Welcome to Cutting Edge. Guests can see and read the contents of most of the boards on this forum but need to become members to read all of them. Currently membership is instant, but new accounts may be deleted if not activated within fourteen days.

If you decide to join the forum, please open your welcome message for further details. New members are requested to introduce themselves on the appropriate thread on our welcome board.

Members may post messages and start threads, but it is essential that they read our posting rules and advice before doing so. If you have any immediate questions or queries, please post them on the suggestions board.

After posting at least ten messages, members are able to contact each other and the staff through our personal messaging system.

This forum is administrated by Ivan and moonbeam and moderated by boatlady and astradt1.

Thank you for visiting Cutting Edge.

To hate Jews is to hate God

Page 6 of 24 Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7 ... 15 ... 24  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Greatest I am on Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:22 pm

First topic message reminder :

To hate Jews is to hate God.

If you believe in the sacrifice of Jesus, then you must believe that God planned for it and set the conditions even before the earth was formed. If as most believe, the Jews were the cause of the sacrifice, then one must believe that God put the notion and desire to kill Jesus in the Jewish hearts. Jews then were God’s tools in carrying out God’s plan. Jews then should be venerated just as Jesus is because Jesus and Jews were required and caused by God to participate in the sacrifice. They were all doing God’s will and not their own.

Jesus was a Jew and to hate Jews means that Jesus is also hated. The church has historically persecuted Jews and only repented for their actions in 2011 with the pope acknowledging that not all Jews should be hated. Just those directly involved in the sacrifice of Jesus. Ignoring of course that they were charged directly by God to be and do what God wanted.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/jews-not-responsible-for-death-of-christ-pope-says-49267/

Why then have Christians historically hated Jews, and by inference, hate the Jew part of God/Jesus the Jew?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKg4HLsu5gE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2KwQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

The weird twist to this history is that the Christian right who hates Jews the most, is now the ones pushing for funding of the Jewish homeland to fulfill prophesy.

Most Jews do not believe that Jesus was the messiah. Is the Christian right just funding Jews to help drive them to destruction at the hands of God?

Jews tend not to read the O. T. the way Christians do. Are Christian interpretations of Jewish text superior or inferior to the Jewish interpretation of their own myths?

Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1078
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down


Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Shirina on Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:59 am

We all suffer from idol worship. Even atheists.
Actually, I do not. In fact, I can't even fathom the idea of worship much less practice it. I simply hold NOTHING in such high regard as to regale it with worship. No, not even myself.

I think of American football and how people react when their team wins or loses. Entire cities will celebrate or go into mourning depending on the outcome of a big game. People run around cheering, jumping around, getting drunk, even rioting in some cases, all over a damn sports team that neither they or anyone they know actually plays for. The celebrants did nothing but sit there and watch, waving foam #1 fingers and painting themselves up in their team's colors like a tribal warrior. I've seen people bawl like babies if their team loses. I even saw a video of one angry fan who literally picked up and smashed a $3000 HDTV. I even look at European football (soccer) and just can't understand why riots occur - I mean real riots - over a sporting event. It boggles my mind how anyone can get so emotionally wrapped up in something they're not even really involved in.

I see that kind of strangeness elsewhere too ... such as concerts where girls just scream and scream and scream when their heart throb walks onto the stage (it's one reason why I avoid live concerts).

Now, I can be happy that my team won, I can be excited to see a good musician live in concert, and I can certainly feel a deep and lasting respect and admiration for certain individuals. But worship? That's the extreme side of admiration and I just can't go that far. I'm sure that's one of several reasons why I'm an atheist. Oh, it's not pride. I just don't FEEL it. Then again, I'm a strange puppy and I've often wondered if I've been sent here by some alien race to observe human behavior (I'm being facetious there). The reason is because I just don't seem to get out of life what so many others do, but being on the outside looking in does give me a somewhat unique perspective on why people do what they do. I suppose in that regard I certainly cannot speak for the majority of athiests - perhaps they DO worship something, but I do not. Worship is beyond me.


Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:22 pm

I think of American football and how people react when their team wins or loses.

Don't knock it, Shirina. An outlet for all that torment and tumult in the Sports Arena is infinitely preferable to the classic tendency of invading a neighbouring territory.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11898
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by snowyflake on Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:37 pm

Neither Mexico nor Canada has been invaded by Americans, so far as I know, in recent memory.

Spoken like a true colonial Brit to attack Americans on their foreign policy as if British foreign policy is any different. Great Britain used to be Great, it's not even Mediocre now.

Truly unbelievable. Take that bloody redwood tree out of your own eye before picking on the speck in the Americans eye.

avatar
snowyflake

Posts : 1217
Join date : 2011-10-07
Age : 59
Location : England

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by snowyflake on Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:42 pm

I'm an atheist and I don't idol worship. There isn't anything on this planet or out in the universe that I would regard so highly that I would feel the need to worship it.

That is actually an erroneous statement. I like shoes....but I wouldn't say that I worship them and I certainly don't need brand name shoes that cost the blooming earth for a little scrap of leather.....oh but I do like pretty shoes....

I love you

avatar
snowyflake

Posts : 1217
Join date : 2011-10-07
Age : 59
Location : England

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Greatest I am on Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:05 pm

Shirina wrote:[The reason is because I just don't seem to get out of life what so many others do,

As usual, well put.

Good. You have chosen a real thrill and not a foolish artificial lie to live by.

but being on the outside looking in does give me a somewhat unique perspective on why people do what they do. I suppose in that regard I certainly cannot speak for the majority of athiests - perhaps they DO worship something, but I do not. Worship is beyond me.


I too do not call what I think and how I feel about it in the usual meaning of worship. But I am sure you do, sort of.
You are as fundamentally tied to your beliefs as all are. You do have a God but let's define it as your thinking pattern.

I see his monologue as transcending religious Gods or political Gods. God being defined somewhat as the rules we follow for the best life. Your thinking pattern. In that sense we all follow our version of God whatever it is. We all follow our God within.

You may not acknowledge a religious God but may acknowledge a political one. Your God from that POV might be the Democratic God or the Republican one. So to speak.

As to us all being fundamentally locked into our thinking patterns, be we atheists or believers or whatever; that should be obvious to you by simply answering two questions for yourself.

How often, as an adult, have I changed one of my held beliefs?

And.

How often have I seen a believer change his held belief?

I answer these with almost never.

So will you I think.

Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1078
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Greatest I am on Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:13 pm

snowyflake wrote:I'm an atheist and I don't idol worship. There isn't anything on this planet or out in the universe that I would regard so highly that I would feel the need to worship it.

That is actually an erroneous statement. I like shoes....but I wouldn't say that I worship them and I certainly don't need brand name shoes that cost the blooming earth for a little scrap of leather.....oh but I do like pretty shoes....

I love you


You have to allow for semantics and the use of symbol like the word God and the definition of worship.

You are fundamental in your thinking the way we all are.

Please have a look at the reply to Shirina and answer those two questions and come on back.

You may not use the word worship and neither do I but we all give our highest regard to our thinking on theology, philosophy religion and politics.

Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1078
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by snowyflake on Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:57 pm

How often, as an adult, have I changed one of my held beliefs?

I used to be a born again Christian in a Baptist church. I was baptised when I was 13 expecting to be visited by the Holy Spirit. When nothing happened I was thoroughly disappointed but not wanting to disappoint the pastor pretended that it happened. You see Rock and Polyglide? That was me 40 years ago. Then, I sort of slid into spiritualism because what churches and other religious institutions do, I find highly distasteful. So I believed in a soul and an afterlife but did not worship at a church or anything. Then for awhile, I was agnostic so as not to offend believers so it was ok to be agnostic because in essence you're sitting on the fence. Then, after a university education, I climbed off the fence and looked back over my lifelong beliefs and decided they were rubbish. Reality is pretty darn good. Life is wonderful and we are lucky to be alive to experience it all. So over my life, I've changed my views quite a lot.

