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Female human rights in Moslem cultures

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Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:24 pm


Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Responding here to this “thread” title (in “links”), these two phrases, “female human rights” and “Muslim cultures” are in many instances mutually exclusive.

Context: The most populous “Muslim” nation, Indonesia, in its key document affirms its creation and status as a non-Muslim nation. Perhaps that’s why Indonesia seems not a breeding ground for Islamafascist terrorist murderers.

In stark contrast, “Muslim” nations like Iran and Saudi Arabia intentionally deny unalienable human rights to females. The intentional tolerance of this female-enslaving culture in Western nations, carried out under the guise of “multiculturalism”, sows seeds for the destruction of these nations’ democracies from within. To tolerate evil is to support evil, whether that evil be “secular”, “religious”, or “cultural.”

Snowyflake is “on it”, committed to doing all she knows how to do to break the chains of slavery which allow Muslim women in “Muslim” nations to be raped, tortured, hacked into pieces, executed by hit squads on the streets (a common taliban action), tortured, imprisoned in their own homes and in state-supported prisons, stoned to death, and subjected to other nearly unspeakable and unconscionable acts of state-endorsed violence.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:43 pm

It is common for things which are not properly understood to be condemned. Perhaps a quick study of the People under discussion would be a useful preliminary to informed debate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:31 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
It is common for things which are not properly understood to be condemned.  Perhaps a quick study of the People under discussion would be a useful preliminary to informed debate.

A “quick discussion” does not rescue Muslim women facing violence right now.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:46 pm

Wow! What's the right name for a Christian Jihad?

Did you know that Muslims think that our habit of keeping dogs as domestic pets is indescribably filthy? They are totally repelled by the idea.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by Shirina on Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:04 pm

Did you know that Muslims think that our habit of keeping dogs as domestic pets is indescribably filthy?
Perhaps this is because some Muslim societies keep women as domestic pets instead.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:29 am

oftenwrong wrote:
Wow!  What's the right name for a Christian Jihad?

Wow! What pertinence does “the right name for a Christian Jihad” have to the quest by Muslim women to “break the shackles” of female-enslaving “Muslim” cultures, which allow Muslim women to be raped, tortured, hacked into pieces, executed by hit squads on the streets, imprisoned in their own homes and in state-supported hell holes, stoned to death, and mutilated, maimed, and murdered by other unconscionable acts of state-endorsed brutality?
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:45 am

oftenwrong wrote:
Wow!  What's the right name for a Christian Jihad?

Did you know that Muslims think that our habit of keeping dogs as domestic pets is indescribably filthy?  They are totally repelled by the idea.
Shirina wrote:
Did you know that Muslims think that our habit of keeping dogs as domestic pets is indescribably filthy?
Perhaps this is because some Muslim societies keep women as domestic pets instead.

Perhaps this is also because some “Muslim” societies beat the holy crap out of their domestic pet women if ever these domestic pet Homo sapiens females forget their rightful places. In the US or UK, beating the holy crap out of one’s disobedient domestic pet dog is animal cruelty, a felony crime. In Saudi Arabia, beating the holy crap out of one’s disobedient domestic pet Homo sapiens female is expected and applauded.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:43 am

oftenwrong wrote:
It is common for things which are not properly understood to be condemned.  Perhaps a quick study of the People under discussion would be a useful preliminary to informed debate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim

I prefer a detailed study of the Muslim females under discussion based upon information accessed via the links provided below.

Ivan wrote:
Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by Ivan on Thu 6 Jul 2012 - 16:29

I’m posting these links to two charities at the request of Snowyflake, one of our members:-

Violence is Not our Culture (VNC): http://www.violenceisnotourculture.org/

Equality Now: http://www.equalitynow.org/

Both organisations exist to educate people about the human rights of women and girls living in Moslem countries, and to take action against abuses against women and girls in these cultures. This includes writing letters and emails to governments to stop stoning women for sexual 'crimes', female genital mutilation, physical and sexual abuse and rape victims being criminalised.

There is a real campaign by Moslem women to change the culture from inside, and to educate the men and ruling figures in those cultures that women and girls have a meaningful role in life and have value in their own right.

