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Issues of morality shut Christians up

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Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Greatest I am on Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:47 pm

First topic message reminder :

Issues of morality shuts Christians up.

I know I have done well in an O. P. when Christians run from a discussion.

I wrote these two posts and got almost no response. Not a usual thing for my posts. This tells me that I hit the nail right on the head and Christians have no apologetics to refute my claim.

==========================

If you accept this as universal morality, you will reject God.

http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

God does not follow the first rule at all.

The bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or sin.

This shows that what many thinks is our number one moral value was completely ignored by God.

Is God immoral or has man gotten morality wrong?

If God was right, then are we to believe that fathers are to bury their children instead of the way people think in that children should bury their parents?

John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.”

On earth as it is in heaven.

If you had God’s power to set the conditions for atonement, would you step up yourself or would you send your child to die?

=============================

God to Jesus. I just condemned the human race. Now go die to save them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott1...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqP_f...eature=related

I think that the notion that punishing the innocent instead of the guilty perpetrator is immoral. Be it a willing sacrifice as some believe with Jesus or unwilling victim.

I also think that God, who has a plethora of other options, would have come up with a moral way instead of an immoral and barbaric human sacrifice.

I agree with scriptures say that we are all responsible for our own righteousness as well as our own iniquity and that God cannot be bribed by sacrifice.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psalm 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

I believe as I do because I believe that the first rule of morality is harm/care of children.

http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

Do you agree that the notion of substitutionary atonement is immoral and that God’s first principle of morality is hare/harm and that this would prevent him from demanding the death of his son?

==============================

This lack of opposition to the premise given tells me that Christians may actually be more moral than what I give them credit for. They do not walk their talk in these cases and that is a plus.

Seems Christians actually recognize good morals even if they do not preach them.
I thank Christians for confirming my view that they are just following tradition, dogma and culture while not really following their God. Thank God for that. Any sane man would reject the bible God.

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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Tosh on Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:06 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-x7eHuUhNM

I love this guy.

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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Greatest I am on Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:09 pm

Tosh wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-x7eHuUhNM

I love this guy.

I like him as well and have even communicated with his organization.

I'm not sure if I agree with your other post on child mortality and longevity being key to morality although I think I see your direction of thought. I do not disagree but would have to think on it a bit.

Have a look at this and see if you would make the same statement.

http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

I can imagine a world where sanctity is thrown out the window even with a long lived and healthy population and that is why I question you on this.

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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by polyglide on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:51 am

I could understand anyone disputing my sanity if they appeared sane themselves but in the case of Tosh ?????

You want evidence regarding the state of the world.

First take the prospect of conflicts.

North Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Israel, in particular, along with most of both the other Middle East and Far East nations not to mention China, America and Russia all having their own agendas and likes and dislikes of each other and kick in the oil situation along with all the natural disasters that we are having at the present time along with the weapons now available and the situations between the above and those who cannot see the possibilities are fools.

Crime, in the last week the following were reported:-

Six children murdered.
Three children murdered.
Two young children under four murdered by their mother.
Two youths stabbed to death
Two old age pensioners hacked to death.
MPs fouind lying, theiving and some probably involved in child abuse.
along with the possibility of Judges, Gentry and others from all walks of life being involved in the worsty kind of child abuse.

The best way of considering the extent of crime is the number of criminals in jail.

All our jails are bursting at the seams many criminals who should be in jail are let off because they are queing up to go into what our prisons now are, first calss hotels.

To keep the peace in jail the criminal deserving a life sentence is given 10 years with the chance of release before if he/she behaves this is done purely in the hope that the criminal will behave aand naot cause trouble.

In a recent paper it was stated that numerous serious crimes were totally ignored by one police force and it is a well known fact that many crimes are not recorded.

The above is just a little of the state of crime in our country.

Polls etc; are meaningless. Go outside a Gay bar and ask those coming out if they agreed with homosexuality, go outside a Muslim establishment and ask the same quesion.

You would get 100% for and 100% against would that mean 50% are in favour and 50% against?

Someone please expain to Tosh, poor fellow.




In many cases the victim is totally ignored and left to their own devices.






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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Tosh on Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:30 pm

polygide,

There is a broader picture, unfortunately your mind is too narrow to comprehend it.

I am not the crazy wacko who thinks the universe and its contents is younger than the oldest tree...lolol.