How often have I seen a believer change his held belief?

The rise in atheism suggests that it's happening quite a lot.

As a scientist, you must be willing to change your mind in light of new evidence, otherwise, as you say, you become dogmatic and biased in your views.

But I get your point, GIA. Most people will never change their minds no matter how much reality you throw at them. For them, belief is their comfort blanket that makes death easier. I don't blame them really but it is delusional and I think it stops people from really enjoying and appreciating this life.
avatar
snowyflake

Posts : 1217
Join date : 2011-10-07
Age : 59
Location : England

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by snowyflake on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:01 pm

You may not use the word worship and neither do I but we all give our highest regard to our thinking on theology, philosophy religion and politics.

No I don't think I'm that vain about my own point of view. I like to hear others pov's because I'm learning something about how people think and I find it fascinating. I like the way some people are very focused in their responses, concise, precise. Some are very good writers. A good turn of phrase impresses me in the same way a lovely painting impresses me. It is an appreciation. I wouldn't call it worship or idolatry.
avatar
snowyflake

Posts : 1217
Join date : 2011-10-07
Age : 59
Location : England

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:18 pm

snowyflake wrote:Neither Mexico nor Canada has been invaded by Americans, so far as I know, in recent memory.

Spoken like a true colonial Brit to attack Americans on their foreign policy as if British foreign policy is any different. Great Britain used to be Great, it's not even Mediocre now.

Truly unbelievable. Take that bloody redwood tree out of your own eye before picking on the speck in the Americans eye.


When did Football become part of American Foreign Policy, slowflake?
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11898
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Greatest I am on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:18 pm

snowyflake wrote:
How often, as an adult, have I changed one of my held beliefs?

I used to be a born again Christian in a Baptist church. I was baptised when I was 13 expecting to be visited by the Holy Spirit. When nothing happened I was thoroughly disappointed but not wanting to disappoint the pastor pretended that it happened. You see Rock and Polyglide? That was me 40 years ago. Then, I sort of slid into spiritualism because what churches and other religious institutions do, I find highly distasteful. So I believed in a soul and an afterlife but did not worship at a church or anything. Then for awhile, I was agnostic so as not to offend believers so it was ok to be agnostic because in essence you're sitting on the fence. Then, after a university education, I climbed off the fence and looked back over my lifelong beliefs and decided they were rubbish. Reality is pretty darn good. Life is wonderful and we are lucky to be alive to experience it all. So over my life, I've changed my views quite a lot.

How often have I seen a believer change his held belief?

The rise in atheism suggests that it's happening quite a lot.

As a scientist, you must be willing to change your mind in light of new evidence, otherwise, as you say, you become dogmatic and biased in your views.

But I get your point, GIA. Most people will never change their minds no matter how much reality you throw at them. For them, belief is their comfort blanket that makes death easier. I don't blame them really but it is delusional and I think it stops people from really enjoying and appreciating this life.

I agree and they also never find their true internal God.
We should all be trying to improve our internal conscience and throw away our external bibles.
Even Jesus preached writing the laws of God on our hearts.

I do not agree with your "The rise in atheism suggests that it's happening quite a lot. "

I would suggest that they, unlike you who decided to sit on the fence for your social comfort, which is ok BTW, they decided to just not lie.

I was born Catholic and went through the sacraments but I never really believed.

Regards
DL

avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1078
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Greatest I am on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:21 pm

snowyflake wrote:
You may not use the word worship and neither do I but we all give our highest regard to our thinking on theology, philosophy religion and politics.

No I don't think I'm that vain about my own point of view. I like to hear others pov's because I'm learning something about how people think and I find it fascinating. I like the way some people are very focused in their responses, concise, precise. Some are very good writers. A good turn of phrase impresses me in the same way a lovely painting impresses me. It is an appreciation. I wouldn't call it worship or idolatry.