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t579-female-human-rights-in-moslem-cultures
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:24 am

In the USA there are 1.3 million reported incidents of domestic violence annually.

http://www.ncadv.org/files/DomesticViolenceFactSheet(National).pdf

Charity begins at Home
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by Phil Hornby on Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:33 am

I have tried to persuade Mrs Hornby to walk several paces behind me when I allow her to accompany me on a day out, but she seems to have this notion that she is an equal and, indeed, asserted this to me most recently when I was washing up the dishes after dinner last night...
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by tlttf on Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:12 am

The BBC went to Afghanistan to find out how the women were coping with the concept of equality. The reportre was shocked to find they still walked several paces behind the men. When she asked why it was still happening the one word reply was "Landmines".

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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:17 am

oftenwrong wrote:
In the USA there are 1.3 million reported incidents of domestic violence annually.

Eight pertinent facts:


  1. In the USA there are 0.0 million reported state-sanctioned rapes of Muslim women annually.


  2. In the USA there are 0.0 million reported state-sanctioned tortures of Muslim women annually.


  3. In the USA there are 0.0 million reported state-sanctioned hackings of Muslim women annually.


  4. In the USA there are 0.0 million reported state-sanctioned executions of Muslim women by hit squads on the streets annually.


  5. In the USA there are 0.0 million reported state-sanctioned stonings to death of Muslim women annually.


  6. In the USA there are 0.0 million reported state-sanctioned maimings of Muslim women annually.


  7. In the USA there are 0.0 million reported state-sanctioned mutilations of Muslim women annually.


  8. In the USA there are 0.0 million reported state-sanctioned murders of Muslim women annually.


 
 
oftenwrong wrote:
Charity begins at Home

Three pertinent questions:


  1. Who issued this command?


  2. By what authority has she/he issued this command?


  3. By what law am I bound to obey this command?



Timely answers to these three pertinent questions will be appreciated.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:53 am

One of the people most referenced as the author of this quote is Sir Thomas Browne, an English physician, writer and theologian:


“But how shall we expect charity towards others, when we are uncharitable to ourselves? ‘Charity begins at home,’ is the voice of the world;” – Sir Thomas Browne, 1642

It was also said by other famous writers and theologians:


“‘Charity should begin at himself.” – John Wycliffe 1383


“Charity begins at home, and justice begins next door.” – Charles Dickens, 1844


It has no more legal effect than, "Be good to your mother", but has a similar validity.

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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:59 am

RockOnBrother wrote:
oftenwrong wrote:
Charity begins at Home
Three pertinent questions:

  1. Who issued this command?


  2. By what authority has she/he issued this command?


  3. By what law am I bound to obey this command?


Timely answers to these three pertinent questions will be appreciated.
oftenwrong wrote:
One of the people most referenced as the author of this quote is Sir Thomas Browne, an English physician, writer and theologian:


“But how shall we expect charity towards others, when we are uncharitable to ourselves? ‘Charity begins at home,’ is the voice of the world;” – Sir Thomas Browne, 1642

It was also said by other famous writers and theologians:


“‘Charity should begin at himself.” – John Wycliffe 1383


“Charity begins at home, and justice begins next door.” – Charles Dickens, 1844


It has no more legal effect than, "Be good to your mother", but has a similar validity.


Three pertinent facts:


  1. You have failed to identify any person that issued this command.


  2. You have failed to identify by what authority any person has issued this command.


  3. You have failed to identify a law that  compels me to obey this command.



This vapid (in my opinion) saying holds no validity with me.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:29 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
oftenwrong wrote:
In the USA there are 1.3 million reported incidents of domestic violence annually.

Eight pertinent facts:

  1. In the USA there are 0.0 million reported state-sanctioned rapes of Muslim women annually.

  2. In the USA there are 0.0 million reported state-sanctioned tortures of Muslim women annually.

  3. In the USA there are 0.0 million reported state-sanctioned hackings of Muslim women annually.

  4. In the USA there are 0.0 million reported state-sanctioned executions of Muslim women by hit squads on the streets annually.