How are you allowed out into the community ?
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:06 pm

Which crazy wacko are you then, Tosh?
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Tosh on Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:32 pm

Which crazy wacko are you then, Tosh?.

The one that has got right under the superficial skin of your pretence of cool, and may I say, with consummate ease.

A message board is not a suitable hiding place for low esteem and a fragile ego.

Oh by the way, you still haven't mentioned your religious or theistic persuasion, how does that work as a regular on these threads ?

Surely you are more than capable of defending your beliefs against a crazy wacko like moi ?

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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:54 pm

religious persuasion, moi? Pretentious, toi?
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Tosh on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:12 pm

religious persuasion, moi?

Evasion.


Pretentious, toi?.

Delusion.

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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by snowyflake on Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:06 pm

In a recent paper it was stated that numerous serious crimes were totally ignored by one police force and it is a well known fact that many crimes are not recorded.

Poly, you do know that the Daily Mail or The Sun is not a credible source for news? Neither is Jeremy Kyle, Jerry Springer or Trisha? You do know that don't you?

As to your 'state of the world' claims. There are 7 billion people on the planet. 1% of them are hardcore criminals = 70 million around the world. The UK has a population of 60 million. 1% is 600,000 people around the UK are hardcore criminals. That's a lot of people but it is relatively small compared to the entire population of mostly really good people. Your view of the world is warped, skewed and demented.

Yes, awful things happen. But in relative terms crime is reducing in the UK. Violent crime is reducing according to police. But no, you focus on the headlines rather than the fact that 59,400,000 people mostly obey the law in the UK. What a sad world you live in. You're a glass half-empty kind of girl ain'tcha? Smile
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by polyglide on Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:52 am

Snowflake, you are lost in the mist of your own making.

It takes only one nation to action that can destroy the world, it matters not how many good nations there are.

It matters not how many good people there are it is the damage the bad people do that is out of proportion to their numbers.

We all live in a sad world, there are children starving in our country, where are all the loving people you mention, what are they doing about it ? etc;

I did not mention the finacial situation in many countries is such that there is the possibility of disruption in several guises that could make life difficult for millions of people.

I did not mention terrorism that affects nearly every nation on earth and is increasing at an alarming rate.

Many nations children live in extreme poverty, those asking for donations to assist in just providing water say that a small donation every month will propvide a well, why do not all the nice people you mention get together and provide them with all the wells they need?

How is it that many people are afraid to go out in the dark even in our own country?

Any information given by the police can be taken with a pinch of salt regarding numbers of crimes etc they change the methods of obtaining them to suit themselves.

I bet you are an empty glass type of person, having emptied quite a few,
according to your observations that are anything but realistic but then if you have a brain to match the empty glass there is a genuine excuse for you.

You have my deapest sympathy.



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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Tosh on Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:08 pm

Any information given by the police can be taken with a pinch of salt regarding numbers of crimes etc they change the methods of obtaining them to suit themselves.


Whereas your information is the gospel truth.
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by snowyflake on Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:39 pm

Polyglide is an expert on science, world affairs, politics and crime. I bow to your expertise, education and hubris, polyglide. One cannot argue with irrationality, ignorance or stupidity.

It would be far more reasonable if you just said 'in my opinion' especially when you don't have any facts to back up your statements. You just spout your own opinion based on your religious beliefs. This is not debate. This is just making unfounded, unsubstantiated statements.

Read a science book. Get some facts that can be verified to support your opinion. Then we can have a sensible discussion. As it stands, discussing evolution with you, someone who knows nothing about it, is pointless. Trying to educate you when you stubbornly refuse to look at the data is also pointless. You are unwilling to learn.
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Tosh on Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:41 pm

This is not debate.

No debate there.
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Shirina on Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:30 pm

Polyglide, you must have your head sunk deep into some apocalyptic cultist's website. I have told you repeatedly that the lives of people are actually getting better, and better all the time. More and more people are reaching the same quality of life that we have here in the West, and the world has not seen a major war since WWII. In fact, if you look around the world today, almost ALL of the violence is caused by warring religions and sectarian violence within the same religion. Sure, there are still starving people in places like Africa and rural Asia, but that's actually an improvement from the days when people were starving everywhere, including Europe and the Americas.