Semantics. It is all your highest regard, respect or whatever.

Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1078
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by snowyflake on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:22 pm

Don't knock it, Shirina. An outlet for all that torment and tumult in the Sports Arena is infinitely preferable to the classic tendency of invading a neighbouring territory
When did Football become part of American Foreign Policy, snowyflake?

You tell me, OW. You're the one slagging off America and Americans every chance you get without taking a good hard look at your own country and the mess it's in. Why don't you clean up your own yard before taking a pop at your neighbours eh? Very Happy
avatar
snowyflake

Posts : 1217
Join date : 2011-10-07
Age : 59
Location : England

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by snowyflake on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:28 pm


I would suggest that they, unlike you who decided to sit on the fence for your social comfort, which is ok BTW, they decided to just not lie.

Yes, well that's when I decided that atheism is probably correct since nothing in this life has convinced me of spiritual existences after death. We are actually raised to believe in God. Starting with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Children easily buy into make believe so once they are believing in Santa Claus, God is the natural next step in indoctrination.

Semantics. It is all your highest regard, respect or whatever.

No, I don't agree. There isn't anything that warrants my highest regard except my family and a few friends but that is not worship. That is love.
avatar
snowyflake

Posts : 1217
Join date : 2011-10-07
Age : 59
Location : England

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:29 pm

Physician, heal thyself.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11898
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by snowyflake on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:30 pm

Physician, heal thyself

I can say the same for you, OW. Smile
avatar
snowyflake

Posts : 1217
Join date : 2011-10-07
Age : 59
Location : England

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:36 pm

I am neither Jewish nor a God, slowflake. Is it perhaps time to get back on topic? What do you think?
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11898
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Greatest I am on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:37 pm

snowyflake wrote:
Don't knock it, Shirina. An outlet for all that torment and tumult in the Sports Arena is infinitely preferable to the classic tendency of invading a neighbouring territory
When did Football become part of American Foreign Policy, snowyflake?

You tell me, OW. You're the one slagging off America and Americans every chance you get without taking a good hard look at your own country and the mess it's in. Why don't you clean up your own yard before taking a pop at your neighbours eh? Very Happy

He may have cause.



Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1078
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Greatest I am on Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:40 pm

snowyflake wrote:

I would suggest that they, unlike you who decided to sit on the fence for your social comfort, which is ok BTW, they decided to just not lie.

Yes, well that's when I decided that atheism is probably correct since nothing in this life has convinced me of spiritual existences after death. We are actually raised to believe in God. Starting with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Children easily buy into make believe so once they are believing in Santa Claus, God is the natural next step in indoctrination.

Semantics. It is all your highest regard, respect or whatever.

No, I don't agree. There isn't anything that warrants my highest regard except my family and a few friends but that is not worship. That is love.

We were talking ideas and the changing of held issues. Not people.

Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1078
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Shirina on Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:04 pm

We were talking ideas and the changing of held issues. Not people.
Yes, it does happen, but it takes time. I think people often believe that people suddenly blink a few times and instantly change their minds. That's not how it usually works. It's a slow, methodical process that can sometimes take weeks, months, or even years. The person who planted the seed of doubt may not even be present to see that seed blossom into a changed mind. This is one reason why I never find debates about religion necessarily futile. One simply never knows if something we may say here will not stick over the long term.

I've seen many people in my life change their minds over the years. I think many were never even consciously aware of having actually changed. It just ... happened. There was no active decision, no pounding the table and saying, "I declare ..." It was a painstakingly slow metamorphosis as if one neuron at a time was taking a new course. I look at my mother as a very good example - her metamorphosis was so slow that I wasn't even aware of the changes until the day she excitedly showed me the new car she was going to buy. It was a style of car completely unlike her, and it was then it hit me.