  5. In the USA there are 0.0 million reported state-sanctioned stonings to death of Muslim women annually.

  6. In the USA there are 0.0 million reported state-sanctioned maimings of Muslim women annually.

  7. In the USA there are 0.0 million reported state-sanctioned mutilations of Muslim women annually.

  8. In the USA there are 0.0 million reported state-sanctioned murders of Muslim women annually.


oftenwrong wrote:
Charity begins at Home

Three pertinent questions:

  1. Who issued this command?

  2. By what authority has she/he issued this command?

  3. By what law am I bound to obey this command?

Timely answers to these three pertinent questions will be appreciated.

As regards US Law, absence of legislation does not infer either support or rejection of a proposition.

Incorrect use of the word "command" which is, in the context above, a Noun, not an imperative, whilst
the expression Charity begins at home is neither a Command nor an imperative.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by Shirina on Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:31 pm

In the USA there are 1.3 million reported incidents of domestic violence annually.
The difference here, OW, is that the United States has laws against domestic violence, and you WILL go to jail if convicted. The government does not sentence women to 40 lashes or a beheading if they are caught in public with a man who is not her immediate relative. Take the case of an elderly woman who had milk delivered to her door every day by a male second cousin. This horrible crime was discovered and this old woman was thrown in prison for it.

Now, in any country, there will be men who beat their wives, but that is an individual choice, not a governmental or religious mandate. In America, women can vote, drive cars, walk around with their hair uncovered, hold jobs, serve in the military, go to college, and are protected by strict (sometimes TOO strict) laws regarding their treatment. In North Carolina, there is a law against assault ... but there is also a separate law in regards to a male hitting a female. The latter carries a stiffer penalty than the former. A male being charged with "assault against a female" will still be in jail when the other assault convicts are set free.

I really don't believe much in moral relativism. I do believe there are certain moral absolutes including murder, torture, involuntary captivity (kidnapping), rape, and pedophilia to name a few. Those acts should be universally condemned by ALL cultures regardless of custom, tradition, or religion. Should we begin to accept such wanton acts of cruelty and oppression as simply the way another culture does things, then we would be hard pressed to condemn even such travesties as the Holocaust without falling into depraved hypocrisy.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:48 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
Incorrect use of the word "command" which is, in the context above, a Noun, not an imperative, whilst
the expression Charity begins at home is neither a Command nor an imperative.

Your grammar lesson conclusively affirms the non-imperative nature of the insipid, inappropriate saying (“Charity begins at Home”) first posted hereon by you on Friday 6 July 2012 at 9:24 and defended hereon by you on Friday 6 July 2012 at 10:53.

Now that you have negated any explicit or implicit imperativeness of your offering, perhaps you will consider using your well-honed communicative skills to publicize heinous crimes routinely perpetrated upon Muslim women by Muslim males.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:49 pm


Taliban publicly execute woman near Kabul to cheers of jubilation from watching men

By Hamid Shalizi and Amie Ferris-Rotman

KABUL – Saturday, 7 July 2012, 7:04 PM BST

KABUL (Reuters) - A man Afghan officials say is a member of the Taliban shot dead a woman accused of adultery in front of a crowd near Kabul, a video obtained by Reuters showed, a sign that the austere Islamist group dictates law even near the Afghan capital.

In the three-minute video, a turban-clad man approaches a woman kneeling in the dirt and shoots her five times at close range with an automatic rifle, to cheers of jubilation from the 150 or so men watching in a village in Parwan province.

"Allah warns us not to get close to adultery because it's the wrong way," another man says as the shooter gets closer to the woman. "It is the order of Allah that she be executed".

… [this public punishment] raised concern about the treatment of Afghan women 11 years into the NATO-led war against Taliban insurgents.

When the unnamed woman, most of her body tightly wrapped in a shawl, fell sideways after being shot several times in the head, the spectators chanted: "Long live the Afghan mujahideen! (Islamist fighters)", a name the Taliban use for themselves.

Full Reuters story: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/07/07/us-afghanistan-taliban-woman-idUKBRE8660C320120707

Video: Taliban publicly execute woman near Kabul
http://www.youtube.com/v/vCV61MYdRj8
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Citizens of the United Kingdom (British citizens): The problem is at your doorstep; taliban run rampant in Pakistan, your former colony, and Pakistani nationals import this heinous behavior into your island nation with explicit and implicit approval of those who, on the flimsy premises of “multi-culturalism” and “cultural tolerance”, would excuse immorality.