Unfortunately, however, I believe that you're one of those people who want the world to come to an end because you think Jesus is going to rapture you and the believers, and that's a dangerous mindset. You sit on this board and warn us about the End Times as if you and your apocalyptic friends think there is some external source for them. The reality is that it's not an external force -- you and your apocalyptists are the ones who are the most likely to usher in the very prophecies you think come from God. Blind religious zealotry will be the cause of a doomsday, should one occur, and your attitude is precisely the kind of attitude that could get us all killed. But I suppose that's the whole point of being an apocalyptist, isn't it.
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:21 pm

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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by snowyflake on Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:32 pm

The half-empty glass kind of girl meets Eeyore Smile
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by ROB on Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:54 am

Shirina wrote:
… the lives of people are actually getting better, and better all the time. More and more people are reaching the same quality of life that we have here in the West, and the world has not seen a major war since WWII.

List of wars, death toll by % world population

dates, estimated deaths, event, % world population
1207 – 1472, 30,000,000 - 60,000,000, Mongol Conquests, 7.5%–17.1%
1340 - 1368, 30,000,000 - 30,000,000, Yuan to Ming warfar, 6.7%
755 - 763, 13,000,000 - 36,000,000, An Lushan Rebellion, 5.5%–15.3%
1616 - 1662, 25,000,000, Ming to Qing warfare, 4.8%
1369 - 1405, 15,000,000 - 20,000,000, Conquests of Timur, 3.4%–4.5%
1939 – 1945, 40,000,000 - 72,000,000, World War II, 1.7%–3.1%
1851 - 1864, 20,000,000 - 100,000,000, Taiping Rebellion, 1.6%–2.1%
1914 - 1918, 15,000,000 - 65,000,000, World War I, 0.8%–3.6%

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_disasters_by_death_toll#Wars_and_armed_conflicts
__________________________________________________________________________________________

In 1207–1472, 1340–1368, 755–763, 1616–1662, 1369–1405, and 1851–1864, there were no Ma Deuces, tanks, Lancasters, Flying Fortresses, Superfortresss, battleships, cruisers, destroyers, submarines, aircraft carriers, Wildcats, Hellcats, Corsairs, Spitfires, Hurricanes, Zeros, Mosquitos, Me-109s, FW-190s, Me-262s, V-1s, and V-2s.

Among members of Cutting Edge are several that just one hundred years ago would be “stuck like Chuck” in regards to debilitating or life-depriving diseases/conditions. Today, various specialists poke you, prod you, measure you, and pretty much bug you silly before telling you how they plan to keep you alive and relatively healthy. In 1912, Ol’ Doc Rasputin Jones would just say, “You’re gonna die.”
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by snowyflake on Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:56 am

Quoting old stories etc; written by man, is a waste of time as far as I am concerned, several men can see an action and you can have several entirely different stories covering the same event.

What is the entire bible but old stories written by men?
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by polyglide on Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:35 pm

My information is based on what I actually see and am certain of the facts relating to the matters in quesion before I consider the implications.

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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:41 pm

polyglide wrote:My information is based on what I actually see and am certain of the facts relating to the matters in quesion before I consider the implications.


Can you trust what you see?

I will add these clips to the mix for your consideration. They show who put what in Jesus' mouth and how Christianity has been manipulated. The first which is part of the second speaks to my Gnostic Christian label and the second shows my view of religions overall and the Noble Lie that I think we and our governments should rescind. The third clip speaks to the reason that religions were invented in the first place as it shows why social control was required for city states that had to deal with the reality of finite resources. I see these city states as led by a timocratic king who through the religion that he would have created, also realized that there had to be a tyrannical part to his benevolent duty and created a religion to be just that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D134B912A5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrMtRm3b8MU&feature=autoplay&list=PLCBF574D134B912A5&playnext=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne1wIEGnPWo

I see the King/God as having to have the morals shown in the Haigt clip.

http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

He would have to create his religion as expressed through his high priest/tyrant who would live by the first commandment of God, place no one above me as the enforcer of his King/God's rules and laws while still obeying his King. The larger Roman system would later assume the same system through the Noble Lie. First through the Flavian and later through Constantine.

http://www.simchajtv.com/movie-secrets-of-christianity-selling-christianity/

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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by polyglide on Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:56 pm

Actually you have a point.

Television and all the latest technology can make anything appear real and no doubt we have all been fooled at some time or another.

But no one can change the fact that I know when I see a tree and can actually feel it that, that is a fact.

The same applies to every living thing.