Throughout my high school years, our relationship could be strained. She was politically conservative, very insular and had no friends outside of the family, and was deeply religious. Then, many years later, it was as if I've awoken to find a different person claiming to be my mother, someone politically liberal, very social, and hovering between atheism and agnosticism. When the hell did that happen? It just creeped up on me, but now our relationship is the best it's ever been.

I have no idea what caused this gradual change. I doubt even she really knows. But something (or many somethings) caused it - a forum post, listening to different views, an internet blog, a news story, a sermon at church, political decisions in Washington. Who really knows? And now her behavior is different, even down to the kinds of cars she buys.

It really does take place. People do change, and the likely cause is other people and the influences they have whether sought or unsought. And that, in a nutshell, is why dropping a post on a forum is never a waste of time.
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Guest on Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:18 pm


This is a personal attack unworthy of an adult man. Given your past immoral posts, a personal attack from you is predictable.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Shirina on Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:55 pm

Just so everyone knows ... there's a lot of SHIT going on in my life at the moment and not one single thing is good. You know what that means? It means that I don't have ANY patience for dumbass insults, snipes, and immaturity. I also have no patience with being thin skinned, either. Wow, wouldn't it be nice if BOTH sides stopped doing what they're doing. "Slowflake?" C'mon .... you're WAY better than that.

Enough said.
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:26 pm

Not everybody is fortunate enough to have three mothers-in-law.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11898
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:33 pm

Shirina wrote:
We were talking ideas and the changing of held issues. Not people.
Yes, it does happen, but it takes time. I think people often believe that people suddenly blink a few times and instantly change their minds. That's not how it usually works. It's a slow, methodical process that can sometimes take weeks, months, or even years. The person who planted the seed of doubt may not even be present to see that seed blossom into a changed mind. This is one reason why I never find debates about religion necessarily futile. One simply never knows if something we may say here will not stick over the long term.

I've seen many people in my life change their minds over the years. I think many were never even consciously aware of having actually changed. It just ... happened. There was no active decision, no pounding the table and saying, "I declare ..." It was a painstakingly slow metamorphosis as if one neuron at a time was taking a new course. I look at my mother as a very good example - her metamorphosis was so slow that I wasn't even aware of the changes until the day she excitedly showed me the new car she was going to buy. It was a style of car completely unlike her, and it was then it hit me.

Throughout my high school years, our relationship could be strained. She was politically conservative, very insular and had no friends outside of the family, and was deeply religious. Then, many years later, it was as if I've awoken to find a different person claiming to be my mother, someone politically liberal, very social, and hovering between atheism and agnosticism. When the hell did that happen? It just creeped up on me, but now our relationship is the best it's ever been.

I have no idea what caused this gradual change. I doubt even she really knows. But something (or many somethings) caused it - a forum post, listening to different views, an internet blog, a news story, a sermon at church, political decisions in Washington. Who really knows? And now her behavior is different, even down to the kinds of cars she buys.

It really does take place. People do change, and the likely cause is other people and the influences they have whether sought or unsought. And that, in a nutshell, is why dropping a post on a forum is never a waste of time.

I agree that peoples thinking can change. That does not take away from the fact that we are all fundamentally locked into our thinking pattern at any given point in time.

I might say something today that will change your mind next year but you are still fundamentally locked into what you think now.

Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1078
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Shirina on Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:48 pm

That does not take away from the fact that we are all fundamentally locked into our thinking pattern at any given point in time.
Maybe ... maybe not. There's really no way to prove it either way.

We only know what people say, not necessarily what they're thinking - or even how they think.
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:09 pm

Shirina wrote:
That does not take away from the fact that we are all fundamentally locked into our thinking pattern at any given point in time.
Maybe ... maybe not. There's really no way to prove it either way.

We only know what people say, not necessarily what they're thinking - or even how they think.

True but if I am to believe you by your own words, then your words so far recognize that what I say has some truth.