Fellow citizens of the United States: If we continue to hide our heads, this immorality will be upon us “directly.”
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by astra on Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:48 pm

RoB, British Soldiers in Ulster HAD to read a little yellow card with instructions if they could return fire!
http://britains-smallwars.com/Museum/NI/Cards_Ni.html
All the 'colours' are here, it is the YELLOW ONE you want!


Soldiers in Afghanistan are there with their weapons and their hands tied behind their backs! For God's sakes, some cannot wear protective head ware lest they "look too agressive"

The problems are all political
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by Shirina on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:45 pm

This is the kind of crap that got the US in trouble in Vietnam. You can't fight and win a political war where the rules of engagement are decided upon by faceless bureaucrats in a cubicle back in Washington or London.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:45 pm

QUOTE Alexander Pope's An essay on criticism, 1709:


Such shameless Bards we have; and yet 'tis true,
There are as mad, abandon'd Criticks too.
The Bookful Blockhead, ignorantly read,
With Loads of Learned Lumber in his Head,
With his own Tongue still edifies his Ears,
And always List'ning to Himself appears.
All Books he reads, and all he reads assails,
From Dryden's Fables down to Durfey's Tales.
With him, most Authors steal their Works, or buy;
Garth did not write his own Dispensary.
Name a new Play, and he's the Poet's Friend,
Nay show'd his Faults - but when wou'd Poets mend?
No Place so Sacred from such Fops is barr'd,
Nor is Paul's Church more safe than Paul's Church-yard:
Nay, fly to Altars; there they'll talk you dead;
For Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:49 am

RockOnBrother wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by RockOnBrother on Mon 9 Jul 2012 - 17:48

Your grammar lesson conclusively affirms the non-imperative nature of the insipid, inappropriate saying (“Charity begins at Home”) first posted hereon by you on Friday 6 July 2012 at 9:24 and defended hereon by you on Friday 6 July 2012 at 10:53.

Now that you have negated any explicit or implicit imperativeness of your offering, perhaps you will consider using your well-honed communicative skills to publicize heinous crimes routinely perpetrated upon Muslim women by Muslim males.
oftenwrong wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by oftenwrong on Mon 9 Jul 2012 - 23:45

QUOTE Alexander Pope's An essay on criticism, 1709:


Such shameless Bards we have; and yet 'tis true,
There are as mad, abandon'd Criticks too.
The Bookful Blockhead, ignorantly read,
With Loads of Learned Lumber in his Head,
With his own Tongue still edifies his Ears,
And always List'ning to Himself appears.
All Books he reads, and all he reads assails,
From Dryden's Fables down to Durfey's Tales.
With him, most Authors steal their Works, or buy;
Garth did not write his own Dispensary.
Name a new Play, and he's the Poet's Friend,
Nay show'd his Faults - but when wou'd Poets mend?
No Place so Sacred from such Fops is barr'd,
Nor is Paul's Church more safe than Paul's Church-yard:
Nay, fly to Altars; there they'll talk you dead;
For Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread.

“… perhaps you will consider using your well-honed communicative skills to publicize heinous crimes routinely perpetrated upon Muslim women by Muslim males.”

Or perhaps not.


Last edited by RockOnBrother on Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:00 am

astra wrote:
RoB,  British Soldiers in Ulster HAD to read a little yellow card with instructions if they could return fire!
http://britains-smallwars.com/Museum/NI/Cards_Ni.html
All the 'colours' are here, it is the YELLOW ONE you want!

I assume Scotch sipping, cigar smoking “suits” in London made up this stuff.

astra wrote:
Soldiers in Afghanistan are there with their weapons and their hands tied behind their backs! For God's sakes, some cannot wear protective head ware lest they "look too agressive"

Meanwhile, a taliban beast rapes, tortures, and slams nine rounds into the brain of a woman. And all the men say, “Well done!” Real brave bastards, aren’t they?

Shirina wrote:
This is the kind of crap that got the US in trouble in Vietnam. You can't fight and win a political war where the rules of engagement are decided upon by faceless bureaucrats in a cubicle back in Washington or London.
astra wrote:
The problems are all political

Suits usually lack morality.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:24 am

Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Every time this type of discussion is promoted, the same short quotation from The Holy Bible pops into my tiny mind.