If someone says there are seven and you know for sure there are more then you base it on what you actually know and not what you hear et;

You will find numerous accounts of the life of Jesus and mostly by those with little real understanding.

The only real and accurate account will be evident at the Judgement Day.

You must wonder why there are so many different stories that conflict with each other and the reason is those putting forward their ideas are usually on an ego trip and want to tell thier story as they see it but without any foundation.


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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:29 pm

You say that those who speak of things like a Judgement Day have little understanding yet give them credit for understanding that particular concept.

Seriously.

I guess that you miss the logic that if God created then all that he created would do exactly what they were created to do. You have God judging his own work and think he will find it lacking. How droll.

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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:27 am

Greatest I am wrote:
… if God created then all that he created would do exactly what they were created to do.

Elohim’s Word:

Hebrew Bible

And Elohim said, “Let us make ha adama in our image, after our likeness…” So Elohim created ha adama in his own image, in the image of Elohim created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 1:26-27

Ha adama is created by Elohim into freedom of choice. Ha adama is free to choose Elohim or not Elohim. You are ha adama; accordingly, you are free to choose not Elohim. So speaks Elohim; so shall you be.


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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Greatest I am on Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:35 pm

Are you saying that God has a vagina and breasts?

If he made woman in his image then he must have. Right?

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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Tosh on Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:18 pm

Hebrew Bible

And Elohim said, “Let us make ha adama in our image, after our likeness…” So Elohim created ha adama in his own image, in the image of Elohimcreated he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 1:26-27

The Hebrew Bible says no such thing, and inserting flawed Hebrew( ha adama) into a King James English translation for Christians does not make it any more authentic or accurate, you are intentionally misrepresenting the Hebrew Bible, please stop.

This is the untainted, unbiased and above all Hebrew translation of the Jewish Scriptures.

"Said God make man Our image to Our likeness, rule the fish of the sea the birds of the sky the cattle all the earth every creeping creeps on the earth".

God and his angels made " the human being " ( haadam).




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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Shirina on Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:20 pm

Television and all the latest technology can make anything appear real and no doubt we have all been fooled at some time or another.
Kind of like how you've been fooled by television and the latest technology into believing that the world today is so much worse than it was in, say, the year 1300?
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by polyglide on Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:38 pm

It is lttle wonder you have some strange ideas, you have not grasped the perfect engine concept.

God made Adam and Eve perfect for the life he intended for them and all that folowed.

He gave them the chance of the best possible life, the only stipulation being that they had to behave in a proper manner, just as the engineer who made the perfect engine told those who were to use it how it must be maintained, it was not the engineer's fault that the engine went wrong but those who chose not to follow the instructions.

Just as mankind has denied the instructions God told them would be the best way to have a fruitful life.

If God had made man incapable of choice then they would be robots.

What is missing in all this matter is the Devil and the part he is playing but then it appears there are those who believe in evolution and that says all.
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Tosh on Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:43 pm

It is lttle wonder you have some strange ideas, you have not grasped the perfect engine concept.


The Jewish Scriptures can only be interpreted by Jews, you are not a Jew, you have no authority to dictate what they mean.

You make a habit of speaking without authority, first science and now the Jewish Scriptures, your delusion knows no bounds.

Barking bonkers.

I have a feeling you are a throwback to your primate ancestors.
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by polyglide on Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:51 pm

You have a feeling, I understood from all your innane comments that you were devoid of any feelings.

From your photograph I assume you think you are a throwback, for heavens sake do not let any monkey here you say that the would be mortified that such a being insulted them.
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Tosh on Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:58 pm

You have a feeling, I understood from all your innane comments that you were devoid of any feelings.

You and understanding are complete strangers, anyone who believes the Bible is literally true has learning difficulties.

From your photograph I assume you think you are a throwback, for heavens sake do not let any monkey here you say that the would be mortified that such a being insulted them. .

Nice juvenile comeback, shouldn't you be back at school learning everything...lolol.