All you need do is think of your own thinking patterns and you cannot deny what I have said. You have already basically confirmed it with what you said of the subconscious.

From what you said above, something registered in your subconscious and you will agree completely if I ask you that same type of question in a year or two.

I will settle for your indecision for now as you are bright enough to know that this point is mine and it is always hard to just say, I have changed my mind. I think it is a pride thing as that is what it is with me. I hate to admit a mistake or being wrong about anything.

I am lucky I have something to counteract that pride. I love to learn and most new learning for me is having one of my ideas or beliefs destroyed. That is mental growth to me.

Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1078
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by polyglide on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:23 pm

Both Shirina and Snowflake just cannot understand that because they are unable to appreciate and evaluate what I say in a ressponsible and intelligent manner does not in any way make less valid what I say it only shows their ignorance.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:40 pm

polyglide wrote:Both Shirina and Snowflake just cannot understand that because they are unable to appreciate and evaluate what I say in a ressponsible and intelligent manner does not in any way make less valid what I say it only shows their ignorance.

That or it is your inability to convey the information in a persuasive way.

Personal attacks are unhelpful in such instances and just show childishness.

Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1078
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by polyglide on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:43 pm

Treat a child as a child.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Shirina on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:53 pm

True but if I am to believe you by your own words, then your words so far recognize that what I say has some truth.

Teehee!

Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I giggle only because of what JUST happened to me. A few days ago on another board, I posted a comment in answer to the old argument that atheism has caused the deaths of tens of millions referencing Stalin as the primary example. My answer is the same one I always give: Stalin did not attack the Russian Orthodox Church because he was an atheist, he did so because he was clinically diagnosed as a paranoid and he did not want the Russian people serving two masters. People should no more condemn atheism because a madman happened to be atheist than I would condemn Christianity if a madman happened to be Christian.

And here's the response I just now received:

"So you don't think Stalin is responsible for all of those religious people he killed? Wow, you're pathetic."

LOL! I giggle because can this person really be truthful with such a reply? If he is, then it has to be the biggest reading comprehension failure I've seen in a very long time. One thing I've noticed in debates, especially, is that people will say just about anything to avoid losing an argument. Some will say utter tripe or be flagrantly illogical or factually incorrect just to keep the debate raging because they've simply run out of ammunition.

However, yes, in many cases, all we have to go on is what people say, and we usually assume that they say what they mean - i.e. the truth as they perceive it.
All you need do is think of your own thinking patterns and you cannot deny what I have said.
I don't deny it carte blanche. I just don't believe it's an idea that can be applied to every situation (such as my example above). Another example would be the things we say in the heat of anger, things that aren't necessarily true or things we really believe, but rather words designed to hurt and wound.

As for myself, well, I'm an odd bird, so to speak. I have a racing mind that never stops. I have to fall a sleep with the television on to distract me from my own thoughts - or I'll lay there for hours with sleep as distant as you are geographically from me. Before I utter a word, whether here or in an actual face-to-face conversation, I consider all the angles and possible arguments, all of the potential rebuttals, and then the refutation to the rebuttals. Then I base what I say on the LOGIC of the premise, not my own personal thinking patterns. I know that would seem to shoot down your theory, but it probably does not. Perhaps my thinking patterns are just highly logical. I have had to adjust my beliefs many, many times in my life so far - everything from my original support of Operation Desert Freedom to whether the "face" on Mars is really a face. Sometimes those revelations are pretty disappointing. After all, I was really hoping that face was a giant statue from a long gone extraterrestrial civilization and not just a trick of light and shadow. Oh well ... but the evidence against my desire was pretty overwhelming so I had to go with that.

What I find frustrating at times are people who so desperately cling to their preconceived ideas - their thinking patterns - that even overwhelming evidence to the contrary does not sway them. This includes beer guzzling drunks who deny being alcoholics to devoutly religious people who staunchly deny evolution to people who STILL think Obama is a Muslim socialist. People whose way of thinking fundamentally denies reality is the big issue for me.