"When they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." John 8:7"

A modern version makes it even clearer:

Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do similar things.

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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by Phil Hornby on Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:02 pm

Damn. Rumbled again..... Embarassed
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:53 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by RockOnBrother on Mon 9 Jul 2012 - 17:48

… perhaps you will consider using your well-honed communicative skills to publicize heinous crimes routinely perpetrated upon Muslim women by Muslim males.
oftenwrong wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by oftenwrong on Mon 9 Jul 2012 - 23:45

QUOTE Alexander Pope's An essay on criticism, 1709…
RockOnBrother wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by RockOnBrother on Tue 10 July 2012 - 0:49

“… perhaps you will consider using your well-honed communicative skills to publicize heinous crimes routinely perpetrated upon Muslim women by Muslim males.”

Or perhaps not.
oftenwrong wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by oftenwrong on Tue 10 July 2012 - 10:24

Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Every time this type of discussion is promoted, the same short quotation from The Holy Bible pops into my tiny mind.

"When they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."  John 8:7"

A modern version makes it even clearer:

Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do similar things.

“… perhaps you will consider using your well-honed communicative skills to publicize heinous crimes routinely perpetrated upon Muslim women by Muslim males.”

Once again, perhaps not.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:56 pm

Is there an echo in here?
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:55 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by RockOnBrother on Mon 9 Jul 2012 - 17:48

… perhaps you will consider using your well-honed communicative skills to publicize heinous crimes routinely perpetrated upon Muslim women by Muslim males.
oftenwrong wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by oftenwrong on Mon 9 Jul 2012 - 23:45

QUOTE Alexander Pope's An essay on criticism, 1709…
RockOnBrother wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by RockOnBrother on Tue 10 July 2012 - 0:49

“… perhaps you will consider using your well-honed communicative skills to publicize heinous crimes routinely perpetrated upon Muslim women by Muslim males.”

Or perhaps not.
oftenwrong wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by oftenwrong on Tue 10 July 2012 - 10:24

Female human rights in Moslem cultures…
RockOnBrother wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by RockOnBrother on Tue 10 July 2012 - 13:53

“… perhaps you will consider using your well-honed communicative skills to publicize heinous crimes routinely perpetrated upon Muslim women by Muslim males.”

Once again, perhaps not.
oftenwrong wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by oftenwrong on Tue 10 July 2012 - 16:56

Is there an echo in here?

Your repeated failure to use your well-honed communicative skills to publicize heinous crimes routinely perpetrated upon Muslim women by Muslim males provides compelling evidence of your disinclination to do so, thus, in my opinion, providing conclusive evidence that you feel no compassion for vulnerable Muslim women who are raped, tortured, maimed, and murdered by Muslim males in Muslim nations.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:45 pm

Compassion? Of course. We hardly need more examples of Man's inhumanity.

But responsibility? None.

It's not for me to dictate how others should behave. It was that bullying tendency of the United States to zap anyone of independent thought which caused the outrage of 9/11. A lesson not yet fully assimilated.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by Shirina on Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:59 pm

It's not for me to dictate how others should behave. It was that bullying tendency of the United States to zap anyone of independent thought which caused the outrage of 9/11. A lesson not yet fully assimilated.

Perhaps, for some, one has to be female to understand why these atrocities committed by the radical Muslims can be so upsetting?

Often Wrong, here are a few things to consider.

First of all, murder is murder. It is universally condemned regardless of culture or national origin. That girl was most assuredly murdered, ergo, it matters not what national border divides us. We can and should condemn it. This is not about the United States or being American. It is about being human, one and all.

Secondly, there have been enough Brits on this board critical of some American states still using the death penalty. IF what you say is true, then you have no more right to judge Americans than Americans have to judge Muslims. IF "it is not for [you] to dictate how others should behave," then you should not only never again criticize the death penalty in other countries, you should also remind your British friends that it is inappropriate to complain about American domestic policy whenever an American state carries out an execution. Except you haven't done this which suggests to me that there is an ulterior motive behind your posts in this thread.