Next. Very Happy
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Tosh on Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:07 pm

Creationism as a mental illness: Robert Rowland Smith asks if creationists are sane

Hence creationism, the theory/superstition that, contrary to massive scientific evidence, the world began exactly as described in the Book of Genesis. Instead of deriving from millions of years of patient evolution, Adam and Eve popped out, fully formed, like characters from a Swiss cuckoo clock. Would you Adam and Eve it? Of course not. It's a myth, but like many myths it serves a psychological purpose which is to provide a storybook sense of simple origins, which allays people's fears. Those who believe this myth to be the truth are in a state of denial.



http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/breakfast-socrates/201003/creationism-mental-illness


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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Tosh on Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:10 pm

Belief in creationism ‘form of mental illness’
Fostering a belligerent belief in the fundamental tenets of Creationism often forms a large part of the profile of a person suffering from mental illness, according to Swedish researchers.

http://philosophers-stone.co.uk/wordpress/2012/10/belief-in-creationism-form-of-mental-illness/

Oh dear, lock the doors...polyglide is on the loose.
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by polyglide on Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:16 pm

I do not have to go to school in the first place to recognise stupidity and lack of common sense both of which you must have masters degrees in.

You are way out of your depth, keep to the infantile stage and you may do better.
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Tosh on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:11 pm

I do not have to go to school in the first place to recognise stupidity and lack of common sense both of which you must have masters degrees in.

So sayeth the creationist with common sense...lol.

You are way out of your depth, keep to the infantile stage and you may do better. .

I am not the one claiming 99.9 % of scientists are all wrong, that is you stupid.

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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:16 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up
by Greatest I am on Tue 13 Nov 2012 - 13:35

Are you saying that God has a vagina and breasts?

If you had read and comprehended my words, you would have known what I am saying.

RockOnBrother wrote:
Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up
by RockOnBrother on Tue 13 Nov 2012 - 4:27

Elohim’s Word:
Hebrew Bible

And Elohim said, “Let us make ha adama in our image, after our likeness…” So Elohim created ha adama in his own image, in the image of Elohim created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 1:26-27
Ha adama is created by Elohim into freedom of choice. Ha adama is free to choose Elohim or not Elohim. You are ha adama; accordingly, you are free to choose not Elohim. So speaks Elohim; so shall you be.

As you can see, and should have been able to see Tuesday 13 November 2012 at 13:35, I am saying “Elohim’s Word”, “Ha adama is created by Elohim into freedom of choice”, “Ha adama is free to choose Elohim or not Elohim”, “You are ha adama; accordingly, you are free to choose not Elohim”, and “So speaks Elohim; so shall you be.”

Greatest I am wrote:
Are you saying that God has a vagina and breasts?

If he made woman in his image then he must have.

If you had studied the Hebrew word “צֶּלֶם, tselem”, translated “image” in Genesis 1:26-27, you would have realized the nonsensicalness of your question and your statement.
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Shirina on Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:44 pm

God made Adam and Eve perfect for the life he intended for them and all that folowed.
Have you ever wondered what life was supposed to be like for Adam and Eve? Were they just supposed to giggle and frolick around naked in a garden for eternity, bereft of any real purpose other than to stroke God's ego and create an incestual family?

It just doesn't make any sense. None whatsoever.
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:19 pm

Perhaps this is what you all meant to say.

"Value Theory

First published Tue Feb 5, 2008; substantive revision Tue May 29, 2012

The term “value theory” is used in at least three different ways in philosophy. In its broadest sense, “value theory” is a catch-all label used to encompass all branches of moral philosophy, social and political philosophy, aesthetics, and sometimes feminist philosophy and the philosophy of religion — whatever areas of philosophy are deemed to encompass some “evaluative” aspect. In its narrowest sense, “value theory” is used for a relatively narrow area of normative ethical theory particularly, but not exclusively, of concern to consequentialists. In this narrow sense, “value theory” is roughly synonymous with “axiology”. Axiology can be thought of as primarily concerned with classifying what things are good, and how good they are. For instance, a traditional question of axiology concerns whether the objects of value are subjective psychological states, or objective states of the world.

But in a more useful sense, “value theory” designates the area of moral philosophy that is concerned with theoretical questions about value and goodness of all varieties — the theory of value. The theory of value, so construed, encompasses axiology, but also includes many other questions about the nature of value and its relation to other moral categories. The division of moral theory into the theory of value, as contrasting with other areas of investigation, cross-cuts the traditional classification of moral theory into normative and metaethical inquiry, but is a worthy distinction in its own right; theoretical questions about value constitute a core domain of interest in moral theory, often cross the boundaries between the normative and the metaethical, and have a distinguished history of investigation."



http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/value-theory/
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Tosh on Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:13 pm

Perhaps this is what you all meant to say.