From what you said above, something registered in your subconscious and you will agree completely if I ask you that same type of question in a year or two.
Of course I will say the same thing in a year or two - because the answer is truthful. You even agreed with my statement. Very Happy

I will settle for your indecision for now as you are bright enough to know that this point is mine
Ah, but remember what Kenny Rogers once sang: "You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table." Like I said in my examples above, I don't think your premise is 100% accurate. There are exceptions, so I'll give you half a point.

I think it is a pride thing as that is what it is with me. I hate to admit a mistake or being wrong about anything.
Hmm, agreed. I think we all have egos to bruise. I don't mind being completely off-base with an opinion as long as there's good enough evidence to abandon the opinion. What I hate is being factually wrong. Even a minor flub like getting a date wrong rankles me.

I love to learn and most new learning for me is having one of my ideas or beliefs destroyed. That is mental growth to me.
I love learning, as well, and knowledge for its own sake. So many people don't find value in simply knowing ... but I do. If only I could remember everything I've learned! The only difference between you and I here is that I don't particuarly like having my ideas or beliefs destroyed. Not out of pride, per se, but because developing ideas and then having them smashed doesn't really add to my total sum of knowledge. It's like building a house and then demolishing it - rather than building many houses into a neighborhood into a city into a metropolis. Sure, that doesn't mean that I haven't been forced by evidence and logic to abandon certain opinions and ideas, but that "back to the drawing board" feeling is kind of meh.
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Shirina on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:59 pm

Both Shirina and Snowflake just cannot understand that because they are unable to appreciate and evaluate what I say in a ressponsible and intelligent manner does not in any way make less valid what I say it only shows their ignorance.

What did I just say about sniping, insults, and attacks? What did I just say about my patience for such things?

Yeah, keep poking the dragon, polyglide.
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by polyglide on Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:13 pm

The truth hurts. but if you cannot stand it then refute it in a sensible and articulate manner.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:30 pm

Shirina

We are close in thinking.

Thank all the Gods we are geographically separated. You are too cute and bright for words.

Too bad I am happily married and twice your age.

Your words on how your mind works reminded me of last Xmas when one of my sons received this mind activated games where the player relaxes his mind to less thought to have a ball rise and fall via mind control.

Most here had no problem reducing their brain activity but I had a bitch of a time. We are cursed my dear. But I do not mind my curse.

Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1078
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Shirina on Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:50 pm

Too bad I am happily married and twice your age.
Heh, yeah, I do seem to be the baby of the forum - and by a goodly number of years. Not that I mind, though, since I find "older" (no offense hehe) people to have a calmer mind and a firmer grip than people my own age. You may be twice my age, but at least I wouldn't be jailbait! Very Happy

Most here had no problem reducing their brain activity but I had a bitch of a time.
I had a friend in college who was into meditation. A few times she tried getting me to meditate with her, but it never worked. Some little thought always managed to squeeze through the barriers. I remember sitting and watching a candle flame as a catalyst for meditation. It worked for about 5 minutes until I found myself thinking about why the flame doesn't melt the wax on the wick instantly and then consume the wick - which made me realize I really had no idea how something as simple as a candle worked and ... wait, wasn't I supposed to be meditating? Heh, yeah, it is kind of a curse, one with two very keen edges.
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:01 pm

I hear you.

I wish I had the calm mind you speak of. I am a WIP on that one. I have a hard time reducing my bias and my un-calm emotion puts me " in the face" of many that I speak against.

I am pleased you are not jailbait and also pleased you do not live nearby; although at this point in my life, I would likely seek you out more for your mind than for your ever so sweet looking exterior attributes.

Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1078
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Shirina on Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:25 pm

I would likely seek you out more for your mind than for your ever so sweet looking exterior attributes.

Well, honestly, I would prefer that.

Just remember, though, you're married. Very Happy
avatar
Shirina
Former Administrator

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Right behind you. Boo!