Thirdly, your logic is dangerous and apathetic. If one lived by your ideology, I would be required to turn a blind eye to any type of abuse, atrocity, or injustice by wrapping myself in that warm blanket of "it's not any of my business." Whether I see my neighbor abusing his/her child, whether I see a burglar breaking into a home, whether I see a nation committing ethnic cleansing, whether I see a second Holocaust, I would have to turn my back since it's just not up to me to dictate how others should behave.

Fourthly, in the case of this girl, not only is it murder, it is targeted murder. In other words, this was not an execution for a crime in the traditional sense. It is a method of terror that targets women specifically. Did you happen to notice the absence of the man with whom she had her affair? I certainly did. And this happens repeatedly, the criminalization of femininity. Now maybe that doesn't mean a damn to you, but it certainly does to me.

Fifthly, Rock and I are individuals. We are not governments. As such, we have the right to our opinions which means we also have the right to condemn the actions of others - including these radical Muslims. We are not ambassadors and we are not spokespeople for the United States. Whatever our government does is irrelevant to our personal opinions regarding the issue of misogynistic death sentences.

Sixthly, the so-called "bullying" of the United States has absolutely nothing to do with what happened to that girl. If the United States didn't even exist, that girl would still be lying dead, her body riddled with bullets. Why? Because their culture and their religion demands that women - not men - women be put to death for such things as adultery or wearing the wrong clothes or falling in love with the wrong person. America's foreign policy does not dictate the actions of these barbarians; this girl's execution was not a revenge attack for Western imperialism. It was upholding what I regard to be a sick and twisted homicidal culture where female life is cheaper than the dirt she was buried in - assuming she was even afforded a burial.

Now, perhaps your posts are designed to get up Rock's nose, I don't know. But I find your backhanded defense of this execution to be distasteful, and I'm sure the survivors 9/11 and the families of the victims would find it equally distasteful. Anyone who defends the wanton, indiscriminate killing of civilians regardless of who commits it, needs to see a shrink, as far as I'm concerned. Defending the execution of this girl, no matter how indirectly, is almost as heinous as the murder itself.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:29 pm

wanton, indiscriminate killing of civilians regardless of who commits it vide COLLATERAL DAMAGE

Do as you would be done by. That covers most differences of custom. How can anyone stand in judgment of people whose actions are incomprehensible? In the animal kingdom there is abundant evidence of disgusting and unacceptable (by our standards) dining habits. So are we to take Arms against carniverous animals?
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by Shirina on Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:40 am

How can anyone stand in judgment of people whose actions are incomprehensible?
Because we are all human and that means we are not so different from each other. I would argue that the majority of us - the vast, overwhelming majority - want peaceful lives free of war, of terror, of fear, of oppression, and of tyranny. The problem in places like Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia is that the people in control have all of that. It's the women who do not. Their actions are not necessarily incomprehensible given that even those who inflict terror would not want it inflicted back upon themselves. They know what they're doing and what the results are. They know what they're taking away from those they oppress. And we know that they behave in this fashion because they've been trained to, indoctrinated to, brainwashed to. Only severe and heavy propagandizing allows one to kill with such flagrant disregard for the life he is taking - especially for something as petty as adultery. It is not so difficult to understand. People over there need to be taught that there IS a life beyond barbarity and their culture will not disintegrate should they choose a better solution than killing young girls like cattle at a slaughterhouse.
In the animal kingdom there is abundant evidence of disgusting and unacceptable (by our standards) dining habits.
Animals, to the best of our knowledge, do not have the capability to take a moment's pause and analyze their actions. Animals act on instinct, like a computer program, thus they do what they do because their program tells them to do it. They cannot defy their instincts. We, on the other hand, can. In addition, animals feed to survive. They do not kill each other because a tiger cheated on its spouse or because a dog licked its butt in public. Those people kill not to survive and not because it is instinctual ... they do so because they're mired chin-deep in the worst Islam has to offer. They have been programmed to kill - yet they are still humans, they still feel, and that's what makes it all the more tragic.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:18 am

Many of the current troubles in Africa stem from the religious zeal of Missionaries who flocked to the Dark Continent in the nineteenth century to "convert" the natives to a belief in Chistianity.

Mali Sudan and Nigeria are typical of countries now experienceing wars between Muslim and Convert that have no apparent end.

