Star).

The golden age of message boards is gone but in the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:39 pm

Alas, poor Steinbeck, his voice we'll hear no more ....
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Guest on Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:28 am

Somalia: Horrendous Violence Against Women Enabled by Culture of Impunity

From AllAfrica:

Sexual violence remains part of daily life for many women living in camps for internally displaced people.

According to the United Nations refugee agency UNHCR, after years of war rape has become a threat to women in Somalia whenever they move along roads, due to the presence of militia at illegal roadblocks and in IDP settlements such as Galkayo, which hosts about 50,000 persons.

One of them, 33-year-old Hibo, a widow, told UNHCR that security had improved slightly since a small police station was built nearby. “However, three women were still assaulted each night, she told UNHCR. “I don’t expect much help from the police. They cannot do anything and the culprit might take revenge if I dare complain,” she said.

A nurse said, “Women are raped almost daily on the isolated outskirts of the town. We systematically do a tetanus shot; since young Somali women are genitally mutilated and infibulated, rapists always use a knife to rip their vagina open.”

“We encourage them to talk because we want to make sure they won’t commit suicide. But sometimes we find out the truth only when it is too late. We also care for several pregnant women who look perfectly normal. Once they deliver, they kill their baby and this is how we understood that they had been raped.”

http://www.feministpeacenetwork.org/2007/11/30/somalia-horrendous-violence-against-women-enabled-by-culture-of-impunity/
Sexual Violence Against Women Soars In Somalia

Recently there's been an increase in various forms of sexual abuse against women, ranging from forced marriages to gang rapes.

groups in the region are using sexual violence as a weapon of war. According to the New York Times, members of the Shabab militant group… have taken to forcing families to arrange marriages between soldiers and their daughters. The arrangement [are] actually just a form of sex slaverygirls who try to resist are killed.

Often militants… will simply seize women and girls to be raped and abused… unaffiliated bands of armed men or government soldiers are raping women as they travel… or after they settle into refugee camps.

http://jezebel.com/5871512/sexual-violence-against-women-soars-in-somalia
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Tosh on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:00 am

Thank God there is no rape nor domestic violence in the Christian cultures, men are too busy loving their neighbour but not in a gay way of course.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Tosh on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:48 am

Where does it say in Islamic scripture it is ok to rape a woman ?
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Ivan on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:07 pm

Texas, do you have to print out wiki's terms and conditions, or is this yet another example of your precision?
Tosh. Good evening. We take copyright violation seriously on this forum, as neither Shirina nor myself wish to be landed with a lawsuit. Our basic rule is that quotations should not exceed 14-15 lines and should be accompanied by a link. It’s all fairly obvious really: if someone can read the whole of an article on a free forum, it can be argued that it gives them less incentive to buy the newspaper or magazine. In other words, breach of copyright can be considered to be theft. More details can be found on these threads:-

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t645-staff-notices-for-members

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t137-copyright-concerns

The only exception to that rule is Wikipedia, which allows its articles to be reproduced on sites such as this one. By drawing attention to that fact, Rock is doing the right thing and pre-empting any possible complaints from the usual suspects.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Tosh on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:47 pm

The only exception to that rule is Wikipedia, which allows its articles to be reproduced on sites such as this one. By drawing attention to that fact, Rock is doing the right thing and pre-empting any possible complaints from the usual suspects.

Did you just say wiki is the exception to the rule, now I am confused, who are the usual suspects, I bet one is Rock, he is so precise he probably reports himself.

p.s. I was not aware oftenwrong was black, its like the damn UN in here.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by polyglide on Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:42 pm

After reading the appalling stories regarding the way in which females are treated in many lands, one can only come to the firm conclusion that we humans are not fit to be on the same planet as animals.

Politics, I do not like, however, certain activities should not be ignored and the treatment of not only women but also men and children thoughout the world is a a clear indication to the depths which we humans have decended.

As individuals we can do nothing, collectively, maybe, the chances of doing so, about the same as a butterfly coming about by chance.

We humans have completely lost our way even the animals must be disgusted.

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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Tosh on Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:01 pm

After reading the appalling stories regarding the way in which females are treated in many lands, one can only come to the firm conclusion that we humans are not fit to be on the same planet as animals.

What do you mean " we humans "...I thought you were an alien lost in space.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Shirina on Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:06 pm

We humans have completely lost our way even the animals must be disgusted.

Oh, I completely agree. One thing humans have that animals do not is RELIGION!

Therein is where so many of our injustices lie.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by polyglide on Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:34 pm

I partly agree that religion is responsible for many of our problems, the trouble is the false religions have corrupted religion from the intended, to become tools of the Devil and this fact is never considered, no one seems to take the Devil seriously and that is why he gets away with it.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by snowyflake on Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:21 pm

I partly agree that religion is responsible for many of our problems, the trouble is the false religions have corrupted religion from the intended, to become tools of the Devil and this fact is never considered, no one seems to take the Devil seriously and that is why he gets away with it

All religions are false. They offer false hope and the delusion that you will have eternal life. It's the adult replacement of Santa Claus. Humans need to grow up and fend for themselves without the need for a Sky Daddy to watch over us.

The Devil doesn't exist either. He is as much a fantasy as God is or any other fictional character in a story.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Tosh on Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:31 pm

I partly agree that religion is responsible for many of our problems, the trouble is the false religions have corrupted religion from the intended, to become tools of the Devil and this fact is never considered, no one seems to take the Devil seriously and that is why he gets away with it.

Prove your religion is true and all the rest are false, then we can proceed.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by snowyflake on Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:57 am

I can't take the devil seriously. He's a cartoon character in a fictional novel. It ludicrous for a grown man to believe in gremlins or leprechauns. The devil is just a well-marketed leprechaun. Grow up. Smile
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

Post by Shirina on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:47 pm

The Devil doesn't exist either. He is as much a fantasy as God is or any other fictional character in a story.

Actually, I find the Devil to be an even more ludicrous concept than God - and even more implausible. Yet the Devil is entirely necessary because all good STORIES have conflict and antagonists. On a spiritual level, the Devil is entire superfluous other than as a scapegoat to keep God's ass clean.
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Re: Sudanese woman sentenced to stoning death over adultery claims

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