Can you explain to all of us why we all meant to say what you have just googled ?

I personally cannot wait for this.
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:31 pm

Then please keep your legs firmly crossed, to avoid embarassment.
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:52 pm

Shirina wrote:
It just doesn't make any sense. None whatsoever.

Life doesn’t make any sense.

Life is in fact nonsensical, serving no purpose whatsoever insofar as the survival of the Earth is concerned. The Earth is in fact nonsensical, serving no purpose whatsoever insofar as the survival of the Solar System is concerned. The Solar System is in fact nonsensical, serving no purpose whatsoever insofar as the survival of the Milky Way Galaxy is concerned. The Milky Way Galaxy is in fact nonsensical, serving no purpose whatsoever insofar as the survival of the universe is concerned.

And the universe? Ah, the pinnacle of nonsensical, serving no purpose whatsoever insofar as the survival of anything save itself is concerned, and since doing anything, including existing, to ensure the survival of something nonsensical is nonsensical, the existence of the universe is nonsensical.

And so these poetic words are wise words:

Hebrew Bible

“Vanity of vanities”, says the Preacher, “vanity of vanities; all is vanity.”
What profit has a man in all his labor which he does under the sun?

One generation passes away, and another generation comes, but the earth abides forever. The sun also rises and the sun sets, and hastening to its place it rises there again. The wind goes toward the south, and turns about unto the north; it whirls about continually, and the wind returns again according to its circuits. All the rivers flow into the sea, yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thereto they return again.

All things are wearisome; man cannot speak it. The eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor is the ear filled with hearing.

Ecclesiastes 1:2-8

Now heed the red octagonal sign and come to a complete stop (not a “California stop”), make a U-turn, and go back, all the way back.

The universe is essential to the survival of the Milky Way. The Milky Way is essential to the survival of the Solar System. The Solar System is essential to the survival of the Earth. The Earth is essential to the survival of Life.

Perhaps (or perhaps not) the purpose of the universe is the survival of the Milky Way. If no other purpose is posited, and given that no other purpose has been posited on Cutting Edge, then insofar as can be ascertained from the body of data posted hereon is concerned, either (a) the purpose of the universe is the survival of the Milky Way, or (b) the universe has no purpose.

Perhaps (or perhaps not) the purpose of the Milky Way is the survival of the Solar System. If no other purpose is posited, and given that no other purpose has been posited on Cutting Edge, then insofar as can be ascertained from the body of data posted hereon is concerned, either (a) the purpose of the Milky Way is the survival of the Solar System, or (b) the Milky Way has no purpose.

Perhaps (or perhaps not) the purpose of the Solar System is the survival of the Earth. If no other purpose is posited, and given that no other purpose has been posited on Cutting Edge, then insofar as can be ascertained from the body of data posted hereon is concerned, either (a) the purpose of the Solar System is the survival of the Earth, or (b) the Solar System has no purpose.

Perhaps (or perhaps not) the purpose of the Earth is the survival of Life. If no other purpose is posited, and given that no other purpose has been posited on Cutting Edge, then insofar as can be ascertained from the body of data posted hereon is concerned, either (a) the purpose of the Earth is the survival of Life, or (b) the Earth has no purpose.

Summation: Perhaps (or perhaps not) the purpose of the universe is the survival of Life. If no other purpose is posited, and given that no other purpose has been posited on Cutting Edge, then insofar as can be ascertained from the body of data posted hereon is concerned, either (a) the purpose of the universe is the survival of Life, or (b) the universe has no purpose. Accordingly, either (a) survival of Life is the meaning of existence, or (b) existence is meaningless.


Last edited by RockOnBrother on Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

Post by Shirina on Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:04 am

either (a) the purpose of the universe is the survival of Life, or (b) the universe has no purpose. Accordingly, either (a) survival of Life is the meaning of existence, or (B) existence is meaningless.

Well, that's somewhat debatable. Granted, we're only in our infancy when it comes to exploring the universe, but thus far, it really doesn't appear that the universe is very conducive to life. Even if we were to find 100 planets with life on them in the next 50 years, those small motes of rock where life clings are but the tiniest fraction of the entire universe. One would think that if the purpose of the universe was to support life, there would be more of it.

Even so, it doesn't explain why I should believe that God created Adam out of dirt and Eve out of Adam's rib. That's the story that makes no sense.
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Re: Issues of morality shut Christians up

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