And there are "western" people stoking the flames. Shame on you.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:10 pm


Shirina,

Extraordinarily well articulated. In your posts of Tuesday, 10 July 2012 at 20:59 and Wednesday, 11 July 2012 at 0:40, you speak my mind, concisely, accurately, and exhaustively.

A few comments and observations “sparked” by your text follow.    

Shirina wrote:
Perhaps, for some, one has to be female to understand why these atrocities committed by the radical Muslims can be so upsetting?

I’m not female. My beloved, my mother, all of my grandmothers (natural and otherwise), all of my aunts, all of my sisters and female cousins, all of my daughters and nieces, are female. Had I seen that video and recognized one of my loved ones as the victim, no force on earth would keep me from tracking down the bastards that bestialized my loved one, if necessary, for the rest on my life, if necessary, alone.

Upsetting? To put it mildly, yes.

Shirina wrote:
… your logic is dangerous and apathetic.

Perhaps you know the piece penned, I believe, by a Lutheran minister regarding the crucial role played by apathetic Germans in the extermination of six million Jews and five million Romanis, Slavs, and other “undesirables” during the Holocaust. It was first brought to my attention back on the MSNBC R&E forum by a South Carolinian gentleman who lived its message.

The text which follows challenges us all.

1624 Meditation 17: For Whom the Bell Tolls (No Man Is an Island) - John Donne

No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
Shirina wrote:
… I find your backhanded defense of this execution to be distasteful… Anyone who defends the wanton, indiscriminate killing of civilians regardless of who commits it, needs to see a shrink, as far as I'm concerned. Defending the execution of this girl, no matter how indirectly, is almost as heinous as the murder itself.

Concise, precise truth.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:32 pm

Where would we be without the Bible-Punchers?
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:35 am


oftenwrong,

You’ve publicly stated this:

oftenwrong wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by oftenwrong on Tue 10 Jul 2012 - 19:45

Compassion?  Of course…

By so stating, you imply, and I correctly infer, that you have compassion for Muslim women who are brutalized by Muslim men in “Muslim culture” (quotes necessary for precise communication) prevails, including the Muslim woman in the Reuters video shot nine times in the head at near-point-blank range by a taliban bastard while assembled Muslim males voiced their approval (click for video).

An examination of all subsequent text posted by you on this thread, reposted below, fails to support your implied assertion. In fact, given the absence of the word “compassion” or any of this word’s synonyms in your subsequent text, and the overall content and tone of your subsequent text, it appears that you have no compassion whatsoever for Muslim women who are brutalized by Muslim men in “Muslim culture”, including the Muslim woman in the Reuters video shot nine times in the head at near-point-blank range by a taliban bastard while assembled Muslim males voiced their approval (click for video).

oftenwrong wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by oftenwrong on Tue 10 Jul 2012 - 19:45

… We hardly need more examples of Man's inhumanity.

But responsibility?  None.

It's not for me to dictate how others should behave.  It was that bullying tendency of the United States  to zap anyone of independent thought which caused the outrage of 9/11.  A lesson not yet fully assimilated.
oftenwrong wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by oftenwrong on Tue 10 Jul 2012 - 22:29

wanton, indiscriminate killing of civilians regardless of who commits it    vide COLLATERAL DAMAGE

Do as you would be done by. That covers most differences of custom.  How can anyone stand in judgment of people whose actions are incomprehensible?  In the animal kingdom there is abundant evidence of disgusting and unacceptable (by our standards) dining habits.  So are we to take Arms against carniverous animals?
oftenwrong wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by oftenwrong on Wed 11 July 2012 - 9:18

Many of the current troubles in Africa stem from the religious zeal of Missionaries who flocked to the Dark Continent in the nineteenth century to "convert" the natives to a belief in Chistianity.

Mali Sudan and Nigeria are typical of countries now experienceing wars between Muslim and Convert that have no apparent end.

And there are "western" people stoking the flames.  Shame on you.
oftenwrong wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by oftenwrong on Wed 11 July 2012 - 19:32

Where would we be without the Bible-Punchers?

Video: Taliban publicly execute woman near Kabul
http://www.youtube.com/v/vCV61MYdRj8
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:30 pm

The Law of England makes female mutilation illegal, with a maximum sentence on conviction of 14 years for persons carrying out or present at, such mutilation.

If any of the over-excited contributors to this debate have evidence of any such occurence in the Country I live in, they should, obviously, inform the Police.

Endless repetitive iteration of personal distaste is unlikely to have much effect beyond the individual complaining.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:37 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by oftenwrong on Tue 10 Jul 2012 It's not for me to dictate how others should behave.- 19:45

It was that bullying tendency of the United States  to zap anyone of independent thought…

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t580-female-human-rights-in-moslem-cultures#23228

The underlined text is a falsehood. The United States does not engage in a “bullying tendency” in order “to zap anyone of independent thought.”

The underlined text is off topic.

RockOnBrother wrote:
Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by RockOnBrother on Thu 5 Jul 2012 - 17:24 (initiating post)


Female human rights in Moslem cultures
… these two phrases, “female human rights” and “Muslim cultures” are in many instances mutually exclusive.

… “Muslim” nations like Iran and Saudi Arabia intentionally deny unalienable human rights to females. The intentional tolerance of this female-enslaving culture in Western nations, carried out under the guise of “multiculturalism”, sows seeds for the destruction of these nations’ democracies from within. To tolerate evil is to support evil, whether that evil be “secular”, “religious”, or “cultural.”

Snowyflake is “on it”, committed to doing all she knows how to do to break the chains of slavery which allow Muslim women in “Muslim” nations to be raped, tortured, hacked into pieces, executed by hit squads on the streets (a common taliban action), tortured, imprisoned in their own homes and in state-supported prisons, stoned to death, and subjected to other nearly unspeakable and unconscionable acts of state-endorsed violence.
RockOnBrother wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by RockOnBrother on Fri 6 Jul 2012 - 6:43
Ivan wrote:
Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by Ivan on Thu 6 Jul 2012 - 16:29

I’m posting these links to two charities at the request of Snowyflake, one of our members:-

Violence is Not our Culture (VNC): http://www.violenceisnotourculture.org/

Equality Now: http://www.equalitynow.org/

Both organisations exist to educate people about the human rights of women and girls living in Moslem countries, and to take action against abuses against women and girls in these cultures. This includes writing letters and emails to governments to stop stoning women for sexual 'crimes', female genital mutilation, physical and sexual abuse and rape victims being criminalised.

There is a real campaign by Moslem women to change the culture from inside, and to educate the men and ruling figures in those cultures that women and girls have a meaningful role in life and have value in their own right.

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t579-female-human-rights-in-moslem-cultures#22997
RockOnBrother wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by RockOnBrother on Mon 9 Jul 2012 - 18:49

Taliban publicly execute woman near Kabul to cheers of jubilation from watching men

By Hamid Shalizi and Amie Ferris-Rotman

KABUL – Saturday, 7 July 2012, 7:04 PM BST

KABUL (Reuters) - A man Afghan officials say is a member of the Taliban shot dead a woman accused of adultery in front of a crowd near Kabul, a video obtained by Reuters showed, a sign that the austere Islamist group dictates law even near the Afghan capital.

In the three-minute video, a turban-clad man approaches a woman kneeling in the dirt and shoots her five times at close range with an automatic rifle, to cheers of jubilation from the 150 or so men watching in a village in Parwan province.

"Allah warns us not to get close to adultery because it's the wrong way," another man says as the shooter gets closer to the woman. "It is the order of Allah that she be executed".

… [this public punishment] raised concern about the treatment of Afghan women 11 years into the NATO-led war against Taliban insurgents.

When the unnamed woman, most of her body tightly wrapped in a shawl, fell sideways after being shot several times in the head, the spectators chanted: "Long live the Afghan mujahideen! (Islamist fighters)", a name the Taliban use for themselves.

Full Reuters story: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/07/07/us-afghanistan-taliban-woman-idUKBRE8660C320120707

Video: Taliban publicly execute woman near Kabul
http://www.youtube.com/v/vCV61MYdRj8
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:53 pm

Racism expresses itself in various guises, some of which are not at all obvious.
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Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures

Post by ROB on Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:17 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
Re: Female human rights in Moslem cultures
by oftenwrong Today at 19:53

Racism expresses itself in various guises, some of which are not at all obvious.1
 

  1. Underlined text is off topic.

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