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by snowyflake on Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:56 pm

Both Shirina and Snowflake just cannot understand that because they are unable to appreciate and evaluate what I say in a ressponsible and intelligent manner does not in any way make less valid what I say it only shows their ignorance

Polyglide, you're not saying anything. You tell me that I'm wrong without any coherent argument to back up your assertion. I offer you truckloads of evidence that Big Bang is our most satisfactory answer to date and that Evolution is a fact and the most we get back from you is, 'No. It's not'. It's like debating Michael Palin in the Argument Room for crying out loud. If you want to convince people that your thinking is correct and ours is wrong then you have to provide evidence. Evidence is crucial. You haven't done that. Not once.

I think the reason you haven't done that is because you really don't know what you are talking about when it comes to science. You will never make a decent argument if you don't know the subject matter and that means studying, at least a little bit, the very basics of the theories and what evidence there is that holds them up. If you're getting your knowledge from a Creationists website you're on a non-starter. You need unbiased information that presents the facts that have been gathered using proven scientific methods. Unless you do that, you might as well bow out because you cannot hold your own with this crowd.

If you have to resort to name-calling and denigrating the other person, you've already lost, my friend.
avatar
snowyflake

Posts : 1217
Join date : 2011-10-07
Age : 59
Location : England

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by snowyflake on Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:56 pm

I would likely seek you out more for your mind than for your ever so sweet looking exterior attributes.

where's the vomit icon when you want one?

Smile
avatar
snowyflake

Posts : 1217
Join date : 2011-10-07
Age : 59
Location : England

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:38 pm

Shirina wrote:
I would likely seek you out more for your mind than for your ever so sweet looking exterior attributes.

Well, honestly, I would prefer that.

Just remember, though, you're married. Very Happy

Grrrrr. Yes.

Grudgingly happily married the odd time but that feeling does not last and I would not change a thing in my life.

Regards
DL

avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1078
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:58 pm

snowyflake wrote:
I would likely seek you out more for your mind than for your ever so sweet looking exterior attributes.

where's the vomit icon when you want one?

Smile

I admit to being out of practice and am rather poor at the non-serious type of give and take. Mine was alway serious.
I was quite good at it before finding my wife though.

Sounding a bit klutzy and tongue tied bodes well for my having discarded my onece good and successful style.
I don't really feel comfortable doing it now a days but have enough respect for Shirina's mind to try to show her that I have a bit of humor and fun left in my too often serious mind.

I think my wife would like the idea that the smooth talker of the past is taking his vows serious and trips on his own tongue when I now let it wag.

Shirina.
I don't usually have a chance to think of my WIP in improving my loving family character but you make me say -------------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzlpTRNIAvc

----- because I am becoming the husband I always wanted to be.

Regards
DL
avatar
Greatest I am

Posts : 1078
Join date : 2012-04-25

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:47 pm

Make that two vomit icons when you locate it, please.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11898
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by polyglide on Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:16 pm

You are Snowyflake just like Shirina, an internet user who is unable to think for themselves and just quote others I

You talk absolute nonsense, do I have to study medicine to know if someone is dead? do I have to have a degree in histyory to know the date of the Battle of Hastings?etc; etc;

I deal in comman sense.

I have asked you to give me an example of the manner in which a butterfly evolved.

I have requested information regarding the Big Bang.

None of any sense forthcoming.

Just a load of information you have gleaned from those who you agree with and totally ignore those who disagree.

I take no notice of either I consider what I can see and what I have experienced over many years and there is no sounder basis for anyone's opinions,

You can ask me to quote on any matter under the sun and I can come up with a load of information that I do not understand and that you would not either, I think for myself and do not rely on the thoughts of others most of whom have an axe of their own to grind.
avatar
polyglide

Posts : 3118
Join date : 2012-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: To hate Jews is to hate God

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 6 of 24 Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7 ... 15 ... 24  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum